Warframe: Anything reasonable left?

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

Playing Warframe lately seems to me, that it leeds to more frustrations and disappointments than anything else. There's not much left in the game, to encourage being active in the game and there's not much left to encourage going to the forums either. The game have too many problems and the developers are too inactive in the forums in general.

I'm going to start out with the relics and the problems I see in there. First and biggest problem is the enoumus grind to actually getting that rare reward, the grind of getting 100 void traces, when you have 6-40 drop from opening another relic, I do realize farming for 1 relic gives you other relics, but that's a point I'll get to later in this thread. Doing the math with the middle of the road to account for RNG, assuming 23 void traces per relic, then you have to open 5 other relics to get enough traces, imagine those days (most days) RNG just isn't in your favour and you get less than 15 for all your relics, that is just an unreasonable amount of grind, for only 10% chance at the rare drop. And this is the grind from 1 person, then you still need the 3 other people to go through the same thing, instead of being able to work together and shorten the time considerably and share a relic, like the old void keys. The next problem with relics is, when you've gone through the grind of making it radiant, improving your chances, you're still left with 50% chance of getting a common item! That is just not reasonable, if you go through grind to improve your chances, then the bare minimum reward should at least be more ducats in the shape of the uncommon item! It is never reasonable to NOT reward work and that is exactly what a common drop from a radiant relic does. The next problem in the current system is, that if you want a specific relic, lets say the currently unvaulted Rhino and Mag relics, then you're stuck doing the same mission 100+ times for 10 relics, which you then have to go and make radiant (previous point repeated), and then you're only a quater of the way through. Some of us actually do have limited play time and cannot spend 7 days just grinding away in a game, then in the end don't even reward that grind very well. Relics needs a more reliable way of dropping specific relics, for example spread the relics out in specific missions and let us know where to get them, obviously with a reasonable drop chance. I am aware that during this unvaulted period it'll be the same 4 missions on repeat, but the rest of the time, we will have to play all missions, instead of just interception/Hieracon on repeat for neo/axi, IO/Helene for Meso and ODD for Lith. DE wanted us to spend the majority of our time all over the solar system, but grinding for primes, we spend the majority of our time in those 4 missions and in my opinion, it has NOT given any variation at all. Even worse is, those endless missions is far too happy to give out 1 specific relic more than the others. In short, the relic system is not working and it needs a serious helping hand to become a good system.

Next up we have the rivens. Only word I can think of to describe them is "Broken" and with the addition of melee rivens, that makes it even more broken. The way DE described rivens (forgive me for not having the right wordings and the quote on hand), they where supposed to bring life to lesser used weapons, add interesting stats to weapons and make us have a path to to that dream riven. So far rivens meet none of those, not a single one. They don't have interesting stats, they just have more stats that's already in the game. They don't bring life to lesser used weapons, when they're still making meta weapons more powerfull and they certainly don't have any kind of path to anything other than lottery frustrations. The chance of getting the riven exactly as you want, your version of a dream riven is in those 0.0001% mods that Rebecca had the nerves to comment about in the resent data mining debate. You want to avoid them? They're already here and have a huge role in the game as it is! The rivens have a possibility of 24 possible positive or negative rolls, with the addition of not having a stat in the last 2 stat slots. As stats cannot be repeated, the math for a is 24 rolls in the first, 23 in the second, 23 in the 3rd and 22 in the 4th slot, making it 279.312:1 of getting that dream riven. 279.312:1! There's absolutely nothing reasonable about that number and to say there's a path to that riven, that's just a straight up lie, because it's luck of the draw every single time you cycle a riven and no exclusion of previous rolls, meaning 300 rolls in, the chances aren't 279.012: they're still 279.312:1! Imagine that you actually wen't and rolled a riven 279.312 times, the amount of kuva you would need for such a task would be 997.507 kuva. With a Kuva Siphon givin 550-700 Kuva, that math alone drops in to the catagory of unreasonable, even with a resource booster, which all of this smells like a driving point for us to go and buy, just to have the imagination of making any kind of progress. Then lets talk about the slot cost for rivens. That's the next point of rivens that falls in to unreasonable. A weapon slot cost 6 platinum, I know they can only be bought 2 for 12, still makes 1 slot cost 6 platinum. With the amount of weapons in the game, that's still a significan't chunk of platinum if you want them all collected. Rivens cost 20 platinum for each slot (3 for 60), that is not reasonable at all! There's no way of spinning that to be reasonable, it's more than 3 times the cost of the slot for the weapon! That chunk of platinum is just simply not reasonable and I can say that without actually doing the math! There's simply nothing reasonable about rivens! And with the addition of melee rivens, it just feels like a method for DE of milking the cow for the last bit at all possible! The gab between melee weapons and primary/secondary weapons is already huge, now adding melee rivens, that gab is going to become even bigger and it is NOT good for the game! What the riven system desperately needs, is a method of making progress with the rivens we have, rolling singular stats, not the entire thing, that way we can actually have a path to that dream riven, we can make progress! As far as interesting stats, I don't think that will ever happen, as long as we just have base stats to roll, but if the cycling system at least got chanced to the point where we can roll those singular stats, then we're at least better off and have a somewhat working system for rivens. I am aware, that 99% of the rivens would be identical, but that's because 99% of the community want the same thing for their weapons, because that is what makes it the best possible roll in their opinion. Just on a sidenode, if you roll a riven with negative damage, you can actually heal the enemies instead, which makes that riven junk, no matter what the other rolls are, does that at all seem reasonable to anyone, that it's even an option of cycling negative damage?

