[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[FoxFX]

26 minutes ago, leadwolf1 said:

I actually kind of like that idea. But yours sounds more like a frost globe, how about this, the basic structure of a nullifier dome able to move just like they do. Not to slow down the movement of the team, as hydroid move the slowing and allies can do the same thing. give it duration  or damage strength or both, have it scale, same concept when nullifiers keep a bunch of enemies in so we can not attack the inside and when we pop it out come a barrage of enemies at us, only in this water dome they can get killed by the team. now it is mobile to the point even the critic's will have a hard time arguing with.

. this is the pirate controlling the sea itself, commanding it to move with him or something like that. but your way is ok as long as it does a better job slowing than the globe, it seems some still move pretty fast in it.

I'll write up details on this Undertow "Water Globe" soon

[Tentaculat]

Tentacles should lift and hold enemies in place instead of throwing them around. If a tentacle it's free it should sink below groud and find the nearest enemy inside the ability's area and grab it.

If you want puddle to stay then make it so it'll slow down enemies without sinking them, similar to Frost's Ice wave impedance

Barrage is still unlreliable since it still falls randomly and constantly misses or hits random cover

 

Overall, Hydroid's problems are his unreliability and the fact that his CC makes things harder to kill instead of easier. Neither of these problems were fixed and by focusing on puddle synergy they were arguably made worse.

[Vorcov]

So a lot has been covered already in the previous 33 pages, and quite a bit of it is what I was already feeling. To toss in what I feel for Hydroid:

 

Passive

• I very rarely use this, but it's nice to be able to spawn one if you're out of energy. Perhaps this could be a low percentage chance on a regular melee attack as well? I feel a lot of people don't use this, or just completely forget about it in the heat of battle.

 

Tempest Barrage

• I have always thought of this as a cool ability with nice visuals, but I very rarely use it. I never personally found it strong enough to use.

 

Tidal Surge

• Always loved this ability, glad to see it has remained intact. I have seen some ideas of it being merged with Undertow, and I think that would be awesome, but that would mean significant Dev time to create a new ability to take its place.

 

Undertow

• The undocumented range reduction (from 18m to 4m?) has hit my play style pretty hard. Curative Undertow is now much less effective (which was quite good for the Defection mission type). I noticed something was off when using it, as I wasn't able to heal other Warframes from the same range I used to be able to. I got caught up in the fun of being able to drag enemies into the puddle that I didn't think too much into it at first. I imagine this was done due to the fact that we can now pull enemies inside, but the amount it has been reduced by hurts the ability quite a bit.
• Could we perhaps latch onto allies to heal them from outside the puddle range, if its range will not be either reverted or increased from its current size?
• I absolutely love the new textures for this, they are quite beautiful.
• I love the damage buff that this has been given. I've seen a lot of people complaining that it's still not strong enough, but nevertheless it still does a lot more than it used to. Previously, it was really only viable to detain enemies until being ready to dispatch of them in another way (other team members with more powerful Warframes, weapons etc.).
• I love being able to move without exiting the puddle, albeit very slowly without dumping energy into 2.
• Casting other abilities while in the puddle form is quite cool, however I feel that the costs should be reduced slightly when you are in this form. I think this was mentioned somewhere already, but I agree complete with it.

 

Tentacle Swarm:

• Though this also received a hefty range reduction (from 20m to somewhere between 5-10m?), this didn't bother me too much, the reason being that before the rework, I had often seen a tentacle spawn on a ceiling or somewhere off by itself, just flailing around like one of those advertising tube men.
• I really enjoyed seeing the Kraken head pop out of the ground, but I was a bit disappointed that it didn't do anything other that pop up for a moment, then disappear. I like what has been said before, that it could perhaps gobble up an enemy and maybe deal heavy damage to them.
• As this can now be cast while in Undertow, I think it could be cool to become the Kraken head itself, and be able to draw in enemies to deal heavy damage to them. Note that I think this should only occur if you're in Undertow, and if you break out of it, it would just resume as it does when cast from outside Undertow.
• I saw an interesting idea that this could become Hydroid's "effigy". If the Kraken head remained in place and would gobble up enemies, perhaps this could work out. The only thing I'd be concerned about, is that it would be another source of energy drain.
• Regarding all the people who have trouble hitting the enemies as they are being flailed around, I saw what I found to be a very cool idea at one point in the forums here that stated that perhaps the base of the tentacle could be shot & hit by allies, and the damage would be inflicted on the enemy held by it. I personally never had a problem hitting the flailing enemies, but I see this as a way that you could make both sides happy.

