This Game is Boring

[AperoBeltaTwo]

12 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Dismissing someone outright because they're optimistic or pessimistic, if anything, is even more damaging to the community than being a part of the "All is garbage" or "All is gold" crowds.

I'm dismissing a faction that never offers any criticism and is just attacking personally anyone who disagrees with the "everything is fine, DE are great, you go play other games" position.. Ofc I would dismiss something like that - there's no thought behind that kind of behaviour. No argument either. It's just toxic people being toxic.

Edited June 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I'm dismissing a faction that never offers any criticism and is just attacking personally anyone who disagrees with the "everything is fine, DE are great, you go play other games" position.. Ofc I would dismiss something like that - there's no thought behind that kind of behaviour. No argument either. It's just toxic people being toxic.

Unless you're researching every commenters post history, you cant claim they're part of a "faction" or not.

And toxicity is subjective. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Unless you're researching every commenters post history, you cant claim they're part of a "faction" or not.

And toxicity is subjective. 

Oh, please.

[OniDax]

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I know what this game looked like 4 years ago and there are people who liked that old Warframe better than what it is now. 
 You know what is an endgame for Bethesda games btw? Modding. They release creation cits to prolonge the longevity of their games in the modding communities and it works spectacularly - on top of games being amazing standalone. That's what considerate devs are supposed to do. Yes, Bethesda games have bugs and issues, but they rely on the gaming communities and people appreciate that. That's why games like Skyrim or Oblivion despite being single-player are still relevant and very much alive after so many years.

 Modding is the only reason a game series like Arma has existed since 2001. I don't think modding is necessary for every game, and it's nearly impossible for online-only games like WF, but some kind of community creation is good. That's why I like Tennogen. Sure, it costs money, but it's a medium for the community to add something to the game.

[MagPrime]

19 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Oh, please.

So you don't put any effort into trying to understand someone's position?

Go read Borris' post, they explain it rather well how someone can be for and against things that DE does.

And yes, toxicity is subjective.the things you find to be toxic, I've found to be common sense and vice versa, I'm sure.

[uAir]

I have already contended before that they can make the ultimate game by combining the gear progression of Warframe with the combat style of Vindictus.

[OniDax]

4 hours ago, Evanescent said:

Well we have a word for your condition and it's called a burnout.

Play something else and take a break. Maybe you'll be feeling it again after a while.

I'm currently playing three games right now: Warframe, Ghost Recon Wildlands, and DCUO. I've been burnt out from all of them at one point or another. When I'm burnt out with one, I go to one of the other two. I'm usually feeling burnout from two of those games: Warframe and DCUO. Even though I feel burnout, and even though I go back to playing these games eventually (mostly because of the customization), they're still ultimately boring, imo, as in, the gameplay is boring. Burnout doesn't change whether or not you think something's boring. Nor is it simply the result of you finding something boring.

To go into more detail, let me explain. Right now, I mainly play both games (Warframe and DCUO) for their customization. Most of the time, I'm just running around a map because my character looks cool. I can do some cool-looking stuff in-game. Eventually, I get bored. Why? Because there just isn't much recurring stuff to do, and the gameplay mechanics are very limited. Eventually, I'll stop playing for a few weeks, but I'll also eventually come back (again, mainly because the character customization is cool). That's burnout. That burnout doesn't change my view that the game is ultimately boring.

I happen to hold that view. I find fun, or rather, make fun, in customizing my warframe and running around trying to look cool and do cool stuff. But I still find Warframe to be boring, specifically because the gameplay, imo, leaves much to be desired. IMO, the animations are sub-par, the environments are sub-par, the gunplay mechanics are sub-par (all compared to the industry leaders, imo). The game is incomplete, with no expressed desire from the devs to actually finish the game (finished doesn't mean no more content, but means individual core features are no longer in need of major changes/reworks, and it means the game is a holistic, organized, structured product). The gameplay experience is bare bones, with little to offer players within each mission. The focus is entirely on loot; seemingly, the purpose for playing is to acquire reward items, not to enjoy the gameplay experience. Ideas for expanding the game are shutdown and criticized by those community members who are resistant to any change (unless DE themselves announce it). In short, I believe the game is ultimately boring because the gameplay is boring; the gameplay is boring because it is extremely limited.

Unlike the OP, this isn't something that I just came to realize after four years of playing. I felt this way after the very first year of the game. Even though I've come back again, and again, and again, I've always thought the gameplay was boring. Customization and melee gameplay are the only things that really keep me coming back. Year after year, I've put up suggestions on how to expand Warframe, how to help it grow, how to move it towards a complete, post-beta, release-ready state. All ignored. Even though I've been burnt out many times and have still come back, my view that the game is boring doesn't come from my being burnt out. It comes from how limited the gameplay experience is.