Then there's the matter of the developers in the forums. I am aware that there's getting posted a lot of stuff every single day, but it's so rare I see a moderator or developer actually post anything, the vast majority of the threads, we're getting left with the feeling we don't matter at all and we're posting for the garbage bin! The absolute best option we as regular players have, is contact a partner or content creator with a brain, who is willing to take the battle that even they have getting through to the developers! What happened DE? You used to listen to the community, at least to some extend, but that feeling have long gone and I see players again and again getting frustrated with DE, writing in the chat out of pure frustration and getting kicked and banned for having an opinion at all. Contacting you at support is a dead end too, we're getting the same standard reply refering to the forums and after enough posts here, without any kind of answer, only a few trolls sitting and shutting down good and intelligent ideas, for what ever reason I can only speculate to. Another thing you handled poorly is the resent data mining debate, you put the information client side, if you want it kept a secret, keep it to yourself until you're ready to reveal it! It is naive to think no one is going to data mine warframe anymore and leak information, it is naive to think you can hide stuff in a game you know gets datamined, they fault of content being revealed early is your own. Datamining wouldn't even be a thing, if you had started out with reasonable drop chances and transparency in the beginning and I really don't think there's many people trusting you to NOT go back to redicilous grind figures, considering how much grind you've already added lately. Let us have data mining, we need it to even understand the weapons and mechanics of this game, because the information you're putting out is again unreasonable. Fix the problem, before forcing the community to remove OUR solution to YOUR mistakes and short commings!

Please just stop thinking of ways of trying to hide that you're INCREASING the grind in warframe, to make us spend money in an attempt to decrease that grind, it is unreasonable to the people who can't afford throwing hundres of dollars in to warframe every single month, just to be able to have a sense of progress in the game! 

[Urlan]

I can agree with some of the points here. I think the grind has increased, and that the incentive for players to keep playing versus grabbing the new stuff and leaving until the next update is decreasing or staying low. I hope that the announcement from Tennocon will be more player incentive instead of increased grind. Relics also felt like disincentive to keep playing as while a few players do like them more, they are more grindy to run than the old void which t3 survival rotation C aside was usually something to get a team together and run just to get something useful.

[Wrum]

so far as decreased incentive to play goes, this is nothing unusual for mmo's they all tend to reach a point when players only show up for updates and/or dailies.

personally i like the new relic system because i don't need to go hunting for a group, i can just pop in to a public game and have 4 shots at rares each rotation instead of 1.

[Ryme]

Just now, Wrum said:

so far as decreased incentive to play goes, this is nothing unusual for mmo's they all tend to reach a point when players only show up for updates and/or dailies.

personally i like the new relic system because i don't need to go hunting for a group, i can just pop in to a public game and have 4 shots at rares each rotation instead of 1.

