[U21 Megathread] New Warframe: Harrow

[Ocerkin]

its a really really thin area of effect, ive had it pass right next to an enemy and not effect them, its one of the things im trying to get the devs to change with his abilities, he has incredible potential, but at the moment he is pretty underwhelming for the lengths you have to go to get him up and running

[theMongoose]

To chime in on his 4 real quick.

The crit chance helps to bring up weapons that may not have it and enhance weapons that already crit well. 

I've been using the Zenith with Harrow to great effect. His 2 eliminates the reload and eliminates the need for mods like shred. It also helps with the Zeniths slow as hell secondary. With his 4 I'll consistently orange and occasionally red crit in it's auto mode. It also has 90 something percent status chance.

I'll also use the Euphona prime as a secondary. I was testing last night against lvl 120 corrupted heavy gunners to get a feel for his ability boosting potential. I'd use his 4 and max out the bonus, use his 2, then bind just before the invulnerability went away. The Euphona is powerful but without any buffs it took about 6 shots to kill it. With the buff it only took 3. So even though it's only crit chance it's still boosting your damage quite a bit.

But until his survivability is tweaked he will never see those levels outside the simulacrum.

[WaylanderG]

why not just make his 1 an AOE complete 360? 

dont need energy restore or anything else, this abillity is good as is just needs 360 AOE

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by WaylanderG

[Ocerkin]

24 minutes ago, WaylanderG said:

why not just make his 1 an AOE complete 360? 

dont need energy restore or anything else, this abillity is good as is just needs 360 AOE

 

360 aoe CC on his 1 would be to much, and it makes no sense in that he is throwing his thurible

Edited June 30, 2017 by Ocerkin

[Blacque]

Well for the first time in a long time (or was it yesterday?) I'll weigh in on Harrow.

I'm a little disappointed and I think I finally know why.  I'm not at my 'perfect' build with him, as I've only dumped two forma into him currently and haven't really dug into exilus mods just yet.  However, I've pointed out the one thing for me that has been a very big annoyance with the frame and I'm actually curious as to whether it's my personal pet peeve OR if other members of the community feel the same or at least can relate.

Disjointed/Disconnect. 

Like Arching, Harrow feels like he should be in a slower paced, tactical game, as oppose to a fast paced super powered ninja space frame.  Playing alone however to set the pace isn't viable because of how disjointed he is and how much time he spends not inflicting damage.  The prep time for archwing to be dun denies a lot of entry into it as well as investment.  Any investment into Archwing is investment not in the actual game played with Warframes.  I feel the same with Harrow as every investment I make into him leaves him doing more prep work to become useful rather than being useful.

His #1: Condemn! Is his best ability by far from what I've seen and you had better get use to using it.  Unfortunately this comes with little pay off as say Nidus, Oberon, or Ember or... pick a frame.  The enemies are CC'd.  Great!  I draw comparisons to Titania where at least the lock down is a lock down and you can target the enemies, but Titania also disarms her snared foes so.... moving on?

#2: Penance: I... phew okay.  So we already had a nice touch up on Mag where she can be mobile while using her abilities and it has made Mag amazing in my opinion.  Being a sitting duck in any regards in higher content is a very, very, very bad idea.  Now  naturally you can offset this by being 'immune to damage' with his 4 but the duration and window seem a slight too short for such a great risk and the visual cues for what is ending and when is not as clear as it could be.  "Oh okay no more gray, good now I'm...dead."  Being stuck in place to rip your shields off is a bad move.  Even worse is that it cripples him in the team environment because everyone wants to benefit from the buffs, orrrrr kill en masse which is usually the case.  I think DE really needs to come to grips with the fact that perhaps 10% of the community (Please correct me or disagree if you'd like this is an assumption I admit) actually decides to coordinate and communicate and use tactics in the star chart, or in sorties.

