[SPOILERS] A mindblowing theory! (Sorry, if already posted before)

[Firetempest]

You only need a small amount of void infused parent to generate a culture of void infused infestation.

[Tesseract7777]

I'm not sure the OP entirely thought this through -- there are a lot of holes here. 

 

It also is heavily implied in TWW that the adults in the Zariman turned into crazed void monsters, and the children used their newfound void powers to hunt them down like beasts and kill them. Even if the twisted few were the few parents/crew members (probably one in the same on a colony ship to be honest), who survived this purge somehow, it still wouldn't make sense. 

The warframes use infested flesh, not void powers, its the operators who use the void powers. The parents on the zariman seem to have also been corrupted by the void, as far as TWW tells us. We aren't given any reason to believe that there was a separate infestation that made our parents go mad or even madder, on top of the void affliction. 

Of course I'm not sure we know the proper origin of infestation. Wasn't it designed by Orokin and got out of control? Was it designed before or after Zariman? Did the few remaining adults become void monsters, and the Orokin experimented with their new nano tech to control and super power them for the Tenno to use, and this led to the accidental creation of infestation, or did infestation come well before that? I'm not sure the lore is entirely clear on that issue in the first place. There are just so many things we don't know about the warframes themselves. I think our parents are certainly in our heads somehow, or at least our dad, after going through TWW again to help a friend out on his comp. But are they warframes? I wonder if perhaps there is a connection between them and our parents, and it could be quite direct. 

Scenario, from like the Rhino prime codex entry. Didn't it seem to go crazy, and was calmed by a void demon child, but it seemed implied from the entry that the creation of this creature was an accident. Was Rhino one of the twisted few? An adult from the zariman brought back, and with the new infested virus, turned into a warframe for Tenno to use? Perhaps when the void child was able to calm the warframe, that's when they started the project that led to warframes and infested and so many other unintended consequences. It would make sense. If Rhino was an accident brought back from the zariman, he might be one of their parents, still with some sanity. Perhaps the orokin realized it wasn't just the void, but that connection, that made proper transference easier. 

This would make sense with the idea in TWW that your head was already too full for the queen, and that your parent or someone like that seems to be possessing you. Over time using a warframe that still has some consciousness of its own, your own minds would start to meld together, right? They would start to become like one, because they use transference so much. But because your parent was twisted by the void, there is all this evil inside them, creating the darkness within you. 

I could be entirely off base, but I think this makes a lot of sense, and is kind of the dark direction they are going for. I am sure later warframes that were mass produced were basically adults taken briefly to the void, then brought back and infected with various strains to turn them into specific warframes, etc. Some kind of technocyte virus, it got out of control and creates the infested. Unless I've got the order wrong, this would make a lot of sense. 

It also makes sense when you think about a frame like Inaros. Why would an operator be so concerned with a tiny colony on Phobos, that doesn't make sense? However, if the frame still blends into the operators mind after a while, many of their concerns would be the same. Perhaps Inaros, as a later frame, had volunteers from the colonies (or conscripted) for the project. Otherwise the whole thing with Inaros makes little sense, the zariman children would likely not be from that many scattered ends of the sol system. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

Anything is possible until the creative minds behind the story craft what really is cannon.

We have much given tobus in the lore and story of the game. From Lephan/Phorid saying that we are one of them (which means he is talking to the Frame...not the Tenno) to Helminth calling the Tenno "Void Demon" to Alad V stating that he has seen into a frame and it makes no sense to Tyl and the Queens calljng them worms (which i find funny since the Queens are more wormlike than the frames). 

Hmmm....Void Demons....do the children actually exist or is this the Void creating conduits to become real? Were there children on the ship or did the Void reach out and create them? The Void is something alive as it has not reached out to any places in space or the derelict for its fissures. It always opens into life supported areas. 

As for the room in back....remember our full base is HUGE. As seen innthe derelic, there are tons of sleep chambers holding bodies. These could be the same bodies in the Orbiter that get changed into Warframes. The room in the Helminth room could be where tje armors we find are placed on the body to create and grant the powers to our finished toy. Would explain how Alad V can take frames apart to then give the powers to the Zanuka and the Grinner/Corpus can make Eximus units- take the parts and redesign them for the soldier's to use.

But until DE states what is what and how it is done, keep on thinking and comong up with ideas.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

In Saryn Prime's video and maybe somewhere else (don't remember) didn't Ballas say he built the Warframes or something like that?

[AerinSol]

On 5/23/2017 at 1:12 PM, PrVonTuckIII said:

More likely than not, they're our parents, just for the feelz.

Being eternally hugged by them.

;-;

Sounds like DE.