But only if you had does the previous investment grind of farming for relics and void traces. The old system allowed for near zero investment, other than willingness to join someone else who already had a key, to farm for whatever it paid out.

[Wrum]

1 minute ago, Ryme said:

But only if you had does the previous investment grind of farming for relics and void traces. The old system allowed for near zero investment, other than willingness to join someone else who already had a key, to farm for whatever it paid out.

im not following your logic?

to get void traces you run fissure missions. just pop a bunch you don't care about get your traces and sell the crud on the market or for ducats.

also again this is an mmo, the god awful grind is par for the coarse in any mmo. if you hate it here you should see wow players do raids for months to get their loot. frankly warframe is rather forgiving in the grind department.

[redeyedtreefrog]

while I don't agree with your stance on relics(I find them to be a very good system in comparison to the old void keys, in that finding squads to run the relic you want is much less elitist[before the relic system, if you weren't a frost or a trinity, good luck finding a t4d team that would take you])

However, with rivens, you've hit the nail on the head, BUT you've left out a very large portion of the RNG. you mentioned having nearly 300 THOUSAND combinations for a riven. That's just for the stats. There's also fluctuations in stat VALUES. two rivens with the same stats at the same mastery rank could still have different values for each of those stats. And that's also affected by the mastery rank of the riven, which is RNG driven. And the weapon a riven is unveiled to be is RNG driven. Getting a riven for the right class of weapons is RNG driven. Even GETTING a riven of any kind is also RNG driven. Not a single aspect about rivens can be controlled by the user, which means that even getting a riven for the weapon you want (and thus getting to the part where you have a one-in-300-thousand chance of getting what you want) is nigh impossible without trading, and trading for rivens, even bad ones, can sometimes cost obscene amounts of platinum (50p isn't even guaranteed to net you a riven for even the worst of weapons, if you're looking for a riven to put on a current meta weapon you'd better ready a 4-digit sum).

Something about rivens needs to change, that's for sure.

[Mother_Pfill]

Just give me some hard S#&$.

[Hoth]

Oh gods, please, add spaces in between your parragraphs ;_;

[Chipputer]

They're not increasing any form of grind. The grind has barely changed but yet people constantly whine and complain about one or two anomalies (the Hema) and act like the grind is so terrible all of a sudden.

Crying out loud, we have items with an 11% drop rate that people are pretending they can't ever get just because RNG isn't quite in their favor.

Rivens are a completely optional aspect that you can ignore with no negative repercussions. That, alone, is enough that they shouldn't bother the individual player. If you feel like investing in them then that's your own prerogative. They have negative balance implications, sure, but so do plenty of other mechanics in the game that rivens only serve to highlight, rather than create.

As for your rant about developers answering and something something, "the game doesn't feel like it's worth playing anymore," all I have to say is that is what happens when you play a game for an extended period of time. Everyone's threshold is different for that. I'm capable of performing the same, monotonous, tasks for long periods of time without getting bored. Others can't do it more than once or twice. It's a personal thing. You feel like the game isn't catering to what you want. That's fine. Dropping that with this nebulous, "there's so many problems, man, like, totally," isn't making your case any better. On the contrary, it's making it seem more like you're just burnt out on grinding without realizing what kind of game you're playing and are throwing out blanket terms to help yourself feel more justified.

Take a break. Come back with fresh eyes. Don't come back at all. It's your life.

[Robolaser]

Who wouldn't get tired and bored after playing the same virtual teddy picker for hundred hours? You can't even take away your hard-won "prizes", they're not yours. They don't even exist. You're free to voice your discontent but, why would the owner give any ? You'll get back soon enough, no worries. And if you don't... well, as the saying goes, there's a s.cker born every minute.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Robolaser

[True_Naeblis]

1 hour ago, BHoth said:

Oh gods, please, add spaces in between your parragraphs ;_;

Quite seriously, this. I'm sure that you have some insightful things to say @(PS4)NicolaiBM but I am not going to dive into that. Present it in a way that makes it easy to read, please.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

8 hours ago, True_Naeblis said:

Quite seriously, this. I'm sure that you have some insightful things to say @(PS4)NicolaiBM but I am not going to dive into that. Present it in a way that makes it easy to read, please.

