This Game is Boring

[OniDax]

44 minutes ago, OGodKing said:

170 employees is not a small team and having a premium currency takes them out of beta even if they wish to hold on to the tag

No, it doesn't take them out of "beta". Having premium currency does not determine the state of development (alpha, beta, gold/release ready). What determines the state of development is the state of the features within the game. If they're still undergoing major changes, it's an alpha. If core features are complete (no longer undergoing major changes) and stress-testing/server testing and minor tweaks are going on, then it's a beta. If all core features and systems are complete (stable and no longer undergoing major changes), then it's gold/release ready.

Warframe is basically an alpha. Its major features are still undergoing major changes. Some of them are only half-finished (if that). The state of Warframe is much more akin to a game like DayZ, which is an Early Access game and "perpetual" alpha. Warframe was the same way. The devs decided to sell premium content (anything that is only worth premium currency), making money while they were still in development. Essentially, they didn't want to wait until their game was complete to make money off of it, so they skipped the traditional development process in order to make money. Four years later, the game as greatly improved since it's original state, but it's still four years of essentially being an open alpha, with minimal progress made towards the game being complete. Instead, every year, new half-finished features are added to the game, features that don't expand the game or make it more holistic and complete; the game is a perpetual alpha bloated with half-finished content.

Edited June 13, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, OGodKing said:

170 employees is not a small team

Yes, it is. Especially for a game of this scope.

1 hour ago, OGodKing said:

and having a premium currency takes them out of beta even if they wish to hold on to the tag

Not according to the industry definition.

[Lonnehart]

Well, at some point any game becomes boring if you play it long enough.  My advice?  Just step away from it.  Take as long as you need to.  If you didn't truly enjoy the game then you won't come back to it.  

 

At some point I got bored and did exactly this.  Went and played quite a few games afterward.  Some were great, and some I deeply regretted (*coughFIrefallcough*).  Anyways, amazing as most of them were I got bored of them so I started playing old games.  And now I'm back in Warframe and I'm amazed at how much it changed.  Might be a while before I'm bored again...

[TennoPain]

Yes im sad too i tried so many time to make posts about into the future expansions but ppl call me  troll or stuff like that its sad to see so many games getting it right at this point 

: example is ANTHEM and marketing games like (tribes ascend).

[0asu]

6 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

snip

No core changes have been made to this game throughout the 4 years I've been playing it. Characters get ability changes and tune ups; levels and game modes get slight tweaks but the core mechanics have remained the same. Warframe has been out of beta

[0asu]

6 hours ago, Corvid said:

Yes, it is. Especially for a game of this scope.

Not according to the industry definition.

lul

[Sar.K.Asmus]

38 minutes ago, OGodKing said:

No core changes have been made to this game throughout the 4 years I've been playing it. Characters get ability changes and tune ups; levels and game modes get slight tweaks but the core mechanics have remained the same. Warframe has been out of beta

Are you sure about that?

Parkour 1.0 before there was no running on walls the only way to climb on something was to run up stairs (that's why they are still here, noone is using them) or use Super Jump from Excalibur.

Parkour 2.0: DE took their Parkour 1.0 and just threw it out of the window and replaced it with Parkour 2.0 (it was not an addition it was a replacement)

Damage 2.0 (Elemental dmg was not a thing. Puncture dmg ignored armor. That's one of the reason why boltor was so powerful and some other weapons. I'm pretty sure veterans remember Acrid right?).

Melee 2.0

Archwing flight system. They replaced the previous flight system with a new one and some month later gave players an option to use the old system.

Maybe you want to rethink your statement? Or was "i'm playing the game for 4 years now" statement a lie?

EDIT:

OMG i completely forgot about modding. You know that there were skill trees before? You know that there were ability mods before? You know that there was no Forma before? I could go on but i'm too lazy for that.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Sarcasm4Free

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

31 minutes ago, Sarcasm4Free said:

Are you sure about that?

Parkour 1.0 before there was no running on walls the only way to climb on something was to run up stairs (that's why they are still here, noone is using them) or use Super Jump from Excalibur.

Parkour 2.0: DE took their Parkour 1.0 and just threw it out of the window and replaced it with Parkour 2.0 (it was not an addition it was a replacement)

Damage 2.0 (Elemental dmg was not a thing. Puncture dmg ignored armor. That's one of the reason why boltor was so powerful and some other weapons. I'm pretty sure veterans remember Acrid right?).