 

I always enjoyed Hydroid, and I purchased him shortly after he was released (I first started playing mid-February 2014, but stopped for ~2 years due to lots of work, buying a house etc.). I loved everything about his functional design, and he is quite fun to play as. When I started playing on Xbox One with one of my friends recently, I purchased him there as well.

 

Tl;dr: Overall, I like where he is headed, but the range reduction for Undertow hurts the ability and its augment mod unnecessarily.

[Asdryu]

I think we're back at that point where we're asking a frame to do the things the all do other frames do but with different visual effects.
His changes are most certainly not finalized, but I want his kit that he already has to be stronger and not changed overall (except for the passive. That's such a random passive). They did this with Oberon, people weren't happy, they kept going and now it's a very valid frame.

I'm kinda tempted to take that survival challenge, but atm I'm just not playing that much.

Btw, sure, I did strip the armor thanks to the augment, but I didn't need to. Melee is way stronger than it looks in that stage. I was mostly using Barrage to keep the knockdown going.
 

24 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

Excal can do that stuff in a few seconds, and pretty much every other warframe that can remove armor or boost damage I guess.

and no, trust me, barrage can be an excellent ability, thus why I hate the chages they did to its initial range. While the charge effect they gave to his Tentacle Swarm to be actually good, I hate the one for Barrage because it looks like an excuse for not increasing its power to an extent thanks to well thought builds (charge it or it's bad).

Multiple istances of barrage can be made without interrupting anything and with the augment, multiple enemies at once will lose all their armor in a matter of seconds, like barely 2.

[ashrah]

its solid frame...passive is still bad....not all frames are made to be in loki class

[Modarau]

Thank you for your work, Warframe! I'm glad that we finally remembered Hydroid, but unfortunately this situation did not change. In terms of resource extraction, everything became worse. The first ability to hydride was still difficult to apply. The second skill is too expensive in energy, because it also remains weakly applied. Thirdly the skill became interesting, but in fact too weak.  The Hydroid remains a very weak period in comparison with others.

[FoxFX]

UNDERTOW AS A "WATER DOME IDEA"

 

PROS OF CURRENT UNDERTOW

• It allows Hydroid to pull enemies into Undertow and the damage it can do racks up the longer enemies stay in it

CONS OF CURRENT UNDERTOW

• It prevents allies from attacking enemies caught in Undertow creating the same (or in some cases a worse) gameplay of Limbo. Players would like to attack the enemies in Undertow

 

SUGGESTION FOR UNDERTOW: CHANGING UNDERTOW'S SHAPE

The core suggestion presented here for Undertow is to "change the shape of Undertow." Undertow will no longer be a puddle, but this:

 

• Hydroid creates a dome of water preventing damage from enemy attacks outside of the dome. Enemies that wander into the dome can either be slowed down or floating in the dome  and are drowning causing Finisher Damage which increases the longer the enemy is inside of the Dome.
• Allies can attack enemies inside the Water Dome from the inside and out
• Hydroid will be able to attack normally with the Dome active using
• Using specific abilities with Undertow (Water Dome variant) will do the following
  • Tempest Barrage: changes how Tempest Barrage fires from above and instead the Barrages fire from the Water Dome with increased Damage and accuracy
  • Tidal Surge: The Water Dome will follow the path of Tidal Surge
  • Tentacle Swarm: Tentacles the enter the Water Dome disappear placing any captured enemy inside. While Tentacle Swarm is active, Undertow's Water Dome damage per second increases.
• Auras from Eximus Enemies inside of the Undertow Dome are negated

 

DOWNSIDE FOR THIS CHANGE OF UNDERTOW

• Removes the stealth feature of Puddle Undertow

 

QUESTIONABLE CHANGES

• How slow should enemies be in the Undertow Water Dome?
• How slow should Hydroid be in this form? Increase Energy Drain for faster speed?
• Should bullets slow down in the Water Dome of Undertow?