Also Penance for what?  Penance is to inflict suffering upon yourself for repentance sake if I'm not mistaken.  Um... my issue with this is not so much the name as that just dawned on me.  It's more that we have a skill that you do so that you can do something else.  If it were a defensive measure perhaps but taking someone like Rhino, Oberon, Trinity, they activate a skill you get the buff.  For Harrow you activate the skill and attempt to capitalize on the buff provided the team hasn't already destroyed everything, leaving you hunting for targets.  Thankfully Harrow can work rather effectively on the outskirts of the team in survival.. for a bit.  You press the button and are penalized and you had better hope that there are enemies left standing to capitalize upon, or you're waiting for your shields to return on their own.

#3: Terrible wait no Thurible

-sigh-  I watched the development of this frame and had been kind of tipping my head throughout going "What else does it do?"  You lose all ability to protect, defend, attack.. you spin your McGuffin with again the hope that you can capitalize upon it.  I have not once had a team back off while I spin the McGuffin, nor have I had a team go "Oh hey he beat himself, let's leave a few enemies to capitalize on the increased fire rate and health recovery, oh also his shields he'll need those back oh...everything's dead because someone was Nova..."

McGuffin (Thurible) Is a neat idea if it did something else.  If you used it and during the duration all allies got a ward of some sort.  Harrow needs something ACTIVE to participate as oppose to this sluggish "You'll get the chance to," theme that feels very disconnected from the tenno way of "Flowing like mad bladed river of blood seeking chaos to ruin the enemies with powers most unfathomable,"  instead Harrow is "Pace slowly around whilst whipping slowly the buttocks, spin the McGuffin so that once finished the chaos might ensue, thank ye gods for invulnerabilit-OUCH it is gone, I am decease!"

Covenante the #4:  You get pushed into a corner you know the odds are against you but thankfully you are Warframe, you are tenno!  You press the #4 and MAGIC happens!  A miasma rips through the enemies melting them to nothingness!  The world erupts into fire burning away all attackers!  The kinetic flow of every molecule within matter itself becomes primed with anti matter, locking it in a state of volatility while slowing its response to motion! 

Immune to damage and cc for X seconds, your fire arm  (which may or may not be useless at whatever point you're playing I'm talking to YOU lvl 145 Heavy Gunner!) receives the crit bonus that is IF the enemies were targeting you at all.  Also is anyone going to NOT play with the Knell as Harrow?  I thought about going with a different weapon set up but why?  The combo between the jav and the headshot pistol are actually quite satisfying but even then would be just as monstrous on Nova, or Rhino, Harrow just... ugh I don't know.

 

So I can only say he feels disjointed.  A great deal of time is spent preparing to be badass, where as everyone else is badass.  Does this make sense?  Am I taking crazy pills?  I love most frames that require some learning and I admit I haven't mastered him in the slightest.   I even adore playing support and helping out, I'm a Banshee player for the funs!  Love it!  However even Banshee is grade A Bad-&#! on the fly! Harrow just feels like he has to spend too much time preparing to contribute and then requires the proper circumstances to really be impressive with that preparation.

 

Please critique and question as you like.  I will refrain from positing further fixes or suggestions until I have a few more forma and a bit more time.  Any statement is very much subject to change as I admit I haven't played him long!  I ... want to love him.  I really do, I love his appearance and a support frame is very much needed I think and this does fill a niche I admit.  However, quite a few other frames do what he does far better, far faster and far more consistently so far.

[Blacque]

Hm, nothing more exciting than setting up to get faster fire rate and reload and crit damage only for Excalibur to slaughter the room with Exalted Blade.

 

orz

[Ocerkin]

his prep time for him to be useful needs to be shortened by a lot, he cant compete against the press 4 to wins or the other players, he is incredibly underwhelming compared to his own compatriots the other syndicate frames, octavia and nidus are both more powerful for the effort put in to obtain them than harrow is and he is arguably the more annoying one to obtain since you need to have war within and mot unlocked

 

i dont think he should have any aoe kill powers, i like his potential for being a CC support, but he needs prep time reduced and several changes to make him on par with even normal frames of the current era, i knew he was gonna be underpowered from the devstream when i saw his health go to dead multiple times during the stream but clearly the devs were using some form of god mode because his health instantly spiked back to full the second it would have hit zero, he has no hope in endgame

his 1 needs better aoe ive said it multiple times, a cone like ice wave would make sense here

this one isnt something that would kill him for me if it didnt happen but his 2 would be better off as a toggle so we could have one less timer to manage as we try to survive

his 3 take far to long to set up, its incredibly slow for this game

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by Ocerkin

[LSG501]

Ok first impressions while levelling and obvious caveat that this will likely change with shield gating and getting more familiar with him....