[Blakrana]

19 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Wasn't it designed by Orokin and got out of control? Was it designed before or after Zariman?

If I understand things correctly, the implication seems to be that Infestation took Earth; this forced humanity into the system, whilst individuals such as Silvanna researched ways to try and restore Earth to what it was.

I think this would put the Infestation as the first aspect in the build up to the Orokin Empire: without earth, humanity would have need something to keep it together in those rough early stages.

Not concrete admittedly, but it's how things seem to line up for now.

19 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Didn't it seem to go crazy, and was calmed by a void demon child, but it seemed implied from the entry that the creation of this creature was an accident.

The creature was part of a separate project that Davis lured toward the Zariman 10-0 survivors to test if Transference could be used to control it.

The existence of that creature was quite deliberate, the initial discussion of the RPC's Narrator noting how they'd been working on multiple such creatures.

You're correct to assess that this is what led to the Warframe Project, or, as Davis put it 'Big fat promotions'

19 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Over time using a warframe that still has some consciousness of its own, your own minds would start to meld together, right? They would start to become like one, because they use transference so much. But because your parent was twisted by the void, there is all this evil inside them, creating the darkness within you.

Except that'd functionally only be able to apply to your Starter Warframe, and even that's a push as it's not necessarily the case we'd have always employed just one particular frame throughout.

And it's a bit premature to state the Void is 'evil'; it may not gel nicely with humans, but it may just be its nature. And the Tenno had to fight and kill their parents to survive before the Warframes existed whatsoever, so it may just be themselves if they don't exercise restraint...indeed, it may be something that led to the formation of the Five Paths.

19 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Why would an operator be so concerned with a tiny colony on Phobos, that doesn't make sense?

Consider the possibility those colonist's children were being taken for use as Yuvan sacrifices, and the possibility that it reminded that Operator every so slightly of their own experience being used by the Orokin...till it pushed them over the edge to remain complicit in it and they struck out to bring an end to it.

Bonus points in that Ballas' personal area of control is Mars, according to the Crewman Synthesis.

19 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Unless I've got the order wrong, this would make a lot of sense

Infestation exists in a form that could be studied. It was Silvanna's being an expert on infested biology which got her first employed in Margulis' Transference Therapy work, and then transitioned into designing Warframes for Ballas once he took charge.

Whilst the Orokin do employ Technocyte and Infested technology, it seems implied they only do so after having a long amount of time to study the Infested forms that developed.

[redeyedtreefrog]

On 5/24/2017 at 8:15 PM, Rivyn said:

This has me thinking, if this really is the case, maybe DE could incorporate this into future additions to our Operators. Sine 'we' are still the originals, maybe an affinity module could be added that attaches to our 'main' Warframe. We could gain specific bonuses while using said Warframe, and maybe specific customization options would be made available to be used for our Operators that match that chosen Warframe. 

I'd love to see being able to obtain an (entirely optional) memory module for our operators which is basically a voice pack, but set to the personality of a certain warframe. I'm not sure what DE's stance on this would be (DE seemed to be reluctant about making different customization configs for operators, likely because it dilutes the feeling of identity they probably want us to feel to our operators, but at the same time, voice packs do exist, so, who knows?)

I'd love to see my operator adopt oberon's personality...

[Pavelord]

On 2017-5-25 at 4:09 PM, Blakrana said:

Except that'd functionally only be able to apply to your Starter Warframe, and even that's a push as it's not necessarily the case we'd have always employed just one particular frame throughout.

There is a couple points that could give credibility to this notion, not that the parents are spirits inside the frames, but It does seems to appear some entity that peeks through the frames.

One would be the ominous loading screen on its first lines it states "Void link severed-reason foreign carrier detected-origin unknown..." , this hints the idea of some sort of intrusion inside the frame; afterall transference is weaker outside the orbiter; which activates a security that cuts the link with the tenno, preventing the two entities from interacting, I especulate because of the Margulis implant, either way with the link cut the tenno lies sleeping in Lua back then, and ends witha a "good night sweet angel".

Two, coming from Rhino´s entry, the ancestral memory, which is a way of saying that memories are passed genetically. So if indeed there is a unmanifested consiousness within the infested mass of the frame, it stand to reason that it would retain memories from past events due to descendants or clones, likely Proto  Rhinos "brothers" and consequently the infested hive mind, that would impart knowledge to all parts of the hive, all the frames in your arsenal.

[SilvaDreams]

2 hours ago, Pavelord said:

There is a couple points that could give credibility to this notion, not that the parents are spirits inside the frames, but It does seems to appear some entity that peeks through the frames.