Melee 2.0

Archwing flight system. They replaced the previous flight system with a new one and some month later gave players an option to use the old system.

Maybe you want to rethink your statement? Or was "i'm playing the game for 4 years now" statement a lie?

EDIT:

OMG i completely forgot about modding. You know that there were skill trees before? You know that there were ability mods before? You know that there was no Forma before? I could go on but i'm too lazy for that.

I wanna quickly fast forward 5 years from now to see what Warframe looks like or if it's even still around?! Or at least know what the devs time lines is and the overall outlook for the game for the foreseeable future. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, OGodKing said:

No core changes have been made to this game throughout the 4 years I've been playing it. Characters get ability changes and tune ups; levels and game modes get slight tweaks but the core mechanics have remained the same. Warframe has been out of beta

So major reworks to major features like the starchart, melee, progression, mods, pvp, damage, archwing, parkour, etc, aren't major changes to core features? Seriously?

Not only that, but given how many systems/features are incomplete - relays (upper area never fully developed), dojos, focus, archwing (very limited mission types), syndicates (a far cry from the badlands/faction wars concept that was proposed), kubrows/kavats, etc - do you really think those don't require major changes?

I say the state of the game is an alpha. That's a hard thing to accept, I know. But that's the state of WF right now, imo. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

51 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

So major reworks to major features like the starchart, melee, progression, mods, pvp, damage, archwing, parkour, etc, aren't major changes to core features? Seriously?

Not only that, but given how many systems/features are incomplete - relays (upper area never fully developed), dojos, focus, archwing (very limited mission types), syndicates (a far cry from the badlands/faction wars concept that was proposed), kubrows/kavats, etc - do you really think those don't require major changes?

I say the state of the game is an alpha. That's a hard thing to accept, I know. But that's the state of WF right now, imo. 

WF is vary much Alpha. Revamping or Refreshing systems does not bring u out of Alpha. Warframe's current formula is Weapons, Skins, Frames, Events and the cycle repeats. And then they decide to rework things that should have been finished. Warframe from my perspective takes a lot of "safe side steps" As tech changes WF will need to evolve and come out of alpha and be as deep as they are wide. And the wider they get the harder it will be to add depth. Imo

Edited June 13, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

WF is vary much Alpha. Revamping or Refreshing systems does not bring u out of Alpha. Warframe's current formula is Weapons, Skins, Frames, Events and the cycle repeats. And then they decide to rework things that should have been finished. Warframe from my perspective takes a lot of "safe side steps" As tech changes WF will need to evolve and come out of alpha and be as deep as they are wide. And the wider they get the harder it will be to add depth. Imo

 

[Hypernaut1]

I don't consider reworks as part of the alpha stage. Development like that would happen even if it was considered a full release. It's just changes based on feedback.

Placeholders and unfinished content is what makes WF beta. 

[OniDax]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't consider reworks as part of the alpha stage. Development like that would happen even if it was considered a full release. It's just changes based on feedback.

Placeholders and unfinished content is what makes WF beta. 

Unfinished content and placeholders are what you'd find in an alpha, not a beta.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Development like that would happen even if it was considered a full release

Correct over the coarse of multiple sequels to a game. (Example: Destiny, Destiny 2) Game company's also adapt and use different gaming engines and evolve as tech evolves. We really don't see that with WF. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Hypernaut1]

16 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Unfinished content and placeholders are what you'd find in an alpha, not a beta.

I'm using the term the devs use. They consider it beta.

In all reality, it's up to the devs to decide what stage their game is in. The could just as easily say it's full released tomorrow. 

I think they hold on to the beta term mainly to let people know that they can and will change things drastically. 

I don't think it's any deeper than that

[Miser_able]

Life is boring. You get up at a specific time, take a shower, brush your teeth, etc. Then you go to work/school all day. You get at home and than spend the time until you go back to sleep with a mixture of exercise, games, eating, or talking. Then you go to bed, wake up, and start over again. 

[OniDax]

5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm using the term the devs use. They consider it beta.

In all reality, it's up to the devs to decide what stage their game is in. The could just as easily say it's full released tomorrow. 

I think they hold on to the beta term mainly to let people know that they can and will change things drastically. 

I don't think it's any deeper than that

I don't think the devs know what a beta is. Sure, they can pretend like all of their features are finished and polished. That doesn't make it true.

