This Game is Boring

[motorfirebox]

6 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm a fan of mastery paths. I don't like the idea of only certain things providing mastery; having multiple mastery paths still means that only those paths provide mastery. I still think that any gameplay action you take should reward mastery. In other words, there should be one wide path, and that wide path includes nearly all gameplay you can engage in. Most of the things on your stats page (in your in-game profile) should be the actions that reward mastery. That way, just playing the game rewards mastery. That should be the broadest way to gain rank. And then, of course, on top of that, you could have narrower progression trees, like the Syndicate system, that have their own rank structure.

I think I basically agree, I just think that instead of lumping all those things into one big useless number, they should be cut up into a bunch of more specific numbers.

[DatDarkOne]

32 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

I think I basically agree, I just think that instead of lumping all those things into one big useless number, they should be cut up into a bunch of more specific numbers.

How about this.  Let everything contribute to the overall mastery, but have it displayed in separate categories.  For example have a set rank score lvl with a quick breakdown of how it was achieved right below it.  A breakdown of like 3 categories.  Kinda like how profile currently shows our equipment usage.

Just brainstorming the concept.  :D

[OniDax]

13 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

How about this.  Let everything contribute to the overall mastery, but have it displayed in separate categories.  For example have a set rank score lvl with a quick breakdown of how it was achieved right below it.  A breakdown of like 3 categories.  Kinda like how profile currently shows our equipment usage.

Just brainstorming the concept.  :D

This.

[Ventura_Highway]

On 6/9/2017 at 8:09 AM, DrBorris said:

The community doesn't know best, and the community really needs to learn that.

I am still laughing at the back of my mind about the people screaming for raids on the forums.

I tend to think of the community, monetary needs, and the developers as forming some sort of analogue to one's id, superego, and ego. The community has all these desires that want to be met, that the game needs money to run runs counter to a lot of those desires, and the developers are stuck trying to make something enjoyably sustainable in the middle. Sorry if that's not entirely accurate. Didn't go too far into psychology. Anyways, suggestions from the community regarding what works and what doesn't are fine, I think, if they are stated with reason and logic. Screaming things like "Everyone wants you to do this DE why haven't you done it yet??" are something to be frowned upon.

I'm not defending everything they do. I think some of the things that they produce are mildly stupid like a decent chunk of volt's changes, but I will say that I don't think DE is in a rush to drive Warframe into the ground. So, if they do something I think is "bad" there's a fair chance something they see as devs that I don't see as a player, might be part of their reasoning.

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, motorfirebox said:

Well... it's not like MR is a very good indicator of skill anyway. I've played with plenty of MR20+ guys who I had to carry. I'm MR23 and I've never done the Jordas raid. MR doesn't really tell you anything about the player other than how many bars they've managed to fill. Even the more skill-based mastery disciplines I suggested would really only tell you what someone has managed to do once. Honestly, people using MR as an estimator of skill level is one of the reasons I want to get rid of it.

MR should just be a level indicator, like any other game. But if every action now affects MR, then people can't use it to try to indicate your skill. Because it's not a skill indicator. It's not an indicator of how much stuff you've collected. It's just an experience indicator. Plus, lumping all of that into a level number (like most games do) is merely a way to indicate your progress. If you don't have that, then the game is disorganized. A rank structure tied to progression gives the game structure. And Warframe is a game that needs structure. It's already too disorganized as it is with its various features.

Edited June 15, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[motorfirebox]

I don't 

1 hour ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

MR should just be a level indicator, like any other game. But if every action now affects MR, then people can't use it to try to indicate your skill. Because it's not a skill indicator. It's not an indicator of how much stuff you've collected. It's just an experience indicator. Plus, lumping all of that into a level number (like most games do) is merely a way to indicate your progress. If you don't have that, then the game is disorganized. A rank structure tied to progression gives the game structure. And Warframe is a game that needs structure. It's already too disorganized as it is with its various features.

I don't think that, for instance, Focus is disorganized just because there's no overall Focus score. And, I mean, making everything contribute to MR wouldn't solve that problem. People would just spam whatever gets them the most mastery in the shortest amount of time, and guys who earned MR23 by spamming 4 will continue to get recruited over guys who earned MR10 by running perfect Spy missions.

