Plot twist

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

Corrupted vor is the good guy, the orokins are the good guys. The sentients are deemed bad by the orokin. The lotus and her syndicate cronies are just a terrorist group and you are brainwashed by them. You later on in the questline are rescued by tenshin and try to avenge the orokin and maybe help the stalker who is brainwashed just as you are.

Thoughts on this?

[Miser_able]

What about the codex entries, operator memories, and the silver Grove? None of these are told to us by Lotus but point out the Orokins evil. 

[Voltage]

[aligatorno]

1. That would be clichee AF. 

2. There's a lot of evidence to eliminate that possibility. 

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

The lotus is the one to put us to sleep so its plausible for her to tamper with her memories. Ordis is broken and he could be easily hacked.

Tenno being superpowered beings burdened with saving the entire universe is played out too, and avenging the orokin gives us a better sense of purpose instead of following the lotus 

[Omnipower]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

The lotus is the one to put us to sleep so its plausible for her to tamper with her memories. Ordis is broken and he could be easily hacked.

Tenno being superpowered beings burdened with saving the entire universe is played out too, and avenging the orokin gives us a better sense of purpose instead of following the lotus 

Lol wat...avenging the orokin? XD

Sorry i must of misread that considering the lore is we pretty much obliterated the orokin(99% of them) ourselves during some weird ceremony or celebration in our supposed repulsion of the sentients during the war.

PS to add on lotus is neither good nor evil she is only trying to protect her children(tenno) since she cant have any of her own. Also she is trying to actually give us purpose as without the orokin we would be no different than the grineer or a bunch of mercenaries(which can be argued that we are anyways). Or we would just be exploited again for some factions end goal whether it was the syndicates or the corpus or the grineer or some random alcove of ppl that manage to silver tongue us into their cause/benefit.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Omnipower

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

Just now, Omnipower said:

Lol wat...avenging the orokin? XD

Sorry i must of misread that considering the lore is we pretty much obliterated the orokin(99% of them) ourselves during some weird ceremony or celebration in our supposed repulsion of the sentients during the war.

Yeah we supposedly turned on the orokin by a fllip of a switch/ command by the sentients. Then the lotus saw us as her children and then "saved us" and put us in the cryopods for later use.

[Omnipower]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

Yeah we supposedly turned on the orokin by a fllip of a switch/ command by the sentients. Then the lotus saw us as her children and then "saved us" and put us in the cryopods for later use.

Yeah see the thing is NO ONE knows why we did it or if we were even in full control of ourselves at that time. If you played the war within quest you would understand why i said the last part of the previous sentence which pretty much hinting at a hidden person/entity/enemy/ally that no one is aware of right now outside that ending.

Oh forgot to mention that no one but the infested and sentients can really be evil and arguably the grineer.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Omnipower

[Miser_able]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

Yeah we supposedly turned on the orokin by a fllip of a switch/ command by the sentients. Then the lotus saw us as her children and then "saved us" and put us in the cryopods for later use.

No. We turned on them because we finally had someone to lead us. 

[Imaru]

Occam's razor: the simplest solution is the most likely to be true. Thus, it is easier to believe what we have been given than your suggestion, because it is a much simpler possibility. 

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

From wiki "During the mission, the Sentient speaks to the Lotus, whom he refers to as his daughter, accusing her of betrayal. Through the conversation, it is revealed that Lotus herself was a Sentient, who had infiltrated the ranks of the Orokin to become the Tenno's handler.

Once the player accomplishes the mission, the Lotus further clarifies the nature of her betrayal: she was supposed to destroy the Tenno, but did not. She explains that Sentients become incapable of breeding upon arrival at the Origin system, with Teshin realizing that the Lotus desired children of her own, to which the Lotus affirms that she has become the Tenno's 'mother'."

I havent played the natah quest in like 2 years but im sure in the dialogue they say something about the lotus having a trigger that made the tenno turn on the orokin.

[Miser_able]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

From wiki "During the mission, the Sentient speaks to the Lotus, whom he refers to as his daughter, accusing her of betrayal. Through the conversation, it is revealed that Lotus herself was a Sentient, who had infiltrated the ranks of the Orokin to become the Tenno's handler.