Not meant for you honestly, it's meant for the devs and if they can read code, they can read this too, probably haven't though

[StinkyPygmy]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Not meant for you honestly, it's meant for the devs and if they can read code, they can read this too, probably haven't though

(Posts on a public forum)

"Its not meant for you so if ya don't like it don't read it"

"The devs read code so why should I make it easy for them to read something that isn't code and have it conform with what is standard, linguistic practice?"

Gotcha. Makes total sense.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

10 hours ago, Wrum said:

im not following your logic?

to get void traces you run fissure missions. just pop a bunch you don't care about get your traces and sell the crud on the market or for ducats.

also again this is an mmo, the god awful grind is par for the coarse in any mmo. if you hate it here you should see wow players do raids for months to get their loot. frankly warframe is rather forgiving in the grind department.

The grind isn't on par with other mmo games. Making that comparison, other mmo games allow you to improve your gear as pleased, so there's a point to the grind, warframe just have the grind and more rng, no actual progress, just luck of the draw every single time you attempt to improve on your riven and the values can't be improve, you can just hope for a better riven than previously. Then DE having the audacity of implying there's a path to the riven you want and honesty any kind of defense of DE, their resent actions, their resent focus points in the game and their resent prices in the game, that's just a slap in the face of every single player in warframe! Start holding DE accountable for their product, it is not actually free anymore, it's expensive and overpriced. 60 platinum for 3 riven slots for example? Forget just unreasonable, that's directly disrespectful, adding a new mod system to the game and then going and making the prices so unbelievable expensive! You can buy a new weapon in trading fir that price!

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

8 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

(Posts on a public forum)

"Its not meant for you so if ya don't like it don't read it"

"The devs read code so why should I make it easy for them to read something that isn't code and have it conform with what is standard, linguistic practice?"

Gotcha. Makes total sense.

Troll point made....... Point made for exactly this forum, better be damn sure it's spelled right and the grammar is perfect, cause if that's off, the point and ideas are bad, right?

[StinkyPygmy]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Troll point made....... Point made for exactly this forum, better be damn sure it's spelled right and the grammar is perfect, cause if that's off, the point and ideas are bad, right?

People being able to actually read and easily comprehend your point is arguably more important then the points themselves. You could make some of the best arguments and have the best ideas in the world, but if people cannot easily understand exactly what you are saying and easily find and reference specific points, then it makes discussion much, much more difficult then it needs to be and also makes your job harder.

There's nothing trolly about what I'm saying. It benefits you as much as it benefits those interested in the topic and those the topic is directed at. If I was kicking up a fuss over you misspelling a word or two yeah, I'd see how you would think i'm trolling and being a pian. This however, is some well intentioned advice despite my sarcasm. I can't help it, sarcasm is my bread and butter.

 

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

2 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

People being able to actually read and easily comprehend your point is arguably more important then the points themselves. You could make some of the best arguments and have the best ideas in the world, but if people cannot easily understand exactly what you are saying and easily find and reference specific points, then it makes discussion much, much more difficult then it needs to be and also makes your job harder.

There's nothing trolly about what I'm saying. It benefits you as much as it benefits those interested in the topic and those the topic is directed at. If I was kicking up a fuss over you misspelling a word or two yeah, I'd see how you would think i'm trolling and being a pian. This however, is some well intentioned advice despite my sarcasm. I can't help it, sarcasm is my bread and butter.

 

If sarcasm is your bread and butter, maybe you aren't suitable to share your well intentions and perhaps it would be far better you made and effort trying to elaborate on the points and raise questions as far as you understanding them correctly. Alternatively, be quiet, because sarcasm isn't helpful in a constructive debate on getting improvements implemented in warframe.

Again, if the developers, whom I doubt is bothering if the forums, finally do read this and have questions as to the understanding of my points, I'm sure they're capable of asking a question too. As far as I'm concerned, as long as they understanding it and is able to read it, then it really doesn't matter what level of understanding the rest of us have to any given post here.

