[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[Rfus]

Outside of the buffs to his armour, the rest of the "rework" is primarily cosmetic and quality of life changes. Nothing about his kit has been fundamentally changed or improved, he can just cast abilities while in Undertow now.

With his new Kraken visual and the ability to cast while in puddle form in mind, I'd like to propose a few complimentary changes to make this combination of abilities far more fun and effective.

First, instead of sucking enemies into your Undertow, have them instead be partially submerged at waist level and struggle fruitlessly to escape. On its own this isn't a huge improvement, however, it it maintains its current functionality without removing your team's ability to interact with them. The real proposal lies in combining it with your Tentacle Swarm.

Casting Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm while outside of Undertow should act as it did previously; summon a bunch of tentacles for a duration in the target area. When cast while in puddle form, however, the Kraken is instead summoned at your position and moves with you in Undertow, effectively transforming you into the Kraken itself. While the Kraken is active, tentacles sprouting from your Undertow will pull surrounding enemies into your puddle and submerge them entirely as it currently does. While they are submerged by the Kraken, it will devour them beneath the Undertow, dealing massive damage as long as they're submerged. For the duration of Tentacle Swarm, enemies would be trapped beneath your Undertow, even while moving away from their initial entry position.

In addition to this proposed change, it also offers the possibility of new complimentary functionality to his other abilities as well. Tempest Barrage could instead leave small Undertow puddles beneath each barrage for a short duration. When combined with his active Tentacle Swarm Kraken, all enemies afflicted would be spontaneously submerged and subjected to the Kraken's damage. Tentacles could also be summoned at these smaller stationary Undertows at random to pull in nearby enemies for the duration.

Tidal Surge could function as it does now, with the addition of carrying your Kraken along with the active Undertow. Additionally, Tidal surge could also leave behind additional strips of Undertow puddle for the same short duration as the aforementioned Tempest Barrage puddles.

Leaving your Undertow during an active Tentacle Swarm would submerge the player-controlled Kraken but the improved Undertow effect would persist for the duration of the Tentacle Swarm. Re-entering Undertow during an active Tentacle Swarm would simply cause the Kraken and its immediate tentacles to reemerge.

This would open up Hydroid players to a variety of build options and playstyles. One build might put full emphasis on the Kraken's damage by maximizing its duration and strength while another might focus on spreading Tempest Barrage and Tidal Surge puddles over as much area as possible via duration and range in order to maximize CC coverage.

These proposed changes not only fit Hydroid thematically as a terrifying monstrosity from the depths, but it would also further compliment the existing changes made thus far. The current Kraken visual addition is thoroughly underutilized as it only appears for a few brief seconds before disappearing; the proposed changes would put much greater emphasis on it.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Rfus
Grammar

[DBugII]

What the rework fixed:

- Hydroid being useless in all mission types.

What the rework didn't fix:

- Everything else.

Hydroid is still a walking nerf gun and a subpar/mediocre frame post-rework. The only major improvement is the fun factor. Hydroid's scaling is still non-existent, except now his abilities more reliably crowd-control things which is more of a QoL change than an actual improvement. The only take away is we now have a frame which can CC someone reliably and take more than 2 shots before being downed - An improvement, but not a real fix for a frame which has struggled for relevance since its release.

[DeathGold]

2 hours ago, Lyravain said:

In the words of Rob (who I don't always agree with, but I agree with on this): If old Hydrod was chocolate, they made him into a chocolate cake. If you like chocolate, you'll like the rework. If you don't like chocolate, you were never going to like Hydroid period.

i liked the old one ... i didn't like the new one ...

1 hour ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

Also, lets not forget that when Excalibur was reworked he had a lot of fans. Still, Super Jump was removed and Exalted Blades was added. Limbo had a lot of fans, too. He had Rift Walk removed and they gave him Rift Surge instead. You can remove and add abilities and STILL have the theme of a frame survive intact. 

i don't understand you mean hydroid have no fan ? well why people are complaining about it ?

Edited August 12, 2017 by DeathGold

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

1 hour ago, TERA96 said:

So McGamerCZ gave me an idea for Undertow where I commented 'Well, if DE were to buff undertow, maybe make it a passive where when Hydroid crouches, he turns into a puddle, kinda like Limbo's rift dash. Because I had an image like Hydroid can poke half of his body out of the puddle and shoot around, and when he 'felt threatened', he can just dive back into his little puddle.'

 

Here's the image I imagined

Or let undertow be invisible to enemies that would be great and useful without breaking the ability. Unless they are Karcashi sensai.

Edited August 12, 2017 by (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson

[AlphaPHENIX]

I suggest you rework that title.

[TheGrimCorsair]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_Noctis said:

Simply put DE, I am happy with the Quality of Life improvement done to Hydroid, this is how I would move foward with updating Hydroid.