I don't think Warframe should become a carbon copy of Black Desert Online, or of any MMO/Open-World game. But I do think there are some things that Warframe could benefit from that are present in other games, things like motion-captured and IK-based animations; more weapon customization (attachments and such); open-world-like features such as larger gameplay spaces, more varied/unique environments, and non-combat NPCs to create an immersive player experience; multi-objective PvE missions, with recurring side missions (an open-world-like feature), for a more engaging gameplay experience; multi-objective PvP modes based on the existing PvE modes and set on PvE tilesets; large spaceship gameplay (akin to Battlefront 2's Conquest mode); and an actual start-to-finish story campaign that serves as the main avenue for player progression and the primary means of introducing the game's various features/systems. I believe all of this can enhance and expand Warframe's gameplay without fundamentally changing the game, and I believe these things, along with the existing features of the game, can make Warframe's gameplay more fun and engaging.

Edited June 11, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

59 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

don't think Warframe should become a carbon copy of Black Desert Online, or of any MMO/Open-World game. But I do think there are some things that Warframe could benefit from that are present in other games, things like motion-captured and IK-based animations; more weapon customization (attachments and such); open-world-like features such as larger gameplay spaces, more varied/unique environments, and non-combat NPCs to create an immersive player experience; multi-objective PvE missions, with recurring side missions (an open-world-like feature), for a more engaging gameplay experience; multi-objective PvP modes based on the existing PvE modes and set on PvE tilesets; large spaceship gameplay (akin to Battlefront 2's Conquest mode); and an actual start-to-finish story campaign that serves as the main avenue for player progression and the primary means of introducing the game's various features/systems. I believe al

This^ I absolutely agree 100% , but at the same time these kinds of things do not happen in 4 years...idc who the developers are. It just completely unrealistic and just doesn't happen. Bottom line is we really have no idea what DEs goals are with the future of WF. But I'm sure as hell down for the ride. 

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

This^ I absolutely agree 100% , but at the same time these kinds of things do not happen in 4 years...idc who the developers are. It just completely unrealistic and just doesn't happen. Bottom line is we really have no idea what DEs goals are with the future of WF. But I'm sure as hell down for the ride. 

Well, for starters, I'd like to see motion-captured and IK-based movement animations, in-game non-combat NPCs (civilian humans, not just robotic-looking Grineer), multi-objective/stage PvE missions, and PvE-inspired PvP modes added to the game. I think all of that could be added within a year's time. And I absolutely believe that most of what I suggested could be added within two years, and all of what I've suggested could be added within three years.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

 more weapon customization (attachments and such); open-world-like features such as larger gameplay spaces, more varied/unique environments, and non-combat NPCs to create an immersive player experience; multi-objective PvE missions, with recurring side missions (an open-world-like feature)

This would be incredibly complex in a Warframe type of game, would take much longer than 4 years. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[DatDarkOne]

25 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

I'd like to see motion-captured and IK-based movement animations

That we already have.  :D  True that it's mostly seen in the idle animations.  Not exactly sure about all of the weapon animations though.  

in-game non-combat NPCs would be very cool. 

Multi-objective/stage PvE can be seen in the Kuva Assault mission, but it would be nice to have more and different variations.  Kuva Fortress has so much potential.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

34 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Well, for starters, I'd like to see motion-captured and IK-based movement animations, in-game non-combat NPCs (civilian humans, not just robotic-looking Grineer), multi-objective/stage PvE missions, and PvE-inspired PvP modes added to the game. I think all of that could be added within a year's time. And I absolutely believe that most of what I suggested could be added within two years, and all of what I've suggested could be added within three years.

And even if it only took 3 years at best, that would mean Warframe would be 7 years old. Because right now it's 4 years old. Like I said, that stuff doesn't just happen in 4 years. 

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

On June 9, 2017 at 8:53 AM, JSharpie said:

Subjective title aside, it's time I finally faced the facts. This game, from the start to the end, is the same thing. Shoot, run to extract, shoot, run to extract. There is little variation on anything. Even playing different frames feels the same. Whenever a new or interesting mechanic comes out, it's either a gimmick (Operators), worthless (2/5 focus schools), or non-functional/troll heavy (Limbo, and I really like Limbo). This isn't a slight at the devs, I couldn't have done better and I think they're doing their best. Lets face it though, even attempts at reworks just end up being more of the same. Archwing was the last totally new thing we got and it was awesome, the possibilities were awesome! Supposedly they're working on it, but it flopped. Majorly.