Shields don't really do much at the moment so the double overshields won't really do much, especially against damage that can bypass it.

Abilities:

1 - kind of wish this had either a wider 'collection zone' or it expanded (doesn't seem to) as it went further away and travelled faster - actually making it similar to oberons 2 would be nice where range affects radius.  Unless I'm directly in line with enemies and they're running in a straight line I've had situations where I miss the intended target(s).  Would also be nice if we get the overshields if someone else 'steals' our kills.... hmm this sounds familiar to nidus and his stacks which never got looked at again so I doubt this will happen either.

2 - reload is showing in abilities as 0.xx which technically means it will be slower.... shouldn't it be 1.xx for an multiplicative increase.  

Would also prefer it to be channelled rather than duration.

3 - has a major problem with giving energy to allies because they need to be inside the aura.... and well unless we're all standing still it's not going to happen so you're better off using trinity or zenurik...   Needs a larger range when sending energy if nothing else, maybe this should be affinity range too. 

What happened to the thurible being a weapon... doesn't seem to damage anything if it hits it.

Think I'd also prefer this to be a channelled ability too.

4 - Honestly invincibility duration is the biggest issue here for me, the duration given isn't even enough time to revive another player.  While I can understand you not wanting to have an immortal frame wandering around I think the current duration is a little short considering you have frames like nidus, wukong and oberon which can both revive/avoid death (with augment for oberon) and heal themselves in nidus/oberons case or even nyx/rhino/nezha where they have abilities that basically negate all damage.  Maybe this could be doubled. 

 

Harrow also suffers, just like nidus, in that his abilties all require enemies which ultimately means if you're on a starmap location with something like a wof ember or maim equinox etc.... your abilities are pretty much pointless (as are the guns technically but hey ho)

EDIT: animations take too long and the nerf to his 2 after literally one day is a bit of **** take to those of us who actually bought harrow and the complete opposite to what most people actually wanted doing to harrow

Edited July 1, 2017 by LSG501

[Firetrucksrule]

Only thing I'd agree with is buffing his passive. His overshield is nice on mid game but it only offers a half second of comfort at the absolute best in end game.

Condemn hardly costs anything at all, adding energy regen would just be OP. I could see a cone shape being more effective but Condemn's boon is that you can cast it through corners and light cover. Enviromental punch through more than makes up for the abilities poor width in my opinion.

So don't use Penance when you're surrounded, or stun everything with Condemn first. Couldn't you just chain it into the last bit of Covenant's invulnearbility phase anyway? I could agree with allowing movement while you're using it but I don't think It's even a remotely necessary change.

Thurible's usage cements Harrow as something this game hasn't had before. An obligate killer support. Long gone are the days of squads getting salty with me for outkilling them with Trinity, halle-fricking-lujah. Last but not least Harrow's kills restoring his own energy helps make him a solo monster, your proposed change to teammate kills restoring energy for Harrow would literally make that ability completely useless on solo and lock solo play Harrow to the Zenurik focus school. Don't think I could possibly disagree more with your points on this ability. I honestly could not overstate how annoyed I'd be if my own kills no longer restored my energy.

Don't spam your one before you use covenant then. Charge Thurible and get a few headshots, use Covenant, charge your two and then stun everything with the last seconds of invulnerability to restore overshields.

[Ocerkin]

11 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

Only thing I'd agree with is buffing his passive. His overshield is nice on mid game but it only offers a half second of comfort at the absolute best in end game.

Condemn hardly costs anything at all, adding energy regen would just be OP. I could see a cone shape being more effective but Condemn's boon is that you can cast it through corners and light cover. Enviromental punch through more than makes up for the abilities poor width in my opinion.