1. Barrage is a good ability when it hits, however that doesnt happen often, to improvethis I would let range mods modify the size of the impact on a         50-60% increase in radious, and increase the drop hit rate to double the curent hits per second to maximize CC.

2. Undertow should be affected by range mods to be a castable field with duration+ efficiency affecting energy per second. Give it an A.I. grab of an enemy every 2 seconds, and add an ability like Libo has on movement to "Dive" into and out of undertow and leave the ability of draging enemies in with our water spydiweb. This gives us the Undertow invincibility with the proper mobility, but also allowing Hydroid a bigger precense in the field by not beying constrained inside the puddle all the time.

3. Change the synergy of Tentacles with Undertow to have it do constant Finisher damage if cast in Undertow with the casted amount of tentacles repeatedlly shooting in and out of the water for the duration with our Kraken Steve in the middle of undertow.

4. Tidal surge is Perfect. It can still move Undertow with the ever spouting tentacles on it at the same range and speed as is now.

5. Make Hydroid's passive give a less than 10% dmg resistance water armor buff to himself and allies if they are within 5 meters of one of his castable abilities.

Not a part of the rework recomendation, we should be able to colour Steve the Kraken as part of our fashion frame choices and the tentacles should be more Steve flesh  than water, it looks suspicipus that we get a Kraken head and non Kraken Tentacles.

1. Barrage already has this. +Range increase both the size of the area Barrage can affect as well as the explosion range of the falling projectiles. If you channel the full full duration you can to cast 1, it also significantly increases how fast and how many projectiles fall.

 

2-3. You're not supposed to be spending a lot of time in Undertow and giving it more area of effect and more reason to spend time in it is not good design as it makes you completely invulnerable. Although, it could gain those things at the cost of the invulnerability it offers, although this would be a net loss for actually playing Hydroid.

 

4. No comment.

 

5. Would rather just keep the passive is with the following added: Max number of tentacles of 5, and a 100% chance to spawn a tentacle on a lethal ground finisher.

[FriarTuck]

Can we have our own "Ima freaking wave!" roll? Just visual change or maybe with built-in Tidal Surge.

[Xolgys]

agree, that title is most misleading...u mean BUFF hydroid not nerf him lmao

[PsiWarp]

I love the idea of becoming the Kraken itself (Transference signal strong~). Undertow is already like Hydroid's exalted form, but it can be so much more badass turning into a space lake monster. To make it feel smooth, I would like Hydroid to be able to move more quickly in Undertow + Tentacle Swarm active, like a shark prowling for prey.

The amount of puddles and tentacles might cause performance issues in the long run, but if they figured it out with Nezha's Fire Walker, I'm sure they can figure out the water as well.

Edited August 12, 2017 by PsiWarp

[Silly_Dili]

So I've been playing around with Hydroid a bit, and I love the Stat increase. He feels more like he looks. Ability wise, that kraken yo! <3 However, My main concern with this Utility frame is the Undertow ability. You really did your job on making it more flexible and better, BUT.. I'm not really into playing a tanky frame and then turning into an invincible puddle to start casting abilities..

My solution, is to make undertow a castable area. Hydroid could jump in and hide consuming energy / second like he does now, but you could have a an active puddle swallowing enemies that pass on it, and still be able to deal damage with weapons alternativly.

Thanks for listening, I'm just leaving suggestions here :)

[potiisbest]

I see that peapole have argue with the rework , because who used hydroid for farming that is a bit pain of the range nerf , i think there will be a very good solution for this , make it an abbility like embers 4. , you running ion the map and the tentacles will apear and murder the enemies , sound like a bit op  but ember isnt op too , and it will be a duration based skill unlike the world on fire , what do you guys think ?

 

[potiisbest]

I see that peapole have argue with the rework , because who used hydroid for farming that is a bit pain of the range nerf , i think there will be a very good solution for this , make it an abbility like embers 4. , you running ion the map and the tentacles will apear and murder the enemies , sound like a bit op  but ember isnt op too , and it will be a duration based skill unlike the world on fire , what do you guys think ?

[potiisbest]

I see that peapole have argue with the rework , because who used hydroid for farming that is a bit pain of the range nerf , i think there will be a very good solution for this , make it an abbility like embers 4. , you running ion the map and the tentacles will apear and murder the enemies , sound like a bit op  but ember isnt op too , and it will be a duration based skill unlike the world on fire , what do you guys think ?