Edited July 6, 2017 by (PS4)NicolaiBM
Afterthought

[Iccotak]

Just make a complete game instead of constantly experimenting.
Stop adding stuff and fix already existing features.
I don't farm for Kuva or Rivens because they are unnecessary and are shoehorned into the game so then you can farm for something.

The last thing I farmed for was Oberon Prime and his gear (Oberon is one of my favorites) and now have no real reason to play.

Stop treating the game like a complete product, it's Not.
Play your game and ask; "What kind of experience do I want when playing it?" and then make the game.

Stop making new Warframes when you already have 30+ to review and balance.
We already have around 300 weapons including variants. (google it)

If I am going give you money then I expect it to go to developing a complete product and not for you to constantly experiment.
Focus on the gameplay.
I would like a story, eventually, but the state of the game right now is not a good time to put that in.

Honestly would prefer it if DE got a publisher and just made the game. I would pay for the complete product.

[Papragu]

17 hours ago, Wrum said:

also again this is an mmo, the god awful grind is par for the coarse in any mmo.

No it is not, just because you never known any better and sadly grind is what MMOs degraded to, doesn't mean that it is normal or we should just accept it or leave if we don't like it.

[Iccotak]

19 hours ago, Wrum said:

also again this is an mmo, the god awful grind is par for the coarse in any mmo. if you hate it here you should see wow players do raids for months to get their loot. frankly warframe is rather forgiving in the grind department.

No, Warframe is a hack & slash game with rpg elements. It is more comparable with Diablo. 
Warframe takes what would normally be an isometric game, and gives it third-person shooter gameplay mechanics. 
The only in-game places to meet dozens of players are in clans and relays.

MMOs generally give you hours of quests to do along with the grind. (But Warframe is in "Beta")
Warframe's focus is cutting down hundreds of enemies and getting better & better gear.

 

[True_Naeblis]

9 hours ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

If sarcasm is your bread and butter, maybe you aren't suitable to share your well intentions and perhaps it would be far better you made and effort trying to elaborate on the points and raise questions as far as you understanding them correctly. Alternatively, be quiet, because sarcasm isn't helpful in a constructive debate on getting improvements implemented in warframe.

Again, if the developers, whom I doubt is bothering if the forums, finally do read this and have questions as to the understanding of my points, I'm sure they're capable of asking a question too. As far as I'm concerned, as long as they understanding it and is able to read it, then it really doesn't matter what level of understanding the rest of us have to any given post here.

Mate, buddy, pal, I can about guarantee that any dev who comes across your post is going to pass it by without giving it a second glance. You know what happens to resumes when companies get them if they're poorly formatted or too long? They get ignored outright. You know what happens to research papers that don't follow the guidelines for formatting & presentation? They get sent back outright, without being evaluated. Funny that you say it's meant for devs, as though you don't realize that there are formatting standards even for code, to make it easy to read, even including reference notes.

People have given you constructive criticism; if you choose to ignore it that's on you.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

55 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

Mate, buddy, pal, I can about guarantee that any dev who comes across your post is going to pass it by without giving it a second glance. You know what happens to resumes when companies get them if they're poorly formatted or too long? They get ignored outright. You know what happens to research papers that don't follow the guidelines for formatting & presentation? They get sent back outright, without being evaluated. Funny that you say it's meant for devs, as though you don't realize that there are formatting standards even for code, to make it easy to read, even including reference notes.

People have given you constructive criticism; if you choose to ignore it that's on you.

That's company research papers, written by people educated in proper grammar. This is a forum meant for the community and if the devs don't respect us enough to read our posts, then that's another point against DE and their dropping care. We're gamers, not an rnd department and DE should really keep that in mind.

[Iccotak]

3 hours ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

That's company research papers, written by people educated in proper grammar. This is a forum meant for the community and if the devs don't respect us enough to read our posts, then that's another point against DE and their dropping care. We're gamers, not an rnd department and DE should really keep that in mind.

look, just edit it so then it is easily readable. Get straight to your points. Space things out. Highlight important points.