To the extent that Warframe needs structure, I don't think MR is the structure it needs. I don't really see the value of two players being granted the same flat numerical skill indicator for doing completely different things. I think giving a player who does X a reward for doing X, and player Y a reward for doing Y, is a better structure than giving both players reward Z. Giving both players reward Z just incentivizes doing whatever gets you to Z the quickest... which is already one of Warframe's biggest problems, going back to Vivergate (and probably before).

Edited June 15, 2017 by motorfirebox

[OniDax]

7 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

I don't 

I don't think that, for instance, Focus is disorganized just because there's no overall Focus score. And, I mean, making everything contribute to MR wouldn't solve that problem. People would just spam whatever gets them the most mastery in the shortest amount of time, and guys who earned MR23 by spamming 4 will continue to get recruited over guys who earned MR10 by running perfect Spy missions.

To the extent that Warframe needs structure, I don't think MR is the structure it needs. I don't really see the value of two players being granted the same flat numerical skill indicator for doing completely different things. I think giving a player who does X a reward for doing X, and player Y a reward for doing Y, is a better structure than giving both players reward Z. Giving both players reward Z just incentivizes doing whatever gets you to Z the quickest... which is already one of Warframe's biggest problems, going back to Vivergate (and probably before).

You're never going to stop people from being selective in their recruiting. That doesn't justify getting rid of a rank/level system.

[DrBorris]

4 minutes ago, Ventura_Highway said:

I am still laughing at the back of my mind about the people screaming for raids on the forums.

I tend to think of the community, monetary needs, and the developers as forming some sort of analogue to one's id, superego, and ego. The community has all these desires that want to be met, that the game needs money to run runs counter to a lot of those desires, and the developers are stuck trying to make something enjoyably sustainable in the middle. Sorry if that's not entirely accurate. Didn't go too far into psychology. Anyways, suggestions from the community regarding what works and what doesn't are fine, I think, if they are stated with reason and logic. Screaming things like "Everyone wants you to do this DE why haven't you done it yet??" are something to be frowned upon.

I'm not defending everything they do. I think some of the things that they produce are mildly stupid like a decent chunk of volt's changes, but I will say that I don't think DE is in a rush to drive Warframe into the ground. So, if they do something I think is "bad" there's a fair chance something they see as devs that I don't see as a player, might be part of their reasoning.

The problem was not us screaming for raids, it was how we responded when DE asked "What do you wan from Raids?" In a game like this raids make sense, just look at how highly spoken of the Destiny Raids are. However, when DE asked us what we want, we said "Give us puzzles" by a pretty hefty margin.

... what?

In a game about killing thousands of enemies and playing the same content over and over, we asked for something that doesn't have killing and has little to no replay value? Puzzles are not inherently bad I guess, JV does the "puzzle but still engaging" formula considerably better than LoR, but even then there is a lot of sitting and waiting with little payoff (Both Trials have very lackluster final stages)... much fun.

 

Raids could be great content to have and be something you look forward to playing, but for now they are very meh. One big problem is that they can be played daily IMO. No mission that is based heavily on non-combat mechanics will retain its freshness for long. Destiny Raids have a week cool down, and I am sure they would be less highly regarded if players could hard farm them. 

Of course rewards would need to be adjusted, but IMO Trials should be on a 3-7 day cool down. Sorties then should fill the daily high level content that Strikes fill in Destiny (with some reworks to Sorties to make them more challenging/rewarding/engaging though). 

 

I see where you are going with the psychology metaphor, and I agree for the most part. It s not a universal trait that we are an irrational desire, as there are a lot of great ideas, but the majority, unfortunately, aren't. 

 

To me DE's motto is "Two steps forward, one step back". The vast majority of updates in my opinion (Including SotR, which I know there are some people who adamantly disagree) are better. The game always seems in a better place after an update than before. The Volt rework is a great example of that. He is in a better place after the buff, but there were some questionable changes also thrown in there (Damage cap? Why?). Obviously they are not always doing great things, those Eximus changes they proposed awhile ago would have been one of the worst additions to the game even surpassing day one Nullifiers. 