[potiisbest]

4 hours ago, windrow1 said:

Dear [DE], hydriod is one of the coolest warframe yet, pirates are fricking cool (my first language isn't english so there might be some miss spelling) but there are some problems with him so we could play him, while i see where you are deracting him, you need to twick his abuilties in there core to make them work.

tempest barrge: i don't care about it being random i care about it being too random, if i see an enemy, i would like to point the abuilty at him and him to knock prone like it spose to do but in a fast pase game when you need to wait 2 seconds for it to start, and even then it might miss the enemy, you might as well shot a gun or somthing. so i think you should make the barrge come quicker and make the area of where the barrge is going to land smaller for better aim of the abuilty

tidel surge: there are a lot of problems with using "dash" abuilties, but this one is ok, the only problem is that the wave makes the enemys fly away and if you had enemys in undertoe they don't come with you. so that what i think you should fix in it

undertoe: idea is cool but being a pudel is very.... sorry for saying it but it looks stupid, needs a change in how it looks and it drains way to much energy for what is does, it fair but if you can't use your weapons and you just sit there it's not fun

and last, tentcole sworm: YOU MADE A SICK FISH THING AND IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING? make him bite, even if it's weak make him bite cause it's cool

I see that peapole have argue with the rework , because who used hydroid for farming that is a bit pain of the range nerf , i think there will be a very good solution for this , make it an abbility like embers 4. , you running ion the map and the tentacles will apear and murder the enemies , sound like a bit op  but ember isnt op too , and it will be a duration based skill unlike the world on fire , what do you guys think ?

[Autongnosis]

Personally my only qualm with the revisit lies with his 4th.

First, that Kraken head looks so awesome but does nothing. It breaks my heart </3 Imagine how awesome it'd have been to have the tentacle pick up enemies, smash them about for a while, and the feed them to the mouth where they would be digested? 

Second, the tentacles still flab about way too fastand randomly. They are smart now, but the problem of firing on grabbed enemies remained. They should either root the enemies in place and constrict them, or just move a LOT slower to allow us to fire at them. Cirrently it's a lot like the old Bladestorm and Tornadoes, where you're actively hampering your and your team's ability to deal weapon damage to targets under your ability. 

 

There are some other things but i think those are bugs and not features, mainly around the fact that undertow and tidal surge not always keep the enemies inside the puddle/close to you. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Autongnosis

[Autongnosis]

Some finetuning things i'd like to see after playing him a while:

• Tempest barrage should work like Tentacle Swarm. Quick cast costs 12.5 and charged cast 25. It would do wonders for Hydroid's energy efficiency. 
• Tentacles still flap about way too fast, shooting at grabbed targets is still a pain. They really should slow down a bit, or even better just root the enemy in place and crush them instead of flapping them around. 
• Both Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm should start immediately even when charging them up and then ramp up if you keep the key pressed imo. 

Some random things i don't know how feasible that are not simple touch ups i'd like:

• The head of the kraken should be used for something... IE, similar to Effigy, the head could open and inhale periodically, maybe slowing and ragdolling enemies towards it periodically. 
• Puddle could be interesting if it could be charged as well. Tap cast same as it is now, charged cast instead drops the puddle at your feet but you don't enter it. Enemies on it are slowed quagmire style instead of digested. Could be interesting. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)Z_GrateWhiteFox]

I've got to say, this rework seems uninspired, I think a better rework would be combining his 2 and 3 moving his 4 down give him a new 4. Say a type of Exalted tentacle that mimics his attacks, he melees they melee, he shoots they shoot water bults. And as for his puddle, because i still like the idea of it, make it a dome that the enemies are suspended in so your allies can kill them or at the very lest kill the priority targets in the puddle.  I really want to like Hydroid  because his prime looks phenomenal and i don't want him to end up just becoming MR fodder. Anywho those are my thoughts on it. Thanks for the years of fun so far, I look forward to more years of fun.

 

[Cytobel]

7 hours ago, FoxFX said:

 

Would you suggest removing the random nature of Tempest Barrage then and turn the ability into a larger explosion barrage that will attack a single point but at a slower rate?

I might go with two layers to the attack:  the first would be a fairly standard barrage of random blasts, and the second would be a targeted layer that fires at enemies specifically, but not as frequently.

[Hallykon]

i see what you did there.. because hydroid is a 'walking nerf gun'

mildly misleading title there lmao.

he does need an actual rework rather than minor qol and stat boosts, similar to how ash got reworked. i wish we had more good reworks like excalibur or limbo.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

uh..CC scales endlessly.

hydroid is a cc frame.

Reworks are not aimed at making a frame popular.  They are aimed at improving the base kit.  usually due to out dated design.  Limbo being the exception.  They primarily add synergy and qol fixes.  Both of which happened with hydroids rework.  There are some minor adjustments that can be had.  but overall he's a lot better now.