So there lies the crux of the problem. This game is boring. At least for me. I don't think I'm the only one, but if I am, woops. I mean where is the variation in gameplay? Even new powers are functionally the same. Generally there are 5 categories. CC, Buffs, Damage, Utility, and Mobility. That's what our powers generally do. And they're effective, sure, but are they fun? Maybe for the first couple of months of gameplay, but after that? I mean a lot of us have been at this for 2, 3, 4 years! All we do is shoot, or spam E to melee. I mean a lot could be accomplished if just the Melee system was fleshed out, or if the FoV was able to be altered just a bit more! But instead we have grossly powerful weapons where we hit one button and everything dies until the level gets so high we just can't possibly do it anymore. That's not good game design, at least not in my opinion. We need fixed level design. Let me play on beautiful earth with level 100 enemies. Balance our mods and weapons around that. Set a level cap, and balance around it. It'll be hard work, but it'll pay off. Vary  you're enemies. Make parrying do something. Let me open up a melee only enemy for finishers by parrying at the right time. Oh wait, did you guys know we can already do that? It's never apparent, and there is almost no purpose to it. So give us purpose to our mechanics. Make charge attacks work, make channeling worthwhile, make deflection viable, allow varied gameplay instead of this tired meta.

DE, I know you're trying hard, but as a long time fan of the game there are some glaring problems that need to be fixed. I've been ignoring them for awhile assuming better things were on the horizon, but it's important to point this out now. The direction the game is, the direction I think it's going, it isn't fun. Not for me, and I'm willing to bet not for others. 

Take Black Desert Online. I've been playing that game for awhile. That game is more of a grind than this is. It's awful, yet I love that game to bits. The gameplay is fun. Combos are flashy, taming horses is fun, farming, fishing, crafting, it's all there and all interesting. What's stopping Warframe from adding something new? Something varied? Something to do that isn't just a new tool to do the same thing?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and it works out. I hope it's just me that has found this game to be boring. 

There's other stuff to do.. Go make plat, become a merchant, raid, build a clan, build an alliance, if the base game missions aren't doing it for you, explore the more technical sides of the game, yes the game gets repetitive, but it's a free to play 3rd person shooter what exactly were you expecting...

[Eric1738]

Sure. I think it's pretty natural since you palyed this game for such a long time. To some players it inevitably comes to the point where only massive major updates worth their attention, because they have seen it all. A single weapon reinforcement? Ha, that was a pretty standard update 3 years ago, but now it's barely anything to verterans. However, a successful F2P game will always have to balance content between verterans and new comers. I personally think Warframe is doing alright. I have seen a constant inflow of new players and returning players, and most of them feel the game interesting.

[BETAOPTICS]

It is a dilemma of games in general, people simply are able to consume content faster than developers are able to develop new one, and in time the player gets so used to all of it that there is no longer anything new to experience. I had a period like this where I hardly played Warframe at all for several months. But now I am happy playing this game a bit more actively again. I understand your sentiment though, the game is still pretty much the same thing all the time regardless of circumstance and that can be draining on you eventually. This is why I don't min max either in this game, simply because of the added challenge even in normal play and especially in Sorties, and because it opens up the games variability.

Though one particular pet topic of ' boring ' of mine is Warframe abilities which I do think the upcoming Harrow signifies best. There hardly is anything new or innovative about his kit, sure it is a different playstyle but is it engaging, interesting or different enough? There are loads of things that could be done to bring forth entirely new mechanics to the game but many times they are a variation and mix of older ones. That works well for a while, but it does not have endless potential before it becomes readily apparent.

[OniDax]

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

This would be incredibly complex in a Warframe type of game, would take much longer than 4 years. 

Other developers push out features like that within 2-3 years tops. It would not take much longer unless DE just doesn't have the technical skill to do it. I think they do.

 

6 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

That we already have.  :D  True that it's mostly seen in the idle animations.  Not exactly sure about all of the weapon animations though.  

in-game non-combat NPCs would be very cool. 

Multi-objective/stage PvE can be seen in the Kuva Assault mission, but it would be nice to have more and different variations.  Kuva Fortress has so much potential.

The movement animations aren't motion-captured. Who cares about idle animations? They don't affect gameplay at all. I want motion-captured and IK-based movement animations. They have a fancy motion-capture studio now. I'd like to see it used for more than just idle animations and useless cinematic trailers.

 

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

And even if it only took 3 years at best, that would mean Warframe would be 7 years old. Because right now it's 4 years old. Like I said, that stuff doesn't just happen in 4 years. 