One would be the ominous loading screen on its first lines it states "Void link severed-reason foreign carrier detected-origin unknown..." , this hints the idea of some sort of intrusion inside the frame; afterall transference is weaker outside the orbiter; which activates a security that cuts the link with the tenno, preventing the two entities from interacting, I especulate because of the Margulis implant, either way with the link cut the tenno lies sleeping in Lua back then, and ends witha a "good night sweet angel".

Two, coming from Rhino´s entry, the ancestral memory, which is a way of saying that memories are passed genetically. So if indeed there is a unmanifested consiousness within the infested mass of the frame, it stand to reason that it would retain memories from past events due to descendants or clones, likely Proto  Rhinos "brothers" and consequently the infested hive mind, that would impart knowledge to all parts of the hive, all the frames in your arsenal.

Actually there is nothing linking our parents to the Warframes. The link failure is from some sort of interferance, most likely the Stalker stalking us by tracking our transference signal and when detected the system jumps to a different channels.

We hunted down and killed our feral parents on the ship, the voices we hear in TWW are from the mental scars of commiting parricide. Kids are very good at handling trama but that mind warping realm and the act has left some deep rooted demons that after Teshin helped break the walls down Margalis put in place to give us more control and stability are now free to be heard again.

[Blakrana]

4 hours ago, Pavelord said:

One would be the ominous loading screen

Right now, it's still something of a mystery just what the Interference is caused by. Even though it preceded TSD, the fact that the message can still be found suggests something is still up, certainly; if it was purely TSD related, it'd have not been seen much like some of Ordis' lines being hear no longer afterwards.

As for the context of the message, it implies an active tracking signal which...feels a bit weird to attribute to some hypothetical psionic fragment, no?

3 hours ago, Pavelord said:

Two, coming from Rhino´s entry, the ancestral memory, which is a way of saying that memories are passed genetically.

...Which in the context of the passage, is used to imply that the Creature knows what it's been put through along with the other entities before it. It's a big stretch to argue it's not to do with that at all and is instead 'maybe the parents'.

And whilst we know Warframes are Infested derived in some capacity, we do not know as of yet, if they have any form of cohesion or link as part of some hive system. As is, best parallel to the 'hive' that Warframes have is Transference system, arguably. Least, in theory.

As it stands, too little information is available for a clear answer on these grounds.

[Blakrana]

1 hour ago, SilvaDreams said:

Teshin helped break the walls down Margalis put in place to give us more control and stability are now free to be heard again.

Further not helped by the simple urgency of how they had to resolve the Elder's attempted intrusion, than actually unpacking and dealing with everything.

Priority, certainly, but it's unlikely it can be put off forever. Though I am not sure how well that could be addressed considering the framing devices at hand. Excellent Fic fodder though, if nothing else.

[Evanescent]

So you mean like:

Rhino: Dude, I am your father.

?

[SilvaDreams]

53 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

Further not helped by the simple urgency of how they had to resolve the Elder's attempted intrusion, than actually unpacking and dealing with everything.

Priority, certainly, but it's unlikely it can be put off forever. Though I am not sure how well that could be addressed considering the framing devices at hand. Excellent Fic fodder though, if nothing else.

Well considering Margalis had to put those mental blocks in place I'm not sure how well we could learn to cope with it. I mean we're already warped by the void and that can't be good for one's mental health and our forced parricide lumped on top, that is quite a mountain of perverbial crap.

Though I suppose with the time as operators (even if unknowingly) and just time itself we have become a good bit more stable and balanced so those deep rooted demons may not be quite so... Vicious? But still something that is going to need to be dealt with I agree specially as we're no longer cold killing machines but well... Human.

Edited May 27, 2017 by SilvaDreams
Holy Veyhek I hate auto correct at times...

[Blakrana]

27 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Well considering Margalis had to put those mental blocks in place I'm not sure how well we could learn to cope with it. I mean we're already warped by the void and that can't be good for one's mental health and our forced parricide lumped on top, that is quite a mountain of perverbial crap.

Quite. I'm certainly willing to posit the psychological locks Margulis employed were deemed a necessary part of Transference therapy. After all, it's clear that the Void abilities are tied firmly into the ordeals of Zariman regardless of what they, the Tenno, may or may not have individually done with them. Seeing as the Void also seems strongly implied to affect and function on psionic levels, it thus becomes a 2 bird, 1 stone issue for Margulis: Sealing the memories limits the connected Void abilities, thus easing the difficulty working with the Tenno and thus, attempting to treat and heal them.

It may well be that the intention was to gradually diminish those locks as they got more control over their limited Void abilities; after all, considering how heavily stressed it is that the Tenno were unable to control their abilities, how they couldn't stop the 'outbursts' and the like...the sheer level of absolute control they demonstrate in TSD and on seems to suggest, at least to me, that Margulis' Transference therapy is ultimately successful.