So don't use Penance when you're surrounded, or stun everything with Condemn first. Couldn't you just chain it into the last bit of Covenant's invulnearbility phase anyway? I could agree with allowing movement while you're using it but I don't think It's even a remotely necessary change.

Thurible's usage cements Harrow as something this game hasn't had before. An obligate killer support. Long gone are the days of squads getting salty with me for outkilling them with Trinity, halle-fricking-lujah. Last but not least Harrow's kills restoring his own energy helps make him a solo monster, your proposed change to teammate kills restoring energy for Harrow would literally make that ability completely useless on solo and lock solo play Harrow to the Zenurik focus school. Don't think I could possibly disagree more with your points on this ability. I honestly could not overstate how annoyed I'd be if my own kills no longer restored my energy.

Don't spam your one before you use covenant then. Charge Thurible and get a few headshots, use Covenant, charge your two and then stun everything with the last seconds of invulnerability to restore overshields.

"stun everything with condemn first" with its small effect range youd be casting around 20 times before you could stun "everything" if you were trying to stop from being surrounded, its area of effect is less than HALF of nidus's virulence with none of the damage dealing ( and no i dont want damage added) all i want is added aoe range for his CC, so i can cast around 4 times to cover a full 360 around him, not like 15 or 20 as it is now

Edited June 30, 2017 by Ocerkin

[Firetrucksrule]

1 minute ago, Ocerkin said:

"stun everything with condemn first" with its small effect range youd be casting around 20 times before you could stun "everything" if you were trying to stop from being surrounded, its area of effect is less than HALF of nidus's virulence with none of the damage dealing ( and no i dont want damage added) all i want is added aoe range for his CC, so i can cast around 4 times to cover a full 360 around him, not like 15 or 20 as it is now

If you're taking anywhere near 20 castings then you straight up suck at positioning. Be aware of your map and your enemy radar, and keep an awareness of where you can set up a quick chokepoint. Bullet jump out so the mobs start running towards the chokepoint, they'll spread out further along the z axis but they'll be closer grouped along the x axis. If you keep yourself properly angled and you should have just about all of the mob in 3 casts at worst. If you do it right then even if there are unstunned enemies they'll be blocked off enough by their stunned teammates.

I'm sorry but if you're issue with the ability is that you can't create a perfect 360 degree protection in 4 casts then the only problem with the ability is you. Every single Warframe has ridiculous parkour ability, you can work around that issue if you make use of it.

[Ocerkin]

6 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

If you're taking anywhere near 20 castings then you straight up suck at positioning. Be aware of your map and your enemy radar, and keep an awareness of where you can set up a quick chokepoint. Bullet jump out so the mobs start running towards the chokepoint, they'll spread out further along the z axis but they'll be closer grouped along the x axis. If you keep yourself properly angled and you should have just about all of the mob in 3 casts at worst. If you do it right then even if there are unstunned enemies they'll be blocked off enough by their stunned teammates.

I'm sorry but if you're issue with the ability is that you can't create a perfect 360 degree protection in 4 casts then the only problem with the ability is you. Every single Warframe has ridiculous parkour ability, you can work around that issue if you make use of it.

everyone else on the forums seems to agree his 1's aoe range is horrible, your the only person ive seen against it getting a buff, i dont think its me that has the issue here, im not asking for anything op or rediculous, a cone would be perfectly acceptable for his power and thematically correct as well, if youve ever thrown a chain or somehting with chains attached to it youll know chains tend to flair out as they fly, trust me ive been hit with one before, considering his power is also a 2 hand cast its woefully underpowered, you cant even cast while shooting

Edited June 30, 2017 by Ocerkin

[DustyFlash]

This is my oppinion on Harrow so far:

He feels good to play, and fun, however I have some very very small issues:

1st ability: It will be cast in the direction harrow is pointing and not the player wich removes some of the mobility of the ability.

2nd ability: Good, the duration cap should be buffed to 80 however.