[--F--NerevarCM]

8 hours ago, TennoPain said:

Yes im sad too i tried so many time to make posts about into the future expansions but ppl call me  troll or stuff like that its sad to see so many games getting it right at this point 

: example is ANTHEM and marketing games like (tribes ascend).

Do you know why people call you a troll?

Because you said that Destiny and The Division would kill Warframe...

And now you're saying that Anthem is "getting it right" when the only thing we saw was a "The Division" style of scripted gameplay, encounters and weather with fake player trying to make it look real.

You can't be taken seriously.

[Iccotak]

Basically what I am seeing on this forum is that People want a complete product and we are tired of the community focusing on new toys.
We want a Finished Product.
The problem is that DE is focusing so much on perfecting things as they go along and not just creating a finished product.
Almost every artist (game is an art) will tell you is is better to make a product that is  "Finished not Perfect"
You can fix the game after it is finished. That is how games work.
Release a finished product and the release patches, fixes, updates, to improve the game.

The community is focused on all the little stuff.

[TennoPain]

Just now, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Destiny and The Division would kill Warframe

wut i hate destiny and i dont even know what division is lol 

tbh after 4 years perhaps im just burned out or disapointed but thats my opinion i supported universe expansion long ago before first wave of veterans started to leave (some time before archwing) im just sad to see WARFRAME not do its full potential justice.

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I think they hold on to the beta term mainly to let people know that they can and will change things drastically.

It also protects them legally.  If they didn't have the beta tag, it would be too easy for people to try to sue them every time they made/make a change.  Yes, there are people that would do that and it's sad.   

[OniDax]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

It also protects them legally.  If they didn't have the beta tag, it would be too easy for people to try to sue them every time they made/make a change.  Yes, there are people that would do that and it's sad.   

It does not protect them legally. There are no legal protections for being in beta. The EULA, which specifies what DE is allowed to do to the game, has nothing to do with their self-proclaimed beta status. I mean no disrespect, but I think they're just not moving in the direction of completing the game. It's understandably easier to have a half-finished alpha-state product and to make money off of premium currency sales in the mean time, and not understandably limit the final stages of the development to flesh out existing features. It's easier to continually push out new content (thereby sustaining the pre-release playerbase) instead of stopping the development of new content while you completely develop existing features. So, I think that's why the game isn't out of "beta". The only thing the "beta" tag does is that it shields them from justified criticism for not making a complete product.

3 hours ago, Iccotak said:

Basically what I am seeing on this forum is that People want a complete product and we are tired of the community focusing on new toys.
We want a Finished Product.
The problem is that DE is focusing so much on perfecting things as they go along and not just creating a finished product.
Almost every artist (game is an art) will tell you is is better to make a product that is  "Finished not Perfect"
You can fix the game after it is finished. That is how games work.
Release a finished product and the release patches, fixes, updates, to improve the game.

The community is focused on all the little stuff.

Yep. Plus, if DE would plan what they want their completed Warframe to look like (i.e. focus on completing the existing unfinished features, and plan out what core features they want the game to have), then they'll also have a better idea of what they want to include in Warframe and how to tweak it. That plan would include how to tie in story with player progression, meaning that any story would take the player from the start of the game to the end of the core progression of the game. As of now, the story (fragmented among quests) does not do that. The game feels like it's a melting pot of a bunch of different features, without something that ties everything together; most games use story to tie things together. To use an analogy, Warframe's kinda like a house without walls and a roof, and with all the furniture sitting in the unfinished rooms. Warframe needs the rooms (the various core features of the game) to be finished (no longer in need of major reworks), and it needs the walls and roof (story tied to player progression) to tie everything together.

Edited June 13, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n
Clarifying some statements.

[Nekisin]

13 hours ago, Corvid said:

Yes, it is. Especially for a game of this scope.

 

Relative to what?  As someone who recently returned to check out what had changed since 2013, I would be astonished if there were actually that many people working on WF given how little has really changed in 4 years.  Having dealt with game development companies from 15 employees up to 250+, I certainly expected significantly more progress given how long the game has been out but I had assumed that was due to the dev team being significantly smaller than 170 people.  Now if that's total employees, it's a little different.  To put it into perspective, something like Overwatch only has dev team of about 100 who work on the game. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by EternalEntity

[TheMuslimGamerGB]

We need to add puzzleframe to the list.

 

[Volinus7]

170 employees is large by ZUN's standard since Team Shanghai Alice has one person lol.

 

Why it's called a "team" is still a mystery to this day lel.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Volinus7