I do that with all of my Topics because I want easily digestible information without confusion. Makes the conversation go a lot smoother. 

[Iccotak]

On 7/5/2017 at 11:01 AM, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Playing Warframe lately seems to me, that it leads to more frustrations and disappointments than anything else. There's not much left in the game, to encourage being active in the game and there's not much left to encourage going to the forums either.
The game has too many problems and the developers are too inactive in the forums in general.

I'm going to start out with the Relics and the problems I see in there.
First and biggest problem is the enoumus grind to actually getting that rare reward, the grind of getting 100 void traces, when you have 6-40 drop from opening another relic, I do realize farming for 1 relic gives you other relics, but that's a point I'll get to later in this thread.
Doing the math with the middle of the road to account for RNG, assuming 23 void traces per relic, then you have to open 5 other relics to get enough traces, imagine those days (most days) RNG just isn't in your favour and you get less than 15 for all your relics, that is just an unreasonable amount of grind, for only 10% chance at the rare drop.
AND this is the grind from 1 person, then you still need the 3 other people to go through the same thing, instead of being able to work together and shorten the time considerably and share a relic, like the old void keys.

The next problem with relics is; When you've gone through the grind of making it radiant, improving your chances, you're still left with 50% chance of getting a common item! That is just not reasonable, if you go through grind to improve your chances, then the bare minimum reward should at least be more ducats in the shape of the uncommon item! It is never reasonable to NOT reward work and that is exactly what a common drop from a radiant relic does.

The next problem in the current system is, that if you want a specific relic, lets say the currently un-vaulted Rhino and Mag relics, then you're stuck doing the same mission 100+ times for 10 relics, which you then have to go and make radiant (previous point repeated), and then you're only a quater of the way through.
Some of us actually do have limited play time and cannot spend 7 days just grinding away in a game, then in the end don't even reward that grind very well. Relics needs a more reliable way of dropping specific relics. 

For example: spread the relics out in specific missions and let us know where to get them, obviously with a reasonable drop chance.

I am aware that during this unvaulted period it'll be the same 4 missions on repeat, but the rest of the time, we will have to play all missions, instead of just interception/Hieracon on repeat for neo/axi, IO/Helene for Meso and ODD for Lith.
DE wanted us to spend the majority of our time all over the solar system, but grinding for primes, we spend the majority of our time in those 4 missions and in my opinion, it has NOT given any variation at all. Even worse is, those endless missions is far too happy to give out 1 specific relic more than the others. In short, the relic system is not working and it needs a serious helping hand to become a good system.
 

Next up we have the Rivens.
Only word I can think of to describe them is "Broken" and with the addition of melee rivens, that makes it even more broken.
The way DE described rivens (forgive me for not having the right wordings and the quote on hand), they where supposed to bring life to lesser used weapons, add interesting stats to weapons and make us have a path to to that dream riven. So far rivens meet none of those, not a single one.
They don't have interesting stats, they just have more stats that's already in the game. They don't bring life to lesser used weapons, when they're still making meta weapons more powerfull and they certainly don't have any kind of path to anything other than lottery frustrations.

The chance of getting the riven exactly as you want, your version of a dream riven is in those 0.0001% mods that Rebecca had the nerves to comment about in the resent data mining debate.
You want to avoid them? They're already here and have a huge role in the game as it is! The rivens have a possibility of 24 possible positive or negative rolls, with the addition of not having a stat in the last 2 stat slots. As stats cannot be repeated, the math for a is 24 rolls in the first, 23 in the second, 23 in the 3rd and 22 in the 4th slot, making it 279.312:1 of getting that dream riven. 279.312:1!
There's absolutely nothing reasonable about that number and to say there's a path to that riven, that's just a straight up lie, because it's luck of the draw every single time you cycle a riven and no exclusion of previous rolls, meaning 300 rolls in, the chances aren't 279.012: they're still 279.312:1!