[Azamagon]

I'll just throw in my crazy ideas here, as I still feel he is heavily lacking in effect (even if he is more fun):

Tempest Barrage

• Make it deal noticeable damage. Be it by primary mod scaling, or enemy level scaling (a la Smite), doesn't matter.
• If there are enemies in Undertow, and a Tempest Barrage is cast within its area, all Tempest Barrage strikes will successfully land every other of its barrages somewhere on the puddle (so the Undertow can act like a great aim-improver for Tempest Barrage)
• Charge no longer increases landing area (just damage and duration)
• Augment should also proc Magnetic (I think all anti-armor augments should also deal with shields, to reduce faction bias).

Tidal Surge

• Reduce energycost to 25
• Turn off the travel early with a melee strike or jump

Undertow

• Increase movespeed a decent amount and heavily reduce movement energycost, or keep it slow but remove the energydrain entirely (energy is already scarce while Undertowing)
• Increase the base range of the manual grabbing tentacle. Without range mods, its range basicly means you are just barely pushing enemies into the pool who are at the edge of the pool, i.e. REALLY short.
• Allies can attack the pool; doing so causes the attack to be doubled in damage, but also split among all targets caught. Melee groundslams also work for this. This makes the ability a true teamwork-skill, rather than a troll-ish move, and further allows Undertow to be the "centrallizing" ability in his kit with less risk.
• All enemy auras (Eximus, Ancients etc) are disabled when they are caught in the pool, further increasing its utility.

Tentacle Swarm

• Enemies are now held steadily (rather than flailed around), in a choking+crushing manner (this also causes enemies to not be launched upwards when the tentacles spawn on them). Each tentacle can only hold 1 enemy at a time (until it dies, upon which the tentacle can grab a new enemy)
• Tentacles now move around quite quickly within their spawn radius, moving to grab enemies whenever they find an enemy trespassing within the radius
• When an enemy is grabbed and held, it slowly tries to travel in towards the centre of the ability (where the Kraken is). If the enemy reaches the Kraken, the Kraken will grab and attack the enemy, causing much higher damage to it (like as high as 3x the damage of a tentacle?). This frees the tentacle's grip, allowing the tentacles to go hunt for new enemies.
• If the Kraken is inside your Undertow, the Kraken will continuously attack all the enemies caught in the pool. Note that the Kraken's attacks counts as Tentacle Swarm damage (for the sake of its augment).
• If a tentacle brings an enemy into Undertow's radius, it will release the enemy inside the pool, also freeing the tentacle to go find new enemies (if you cast TS in Undertow, a tentacle bringing an enemy into the Undertow pretty much means that the tentacles let the Kraken take over instead, so the tentacles can hunt for new victims). Note that manually snatching an enemy with Undertow's waterlasso from a TS-tentacles's grip will help bring the enemy in to the pool (and to the Kraken) much quicker.
• Casting TS in Undertow still centres the cast on Undertow, but since the tentacles now can move around within the radius, they will move out to help bring in new enemies to the Undertow and Kraken.
• If you Tidal Surge enemies into the Kraken, the Kraken will grab the enemy (it has higher "grip-priority" than Tidal Surge).
• Number of tentacles reduced (due to the above changes) to 8 or 10. Possibly (but not necessarily) also entirely remove the charge-up effect, along with increasing base radius back up to 15 (up from 5), as well as increasing energycost to 100 again.

 

This might be way too much though (especially the Kraken stuff) :P

[Runeglyph]

I Don't have too much to say except...

• The Passive Should Scale with Height of slam like dropping from the peak of a Bullet Jump Will Always give you 2 or 3 plus it should benefit from his Augments.

1. Tempest Barrage's Corrosive Augment Should Absolutely be Standard not a Aug, maybe even on All of them to some extent. (Salt Water is Corrosive)
2. Tidal Surge is ok but maybe make it an Impervious State to go into and move or "Surge" when you need to all while it slowly drains energy.
3. Undertow only needs a Little bit more Base Range.
4. Tentacle Swarm is a waist as far as Damage is concerned... Possibly making it's Damage increase like Undertow's does.

• The Augment Pilfering Swarm is not as useful as it seems since other players are usually killing them first, Maybe making it like Ivara's Pickpocket making the longer the Tentacle has them the more it Shakes & Slams it out of them would be more of a Fit.

[Chimiasai]

My opinion about Undertow remain the same: It's an ability which work against your temmates. Before his rework, i didn't use it until i needed a quick invincibility to survive a toxin proc. And now, i've still no reason to use a spell who slow me, make me unable to use my weapons and which do little to no damages.