But to be pessimistic, I highly doubt that we are going to get any more reworks along the lines of Parkour 2.0 or Melee 2.0. I am not sure what exactly has changed in the community's attitude since then, because I could never imagine us giving up coptering now if we still had it, but at the end of the day it does not matter what changed, what matters is where we are. Even a Trial 2.0 feels out of reach because so many will join the "Trials suck, don't put any effort into them because they will always suck" crowd (Archwing is in the same place). 

[Culaio]

12 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Well... it's not like MR is a very good indicator of skill anyway. I've played with plenty of MR20+ guys who I had to carry. I'm MR23 and I've never done the Jordas raid. MR doesn't really tell you anything about the player other than how many bars they've managed to fill. Even the more skill-based mastery disciplines I suggested would really only tell you what someone has managed to do once. Honestly, people using MR as an estimator of skill level is one of the reasons I want to get rid of it.

I do agree its not perfect indicator, I know it from personal experiance I was MR 8 for very long time, not because I could got further but because I didnt care, I heard my favorite frames and weapons that I was really good at using, enough to get rift sigil from Escalation phase of phoenix intercept tactical alert. I decided to level up to much higher mastery rank because I wanted to experiance raids and in general they didnt want to invite people who were low MR.

But if you think about it in mmorpgs's with pvp "level" also isnt perfect  indicator of how powerful someone is, how someone invested in stats and skills can make huge difference, lower level can defeat higher level if they have good build. Blade and Soul game is good example of that, higher level in general can defeat lower level player, its pretty grindy game so high level in general means they spend a LOT of time in game, which means they have good stats and gear BUT lower level can still win if they have good skill rotation or if they play smart.

[Nivueniconnu]

On 09/06/2017 at 4:53 PM, JSharpie said:

Subjective title aside, it's time I finally faced the facts. This game, from the start to the end, is the same thing. Shoot, run to extract, shoot, run to extract. There is little variation on anything. Even playing different frames feels the same. Whenever a new or interesting mechanic comes out, it's either a gimmick (Operators), worthless (2/5 focus schools), or non-functional/troll heavy (Limbo, and I really like Limbo). This isn't a slight at the devs, I couldn't have done better and I think they're doing their best. Lets face it though, even attempts at reworks just end up being more of the same. Archwing was the last totally new thing we got and it was awesome, the possibilities were awesome! Supposedly they're working on it, but it flopped. Majorly.

So there lies the crux of the problem. This game is boring. At least for me. I don't think I'm the only one, but if I am, woops. I mean where is the variation in gameplay? Even new powers are functionally the same. Generally there are 5 categories. CC, Buffs, Damage, Utility, and Mobility. That's what our powers generally do. And they're effective, sure, but are they fun? Maybe for the first couple of months of gameplay, but after that? I mean a lot of us have been at this for 2, 3, 4 years! All we do is shoot, or spam E to melee. I mean a lot could be accomplished if just the Melee system was fleshed out, or if the FoV was able to be altered just a bit more! But instead we have grossly powerful weapons where we hit one button and everything dies until the level gets so high we just can't possibly do it anymore. That's not good game design, at least not in my opinion. We need fixed level design. Let me play on beautiful earth with level 100 enemies. Balance our mods and weapons around that. Set a level cap, and balance around it. It'll be hard work, but it'll pay off. Vary  you're enemies. Make parrying do something. Let me open up a melee only enemy for finishers by parrying at the right time. Oh wait, did you guys know we can already do that? It's never apparent, and there is almost no purpose to it. So give us purpose to our mechanics. Make charge attacks work, make channeling worthwhile, make deflection viable, allow varied gameplay instead of this tired meta.

DE, I know you're trying hard, but as a long time fan of the game there are some glaring problems that need to be fixed. I've been ignoring them for awhile assuming better things were on the horizon, but it's important to point this out now. The direction the game is, the direction I think it's going, it isn't fun. Not for me, and I'm willing to bet not for others. 