Imagine that you actually wen't and rolled a riven 279.312 times, the amount of kuva you would need for such a task would be 997.507 kuva. With a Kuva Siphon givin 550-700 Kuva, that math alone drops in to the catagory of unreasonable, even with a resource booster, which all of this smells like a driving point for us to go and buy, just to have the imagination of making any kind of progress. Then lets talk about the slot cost for rivens.
That's the next point of rivens that falls in to unreasonable. A weapon slot cost 6 platinum, I know they can only be bought 2 for 12, still makes 1 slot cost 6 platinum. With the amount of weapons in the game, that's still a significan't chunk of platinum if you want them all collected. Rivens cost 20 platinum for each slot (3 for 60), that is not reasonable at all!
There's no way of spinning that to be reasonable, it's more than 3 times the cost of the slot for the weapon! That chunk of platinum is just simply not reasonable and I can say that without actually doing the math! There's simply nothing reasonable about rivens!
And with the addition of melee rivens, it just feels like a method for DE of milking the cow for the last bit at all possible! The gab between melee weapons and primary/secondary weapons is already huge, now adding melee rivens, that gab is going to become even bigger and it is NOT good for the game!

What the riven system desperately needs, is a method of making progress with the rivens we have, rolling singular stats, not the entire thing, that way we can actually have a path to that dream riven, we can make progress! As far as interesting stats, I don't think that will ever happen, as long as we just have base stats to roll, but if the cycling system at least got chanced to the point where we can roll those singular stats, then we're at least better off and have a somewhat working system for rivens. I am aware, that 99% of the rivens would be identical, but that's because 99% of the community want the same thing for their weapons, because that is what makes it the best possible roll in their opinion. Just on a sidenode, if you roll a riven with negative damage, you can actually heal the enemies instead, which makes that riven junk, no matter what the other rolls are, does that at all seem reasonable to anyone, that it's even an option of cycling negative damage?

Then there's the matter of the developers in the Forums.
I am aware that there's getting posted a lot of stuff every single day, but it's so rare I see a moderator or developer actually post anything, the vast majority of the threads, we're getting left with the feeling we don't matter at all and we're posting for the garbage bin!
The absolute best option we as regular players have, is contact a partner or content creator with a brain, who is willing to take the battle that even they have getting through to the developers!
What happened DE?
You used to listen to the community, at least to some extend, but that feeling have long gone and I see players again and again getting frustrated with DE, writing in the chat out of pure frustration and getting kicked and banned for having an opinion at all.
Contacting you at support is a dead end too, we're getting the same standard reply referring to the forums and after enough posts here, without any kind of answer, only a few trolls sitting and shutting down good and intelligent ideas, for what ever reason I can only speculate to.

Another thing you handled poorly is the resent data mining debate, you put the information client side, if you want it kept a secret, keep it to yourself until you're ready to reveal it!
It is naive to think no one is going to data mine Warframe anymore and leak information, it is naive to think you can hide stuff in a game you know gets datamined, they fault of content being revealed early is your own.
Datamining wouldn't even be a thing, if you had started out with reasonable drop chances and transparency in the beginning and I really don't think there's many people trusting you to NOT go back to ridiculous grind figures, considering how much grind you've already added lately.
Let us have data mining, we need it to even understand the weapons and mechanics of this game, because the information you're putting out is again unreasonable. Fix the problem, before forcing the community to remove OUR solution to YOUR mistakes and short-comings!

Please just stop thinking of ways of trying to hide that you're INCREASING the grind in Warframe, to make us spend money in an attempt to decrease that grind, it is unreasonable to the people who can't afford throwing hundreds of dollars in to Warframe every single month, just to be able to have a sense of progress in the game! 

Here is a basic example of an edit. BUT, Honestly you should split these topics into different threads. You have a lot to say.
It makes it easier to tackle one thing at a time in thread discussion when it focuses on one topic.
1 for Relics
2 for Rivens
3 for Forums/Community

Outline the topic. Do Bullet Points to highlight the content. Space it out. Get straight to each point and don't waste time filling it with rant. 
Otherwise people are going to spend more time criticizing your delivery than the actual topic.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Iccotak

[Dreddeth]

Oh sh** did I just accidentally necro a thread?

Edited July 7, 2017 by Dreddeth
Don't ask.