Once the player accomplishes the mission, the Lotus further clarifies the nature of her betrayal: she was supposed to destroy the Tenno, but did not. She explains that Sentients become incapable of breeding upon arrival at the Origin system, with Teshin realizing that the Lotus desired children of her own, to which the Lotus affirms that she has become the Tenno's 'mother'."

I havent played the natah quest in like 2 years but im sure in the dialogue they say something about the lotus having a trigger that made the tenno turn on the orokin.

Nope. Nowhere did they mention a trigger. 

[Blakrana]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

Corrupted vor is the good guy

As yet, Narratively a non-entity. Mostly just a pest in the deeper Void towers for now.

25 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

orokins are the good guys

If we go back to before we have more than the vagueness of the Orokin and their accomplishments to go off of, most could argue it.

Problem is, as we've moved forwards we've learned quite a share of Orokin traits and practices that are severely past ethical acceptability.

• Grineer: A genetically modified brand of human stock, designated purely as menial labour and expendable. Slaves, essentially.
   
• Infested: At some point, somehow the Orokin lost Earth to the Infested, to the extent that they'd later make efforts to terraform it to restore it in some manner.
   
• Systemic control: The Solar Rail Network was locked to the genetic code of the Executors. This made them a fundamental linchpin of Origin's Infrastructure and summarily meant that their absence would leave every planet isolated for an unclear length of time.
   
• Continuity: This practice took children from varying corners of the system, paraded them not unlike a slave auction and the unlucky chosen would then literally be mentally tormented so that the Orokin could transfer their own consciousness into this now hollow young body.
   
• Corrupted: Whatever they are, the Corrupted were employed as military units in some form within the Towers, and seeing as they lack any autonomy or identity being slaved to the Neural Sentry...not encouraging.
   
• Cephalon-isation: A double edge sword. On the one hand, this allowed them to circumvent the dangers of AI by having the uploaded (albeit modified) minds of humans who could volunteer for the process, such as Suda. On the other hand, this allowed them to upload an individual, edit their entire personality and essentially set them in a loop of remembering and forgetting as a form of perpetual punishment, as is the case of Ordis. Sure. Ordan Karris did attempt to assassinate the Executors...but considering he's gone through this cycle countless times...it takes a certain deliberate cruelty to devise a punishment that can outlast the judge.
   
• Absolutist standard: Failure of the Orokin, in particular the Executors, your punishment was likely to be killed, executed or worse. Opposing the Orokin will, meanwhile, is most assuredly going to get you executed...if you're lucky. See above.
   
• An overarching lack of restraint: The Orokin suffered heavily from hubris and this is their greatest sin; their treatment and abuse of the Grineer led to their eventual rebellion when the Old War weakened the power structures, they are heavily implied to be responsible for creating the Sentients in the first place, and are similarly involved with the Tenno and Warframe Projects...a Project that cannibalised an explicitly therapeutic technology to make these new weapon platforms feasible to deploy and employ.

Meanwhile, the Cephalon Fragment concerning the Orokin seems to be...convinced they were some kind of enlightened, advanced society. Maybe on the outside, it looked great...but as we've seen in Synthesis entries, quests, Cephalon Fragments and the like...The Orokin were corrupt, seemingly willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to further their own ends, and laugh about it at that. Certainly begs the question of Propoganda, when there's only two accounts that seem to paint the Orokin positively.

And of course, this is without going into the increasing implications that Warframes were for Black ops use on undesirables within Origin first, and Anti-Sentient weapons only when war broke out; as it stands, we've evidence to suggest, but not enough to be concrete.

58 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

The lotus and her syndicate cronies

Syndicates are civilian outfits striving to affect things on their own terms. They may differ on approach and aims, but they all want something different than the current mess Origin is in with the Corpus and Grineer crushing everything that isn't them underfoot.

59 minutes ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

tenshin and try to avenge the orokin

Seeing as Teshin is practically chomping at the bit to kill a surviving Orokin in TWW, pretty dubious.

Much as Teshin seems to have notable respect for the culture they created maybe...he's not exactly clear cut on how truly loyal he is to the actual Orokin as individuals if given the opportunity. Bear in mind Dax were bound to service through a Kuva based "Geas" for want of a better term.