Again, others game studios push out features like that in less time. It does happen and it can happen. Warframe is a four year old, alpha-level product (alphas undergo major changes to core features of the game; betas do not; Warframe isn't really a beta). If you're going to use Warframe as an example of what can and can't be done within a certain amount of time, then you're doing something wrong. Most games undergo 2 year development cycles in which they develop their core features. For example, Battlefront 1 did not have weapon attachments. Battlefront 2 will have weapon attachments. 2 years of development by the time it releases in November. It absolutely can be done.

2 hours ago, BETAOPTICS said:

It is a dilemma of games in general, people simply are able to consume content faster than developers are able to develop new one, and in time the player gets so used to all of it that there is no longer anything new to experience. I had a period like this where I hardly played Warframe at all for several months. But now I am happy playing this game a bit more actively again. I understand your sentiment though, the game is still pretty much the same thing all the time regardless of circumstance and that can be draining on you eventually. This is why I don't min max either in this game, simply because of the added challenge even in normal play and especially in Sorties, and because it opens up the games variability.

Though one particular pet topic of ' boring ' of mine is Warframe abilities which I do think the upcoming Harrow signifies best. There hardly is anything new or innovative about his kit, sure it is a different playstyle but is it engaging, interesting or different enough? There are loads of things that could be done to bring forth entirely new mechanics to the game but many times they are a variation and mix of older ones. That works well for a while, but it does not have endless potential before it becomes readily apparent.

The amount of content isn't the issue. This game could have twice the content that it has now, and it will still be boring, imo. Why? Because the core gameplay is boring. There isn't much to it. When you're in a mission, there just isn't much to do, and there's no real replayability value. You can't count on standard XP progression (like most other third person shooters and all AAA shooters) because it's only tied to new content (newly maxed out items). You can't really count on randomly-generated side missions because those don't exist. You can't count on unique interactions with NPCs in the game world, because all enemies aren't unique and there are no non-combat NPCs. You can't count on new features because they're just as limited in scope and unfinished as other existing features. Because they can't count on those things, the only thing WF players count on is new content, because they have nothing else to look forward to, nothing else to engage them

They're like people living in a famine or drought. They consume the only thing they have available (new content) because that's all they have. They can't even conceive of ideas that expand the gameplay because the only thing they know to enjoy is getting more loot.

You know, maybe part of why the community is so resistant to any suggestions to expand the game is because they don't know anything other than a looter, which is solely focused on new content items. Because of that, the very reason they play is just to acquire loot in the game. The focus is on the loot, not on the gameplay. If there's no new content, then they're dissatisfied. As long as there are new items to collect, max out, and discard, they're happy. The object of the game is to collect virtual items, max them out, use them until the next virtual item comes along, discard or lay aside the old item, and pursue the new item. Rinse. Repeat.

So they'll complain when content is released less frequently, because they can't get their new items fast enough. They'll complain when visual reworks such as weapon remodels and tileset remasters are announced, because it doesn't drop a new content item in their inventory. They'll criticize other players who complain of boredom, because for them, the only solution to burn out is to take your time collecting the virtual items, because that's the only point of playing the game, so make it last as long as possible. They'll shutdown any suggestions to expand the scope of Warframe's gameplay, because that expands the reasons for playing the game, and they can't have the goal of collecting loot become less important. They'll decry anyone criticizing the current state of the game, because as long as they're collecting loot, everything's fine. They'll criticize suggestions that point to other non-looter games as being "fun", because the idea of "fun" outside of grinding for virtual items is incompatible with their own view of fun.

Those who do sometimes find the game lacking often only see issue in terms of balancing content releases for veterans and new players, as @Eric1738mentions above. I argue that the real issue is that the gameplay doesn't offer enough in terms of a full, immersive player experience in the game space (on tilesets, during missions), and that a development plan that tries to expand the scope of the gameplay (as other studios have endeavored to do) will help make Warframe a fuller, richer, more immersive, more fun, and, ultimately, more complete game. Of course, those who view the game solely through the lens of collecting, maxing out, and moving on to the next item, will disagree. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Aimop95]

Funny thing is, DE has explicitly expressed the desire to grow Warframe "sideways", in that they want to add more rather than build on what they currently have. And this is pretty obvious with Archwing, Focus system, Syndicates, etc.

The problem is that many of these good ideas aren't fleshed out fully nor refined, thus it gets cast aside or only used for certain things. 

 

I do estimate though that in 3-5 years (if WF somehow is still going strong), they'll have figured out how "wide" they want to be and start adding depth to all these ideas they have. And then Warframe will have reached its potential.

 

Till then we some time to watch Warframe get "wider".

[AperoBeltaTwo]

14 hours ago, MagPrime said:

So you don't put any effort into trying to understand someone's position?