Just that the method grossly deviated from what she wanted, per Orokin messing it all up.

35 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Though I suppose with the time as operators (even if unknowingly) and just time itself we have become a good bit more stable and balanced so those deep rooted demons may not be quite so... Vicious? But still something that is going to need to be dealt with I agree specially as we're no longer cold killing machines but well... Human.

Time certainly seems plausible. As noted above, for all the 'uncontrollable and dangerous'...the Tenno have shown only one instance of a lack of control of their power, and that's because the Elder Queen deliberately attacked one mentally, in the fundamental sore spot that is Zariman. Which leads me to wonder if how they just process events and push forward is a kind of compartmentalising; yes, they're complex and heavy moments in their life, but dealing with them in the present would mean they'd cease to have a life to do so.

In the short term, it's a survival strategy. In the long term, it's very dangerous. Though I somewhat doubt that trying to find a suitable psychiatrist is an option for them...again likely leading to the method the Tenno employed ever since Zariman; sticking together and supporting each other because the only people who can understand exactly what they're contending with, are themselves.

Everyone else, be it Lotus, Teshin or the Queens, even the Orokin themselves...they knew of what happened, what they had to do in some form. But by not actually being there, living it...that's a kind of necessary reference point that complicates any work to try and help in that regard. Which I think only goes to show just how impressive Margulis' feats were in that regard.

Either way, apologies for going on. Largely conjecture and theory at present, after all.

[Pavelord]

8 hours ago, Blakrana said:

Right now, it's still something of a mystery just what the Interference is caused by. Even though it preceded TSD, the fact that the message can still be found suggests something is still up, certainly; if it was purely TSD related, it'd have not been seen much like some of Ordis' lines being hear no longer afterwards.

As for the context of the message, it implies an active tracking signal which...feels a bit weird to attribute to some hypothetical psionic fragment, no?

Certainly, this was very especulatory, though as I mentioned in the first paragraph, I meant not the parents, hinting more at the infested mass inside the frame, that could likely be connected to Helminth.

8 hours ago, Blakrana said:

...Which in the context of the passage, is used to imply that the Creature knows what it's been put through along with the other entities before it. It's a big stretch to argue it's not to do with that at all and is instead 'maybe the parents'.

And whilst we know Warframes are Infested derived in some capacity, we do not know as of yet, if they have any form of cohesion or link as part of some hive system. As is, best parallel to the 'hive' that Warframes have is Transference system, arguably. Least, in theory.

As it stands, too little information is available for a clear answer on these grounds.

As for this one, Ancestral memory is a very specific term, to just throw senselessly, in psychology it is known as genetic memory, though scientifically it is more relatable to instincts, in fiction it is use to imply that certain memories can be recorded on a genetic level, even from cloned material (examples: origin of "Superman´s" Doomsday, Oblivion and Assasin Creeds series), which could argueably be what Davis´partner refers when he mentions that he crafted and rejected countless like it.

From the recount of Ontella, we gather that he has an empathic link with her sister, as she is assimilated so is her ability, so much that Ontella feels the presence of Remballa coming from differen directions, and at some point starts to feel the pain of the infested creatures himself.

We also have one of Mutalist Alad V´s quotes-

 "You see Tenno, my new flesh comes with new desire. This Infestation and I, we are one. I want what it wants. And it wants- what I want. Together, we will crawl across the bountiful flesh of this system. Join us."

[Blakrana]

13 hours ago, Pavelord said:

From the recount of Ontella, we gather that he has an empathic link with her sister, as she is assimilated so is her ability, so much that Ontella feels the presence of Remballa coming from differen directions, and at some point starts to feel the pain of the infested creatures himself.

Ontella is female.

As for the presence that entry seems to imply that the Infestation seems to retain some aspect of its victim's particular 'essence'. Personally I'm inclined to suspect it may be psionic in nature but that's a bit of a jump all told.

Nor is it clear if Warframes have a similar trait; even if they're Infested, they're heavily designed and modified artificial constructs with a particular function to fulfil. We need more Warframe related information in order to see how far the parallels really go...though this is assuming I'm understanding where you're going with this one at the moment. Thematic segue, but still feels like one.

As for Alad V...I'm willing to argue that's part of the insidious nature of the Infection if it doesn't instantly mutate someone into a combat form; it makes the victim feel normal, or safe, or correct, in what the process is making them feel. As it goes on, he does show greater difficulty referring to himself in the first person too. Not the best sleeper agent, but it could be how you could have carriers until the victim reaches a modest population centre. Again though, theorising.