Why are Heavy blade Swords like the Galatine or War not affected by Excaliburs Passive?

[Dragazer]

Before any of you bring up the Scindo,

All "dual swords" are affected by the passive

Are the Twin Basolk swords? Dual Zorens? Dual Kamas? Dual Raza? Dual cleavers? and Dual Ichor? (Description: "The fast and brutal Dual Ichor axes will quickly tear through enemies with a high probability of inflicting critical damage.")

Why are weapons that are very clearly not swords benefiting from the Swordsman passive when the sword that is named from the exact same Arthurian Legends as Excalibur is not? (Galatine)

Edited June 14, 2017 by Dragazer

[DeejayPwny]

Because his passive applies to dual swords (and weapons that share those stance), single swords (and same stanced weapons), and Nikanas. Heavy Blades, while able to be swords, are NOT Excalibur's forte.

[Dragazer]

20 hours ago, DeejayPwny said:

Because his passive applies to dual swords (and weapons that share those stance), single swords (and same stanced weapons), and Nikanas. Heavy Blades, while able to be swords, are NOT Excalibur's forte.

Are you saying that using dual axes are Excal's forte now? The "Swordsman" frame?

Edited June 15, 2017 by Dragazer

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

Because an extra 10% damage and speed, on top of mods, would be over-powered for those weapons.

[Dragazer]

4 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Because an extra 10% damage and speed, on top of mods, would be over-powered for those weapons.

The passive is additive to mods only, not multiplicative to the whole dmg, so its not going to shatter game balance or anything.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Dragazer

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

I imagine Excalibur as the guy who is better suited with making fast, powerful strikes with a blade. Very hard to do that with a sword twice your weight.

And as for the axe/sickle/cleavers scenario, technically speaking, all Warframes are proficent at every weapon, so I don't think there needs to be a specific reason as to why Excalibur's range of passive-triggering weapons is so large. Besides, it would suck if you couldn't get a buff on a good Dual Ichor build just because they're not SWORDS and Cali is a SWORDSMAN. Don't know what else to say.

[Acos]

Probably just because the coding is for specific classes of weapons and they decided "heavy blade" was too broad a category to be a sword. Excalibur basically just has a melee passive at that point. I wouldn't mind if they coded him for Galatine and War, but it's not a big deal if they never do. 

[Dragazer]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

I imagine Excalibur as the guy who is better suited with making fast, powerful strikes with a blade. Very hard to do that with a sword twice your weight.

And as for the axe/sickle/cleavers scenario, technically speaking, all Warframes are proficent at every weapon, so I don't think there needs to be a specific reason as to why Excalibur's range of passive-triggering weapons is so large. Besides, it would suck if you couldn't get a buff on a good Dual Ichor build just because they're not SWORDS and Cali is a SWORDSMAN. Don't know what else to say.

It makes perfect sense to me, Excalibur is labeled as a "Swordsman". He is supposed to be more proficient and specialized in all matters of Swordsmanship, which is why DE later added the Rapiers in his passive effects.

Simple fact of the matter is that Axes are clearly not swords so shouldn't be benefiting from the passive that is called "Swordsmanship"

While greatswords should for obvious reasons.

[Dragazer]

3 minutes ago, Acos said:

Probably just because the coding is for specific classes of weapons and they decided "heavy blade" was too broad a category to be a sword. Excalibur basically just has a melee passive at that point. I wouldn't mind if they coded him for Galatine and War, but it's not a big deal if they never do. 

Idk when half of the "Dual Swords" in the category (6 out of 11 atm) aren't even swords, it just feels weird 

Edited June 15, 2017 by Dragazer

[Cataclysmic-Divinity]

Yeah it would be nice for Excalibur's passive to work on heavy blade weapons. I'm pleased that it does work on dual blades like the dual kama prime, even though those are sickles and not swords. I have the kama forging at the moment, I'm wondering if his passive will have an effect on that as well.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

I mean, it would be "nitpicky" on DE's part should they implement Cali's passive on anything that blatantly resembled a blade. I mean, the Nami Solo is technically a sword, why doesn't it get affected by the passive?

"ERMAHGERD, LBK!? ERS NERT A SWERD! ERS A MAHCHERT!111!1!one!"

No. The Nami isn't a machete. It's a cutlass in the machete family of weapons. 

The Nami Skyla is just a cutlass and a dagger. The dagger isn't a sword, why is IT affected by the passive?