[(PSN)wts13bb1]

What do you think about the nerfs to his range on his 3 and 4? They changed his 3 from 18 meters base to 4 and his ult from 20 meters base 5. I think they should maybe change this back and only allow Hydroid to move with tidal surge while in undertow and allow him to still charge his ult for more tentacles but for significantly less bonus range. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 hours ago, DeathGold said:

hey so first of all it's more like a stat increase and a range nerf than a rework , the synergy is nice if it wasn't to his most boring  ability "puddle" a lot of people are saying he's good now but all i see  is a useless puddle that now can move you have "a tentacle" that grab enemies when you click at an energy cost he don't have infinite range so he's like the replacement of his old range but more energy hungry .. Just why ? his damage increase per second  ohhh so he's supposed to do more damage ? well 10 more damage won't help me his ult is now also range nerfed (from 20 to 5 meter lmao) and cost more energy to have the old result his 1 is still useless without the augment (and since augments aren't supposed to be an obligation to have a result this is very bad) the synergies are just not that useful when you compare to the old hydroid "you can cast your 1 while in undertow" i could cast it while i'm out and then jump into undertow no difference "you can move in undertow" yeah and lose more energy so i can't use my other spells "you can group your ult tentacles into undertow" is that supposed to be a sort of a "buff" ? coz  it's not i need them to be more spaced so they cover a larger area his "tidal surge" should be like limbo rift walk but with an energy cost and only in undertow and replacing with a better skill like something that could use the useless "kraken" head we have , feel free to disagree with me but just tell me why you do

Revisit*

yeah.  And the rest of saryn's kit pre rework was boring sans maybe molt.  So was mags magnetize ability.  DE with reworks/revisits always aim to add synergy and make lesser used powers more used.  So hydroids puddle being the main focus for synergy makes sense with their revisits/reworks from the past.

It's hardly useless.  especially with how easy it is to get in and out of.  and how mobile it is.  and flexible.  One of the things I absolutely despised about pre rework was that leaving puddle with enemies alive was a good way to die because they recovered faster than you.  now that you can jump/roll out of it that isn't an issue.

Tentacle grab can nab people farther out compared to max range pre rework puddle.  so it's not covering for the range nerf and forcing you to fork more energy for the same of what you had before.  It's a buff.  end of discussion.

actually if you've got good duration and efficiency you'll kill 30-50 enemies pretty easily with it.  Power strength is better is you want more damage out of your 4.  But while i'm not against them buffing puddles damage I don't think it's needed.  Hydroid has never been about damage dealing.  he's been about cc (support too if counting augments.)

The point is you can be a lot safer now while using all of your abilities because puddle works with all of the other abilities.  You don't do fantastic damage.  nor do you have amazing survivability.  so puddle and it's new synergies are huge.

The tighter grouping while in puddle with the tentacles isn't a universal buff.  But it IS something people have been asking for.  it's why narrow minded hydroid was so damn popular.  and with the ability to charge it up for more range means the player doesn't have to rely on a mod.  and has more options in game.

[.-KG-..-JaJeKa-.]

In my point of view Hydroid is still to easy to kill and some of the skills need an rework.

His passiv shoud be change cause i create more then enough tentacles with the ulti. My suggestion is to switch it into an passiv that bullets deal less dmg cause water absorbs... and beam/laser based weapons also (those values could be different)

Skills:

Tempest Barage: Still deals not enough dmg even charged (or need all strenght mods equipt) and is only somehow usefull with Corroding Barage and only against armored enemys. The attack could be more focus for excample an circle which is affected by range mods or an completly other way: change it into an water gun/water gatling that hit into the direction you watch, skill could be affectetd by duration mods.

Tidal Surge: The change is ok to wipe/clean an specific point but you need to get out in the end or pull the enemys into Undertow. Otherwise this could end in trouble ^^. My sugestion is only to increase the knockdown time after the skill.

Undertow: I like the new way Undertow now works, maybe tweak al little bit the dmg enemys take in Undertow. Maybe making Undertow also accessable for teammates if the want to get out of the line of fire... (via "x"...)

Tentacle Swarm: I did not test all builds (for example full strengh) but some this still do not really feel different and with strenght between 150-200 it does not really feel that the charged att hit harder. But this is only one thing, I played Hydroid in different places (Sortie yesterday, Hydron and also an Corpus Mission) and it still seems the the Ulti doe not hit enemys even when it target them and start the skill. That means i had to start the skill multiple times (maybe more tweaks in the targeting system). Maybe also an change like in Tempest Barrage in a way that the Damageoutput is more focused in an special place/direction.

Greets from Germany to all Tennos and DE

Edited August 12, 2017 by NaturalBornStoned

[Burning_Crisis]

Im sorry, But this is not a range nerf, the only range they adjusted that really makes a difference is for his undertow, his tentacle swarm on the other hand is like his first ability. Charge it up and it increases in power and range. The range is definantly much farther with the new Hydroid

 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I think Hydroid's CC needs to be improved. Sure it stops enemies in their tracks but his Undertow and his Tentacles makes those CCed enemies really hard to kill. He can run the clock down, though but not as good as Limbo can. Limbo can at least regenerate his energy back endlessly.