Take Black Desert Online. I've been playing that game for awhile. That game is more of a grind than this is. It's awful, yet I love that game to bits. The gameplay is fun. Combos are flashy, taming horses is fun, farming, fishing, crafting, it's all there and all interesting. What's stopping Warframe from adding something new? Something varied? Something to do that isn't just a new tool to do the same thing?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and it works out. I hope it's just me that has found this game to be boring. 

Omg guys, you're so right ! i can't say best thing than this. I just want to add that this game is amazing and he only need a little bite of work on what is already in progress and also in the end game.

On 09/06/2017 at 4:59 PM, ashrah said:

i faced some problem..u log in and u dont know what to do  

Yes that's the URGENT problem for me. There's a moment where there's nothing to do.

On 09/06/2017 at 5:02 PM, Elvangreen said:

The thing is, whenever they add something new, people complain, and then they get worried about putting more effort into it, and it gets left behind.

E.g. Focus, Channeling, Lunaro, Operator, Archwing.

 

And if they stop producing new content to take time to overhaul old systems like damage and scaling, they would lose players who just want a constant flow of new weapons, missions, and quests.

 

Also, DE are a lot smaller then many other game companies, so it will take a while for them to make the game into what they want it to be. There is a reason its still in beta.

 

If your bored, then feel free to go off and play another game, come back in a year or two, then have fun exploring the way the game has evolved in your absence.

 

Personally, i have a variety of things i do to keep myself interested:

- I might help and guide new players.

- i might pick up a rarely used gun and try to max out its potential.

- i might go and try to fight sentients on lua using only weapons like daggers, or explosives.

- i might hit the randomize button then try to complete a sortie solo, using that random gear.

- i might farm a bit of kuva and roll a riven a few times, but in a fleeting fun way, not a hard grind.

- i might try to fill my codex entries.

- i might try to do long defence/survival missions

etc.

 

Overall, they have a choice, Keep making more content and money, and drag the game out a good few years until it dies, or take the plunge and rework damage, scaling, mods, focus, operators, and archwing, and hope that enough people recognize the necessity and support them in this.

There are good signs, with a melee 2.5 and focus 2.0 at tennocon, but only time will tell if they are going to take the plunge and work toward the games true potential, rather than keeping it as-is, and just releasing a stream of guns and frames.

OMG it seems we're talking about it in my clan :)

You're point of view is not constructive. You're right in what you say but you can't ask someone who take care about leaving such message (it show that he love the game) to simply go away for 1 or 2 years !

i LOVE this game too, i've 36 years old and i'm from this generation who's begun with the 1st generation of video game and grow with it. This game represent everything i've ever wich in a game from my little age. I don't want to change game (there's no other freetoplay at this high level of finition for me for the moment).

I've sayed we already have this kind of conversation in our clan. Some of them like the game like this with adding frame/weapon and defend the nonsens where you already have something to do... You can add to your list farm kuria / Add 1 catalyst and format on a weapon / go to the index for 1H etc...

But the reward is not interesting for this and it's not the core of the game.

WTH can u do when you've done your list + mine etc...? Have a new warframe with a weapon set? It give me just 4/5 day of farm...

Give me a fight for a sector for 1mounth; or crafting to do for long time with an amazing warframe (like all other warframe (OMG did i've say i love this game?)) when i reach the last level.

Yes DE you've have make me dream with this game but i really think now you better concentrate your developpement on the end game => Make players something to do when they reach the end of the game; and the existing process write below (focus / archwing etc..). Stop making us amazing developpement like Octavia ! It's a whole time of work for only 1 warframe. Yes the work is great, no problem on this, but there's priority i think.

Thank you for this game.

Have a long life ;)

[ashrah]

14 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

This.

this would be really cool

[Volinus7]

3 hours ago, Nivueniconnu said:

 

Octavia is indeed amazing. 

Twerking to go invisible. Crossmatched old mechanics from old frame like loki, good thing the redundancy level is not as high as Rhino-Nezha.

[motorfirebox]

16 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

You're never going to stop people from being selective in their recruiting. That doesn't justify getting rid of a rank/level system.