 

I would use Undertow if it let allies shot in the puddle to damage the enemies. It would be a nice way to play Hydroid as a damage concentrator for his teammates

[Vafthrudnir]

28 minutes ago, Asdryu said:

and no, trust me,

Asdryu, meet stupidity.

And with condition overload + mire it can do more.

[Keyhound]

i was discussing with a friend about hydroid, and i came to the conclusion that, there are too many "themes" but not enough depth in any of them so instead, i would prefer for him to be a truly pirate theme.

the way i think that would please everyone would be for his skills to be changed a little, without losing the core idea behind them. 

his first skill should no longer be the barrage, the idea of the skill is good, but by being a 1, it ends up not being usefull enough. his wave dash, is also very situational, and while usefull, and much better than it was, its still underwhelming, and not as good to use. his 3rd, is pretty divisive, because at one hand its a survival tool, but on the other, it stop alies from damaging the enemies, dragging the whole team down, his final skill is a great idea, but its still not where it needs to. so here is how i think they could work better:

the first thing is, keep the press or hold idea, because he is a pirate, it means he is used to diferent uses for the same skills, and that pretty much how he should be.

1)his first should be the wave dash, but here, is the thing, with a press, Hydroid would launch a wave foward, the wave could be in the form of shark fins, meanwhile if you held the button, Hydroid would launch himself foward... riding the Kraken, basically, the same skill we have, but the visual would make more sense.(the mod could stay the same, but this time, since you are casting at alies, it would give the player ranged support effect, enhancing its use)

2)his 2 would be the barrage, but here's how i would do, first, the duration would affect the amount of bullets thrown, kinda like vauban, but more importantly, as the skill button is held, the target area would show up(like Kela De Thaym's bombardment), and they would start out around the "target" and converge, until the button is released, if held long enough, the bullets would unite to form a massive water cannonball. (the mod here could also stay the same, with the change that the % of corrosion would be based on how "focused" the skill was).

3)here's a big one, and in my opinion, the problem comes from too many places, first, like wukoung's cloud, it makes the player almost unable to attack, you still can use your skills now, but to many people thats not enough, so instead, i would mix it with a few diferent skills, here's how, when held, Hydroid would become water like, this would make him take less damage, but more importantly, it would allow him to get more survivability, kinda like an iron skin... but diferent, this skill would make the damage he takes go to his energy bar. in that form, pressing the skill again would change his form into a puddle the same size as is right now, that moves slower, but will allow him to "pounce" on close enemies, and hold them in place, basically turning them into surrogate targets to the dmg you take, in that state you could still fire your guns, while you drown the enemy you are holding. (the mod for this one would have to be changed, but it doesnt need to be anything major, if i had to give an idea, it would be, for him to heal health in this form when using meelee attacks, or in close range, since he is a pirate, he should gain something for duels)

 

4) now the other big one. basically this will mix the original undertow, with the kraken, this time, when the button is pressed, Hydroid will turn his lower half into a giant puddle, that will trap enemies in place, and slowly damage them, the enemies will be dragged down, with only their upper halves visible, making them easy targets to the whole group, but when the button is held, Hydroid will summon a maelstrom around him, while he will turn into the Kraken(he could also only turn his lower half into the Kraken, like the Scylla, allowing him to use his weapons), most targets will still be held up their waists, but this time, using the meelee attack will cast a tentacle at the target that will be dragged into the Kraken's mouth, in case of bosses, and some more "immune" enemies, a tentacle will wrap around them and do damage instead, in either case, the target will receive continuous damage, while Hydroid is healed.(the mod for this should also be changed, but doesnt really need to, since its stay basically the same, affecting enemies touched by the skill).

 

finally the passive, he could still have the, summon tentacle, but why not change it? maybe make hydroid cast the "current" undertow(not my version, but the one in effect now), same cost and all, maybe make him do a "water" nova, like waves that will push back enemies... 

 

i hope this give you guys some ideas in how to change him, but still keep his main theme(pirate) working. 

 

[(PSN)MARXIANapparel]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_Noctis said:

Simply put DE, I am happy with the Quality of Life improvement done to Hydroid, this is how I would move foward with updating Hydroid.