3rd ability: The Charge rate should be speed up a very very slight bit, and the smoke only displays for the player and nobody else.

4th ability: Faster casting speed from 2s to 1.5s

Edited July 4, 2017 by DustyFlash
Changed some thoughts and feedback

[Firetrucksrule]

 

4 minutes ago, Ocerkin said:

everyone else on the forums seems to agree his 1's aoe range is horrible, your the only person ive seen against it getting a buff, i dont think its me that has the issue here, im not asking for anything op or rediculous, a cone would be perfectly acceptable for his power and thematically correct as well, if youve ever thrown a chain or somehting with chains attached to it youll know chains tend to flair out as they fly, ocnsidering his power is also a 2 hand cast its woefully underpowered, you cant even cast while shooting

I'm not disagreeing that the width on his one is low. I'm arguing that proper positioning can accomodate that, and that its environmental punchthrough makes up for it. I'm also not even remotely surprised a lot of people are complaining about it. Most comparable abilities have a wider beam, it's gonna take people more time to get used to it but you don't need 360 degree protection when you can just use parkour to reposition yourself so you only need you target 60-100 degrees. Combine that with the fact that you can stun a good portion of a room before entering it by shooting it through the corners, or stunning enemies from around a hallway and a width buff would start looking OP. I wouldn't complain about a quite small buff to its width but anything other than that would be way to much justification to start nerfing its other properties for my taste.

[Kylo.]

15 minutes ago, DustyFlash said:

The 1second/100 shields should be affected by power duration (200% duration = 2s/100 shields, 150% dur = 1.5s/100 shields etc.) as sacrificing the shields usually puts me at risk, at the same time it locks me in place for a few seconds, wich is more than enough for enemies to finish my health off.

Ever thought about Bullet jumping and then casting it?

16 minutes ago, DustyFlash said:

3rd ability: The Charge rate should be speed up a very very slight bit, and the smoke only displays for the player and nobody else.

 

Don't use max efficiency if you want to speed it up.

[Ocerkin]

11 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

 

I'm not disagreeing that the width on his one is low. I'm arguing that proper positioning can accomodate that, and that its environmental punchthrough makes up for it. I'm also not even remotely surprised a lot of people are complaining about it. Most comparable abilities have a wider beam, it's gonna take people more time to get used to it but you don't need 360 degree protection when you can just use parkour to reposition yourself so you only need you target 60-100 degrees. Combine that with the fact that you can stun a good portion of a room before entering it by shooting it through the corners, or stunning enemies from around a hallway and a width buff would start looking OP. I wouldn't complain about a quite small buff to its width but anything other than that would be way to much justification to start nerfing its other properties for my taste.

im not saying i WANT to be able to do 360 i meant that 4 casts around you to effect 360 around you as an example of the size of the cone id like it to be at MAXIMUM. infact in another topic i actually argued against someone asking for it to outright be 360, i just want it to be a cone, it would help immensely and its a simple easy fix, ive run this multiple times on missions and even a decently clustered group i still need to cast atleast twice, ive actually seen the wave pass right by the elbow of an enemy close enough that in real life id have felt wind rush past, and nothing, no effect whatsoever, its rail thin and thats what i want fixed, i really like his powers i like that he doesnt actually do damage, but i want some added aoe to the cast so it can be used more efficiently

 

unless the enemies do a conga line you arent going to end up getting them all in 1 cast, and you should be able to get a decently clustered group in 1 cast

Edited June 30, 2017 by Ocerkin

[Firetrucksrule]

2 minutes ago, Ocerkin said:

im not saying i WANT to be able to do 360 infact in another topic i actually argued against someone asking for it to outright be 360, i just want it to be a cone, it would help immensely and its a simple easy fix, ive run this multiple times on missions and even a decently clustered group i still need to cast atleast twice, ive actually seen the wave pass right by the elbow of an enemy close enough that in real life id have felt wind rush past, and nothing, no effect whatsoever, its rail thin and thats what i want fixed, i really like his powers i like that he doesnt actually do damage, but i want some added aoe to the cast so it can be used more efficiently

 

unless the enemies do a conga line you arent going to end up getting them all in 1 cast, and you should be able to get a decently clustered group in 1 cast

You don't need to build for negative efficiency with Harrow though. Just a streamline on and you should be able to afford two or three casts easily, especially with how much energy he generates. I'm not against a small buff to the width so it's not rope thin, but I think anything much beyond a shoulder width projection is asking for a nerf to one of its other properties.