It's not just about recruiting, it's about how players play. When a game has a level system, players try to get levels. It's what they're there for! And they'll naturally try to get levels as quickly as possible. Which is, again, how you end up with problems like Viver and whatever the one on Pluto was. Even if you open up MR to include all activities, players won't do everything to gain MR—they'll mostly grind the one thing that gains MR the fastest. MR will still be a measure of little more than who has the most patience for grinding.

If there absolutely must be a level system, it should at least be centered around the things that make players more effective in-game. In Warframe, that's maxing (certain) mods and polarizing gear. It still won't be perfect, because that crazy guy who put 100 forma on his MK1 Braton will have a higher MR than a guy who manages to fit 100 points' worth of mods into his Amprex, but at least the thing players mindlessly grind to gain MR will have some bearing on how good they are in-game. (It won't measure skill, but there are enough press 4 frames that skill is a low bar anyway.)

Everything else is basically achievements. Achievements are great, and Warframe should add lots more, but making achievements serve as levels, when levels are used to a) incentivize gameplay and b) measure player worthiness, achievements aren't a good fit.

Anyway, that's my take. I'm 100% in favor of your idea to have Warframe measure and reward more gameplay activities. Minor disagreement on how those measurements should be represented.

Edited June 16, 2017 by motorfirebox

[ikkabotz]

I think there should be a greater focus on quality of gameplay and less focus on the amount of content. I don't feel gameplay is in a good place right now. Melting enemies with massive damage or locking things massively with crowd control gets old and is inexpressive. Alternatively when we finally fall out of the bubble of CC and damage enemies scale with incredible accuracy and dmg to drop you fast. It's a bad format. We go from over emphasized dominance to dropping like a fly. Adjust things so we want to play together and recognize each others talents with moderate enemy scaling. We should be rewarded for sticking with each other through an extended challenge. I want to feel the overlap with teammates and our ability (skill??) to play the game. 

We don't need Warframes with Maid costumes, dancing emojis, more relics, more information, more this that and the other. We need to enjoy playing together. Synergy and a feeling of increased depth to the gameplay in MISSION should be the fundamental priority to Warframe. Everything else needs to come after that priority in my opinion. Warframe is not in a good place in this respect. The game is not as fun right now and feels like it's being filled with more and more clutter. This has been a slippery slope chipping away at the game for quite some time now. The time to act is now. I'm not trying to be henny penny about it, but I have played for years and I feel there are some severe issues with the game right now like I've never felt before. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm saying all this because I truly care about Warframe and feel the time to act on these issues is now. I personally feel a lot of the veteran players are speaking out and deserve respect in what they are addressing to the community and DE right now. I please ask that these concerns are taken very seriously. I truly feel we're on a more delicate edge than we may realize and it would sadden me greatly to see something great lost in the direction we're currently moving in.

Edited June 18, 2017 by komoriblues

[Iccotak]

8 minutes ago, komoriblues said:

I think there should be a greater focus on quality of gameplay and less focus on the amount of content. I don't feel gameplay is in a good place right now and needs adjustment so we get back to grouping together and feeling synergy among teammates. Melting enemies with massive damage or locking things massively with crowd control gets old and is inexpressive. Alternatively when we finally fall out of the bubble of CC and damage enemies scale with incredible accuracy and dmg to drop you fast. It's a bad format. We go from over emphasized dominance to dropping like a fly. Adjust things so we want to play together and recognize each others talents with moderate enemy scaling. We should be rewarded for sticking with each other through an extended challenge. I want to feel the overlap with teammates and our ability (skill??) to play the game. We don't need Warframes with Maid costumes, more relics, more information, more this that and the other. We need to enjoy playing together. This should be the fundamental priority to the game, everything else needs to come after it.  

^This^
We should be promoting teamwork. I hate it so much how gameplay is centered on farming as fast as possible by zooming through a level.
Do you know why that is the case? Because there is nothing else to do besides farm for rewards so players burn through levels.
They say there is plenty to do when what they mean is that there is a lot to farm for.

I want more to my game than just farming.

