This Game is Boring

[Chipputer]

11 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

You don't have to open an enemy up with one kind of attack and finish them with another kind, stuff like that.

Kuva Guardians are exactly this and were whined about, incessantly, upon their release.

[StabbyTentacles]

On 6/10/2017 at 4:25 AM, BLI7Z said:

I wish you all the best, whatever you want to do, wherever you want to go. I'll stay in Warframe as long as it exists, just because I enjoy it's gameplay regardless of rewards and/or balance. And I will embrace any change they want to make, 'cause I respect DE and I trust their decisions. 

And again, if you want civilized and organized questions/answers, be what you expect from the others, starting from the title.

BLI7Z, can I ask? I will embrace any change they want to make. 

Seems a little nonsensical. 1) You're committed to DE. (Which is fine, and of course your choice.) 2) You will embrace anything they (DE) do, even if that means transforming the entire game into sudoku. (Again this is fine, and of course your choice, but...)

[motorfirebox]

2 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Kuva Guardians are exactly this and were whined about, incessantly, upon their release.

I think there's two reasons for the complaints. One, the process of dealing with them is non-intuitive and not very skill-based. It's non-intuitive because there's nothing about void blast that makes it seem like it would stun someone and there's nothing about void dash that makes it seem like it would disarm someone; void blast doesn't stun anyone but these particular enemies, and void dash doesn't disarm anyone but these particular enemies. It's very arbitrary. It's not very skill-based because it's seemingly random whether or not void blast will actually stun them. 

Two, they're the only enemies that have any kind of special procedure to defeat them. The closest any other enemies come is a few bosses who can only be damaged during short windows.

If more enemies had special strategies for defeating them, and the strategies were more intuitive—not even anything as complex as Kuva guardians necessarily, just stuff like snipers shooting from behind cover at power range, or if enemies with frontal shields had narrow slots you could shoot through for extra damage, or large enemies that you have to knock over with leg shots in order to expose their vulnerable points—I think it would work.

The issue is that DE tends to take a very blunt force approach to this stuff. Void blasting/dashing Kuva guardians is the only thing that works at all, they're completely invulnerable otherwise. Bosses with vulnerability phases, you just have to wait around until the phase occurs, you can't do something to force them (like, maybe Vay Hek has statues of himself around the arena, and he only exposes his face to yell at you if you destroy a statue). It's all very on/off. Off,  you wait around for on. On, you do the stuff you normally do until it turns off again.

I mean, if they want to go the operator powers route, why not make it more universal? Why not have void blast work as a momentary stun on any enemy? Why not have void dash work as a disarm against any CC'd/stunned enemy? At least then it would be an extension of existing mechanics, rather than a sudden weird thing that crops up almost randomly.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

On 09.06.2017 at 3:53 PM, JSharpie said:

DE, I know you're trying hard, but as a long time fan of the game there are some glaring problems that need to be fixed. I've been ignoring them for awhile assuming better things were on the horizon, but it's important to point this out now. The direction the game is, the direction I think it's going, it isn't fun. Not for me, and I'm willing to bet not for others. 

*sigh*

 

[Volinus7]

Warframe is boring compilation 

2013 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/131547-warframe-monotone/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/10679-levels-are-so-repetitive/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/74809-warframe-getting-boring-very-quickly-imo/

2014 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/158811-playing-warframe-is-boring/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/248091-game-too-repetitive/

2015

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/442573-warframe-is-getting-boring/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/481779-warframe-is-getting-boring-and-boring-endless-grind/

2016

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/699168-are-you-getting-bored-with-warframe/

2017

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/780500-warframe-is-boring/

Bloated massive amount of bars to be filled is much larger than the actual contents and depth of the game, Warframe did better than most mmo that most bars are constant and overall progression is quite linear rather than exponential even it's carefully concealed this imbalance is still there for someone to see through it.

Gameplay wise the paths that players take are simplified and converge into few viable paths, it's easy to control for DE and easy to access for players but it pushes variety of playstyles out of the picture. Meta these meta those, fodders, redundancies. Taste/standard issues? Maybe... Policy issue? Definitely.

A lot of yelling "where's endgame", if DE would be sincere and reply to these, it will be "how do we monetize it" even before design process. IMO this is simply cash cow stagnation. Addiction machine doesn't need game of the year award duh...