1. Barrage is a good ability when it hits, however that doesnt happen often, to improvethis I would let range mods modify the size of the impact on a         50-60% increase in radious, and increase the drop hit rate to double the curent hits per second to maximize CC.

2. Undertow should be affected by range mods to be a castable field with duration+ efficiency affecting energy per second. Give it an A.I. grab of an enemy every 2 seconds, and add an ability like Libo has on movement to "Dive" into and out of undertow and leave the ability of draging enemies in with our water spydiweb. This gives us the Undertow invincibility with the proper mobility, but also allowing Hydroid a bigger precense in the field by not beying constrained inside the puddle all the time.

3. Change the synergy of Tentacles with Undertow to have it do constant Finisher damage if cast in Undertow with the casted amount of tentacles repeatedlly shooting in and out of the water for the duration with our Kraken Steve in the middle of undertow.

4. Tidal surge is Perfect. It can still move Undertow with the ever spouting tentacles on it at the same range and speed as is now.

5. Make Hydroid's passive give a less than 10% dmg resistance water armor buff to himself and allies if they are within 5 meters of one of his castable abilities.

Not a part of the rework recomendation, we should be able to colour Steve the Kraken as part of our fashion frame choices and the tentacles should be more Steve flesh  than water, it looks suspicipus that we get a Kraken head and non Kraken Tentacles.

1. Depth charge: radial random floating mine field. Enemy  maybe knocked down or instantly killed.

2. Crest: A guided wave form that deals slash dmg to enemies dragged along the bottom of the sea.

3. Decompression: visual like Banshee's sonar but place enemy in the same effect we endure when we run out of life support on survival  missions.

4. Gia's spears: radial geyser spout eruptions thats deal equal impact, puncture and slash dmg. 

[(XBOX)TheTotalCoward]

As a member of the Xbox community, I've yet to be able to play with this rework for one of my favorite frames (seriously, I love pirates, and I love my Pirate Frame even more). That said, I was hoping that maybe you'd consider adjusting his 4th ability so that we can create multiple Tentacle Swarms? It'd help with his capability as a zone controller, and it doesn't really alter his kit too much. I really don't want it to be infinite area coverage, but maybe just 2 or 3 Swarms... you know so we could have an easier time locking down an area. 

On a just as important note as possible changes to his 4, I wanted to tell everyone in the Dev team how much I LOVE the changes to his Undertow. It actually makes it a worthwhile ability! It's going to be amazing for things like Mobile Defense and Interception, just being able to tell every enemies that they can't touch your point and dragging unsuspecting units into the bottomless abyss. I can't wait to play with his new changes and be a true oceanic terror.

[Huanthus]

So far good guys but i'd tweak  the damage of undertow to be increased by  max life % of the target, it would fit better  the  theme on  drowning, and also would  do something about the passive, i mean Hydroid right now  fits the water elemental /bender theme but still is missing on the pirate one, granted you can make enemies walk on the plank to their deaths  by drowning and tempest barrage may seem like cannon fire.

 

What  about making the enemies killed on meelee to have higher chances to drop credits or something like that to increase our riches ARRR!, it doesnt have to be broken it just has to spice up life :D

[zfenty]

Hello,

I remember the first time i saw a hydroid in game. Imagine hiding while tentacles are emerging out of nothing and destroying everything. That moment that was seared into my mind as; who is this warframe and how can I be that. Now my impression of the great pirate god Hydroid has been changed to that of a farmer. Hydroid now a warframe used mainly to farm resources because of his augment pilfering swarm. I will attempt to give practical feedback in order to assist in him becoming once more the Great pirate god and to create more experiences like the one I had when I first started in the game.  

Hydroid Revisited

• Shield and armor buff: (i didn't see that coming) 9 of 10 
• Tempest Barrage: I really like the charging mechanic 4 of 10 
• Tidal Surge: I do like that it pulls enemies along for the ride 4 of 10  
• Undertow: I like that you can now move and you can use abilities in the puddle  2 of 10 
• Tentacle Swarm: I like it 9 of 10 
• Passive: no change in the passive, could be the worst passive in the game 0 of 10  
• Hydroid's Revisited Score =  28 of 60 

Hydroid Revisited Suggestions:  Most of my suggestions around of Hydroid will be made around making him a damage dealer. I understand if DE doesn't plan to make too many changes, but hey Great Sea God Hydroid!!!!