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

3 hours ago, komoriblues said:

I think there should be a greater focus on quality of gameplay and less focus on the amount of content. I don't feel gameplay is in a good place right now. Melting enemies with massive damage or locking things massively with crowd control gets old and is inexpressive. Alternatively when we finally fall out of the bubble of CC and damage enemies scale with incredible accuracy and dmg to drop you fast. It's a bad format. We go from over emphasized dominance to dropping like a fly. Adjust things so we want to play together and recognize each others talents with moderate enemy scaling. We should be rewarded for sticking with each other through an extended challenge. I want to feel the overlap with teammates and our ability (skill??) to play the game. 

We don't need Warframes with Maid costumes, dancing emojis, more relics, more information, more this that and the other. We need to enjoy playing together. Synergy and a feeling of increased depth to the gameplay in MISSION should be the fundamental priority to Warframe. Everything else needs to come after that priority in my opinion. Warframe is not in a good place in this respect. The game is not as fun right now and feels like it's being filled with more and more clutter. This has been a slippery slope chipping away at the game for quite some time now. The time to act is now. I'm not trying to be henny penny about it, but I have played for years and I feel there are some severe issues with the game right now like I've never felt before. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm saying all this because I truly care about Warframe and feel the time to act on these issues is now. I personally feel a lot of the veteran players are speaking out and deserve respect in what they are addressing to the community and DE right now. I please ask that these concerns are taken very seriously. I truly feel we're on a more delicate edge than we may realize and it would sadden me greatly to see something great lost in the direction we're currently moving in.

 

You've got my vote.

[OniDax]

5 hours ago, Iccotak said:

I want more to my game than just farming.

This should be what all of us want - more than just farming.

[motorfirebox]

I think one of the things Warframe desperately needs is a focus beyond the current mission. Invasions and stuff like that should matter. We need some kind of overarching mechanic that relates to keeping the balance and preventing civilian casualties. They're sorta moving in that direction with the Razorback Armada/Formorian thing, but it's backwards because we're helping build them instead of trying to prevent them (I suppose technically we're helping one by preventing the other, but still).

I guess the most basic form this could take would be to have 2-3 miniature tactical alerts cycling through all the time. Vay Hek is gathering forces to put down a Red Veil insurrection, help weaken him—survival missions to keep his troops engaged, exterminates against exposed units, capture missions against the ranking officers, and so on. Set up some scenarios where each mission actually means something, and keep a running tally of, I dunno, Troop Concentration (need to run more survivals and exterminates), Operational Efficiency (need to run more captures), etcetera. When the levels are brought low enough, it opens up a boss battle with Vay Hek.

[Ascythian]

You could just take a break from WF and then come back 2 years later, when there will be a lot of spangly new things.

[OniDax]

3 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

I think one of the things Warframe desperately needs is a focus beyond the current mission. Invasions and stuff like that should matter. We need some kind of overarching mechanic that relates to keeping the balance and preventing civilian casualties. They're sorta moving in that direction with the Razorback Armada/Formorian thing, but it's backwards because we're helping build them instead of trying to prevent them (I suppose technically we're helping one by preventing the other, but still).

I guess the most basic form this could take would be to have 2-3 miniature tactical alerts cycling through all the time. Vay Hek is gathering forces to put down a Red Veil insurrection, help weaken him—survival missions to keep his troops engaged, exterminates against exposed units, capture missions against the ranking officers, and so on. Set up some scenarios where each mission actually means something, and keep a running tally of, I dunno, Troop Concentration (need to run more survivals and exterminates), Operational Efficiency (need to run more captures), etcetera. When the levels are brought low enough, it opens up a boss battle with Vay Hek.

The core gameplay needs to be more fleshed out. These other alerts and such are fine, but they don't make up for a very basic core game (main mission types). That is the core gameplay experience, and it needs to be more fleshed out, more developed, so that we want to keep going back to it for the gameplay experience and not just for rewards.

[ganjou234]

When was the last time any of us actually snuck through a level? Synchronized takedown of the wardens? IMHO nowadays Spy missions are the most fun, specifically because of the obstacle course and sneaking about when we get at the hacking area, or the slick kill I did without being caught. When I seek gratuitous amounts of combat, I go to Mot or I tank Kela De Thaym's rockets head-on. lol.

