Chains of Harrow: Update 21.4.0

[-W0lf-]

nice

[EnderDDT]

For Hydroid, I'll start with the bad first:

It would be good if you could control from which angle the Tempest Barage (his 1) came down from. There are times when obsticles can get in the way, though that isn't often a problem.

And that really is the most negative thing I have to say about this rework.

His biggest problems, specifically in some of the negative aspects of range on his 1 and 4 abilities and the non interactivity of his 3, were taken care of very well and without changing the basic nature of the abilities. Also, the new graphics are just plain cool. The addition of the craken peaking up during his 4 is just over the top. Very nicely done. Furthermore the changes make his passive useful and help to clarify his build priorities, two things that weren't even the main focus of the need for his rework.

The biggest measure of the rework, though is probably the fact that I never invested the time and energy into Hydroid in order to even put a reactor and even a single forma on him: simply because he wasn't fun to play and before he did nothing that wasn't done better by some other frame. Thanks to this rework I actually plan to use him, likely I'll invest at least a reactor even before his prime version comes out (despite me knowing that he is the next prime scheduled). That is how much better he has become than he was before.

Here is to hoping that the Zephyr rework is just as good. Whomever was in charge of this update deserves a pat on the back (and possibly a raise ;) )

[EnderDDT]

1 hour ago, toafarmer said:

Capture missions also need to be fixed. A few days ago, when I was playing a capture, the objective changed to "kill them all", but suddenly we had dozens of capture targets to kill, all running to the exit. Mission failed because we couldn't take down all the 117 or so corpus targets.

I was in this one, it was pretty bad.

[mitokens]

This is just the sort of thing I was hoping to see in a Hydroid rework. But there's still the problem of his puddle not playing nice in a team setting.

Maybe you could try setting it up so that enemies are only pulled into undertow waist-high? Or set it up so that any damage to the puddle also damages the enemies inside it? That way allies could still help deal damage, and Hydroid doesn't have to worry about hogging the glory.

Edited August 11, 2017 by mitokens

[Arniox]

8 hours ago, TheDarkStarChimaera said:

Request #14 for some acknowledgment of this:

Cycuta Prime sigil from Saryn Prime Access (and according to others the Velorum Prime from Nova Prime Access, and even FOUNDER Sigils) still aren't properly metallic, contrary to Update 21 patch notes.

The textures on this cosmetic have been broken for almost a year AT LEAST.

Could this please get looked at again?

 

Yeah, this bug makes me stop using the sigil cause they look so bad. :(

[Arniox]

8 hours ago, Tacritan said:

That ability should be completely removed and replaced.

Imagine hydroid with exalted weapon, f.e anchor, and the frame would swing it with chain.

Fnck yes, I would have loved an exalted weapon. I was really hoping they would get rid of undertow, or tidal surge. They're so useless. Or add armor stacks to tidal surge or something. This rework is kinds meh. Still doesn't make hydroid any more enjoyable. The Oberon rework is what i expected. Something to make hydroid amazing again

[Arniox]

8 hours ago, Akeiresh said:

As a person who really enjoys the fashionframe aspect of this game, all I have to say is this.

Why are the tentacles transparent? I want to swing my pink tentacles around, darn it!

It looks a thousand times better this way. Although, they should add something in to make his abilities take on energy colour more

[InquisitorMaximus]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Chains of Harrow: Update 21.4.0

 

• Hydroid tentacles will now seek out nearby enemies and attempt to slam on top of them rather than just always flailing randomly and hoping they hit something.

So no more this:

 

[Arniox]

8 hours ago, GA-Bulletproof said:

Tempest Barrage needs some kind of buff e.g. Strip enemy armor of a certain %

- remove tidal surge and replace it with something actually useful e.g. water trail like nezhas firewalk but enemies that come in touch get armor removed or hydroid gets a buff of some kind that has to do with the enemy that came in to contact

- Undertow should make hydroid replenish his health when enemies are pulled into it. Some form of regeneration should happen. He is basically "rebuilding" himself

- Tentacle swarm needs to be completely reworked: Maybe a Kraken that fights beside you like Atlas Minions do

 

At this point the changes are really minor and not really anywhere close to what Oberon has become.

100% agree with this. He still feels weak and boring as hell. Not something worth playing like what Oberon became 

[Arniox]

8 hours ago, GA-Bulletproof said:

Tempest Barrage needs some kind of buff e.g. Strip enemy armor of a certain %

- remove tidal surge and replace it with something actually useful e.g. water trail like nezhas firewalk but enemies that come in touch get armor removed or hydroid gets a buff of some kind that has to do with the enemy that came in to contact

- Undertow should make hydroid replenish his health when enemies are pulled into it. Some form of regeneration should happen. He is basically "rebuilding" himself

- Tentacle swarm needs to be completely reworked: Maybe a Kraken that fights beside you like Atlas Minions do

 

At this point the changes are really minor and not really anywhere close to what Oberon has become.