Could we get some glimpses of good things during the Orokin era? Sure. Balance wouldn't go amiss...but I suspect that decency will be found in the lower echelons, such as the Archimedians or the Lorists, those individuals explicitly bred to serve as healers, or perhaps succour provided by a Dax soldier without express orders not to help the common folk (seeing as Teshin himself seems to abuse explicit orders to get away with what he does). One way or another, it'd be actions outside of the inner circle that would add depth, as all the civilian lives of every world were just...tools and means for the Orokin.

And in general, dropping the binary good/evil view of affairs helps. Everyone finds a way to justify their conduct, and it's the disputes on methods, aims and reasoning that creates conflict and, with any luck, the potential for growth.

One way or another, apologies for going on, as always.

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

We crossed the gap, wombs in ruin, to bring an end to this. We severed the worlds, let them destroy me, why is the sequence not complete?

There are gaps. I had my mission and I completed it. All but the last sequence

gonna find a quote where she says she commands us to turn on them

[BornWithTeeth]

I blame far too many cartoons and video games for relying on the bloody stupid "Hurr durr the mentor character is secretly weeeeevil and you've been led to do the bad! Now you must do the good!"

 

It means that when players are confronted with a video game mentor character who is deeply flawed but not actually bad, they can't handle it and default to insisting that the Empire was correct to destroy Alderaan.

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 hour ago, Omnipower said:

Lol wat...avenging the orokin? XD

Sorry i must of misread that considering the lore is we pretty much obliterated the orokin(99% of them) ourselves during some weird ceremony or celebration in our supposed repulsion of the sentients during the war.

PS to add on lotus is neither good nor evil she is only trying to protect her children(tenno) since she cant have any of her own. Also she is trying to actually give us purpose as without the orokin we would be no different than the grineer or a bunch of mercenaries(which can be argued that we are anyways). Or we would just be exploited again for some factions end goal whether it was the syndicates or the corpus or the grineer or some random alcove of ppl that manage to silver tongue us into their cause/benefit.

I think at least a few of the Orokin are still alive. The Queens are Orokin after all. I think we're going to encounter Ballas in the next quest. 

[kyori]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

Yeah we supposedly turned on the orokin by a fllip of a switch/ command by the sentients. Then the lotus saw us as her children and then "saved us" and put us in the cryopods for later use.

Star Wars order 66... or something like that? lol

[folklore504]

Should be mentioned that the Orokin are at least partially responsible for unleashing the infested in an indiscriminate manner to try and fight the sentients.  As mentioned above there is ample evidence of the Orokin elites using body swapping on unwilling subjects to stay alive.  Teshin is another product of the Orokin genetic experiments, and is physically incapable of disobeying who ever has his control orb thing.  Most problems in the current warframe time can be traced back to their shenanigans. 

[AlphaPHENIX]

I still don't like the Lotus and would prefer to be on Stalker's side, did so from the start, but this is not gona happen.

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sack_shot01 said:

From wiki "During the mission, the Sentient speaks to the Lotus, whom he refers to as his daughter, accusing her of betrayal. Through the conversation, it is revealed that Lotus herself was a Sentient, who had infiltrated the ranks of the Orokin to become the Tenno's handler.

Once the player accomplishes the mission, the Lotus further clarifies the nature of her betrayal: she was supposed to destroy the Tenno, but did not. She explains that Sentients become incapable of breeding upon arrival at the Origin system, with Teshin realizing that the Lotus desired children of her own, to which the Lotus affirms that she has become the Tenno's 'mother'."

I havent played the natah quest in like 2 years but im sure in the dialogue they say something about the lotus having a trigger that made the tenno turn on the orokin.

Maybe she helped them formulate the plan and when the time came during the ceremony said "Tenno, now is the time to strike, eliminate the Orokin Emperors and then exfiltrate immediately!". 

But there is no evidence she had some "switch", don't know where you got that as I have read all the lore. Wouldn't be surprised if she was giving them transmissions though and guiding them, just as she's always done.  

I just re-read all the dialogue from the Natah quest and there is no quote even close to resembling what you are saying about a "switch". In fact, the day the Tenno killed the Orokin Emperors is never even brought up in that quest. Are you sure you were even thinking of the Natah quest?

Edited June 5, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[Blakrana]

4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

In fact, the day the Tenno killed the Orokin Emperors is never even brought up in that quest.