• +Increase rewards when mission parameters are met. (ie killing + but no alarms, stealth + no killing, stealth + exterminate, stealth + assassinate(kill only the wardens silently))
  • -Decrease rewards severely when breaking mission parameters.
  • Stealth sabotage will require the player to extract before a timer is done while avoiding any alarms.
  • Make wardens minibosses, not just buffed up heavies.
  • Improve the lobby. We should be able to declare if we want the mission as a stealth or aggressive run.
    • +Increase rewards for doing battle head-on, in aggressive rooms. Encourage dishing and taking damage.
      • +Generate small (XP) affinity/focus per second in heated combat. (ex. +3.......+3.......+3)
      • +Likewise generate small (XP) affinity/focus per second of being in concealment when the parameters are stealth.
    • +More focus gain when meeting mission parameters.
    • Late joiners will have their warframe invisible for 30s when the room is set to stealth. (Or no late joining will be allowed).
• Give optional sub-objectives in defence and interception.
  • Optional sub-objectives in interception missions award a large amount of unshared-XP to compensate for not being in affinity range.
  • In defence, make certain rotations a mini-boss level.
• -Decrease pace of some missions (Rescue, Spy, Sabotage)
  • -Defeat timer in sabotage if detected before starting the meltdown/sabotage.
• -Dramatically decrease invisibility duration for specific frames (imho, specifically Loki)
  • +Also increase its efficiency (Loki)
• Tweak abilities, make them more interesting. Synergies are always fun.
  • Introduce cooldowns (ie Exalted Blade)
    • Exalted Blade is active for 10 seconds and has a 10 second cooldown. Duration mods increase both active and cooldown portions.
      • Cooldown is refunded when exalted blade is toggled off before reaching its maximum duration.
      • Exalted blade does a radial blind upon sheathing (sheathing animation) and reaching maximum duration, not when toggled off.
      • Melee mods apply 3x their effect on Exalted Blade at max power(mana), apply normally below 80%power(mana), and are halved when below 30% power(mana). (Mana, just incase someone gets confused).
  • Slash Dash Ignores 10%/30%/50% of any non-heavy non-eximus unit's armor.
    • Blocking enemy attacks a fills a gauge. When fully charged, allows it to also ignore heavy and eximus unit's armor for 5s.
      • Also applies with the blocking of exalted blade.
• Sudden change events.
  • ie. Rescue attempt suddenly becomes a survival with 50% life support, give some reason like having the hull suddenly breached.
  • Exterminate suddenly has an additional assassinate miniboss.

[ALEX_IV]

38 minutes ago, ganjou234 said:

 IMHO nowadays Spy missions are the most fun, specifically because of the obstacle course and sneaking about when we get at the hacking area, or the slick kill I did without being caught.

A lot of people don't like spy missions, but I think they are the best designed levels. 

You actually interact with the map. You have to evade lasers, or guards, etc. You usually go silent, and undetected. There is challenge in them.

And they are varied. There are quite a few spy maps between corpus and grineer spy missions.

[ganjou234]

46 minutes ago, ALEX_IV said:

A lot of people don't like spy missions, but I think they are the best designed levels. 

You actually interact with the map. You have to evade lasers, or guards, etc. You usually go silent, and undetected. There is challenge in them.

And they are varied. There are quite a few spy maps between corpus and grineer spy missions.

Indeed. The difficulty actually lies in the design, not just the enemy scaling.

You have to time your movements, use the environment, be aware of the enemies FOV........unless u a Loki. 

[(PSN)Monipulator3216]

On 6/9/2017 at 7:53 AM, JSharpie said:

Subjective title aside, it's time I finally faced the facts. This game, from the start to the end, is the same thing. Shoot, run to extract, shoot, run to extract. There is little variation on anything. Even playing different frames feels the same. Whenever a new or interesting mechanic comes out, it's either a gimmick (Operators), worthless (2/5 focus schools), or non-functional/troll heavy (Limbo, and I really like Limbo). This isn't a slight at the devs, I couldn't have done better and I think they're doing their best. Lets face it though, even attempts at reworks just end up being more of the same. Archwing was the last totally new thing we got and it was awesome, the possibilities were awesome! Supposedly they're working on it, but it flopped. Majorly.