• Shield and armor buff: no changes 9 of 10 
• Exalted water Cannon:  increase score from 4 to about 7 of 10 
  • (something like a zarr)
  • Visual, imagine the barrel of a cannon emerges from the ground next to hydroid 
  • uses hydroids rifle mods/and shotgun mods  
  • fires a shotgun type shot  
  • can be used to blow enemies away and as well to deal damage 
  • damage and size of the cannon scales with power strength 
  • damage drop off based on range 
  • can be charged for more damage as well as spammed for cc 
  • range is affected by power range
  • aoe similar to Bashee's sonic boom
• Tempest Barrage: increase score from 4 to about 8 of 10 
  • buff initial range 
  • buff the duration 
  • weaken the impact effect and damage (balancing) cant be too op 
  • change the augment to add elemental based on energy color 
• Undertow:  increase score from 2 to about  9 of 10 
  • merge Tidal Surge and Undertow 
  • sliding in Under tow activates Tidal Surge.
  • buff Undertow's slow movement speed to make it more like Wukong's cloud walker 
  • no longer sucks in enemies but keeps invulnerability period 
  • no longer a damage dealing ability  
  • can be used for stealth
  • remove new ability to pull in enemies with a click (for balance)
  • you can still activate your other abilities in Undertow 
  • Visually add the emerging Kraken when using Tidal Surge 
  • Tidal Surge can alert enemies if activated nearby
• Tentacle Swarm: I wasn't sure if i could improve on what was done 10 of 10 
  • buff initial range 
  • buff duration
  • adds a flat 35% slow on the battlefield to enemies (does not scale with power strength) 
• Passive: increase score from 0 to about 7 of 10
  • all his abilities have a chance to inflict corrosive to enemies excluding new undertow
• Hydroid's Revisited Score with Suggestions = 50 of 60 

#MakeHydroidgreatagain 

Edited August 12, 2017 by zfenty

[HonorGuard2074]

After testing

 

Barrage augment should become apart of the kit ,as well as increase it's fire rate and charge (make charge only take less than 1 second so a tap is a fast less area barrage ,while a hold fires them for larger area as well as faster)

2nd ability Tidal surge is ok as is ,maybe add a cold proc to enemies when they get hit by it

3rd ability undertow should be replaced and as said before FoxFE's idea with a aqua dome to be a cast at a area where hydroid and allies can physically hurt enemies (finisher damage that scales decently such as starts with 100 at rank 0 ,and 500 at maxed which scales like now where it doubles the first second and goes up by the same amount as the starting amount)

4th DECREASE The charge time to a second or less so it a hold for a wee bit for the extra range or a tap for more conceration ,the Kraken should also have a version like the current undertow but the enemies are getting munched on by it (so you can speed process up by shooting or melee them) also increase the Tenicales to attack new targets more than try to kill current ones.

 

Barrage still should work with his 3rd ablitily and also shuffle the water causing it to wave and do a underdraft (further slows enemies and also increases aqua current damage by 25% ) ,tidal surge allows you to move it rapid forward while also causing the waters to chill as well as become unstable for moment which increases the slow from water shaking and any enemy alive in said dome is about storm trooper accurate (even a broke clock is right twice a day).4th effects it like how FoxFX idea was 

 

Passive can be improved so it carries more use such as said before higher you jumped from ,more it can spawn or replaced so hydroid where he is has been through so much that status effects are halved

Edited August 12, 2017 by robby2074

[Chopx]

[DE] Its really not that complicated to fix some of the problems with this rework/QoL changes. You have the right idea I think. Turn Hydroid into a Utility frame like Frost. 

Here is the break down:

1) Tempest Barrage is fine

2) Undertow needs some work though. First you should be able to move quite a bit faster then it is right now. I know you dont want hydroid to just be in undertow all the time but thats like his main thing. Second just make undertow a like 20 second ability that he leaves behind if he pushes the ability again. This fixes alot of his energy problems. Third Undertow should be able to drag mobs with it. This would make it so Hydroid can create "death balls". He grabs all the mobs, puts them in one location for his team to kill them. Fourth you should change it so that the mobs are visible (splashing around trying to not drown.) This makes it clear to the rest of the team that "Hey look why dont you kill these things"
 

3) Tidal surge is fine

4) Tentacle swarm is also fine

This makes Hydroid not that fun to play imo. But thats what you guys went for instead of a real rework. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Chopx
It would be really boring to just be a puddle of CC all teh time. With this you can get out and join the rest of the fun

[FoxFX]

3 minutes ago, Chopx said:

[DE] Its really not that complicated to fix some of the problems with this rework/QoL changes. You have the right idea I think. Turn Hydroid into a Utility frame like Frost. 