Also, heavy blades are powerful by themselves. They don't really need a buff, especially from a passive-

"ERMAGERD, LBK?!?!? DA SEM CERN BE SAYD FER ANY WERPERN!111!!!1!eleven!!!1"

Fair enough. With the right build, any weapon can be a powerhouse. However, take my previous point into consideration.

Excalibur is a swordsman. He is skilled with swords. His lore doesn't specify which size. However, it is implied by the weapon categories affected by his passive that Cali prefers a regular-sized sword over a big-&#! freaking behemoth like Galatine Prime.

 

[Galatea]

1 hour ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Because an extra 10% damage and speed, on top of mods, would be over-powered for those weapons.

For whatever validity or nod that we may have to things as they exist within the Warframe universe, game balance probably does also tie heavily into design decisions like this.  The base damage of heavy blades is higher in most cases than their one-handed counterparts, so one would be dealing with 10% of 'more' in those aspects.  It would be nice and a lot of fun, though!  ♥

[Dragazer]

8 minutes ago, Ishixia said:

For whatever validity or nod that we may have to things as they exist within the Warframe universe, game balance probably does also tie heavily into design decisions like this.  The base damage of heavy blades is higher in most cases than their one-handed counterparts, so one would be dealing with 10% of 'more' in those aspects.  It would be nice and a lot of fun, though!  ♥

I don't see how a 10% additive bonus to mods is going to tip the balance any further.

Galatine p has a base dmg of 165 with Prime pp it would be 437.5

If the passive were to apply it would be 453.75 instead.

With full mods and accounting for crit and combo counter, Galatine p fully modded deals 12501.501 per hit at 3x combo counter

Adding the passive would make it 12973.257

From 12501.501 to 12973.257 is hardly going to imbalance things at all.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Dragazer

[Acos]

55 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Idk when half of the "Dual Swords" in the category (6 out of 11 atm) aren't even swords, it just feels weird 

It wasn't an argument, it was an explanation. In a perfect world they'd code specific weapons for an Excalibur buff, but fielding an entire category is probably simpler. 

[JacketUnHoly]

.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Lluminate

[Chipputer]

Because a one handed blade and a pair of the same are not nearly the same thing as a huge, two handed blade and they simply gave Excal mastery over a few categories instead of hand picking and coding them.

[Vaporoxgaming]

If anyone here wants to get into real-life application, the actual training that goes into learning how to use a single sword, a katana (nikana here) and 2 short swords is all quite similar and all three styles draw from the same basic stances and swings.  Greatswords, however, have a massively different training regimen and therefore do not rely on the same core techniques as the aforementioned.  That'd be if we wanted to compare Warframe passives to reality.  If not, then I apologize for failing to add something relevant.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

OP, do you ACTUALLY think DE has the time to go through EVERY melee weapon, including ones not yet added, determine what's a sword and what's a Machete or heavy blade etc., JUST to make one frame's passive 1000% exactly as advertised? you must think they aren't very busy or something, but they are.

as others have said, Heavy Blades don't need Excal's 10% buff to be more powerful, Galatine Prime dominates the Meta as it is, and we're still waiting on Melee Rivens, which despite dispositions, will make heavy blades even MORE powerful.

it's fine as it is.

[InDueTime-EN-]

Single handed and dual wielding weapons require less strength compared to two-handed weapons. If you practice with handling a one-handed weapon, it is also wise to train your other hand in the use of this weapon, transitioning to wielding 2 weapons from that makes sense while suddenly holding a heavier weapon and using both hands in a single grip is different. 

Its the difference between mouse + keyboard and controller. You can use both but it will be hard to master playing the same game with the same level of skill. 

[FireSegment]

are you suggesting this out of wanting the theme to correct, or u just wanted a plain buff to galatine?

if the theme is correct, then both dual sword and heavy blade should be strip off the passive effect, as both contain "stuff that are not sword". or make a specific exception list for only a few weap that excal can use with buff, regardless of category. (which would make the passive even more boring)

if you just want a plain buff to all heavy blade with excal, u can forget about it, as u already conflict yourself in the reason to buff (cuz scindo is still not-a-sword), and DE wont do it anyway, it was more of a fun-to-have feature than one that actually affect gameplay.

[Miser_able]

It doesn't matter if some of the dual swords aren't swords. If you are trained in using 2 swords and someone hands you 2 axes and says they are used exactly the same as your swords, than you will know how to use them. But if I handed you a heavy blade and said it was used the same I would be very wrong and you would have no idea what your doing.