100% agree. He feels so boring still and useless. Nothing on comparison to what Oberon became. Hydroid still feels like a wet noodle. 

[rosento]

I like the changes to hydroid skills i do more synergies and stuff but the movement from 2 while in undertow seems a bit on the low side... but the animations now look sooooo bland compared to before, reminds me of equinox and his 4, just squigles all over the place that really almost blend in with the background except the tentacles which for some reason almost turned a stark white.  More realistic? maybe.. but now they are just ugly to look at, btw i liked my colors blue, like water.

 

I like charging the skills, but why not also charge tidal surge? and make the things predicitable like a charge bar that shows the tiers of charge or whatever, and make the final charges epic, but expensive, and you know maybe that could be hydroids thing.  Like full charge barrage launches 3 sets in nearby random areas, or a massive wall of pushing water from surge, and maybe that kraken you were talking about, as like maybe a burst dmg attack from tentacle swarm at the begining of the cast

Edited August 11, 2017 by rosento

[shofikenzo]

Cool thanks

[FrostedMike]

But we can still get a roll for pistol kills missions challenge in archwing?

[Arniox]

9 hours ago, Oriot said:

Thank you for the fixes, here are some more bugs that need fixing: 

1. When you swap to staticor no ammo is showing until you fire atleast 1 bullet. After you swap and swap back again the ammo will not show untill you shoot atleast 1 bullet.

2. When I'm leveling pretty much anything in game there are notifications that my frame/weapon/sentinel etc. has reached a certain level. But when I press TAB it shows that that item is several levels above than was shown in the notification... Really gets on my nervs when my warframe lvl is 11 and it shows that I just reached lvl 7 (Meaning that I can't use my 4th ability yet)..

That's bonus xp. It means you get that xp, if and only IF you finish the mission. So that xp isn't technically in your frame or weapon yet. 

[._.-._.]

10 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed jumping off the map as Operator in the Corpus Outpost tileset killing you and then soft locking you if you try to switch to your Operator again.

Just did it on the index and then enjoyed the permanent death of operator

[Death_Master_]

Hydroid nerfs:

Tempest barrage range nerfed to 10m and not increasing properly with mods.

Tidal surge range cripled to ridiculous 6m.

Undertow range nerfed to ridiculous 4m and NOT increasing properly with mods.

 

[Zero273]

about hydroid rework....
its not like am mad but, DE introduce hydroid with his augment as resouce vending machine and then strip him from that (not completely) however, he still slow and in public game its pointless to pick him, he have no ability to kill enemy fast within wide area (compare to other warframe), 200 armor ok cool, but why should I pick him when we have other guys with higher armor and a similar movement speed?
compare to frost - chroma , almost similar movement speed he is softie, don't get me wrong I know that each warframe have role to play but like old oberon he was joker (little peice of each part) in a way and the rework was amazing, in the other hand hydroid was only good for farming and crowd control with pre-made squad. so I think either give him back his farming power(maybe he will get the respect he deserve or used to have) or give him more armor or let him move faster.

[Noctis_The_Buckethead]

For the Hydroid Rework i Suggest restoring the base ranges of undertow and tentacle swarm(yes people noticed the range nerf on the base range), changing the damage type back to finisher type damage, and maybe adding a sort of cold proc to 1,2 and 3 to make the enemies get up slower, maybe add a 30-50% chance for a small-medium sized slash proc when an enemy is in undertow and tenticle swarm is active (for themaic purposes to make it look like the monster is eating some of the enemies) and a tweak to the charge mecanic of tenticle swarm (it feels too slow and clunky even with natural talent) but being able to move with tidal surge when using undertow was a nice touch, maybe buff the speed of the base movement in undertow by a little bit to maybe 50-70% of the base walking speed, also lots of people have though that being able to bullet jump out of undertow would be neat., also maybe make the damage scale by a small multiplyer rather than a 10 damage per sec increase, like 5% damage per sec that can scale up to 10% with high enough power strength (250% for example), also adding proc immunity in undertow would be nice but not necessary. overall some good macanics were introduced but he is still not very viable, but with some minor tweaks he could be a decent CC frame,

PS, a small say 1-4% life steal on enemies killed by a ability (undertow and/or Tentacle swarm would add a bit more survivability)(never mind life steal is a bit much)

EDIT: also you guys did a good job at making him a bit more fun to use but as i said earlyer his stats could use a bit of tweaking, but still so far goodjob but more needs to be done to make him more useful to squads and scale better

Edited August 12, 2017 by eyf101
forgot to mention something

[JARVII]

Como habitualmente ocurre cualquier revisión la mayoría de las veces el resultado no es bueno, pienso que "adaptar" warframes a como está el juego a la actualidad es un buen trabajo, pero por desgracia la mayoría de los cambios nunca van a ser buenos hacia el jugador.

Este caso en concreto es exactamente mismo caso de ash.

Para los jugadores exclusivos de Hydroid enhorabuena, teneis remodelado un warframe hasta con mas armadura, felicidades.