[Ocerkin]

6 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

You don't need to build for negative efficiency with Harrow though. Just a streamline on and you should be able to afford two or three casts easily, especially with how much energy he generates. I'm not against a small buff to the width so it's not rope thin, but I think anything much beyond a shoulder width projection is asking for a nerf to one of its other properties.

just a heads up i actually edited my post prior to your quoting me you may wanna read it again.

also, to clarify about my last post, when i said at max i mean at MAX meaning over extended as well as stretch, which youd never REALLY need to run with harrow

i build for positive efficiency, and im not saying that i cant AFFORD to cast it, im saying that for efficiency of use it should have a better area of effect, i mean hell you can say oh you dont need to build for negative fficiency so lets make frosts powers a small ice spike instead of a wave, im not saying im having energy problems, im saying its for use in game while i play i shouldnt need to mash my 1 just to get a single group cc'd, there are SO many other frames with better CC than this, hell rhino, nezha, equinox, titania, just to name a few, and two of them arent even cc support frames as harrow has been built to be

Edited June 30, 2017 by Ocerkin

[ikkabotz]

Target more at distance, as it moves away from you it fans wider

Edited June 30, 2017 by komoriblues

[Kurambik]

21 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I've thought this could make a really good augment mod, to sort of help people learn where the heads are on the stranger enemies.

If it was an augment it would be useless and not really worth wasting a slot for. It's just a QoL change and doesn't really affect the power level of the frame (even though personally I think that he may need just a tiny little buff to his durations and make his 1 a cone rather than a line but otherwise it's fine). As an augment, I'd much rather have something that makes the warframe more powerful since I'm basically sacrificing a slot for it that could have a power strength mod in it for example.

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, Kurambik said:

If it was an augment it would be useless and not really worth wasting a slot for. It's just a QoL change and doesn't really affect the power level of the frame (even though personally I think that he may need just a tiny little buff to his durations and make his 1 a cone rather than a line but otherwise it's fine). As an augment, I'd much rather have something that makes the warframe more powerful since I'm basically sacrificing a slot for it that could have a power strength mod in it for example.

Well if all it did was highlight heads I would agree with you, but I am proposing a mod that also scans stuff into codex as well, providing a lot of utility. 

I am not sure I want it to be part of the main ability, because I don't think Harrow should have "Training wheels" as part of the main ability, breaks the immersion, imo. At least for me personally. 

And I think even someone who would use this highlighting would reach the point before long where they didn't need it anymore, that's why I suggest it as an augment, and not part of the main ability -- there fill codex when needed and temporarily teach/train those who don't know where the heads are on some of the more bizarre enemies where it isn't really intuitive. I think for some people it will just feel distracting and almost insulting, but some people will want it. Hence, augment, but with more than just showing heads highlighted. 

But I understand why you disagree, that's just my perspective on the issue. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[Kurambik]

18 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Well if all it did was highlight heads I would agree with you, but I am proposing a mod that also scans stuff into codex as well, providing a lot of utility. 

I am not sure I want it to be part of the main ability, because I don't think Harrow should have "Training wheels" as part of the main ability, breaks the immersion, imo. At least for me personally. 

And I think even someone who would use this highlighting would reach the point before long where they didn't need it anymore

Trust me it is useful even to veterans to have their heads highlighted. The first example that comes to my mind is when enemies receive a corruption buff. The detail of their colours and textures is almost gone and sometimes from far away it's hard to tell if they are looking towards you or away from you especially if one runs low graphic settings. It's not necessarily about "training wheels" but as a utility. In the heat of battle I personally enjoy having a Banshee for the very reason that I just naturally shoot the bright spots without thinking about it. Having the "area of interest" distinctly visible is a feature that greatly improves player performance without having to necessarily buff the stats of the frame because people are automatically drawn to the "glowy bits".