Edited June 11, 2017 by Volinus7

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, Volinus7 said:

Warframe is boring compilation 

2013 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/131547-warframe-monotone/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/10679-levels-are-so-repetitive/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/74809-warframe-getting-boring-very-quickly-imo/

2014 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/158811-playing-warframe-is-boring/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/248091-game-too-repetitive/

2015

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/442573-warframe-is-getting-boring/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/481779-warframe-is-getting-boring-and-boring-endless-grind/

2016

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/699168-are-you-getting-bored-with-warframe/

2017

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/780500-warframe-is-boring/

Bloated massive amount of bars to be filled is much larger than the actual contents and depth of the game, Warframe did better than most mmo that most bars are constant and overall progression is quite linear rather than exponential even it's carefully concealed this imbalance is still there for someone to see through it.

Gameplay wise the paths that players take are simplified and converge into few viable paths, it's easy to control for DE and easy to access for players but it pushes variety of playstyles out of the picture. Meta these meta those, fodders, redundancies. Taste/standard issues? Maybe... Policy issue? Definitely.

 The reason for this is very simple - it's the lack of an in-game effort-reward motivational system. For the most part, to play warframe you have to force yourself to search for "new" things to do. There are people who excel in that - but they don't really need games to have fun themselves. On the other hand, people who need an extrinsic logical motivation to do things and require a satisfactory reward for their effort and time tend to not stay in Warframe for too long. Especially after Void 2.0 extravaganza that turned the core gameplay of Warframe into a parcour simulator to a fixed objective with low-level oneshottable obstacles on the path. Really think about it, After you get through strachart and all the quests you are left with endless and completely unmotivated gear farming - that doesn't even have any utility in the context of the gameplay, cause the only game mode where you could test that gear is Sorties, which are 15 minutes of gameplay locked behind a 24 hour timer wall.
 Seriously, DE, wtf? 

Edited June 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[IceColdHawk]

4 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

*sigh*

 

Yeah you know. He goes to your thread, answering the "Why?" question with: "Because people like to complain." And now look who's here, complaining about the game being boring. What does the pot call the kettle again...?

Edited June 11, 2017 by IceColdHawk
gimme a break

[blackheartstar_pc]

17 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Of course this game gets boring at some point. When the only daily limited "endgame" content that we have (sorties) is more punishing than rewarding.

Only doing public spy sorties... especially Lua spy sorties or maybe public Lua rescues are punishing.

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, blackheartstar_pc said:

Only doing public spy sorties... especially Lua spy sorties or maybe public Lua rescues are punishing.

This isn't what i meant lol.

Since pictures say more than thousand words, this is what i meant by punishing:

Spoiler

(unless it rly consists of 3 very quick missions)

[blackheartstar_pc]

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

This isn't what i meant lol.

I gotchya. Sorry been drinking and misunderstood.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Yeah you know. He goes to your thread, answering the "Why?" question with: "Because people like to complain." And now look who's here, complaining about the game being boring. What does the pot call the kettle again...?

Was the OP of this thread in my thread? Really? I made an effort there to filter "Everything is fine, you're just burned out, go play something else" - kind of comments. But maybe I changed his mind. That's a good thing. 

Oh, you're right. That's funny. But maybe I did indeed change his mind. Or he changed it on his own.

Edited June 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Was the OP of this thread in my thread? Really? I made an effort there to filter "Everything is fine, you're just burned out, go play something else" - kind of comments. But maybe I changed his mind. That's a good thing. 

Oh, you're right. That's funny.

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't see my parents divorce coming either, or my dad kicking me out because his girlfriend didn't like me.

I guess I'm really good at living in denial that everything is fine.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't see my parents divorce coming either, or my dad kicking me out because his girlfriend didn't like me.

I guess I'm really good at living in denial that everything is fine.

It doesn't. I'm just glad you changed your mind. "Everything is fine" mentality never helped anyone anyway. It won't help DE either.

Edited June 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Volinus7]

1 minute ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

It doesn't. I'm just glad you changed your mind. "Everything is fine" mentality never helped anyone anyway.

DE: "Our game is fineeee."

[Voltage]

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't see my parents divorce coming either, or my dad kicking me out because his girlfriend didn't like me.