So there lies the crux of the problem. This game is boring. At least for me. I don't think I'm the only one, but if I am, woops. I mean where is the variation in gameplay? Even new powers are functionally the same. Generally there are 5 categories. CC, Buffs, Damage, Utility, and Mobility. That's what our powers generally do. And they're effective, sure, but are they fun? Maybe for the first couple of months of gameplay, but after that? I mean a lot of us have been at this for 2, 3, 4 years! All we do is shoot, or spam E to melee. I mean a lot could be accomplished if just the Melee system was fleshed out, or if the FoV was able to be altered just a bit more! But instead we have grossly powerful weapons where we hit one button and everything dies until the level gets so high we just can't possibly do it anymore. That's not good game design, at least not in my opinion. We need fixed level design. Let me play on beautiful earth with level 100 enemies. Balance our mods and weapons around that. Set a level cap, and balance around it. It'll be hard work, but it'll pay off. Vary  you're enemies. Make parrying do something. Let me open up a melee only enemy for finishers by parrying at the right time. Oh wait, did you guys know we can already do that? It's never apparent, and there is almost no purpose to it. So give us purpose to our mechanics. Make charge attacks work, make channeling worthwhile, make deflection viable, allow varied gameplay instead of this tired meta.

DE, I know you're trying hard, but as a long time fan of the game there are some glaring problems that need to be fixed. I've been ignoring them for awhile assuming better things were on the horizon, but it's important to point this out now. The direction the game is, the direction I think it's going, it isn't fun. Not for me, and I'm willing to bet not for others. 

Take Black Desert Online. I've been playing that game for awhile. That game is more of a grind than this is. It's awful, yet I love that game to bits. The gameplay is fun. Combos are flashy, taming horses is fun, farming, fishing, crafting, it's all there and all interesting. What's stopping Warframe from adding something new? Something varied? Something to do that isn't just a new tool to do the same thing?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and it works out. I hope it's just me that has found this game to be boring. 

I'd highly recommend you just not play then. As many other people said, DE is basically being forced to do what the community wants, instead of making moving on to more important things and then fixing the bad; doesn't help they have a small team as well. I'm not going to say everyone in this community is toxic, but it seems like a lot of the people in the community are, and when it comes to DE choosing to add on to the game, and worry about the old, badly executed things (archwing, and so on) later, they're being told to work on the old things, which causes other projects to be postponed, which leads to you becoming bored. It hurts me to watch a devstream sometimes and seeing how tired and stressed out they look, which is why I stray away from the streams, as it bums me out. Not to mention that those toxic persons in the chat are rather twofaced- they'll complain and complain about old things that can and eventually will be dealt with later, and when DE works on it, they'll praise them for a little bit, watch the stream like everything is honky-dory, then go back to complaining on the same things and postpone more things that'll keep your attention. Maybe you should be like what some people said, and allow them to work on what they have planned (basically meaning, get more stuff out), then iron out the bugs. 

[artemisfortune]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)michaelturner-sm said:

I'd highly recommend you just not play then. As many other people said, DE is basically being forced to do what the community wants, instead of making moving on to more important things and then fixing the bad; doesn't help they have a small team as well. I'm not going to say everyone in this community is toxic, but it seems like a lot of the people in the community are, and when it comes to DE choosing to add on to the game, and worry about the old, badly executed things (archwing, and so on) later, they're being told to work on the old things, which causes other projects to be postponed, which leads to you becoming bored. It hurts me to watch a devstream sometimes and seeing how tired and stressed out they look, which is why I stray away from the streams, as it bums me out. Not to mention that those toxic persons in the chat are rather twofaced- they'll complain and complain about old things that can and eventually will be dealt with later, and when DE works on it, they'll praise them for a little bit, watch the stream like everything is honky-dory, then go back to complaining on the same things and postpone more things that'll keep your attention. Maybe you should be like what some people said, and allow them to work on what they have planned (basically meaning, get more stuff out), then iron out the bugs. 

Had the same viewpoint as you do now. I'd recommend you go through and read some of this thread. This game isn't bad because of a lack of content, it's bad because the content doesn't have any real substance.

Bad meaning not as good as it could be of course.