As of the moment the only Quest to discuss "The Day" albeit in passing is Octavia's Anthem...and that's solely down to Hunhow taunting us about whether we remembered the Naga Drums, which only comes up in Stalker's Codex before hand. At least makes me wonder if Hunhow was in some way privy to the plan in some manner, considering that's some specific information to dredge up.

Far as we know at the moment, the plan was deliberately set so that on the 9th Drum beat, the Tenno would kill the Emperors. Beyond that...hands are in the proverbial air on the rest of the detailing.

[Crashen]

What you suggest isnt a plot twist. It has no foreshadowing or storytelling to it. It is just a meaningless "what if" scenario.

I also cant fathom how one would side with Stalker. What, you don your black and red edgelord colors.... and then commit seppuku?

[Omnipower]

5 hours ago, Blakrana said:

As of the moment the only Quest to discuss "The Day" albeit in passing is Octavia's Anthem...and that's solely down to Hunhow taunting us about whether we remembered the Naga Drums, which only comes up in Stalker's Codex before hand. At least makes me wonder if Hunhow was in some way privy to the plan in some manner, considering that's some specific information to dredge up.

Far as we know at the moment, the plan was deliberately set so that on the 9th Drum beat, the Tenno would kill the Emperors. Beyond that...hands are in the proverbial air on the rest of the detailing.

With that i can pretty much formulate what happened if we went genocidal on the 9th beat maybe it was altered to mess with our transference(like the easter egg loading screen mentioning the interference)  which many ppl seem to know how to do lately grineer, corpus and so on. Either way sooner or later its gonna be a race to who can find the correct transference to own the tenno and then the solar system. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

too much of a predictable U-turn IMO. the best stories are ones where nothing is black and white, just darker and lighter shades of grey, and nobody is entirely pure of heart, nor totally malicious either. what you must ask yourself is at what point should someone draw the line, and say" this is wrong!" ?

[Blakrana]

2 hours ago, Omnipower said:

With that i can pretty much formulate what happened if we went genocidal on the 9th beat maybe it was altered to mess with our transference(like the easter egg loading screen mentioning the interference)  which many ppl seem to know how to do lately grineer, corpus and so on. Either way sooner or later its gonna be a race to who can find the correct transference to own the tenno and then the solar system. 

Killing the Emperors is a far cry from genocide; more accurately an assassination and/or rout being solely them. After all, due to how much power was vested in this immortal, controlling elite...once that's gone, the immediate aftermath is an immense power vacuum. Between the societal breakdown and the falling apart of the Solar Rail infrastructure, it also isolates and contains each region rather effectively. Add in dissidence that had been brewing long before then and the Empire collapses under its own weight, essentially.

Transference based interference is actually solely in control of the Queens, as of yet. The Corpus have shown no capacity or even awareness of the system, and the Queens are clued in solely due to their Orokin origin. Seeing as TWW also demonstrated how fundamentally impractical Transference based attacks are, it's not as much as a threat as one may think. Whilst Vor's Ascaris came close...he never got to fully receive results from that method, and narrative wise, he only had that one shot and it failed; the damage to his reputation likely limits his resources for another attempt.

And of course...Hijacking the Transference signal at best gives some limited control of a Warframe, perhaps, but would be limited by the volume necessary. If it was possible for Lotus to slave every Warframe to serve her needs when she was fulfilling her objectives as Natah, probably would have. And of course, with how the Warframe combat system is designed around Transference as a form of dependency, it makes alternative control methods increasingly unfeasible.

Then there's the simple lack of interest in the 'we were forced to do it' approach yields. The one big thing the Tenno face hatred and fear over, their killing of the Orokin...it's more interesting for it to be something they chose to do, than being something they were forced to do with no way to act on their own accord. It just becomes another element of how much their lives were strictly controlled since Zariman, to the point they don't even get to begin and end their rebellion on their own terms...it would simply have been forced upon them, which...with the whole thing about Void and Warframes...it's more important to have a moment where a choice is made, to show something different has happened.

Still, there's elements we don't know for sure. I acknowledge that I'm more interested in 'paths chosen' than 'paths dictated' on the matter of "The Day", but that's a personal bias. It's not impossible to make being forced an interesting thing...but it takes work as much anything does.

Any rate, apologies for going on, as always.