Go read Borris' post, they explain it rather well how someone can be for and against things that DE does.

And yes, toxicity is subjective.the things you find to be toxic, I've found to be common sense and vice versa, I'm sure.

 Sometimes people say things for the sake of saying things. Doesn't mean they convey a message or reason in what they say. They just feel an obligation to say something - and say it without really thinking their points through or having any points of value in the first place. My "Oh, please," - was exactly about that. When people try to engage in a meaningless conversation about definitions and particularities, it's annoying and pointless, and usually derails any real conversations that could be taking place instead. No problem, I'm not without this sin myself. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

Before DE keeps going 'wider' perhaps DE would make a smarter move by actually working on the core of the game and its mechanics? There is so much underused content in this game it is ridiculous. Raids, Kubrows, Augments, 1/3rd of the current Warframes, Archwings, Focus (Save for Zenurik and Naramon) about 90% of all the weapons despite rivens and a damage model 2.0 that could use a full revision.

But we get Harrow. Harrow the priest frame and instead of giving us Harrow they could have fixed: Atlas, Titania, Zephyr, Ash, Hydroid, Wukong, Nyx, Nezha, Mag, any Kubrow/Pet, any of the obsolete Augments, weapon balancing etc etc.

But no DE chooses you ! Harrow !!

Edited June 12, 2017 by (PS4)vrykolacas82

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

On 9.6.2017 at 3:53 PM, JSharpie said:

I mean a lot of us have been at this for 2, 3, 4 years!

To be completely fair, that's 2,3,4 years more than people spend on most games.

Ever consider that maybe you're just done with this game? Maybe move on to something else and let new players have a jab at it...

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, (PS4)HSomDevil said:

To be completely fair, that's 2,3,4 years more than people spend on most games.

All online games reqire time to understand. Doesn't mean all of them are good. You just get trapped and you stay for years. What traps people, you ask? Gamplay? Nope. Effort-reward systems trap people in online games for years. And for Warframe that trap is broken. It's probably a good thing, but I used to enjoy the gameplay for a while and I honestly want the reason to play Warframe back - I don't want to leave it. So please stop with this stupid line we've heard a 1000 times already:

2 hours ago, (PS4)HSomDevil said:

Ever consider that maybe you're just done with this game? Maybe move on to something else and let new players have a jab at it...

Don't try to push us out of the game just because you disagree with us or don't see yet what we see and feel. This is what I call toxicity. Objective toxicity.

Edited June 12, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

32 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)HSomDevil said:

Ever consider that maybe you're just done with this game? Maybe move on to something else and let new players have a jab at it...

Don't try to push us out of the game just because you disagree with us or don't see yet what we see and feel. This is what I call toxicity. Objective toxicity.

Wat? I was asking an honest question. It's been known to happen that people stop playing games they find boring.

If it came off as rude that was not my intention.

[Teloch]

On 09.06.2017 at 4:54 PM, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Yes, the gameplay is boring, because there isn't much to it, honestly. Will that change? Probably not. You want to know why? Because the devs only really care about the end result - the rewards. They've designed the game around getting items, not around gameplay.

The most precise description of the game state and its main problem. The game can't offer any decent gameplay and substitutes it with loot (aka carrot on a stick). Simple greed and completionism, along with the unquenchable desire for new "carrots" drives this game. This design will persist until the day the servers shut down because this is the niche designated to WF by DE, this is how DE steadily earns cash. Well... that's all I have to say on the game.

[CrazyCatLad]

On 6/9/2017 at 9:07 AM, Skaleek said:

I honestly found the game a lot more fun back when i would struggle with rooms of 5-10 enemies and ammo consumption was a legitimate concern. Now even if i go back and strip myself of gear and increase challenge the game is still a horde shooter. The tactical shooter i played 4 years ago is dead and gone.

I'd really love a hardcore mode...

Nothing is nerfed, just enemies do a lot of damage and have normal health (not artificial tank health). They also don't act like fools and swarm you when they're ranged units. They'd set up a frontline and remain in cover.  (No stupid nullifiers or Ancient Healer auras though - those are artificial too)

 

I do miss closed beta warframe (even if it was light on content - now the content in this game is just a cluster-f, workshop included.)

[Valiant]

On 2017-6-9 at 2:07 PM, Skaleek said:

I honestly found the game a lot more fun back when i would struggle with rooms of 5-10 enemies and ammo consumption was a legitimate concern. Now even if i go back and strip myself of gear and increase challenge the game is still a horde shooter. The tactical shooter i played 4 years ago is dead and gone.

Eh, I see where you're coming from with change but I've never considered or seen warframe as tactical shooter.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Naith