Also as a side note, I still haven't found what is considered a "head" on the Ratels and Rollers :P

EDIT: By "highlight" I did not necessarily mean the in-your-face way Banshee does. Just having the energy effects just a little bit richer and have a sort of "prisma-like" animation for example would be just fine.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Kurambik

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Kurambik said:

Trust me it is useful even to veterans to have their heads highlighted. The first example that comes to my mind is when enemies receive a corruption buff. The detail of their colours and textures is almost gone and sometimes from far away it's hard to tell if they are looking towards you or away from you especially if one runs low graphic settings. It's not necessarily about "training wheels" but as a utility. In the heat of battle I personally enjoy having a Banshee for the very reason that I just naturally shoot the bright spots without thinking about it. Having the "area of interest" distinctly visible is a feature that greatly improves player performance without having to necessarily buff the stats of the frame because people are automatically drawn to the "glowy bits".

Also as a side note, I still haven't found what is considered a "head" on the Ratels and Rollers :P

I understand what you are saying. And this is something I have given a lot of thought for for Harrow. I have considered that even for a veteran, it could be useful attacking from a distance, to just shoot at the glowy bit. But for some reason my mind has just been really focused on "this would make a great augment with some codex scanning thrown in". Do you think it would make more sense as an augment, if it not only did codex scans, but maybe provided a little bonus damage for headshots as well? IDK, I just thought it would be really cool to have an augment where Harrow scans enemies (because he's always going for weakpoints) and combining it with a headshot highlighting augment seemed like it would fit with scanning them, and then showing their weakpoints. 

I think more than anything I find it personally unlikely that they would make it part of the base, but who knows. Part of it could just be I am attached to my augment idea. ;)

And yeah, I think in some form this would be nice to have, so we can know where or if there are heads on some of those enemies. My guess at this point is that enemies like Ratel simply don't have a technical head to "shoot" but it would be good to find out once and for all. Sometimes it can be frustrating on some of the newer and stranger ones. 

[Kurambik]

8 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I just thought it would be really cool to have an augment where Harrow scans enemies

Personally I'm not really on board with this (don't get me wrong, when ever a new enemy type is released it might be extremely useful but other than that I don't see me using it much :/ ) Personally I would approach it slightly differently in terms of the codex, imagine sort of a combination of Helios's Investigate and Detect Invulnerability. It scans the enemies but once the codex entry is complete, it highlights all the bodyparts that have multipliers, for example, heads (2x), Bursas' consoles (3x), Moas' backs (3x not many people know about this), Ancients' arms (3x), Broodmothers' chest (2x), etc. and once the enemy is trapped (only if it is trapped), these parts all get the same effects from Harrow's abilities as headshots do.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 hour ago, Firetrucksrule said:

If you're taking anywhere near 20 castings then you straight up suck at positioning. Be aware of your map and your enemy radar, and keep an awareness of where you can set up a quick chokepoint. Bullet jump out so the mobs start running towards the chokepoint, they'll spread out further along the z axis but they'll be closer grouped along the x axis. If you keep yourself properly angled and you should have just about all of the mob in 3 casts at worst. If you do it right then even if there are unstunned enemies they'll be blocked off enough by their stunned teammates.

I'm sorry but if you're issue with the ability is that you can't create a perfect 360 degree protection in 4 casts then the only problem with the ability is you. Every single Warframe has ridiculous parkour ability, you can work around that issue if you make use of it.

I'm more than certain he was exaggerating. If you were playing this game for about 3 years, you'll remember that Frost's Ice Wave use to be in a line like condemn, and it was nigh useless. Even with the augment, it was a terrible ability. The only thing that brought it back was the rework that made it a conical ability. Then the augment became and amazing ability for crowd control. Without the augment, it's still a good temporary cc ability and decent damage. I can relate that situation so much to the present one. Make Condemn conical (or at least wider). Enough with the "get good" posts.