Para los jugadores que usan Hydroid prácticamente con su mod de sindicato, que pienso son la mayoría, llorar, porque su poder 4 ha sido nerfeado (aunque ha sido de una forma mas justa para nivelar el uso de mod en el warframe).

El uso anteriormente de Hydroid simplemente era divertido, no era un warframe que se usase para misiones de alto nivel. Ahora con un pequeño cambio de mods todavía será jugable. Y podemos seguir usándolo al menos. Gracias por no ser tan duro con él.

. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As usually happens any review most of the time the result is not good, I think that "adapt" warframes to the game is currently a good job, but unfortunately most changes will never be good towards the player.

This particular case is exactly the same as ash.

For the exclusive players of Hydroid congratulations, you have remodeled a warframe up with more armor, congratulations.

For those players who use Hydroid practically with their syndicate mod, which I think are most, cry, because their power 4 has been nerfeado (although it has been in a more just way to level mod use in the warframe).

The previous use of Hydroid was simply fun, it was not a warframe that was used for high level missions. Now with a small change of mods it will still be playable. And we can continue to use it at least. Thank you for not being so hard on him.

 

[Shamshire]

The Hydroid changes feel like a step in the right direction but not quite there.  I played around with a few different builds and couldn't find anything that really made all of his powers click.

I like that the powers are a lot more flexible now and can even be used while in Undertow.  While I think all of his powers need further work, my single biggest complaint with the frame is: being a puddle isn't fun.  I don't think the goal of that ability should be to stay in it as long as possible.  While I like some thoughts, like removing Curative Undertow and letting Hydroid heal by draining HP from enemies...end of the day, I don't think being a Murder Puddle will ever be fun.

My favorite change in the rework is that Tidal Surge now pulls enemies along for the ride instead of just ragdolling everything.  I had fun on some survival maps using Tidal Surge to push enemies into a big group against a wall and following up with an AoE.  Enemies will still ragdoll at the end so currently you must hit a wall to keep them grouped.  This idea got me thinking about how Undertow functions.  

Currently, If something is Undertowed (if you will), as soon as Hydroid moves from their location, they are freed.  So I'm not seeing a reason to use Tidal Surge while in Undertow...I just free the people I had trapped.  And I can't stop my Tidal Surge if I'm already a puddle so I can't even aim it at a new group without re-casting Undertow.  So what if instead Undertow allowed Hydroid to Roomba-up enemies?  Using Tidal Surge and Undertow together, Hydroid could potentially suck up a bunch of enemies then dump them somewhere for his team to follow up with AoE attacks.  Hard for me to say if taking the time to group enemies up is worth it very often in a fast-paced game like Warframe, but it would give him a unique role within the game.  

Undertow, Tidal Surge a few times to collect enemies, Tidal Surge back to the group, cancel Undertow, everyone gets their murder on.  I could also see some use on a Defense mission that's going sour--as enemies cluster up on the pod, Hydroid could turn on Roomba-mode and move the enemies a safer distance to buy some time.  I'm sure some balances would be needed, like greater energy drain on Undertow as you carry more people so Hydroid couldn't just puddle all the spawns and hold them there for an extended period.

Just a thought.  Maybe not a good one, but I really want to be a Roomba.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Shamshire

[Danyelius]

Plz fix the Range in Undertow. Also I need to hold down the Key for his ulty for like 3 seconds to get the same range as before. Imho Hydroid got nerfed massively. I dont care about his firest and second ability. And I don´t want to be forcest to use them because they become somehow mediocre, but still useless. 

Acording to Brozime his third abillity went from 18 meters to 4, and his fourth abillity from 20 meters to 5 meters. The mobility buffs and tiny damage buffs really don´t make up for this. That really should be adressed in patchnotes I think. I would like to cheer for DE and really do appreciate the work they put in the game. The story with vacuum range nerf is repeating.

Edited August 11, 2017 by -dicht.Dani-

[Benjamin_Smaridge]

any news on tennogen

[DoomFruit]

Fixes missing from this update:

-Hema mutagen sample cost is 10x higher than it should be.

-Sigils on right shoulder are rotated when the right dendra shoulder plate is equipped.

[Shuggendo]

This rework is nice! Maybe Hydroid won't be top pick anytime soon, but he definitely needed those buffs and he is objectively better no matter how you look at it.

The only main quips that remain personally are how Hydroid still makes it hard for his allies to followup on his CC. Undertow makes enemies "immune" to allies, and tentacles still ragdoll enemies around like no tomorrow. For the latter... I think simply making the tentacles able to be attacked by allies, making them redirect the damage to targets stuck to them would fix the issue. For undertow well, I imagine making enemies susceptible to AoEs would at least help some.

But really, thanks for the Davy Jones buff, definitely glad we can -move- within Undertow now.

[kyori]

Network Not Responding has pop up more frequently after this hotfix. Forced logged out.

Edited August 11, 2017 by kyori