I guess I'm really good at living in denial that everything is fine.

I am sorry to hear that, but what does this have to do with Warframe? I have had to deal with similar things, but you don't need to depress everyone man :(. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

This kind of threads btw get a ton of views and attention. But appearently it doesn't matter much in the end. I'm sure there was a lot of threads exactly like this one before us. And did it really change anything? I doubt. Honestly, I contained myself in my own thread, but I think it's just the time for warframe to go. Maybe not in a year time exactly, but the processes that started with Void 2.0 will probably be what's gonna kill it in the end. Nobody expects Warframe to last seven years anyway after all.

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I am sorry to hear that, but what does this have to do with Warframe? I have had to deal with similar things, but you don't need to depress everyone man :(. 

 

9 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I guess I'm really good at living in denial that everything is fine.

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

4 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

DE: "Our game is fineeee."

yeah. Did anyone bring up the steam charts in this thread yet?

[artemisfortune]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

yeah. Did anyone bring up the steam charts in this thread yet?

No, but they're not a reliable source of information given that they don't cover people who use the launcher, PS4, Xbox One, and the general poor data grabbed by the chart itself. It just isn't reliable.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Just now, JSharpie said:

No, but they're not a reliable source of information given that they don't cover people who use the launcher, PS4, Xbox One, and the general poor data grabbed by the chart itself. It just isn't reliable.

they also count the people who log in without playing just to clear the daily tribute.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

they also count the people who log in without playing just to clear the daily tribute.

and they don't count people who play with Steam in Offline mode.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

and they don't count people who play with Steam in Offline mode.

Or without steam at all, like me. But that would only support the "everything is fine"-point. Cause "steam charts only show a part of the player base - there's even more who plays without the steam!" - etc.

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Or without steam at all, like me. But that would only support the "everything is fine"-point. Cause "steam charts only show a part of the player base - there's even more who plays without the steam!" - etc.

Not really, with steam charts being a mess, it can't support anything as there is no way to accurately document the amount of regular players, you can only guess.

I wish someone at DE would at least weigh in on this thread.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

10 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I wish someone at DE would at least weigh in on this thread.

There's no way to know. I kept my thread up for a week straight. But I doubt if DE core devs ever bother to read the forums or even play their own game. My previous thread was even more salty than the last one and just got locked.

I just have to admit that forum is here for venting. Not for communication with the devs. I guess its the same in every game.

Edited June 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Iccotak]

On 6/9/2017 at 5:04 AM, DrBorris said:

But nooo, the community has to stomp their feet and say "Archwing sucks, give up on it", ignoring any possibilities for the game mode if DE actually fully invested in it. 

This is a major problem with the community when it come sot any new features that are not fully developed. They tell DE to just stop and focus on the little things, then they complain about the lack of content.

We Need To Keep In Mind
This game was not released as a finished product. 
It launched with the initial funds of the founding packs and then from there they can continue to earn revenue so then they can work on the game.
That leaves many areas in the game incomplete. 
We have an intro and then we are left with no real sense of direction. Because the game as it stands right now is not a complete product and is more of an outline of the project.

They are not a AAA studio so they don't have the resources right now to simply create the whole game within the next two years. Development is going to be slower.

Warframe has a good foundation, hence why so many people like it, now they are working on building from there.
I think that the community needs to really understand that there is not alot to do besides grind because DE still has a considerable amount of ground to cover


That being said I do not think BETA will ever really end.
DE have put themselves into this corner of having to constantly change and evolve to satisfy the player base, while at the same time trying to create the full vision they had in mind.

Personally I would like DE to shift gears and focus on creating a complete product rather than remain in constant development for the next 5 years.
Focus on the meat and bones of a game this scale. I also think that is what this community needs to do as well. 
Things like: 
-Archwing
-Operator/Focus
-Enemy variety to increase combat variety 
-Tile set designs
-Boss fights 
-NPCs
-Story (Main, Side quests, etc.)

We will have to wait for Tenno-Con because they clearly have a lot of things they want to show us but are holding back for now.

NOTE: I have seen DE talk about these things in Dev sessions and Steve's twitch account, but I think these should be in the forefront rather than new toys for the player base

Edited June 11, 2017 by Iccotak