Here is the break down:

1) Tempest Barrage is fine

2) Undertow needs some work though. First you should be able to move quite a bit faster then it is right now. I know you dont want hydroid to just be in undertow all the time but thats like his main thing. Second just make undertow a like 20 second ability. This fixes alot of his energy problems. Third Undertow should be able to drag mobs with it. This would make it so Hydroid can create "death balls". He grabs all the mobs, puts them in one location for his team to kill them. Fourth you should change it so that the mobs are visible (splashing around trying to not drown.) This makes it clear to the rest of the team that "Hey look why dont you kill these things"
 

3) Tidal surge is fine

4) Tentacle swarm is also fine

This makes Hydroid not that fun to play imo. But thats what you guys went for instead of a real rework. 

In the case of Undertow, and working Hydroid into Utinity, what do you think of the idea I've presented in the link?:

Quote

UNDERTOW AS A "WATER DOME IDEA"

 

PROS OF CURRENT UNDERTOW

• It allows Hydroid to pull enemies into Undertow and the damage it can do racks up the longer enemies stay in it

CONS OF CURRENT UNDERTOW

• It prevents allies from attacking enemies caught in Undertow creating the same (or in some cases a worse) gameplay of Limbo. Players would like to attack the enemies in Undertow

 

SUGGESTION FOR UNDERTOW: CHANGING UNDERTOW'S SHAPE

The core suggestion presented here for Undertow is to "change the shape of Undertow." Undertow will no longer be a puddle, but this:

 

• Hydroid creates a dome of water preventing damage from enemy attacks outside of the dome. Enemies that wander into the dome can either be slowed down or floating in the dome  and are drowning causing Finisher Damage which increases the longer the enemy is inside of the Dome.
• Allies can attack enemies inside the Water Dome from the inside and out
• Hydroid will be able to attack normally with the Dome active using
• Using specific abilities with Undertow (Water Dome variant) will do the following
  • Tempest Barrage: changes how Tempest Barrage fires from above and instead the Barrages fire from the Water Dome with increased Damage and accuracy
  • Tidal Surge: The Water Dome will follow the path of Tidal Surge
  • Tentacle Swarm: Tentacles the enter the Water Dome disappear placing any captured enemy inside. While Tentacle Swarm is active, Undertow's Water Dome damage per second increases.
• Auras from Eximus Enemies inside of the Undertow Dome are negated

 

DOWNSIDE FOR THIS CHANGE OF UNDERTOW

• Removes the stealth feature of Puddle Undertow

 

QUESTIONABLE CHANGES

• How slow should enemies be in the Undertow Water Dome?
• How slow should Hydroid be in this form? Increase Energy Drain for faster speed?
• Should bullets slow down in the Water Dome of Undertow?

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by FoxFX

[FriarTuck]

Moving in Undertow (even with Tidal Surge) doesn't grant immunity to laser doors. It's weird.

[Asdryu]

38 minutes ago, Chimiasai said:

My opinion about Undertow remain the same: It's an ability which work against your temmates. Before his rework, i didn't use it until i needed a quick invincibility to survive a toxin proc. And now, i've still no reason to use a spell who slow me, make me unable to use my weapons and which do little to no damages.

 

I would use Undertow if it let allies shot in the puddle to damage the enemies. It would be a nice way to play Hydroid as a damage concentrator for his teammates

But that's the same problem with Limbo, yet he still lives. It won't work against your teammates if you use it well.

36 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

Asdryu, meet stupidity.

And with condition overload + mire it can do more.

You did say "pretty much every other warframe that can remove armor or boost damage", that's why I replied like that :P

[Rfus]

Bump

[Kenshi-Iceland]

Hi DE. I'm not really a hydroid player so I don't have any strong opinions yet on him, other then one..

Sins the revisit hydroid is using a lot his 3. little movement and such but.. unable to do other actions, like ground slam for example. rendering his passive useless..

in my opinion. id much prefer to have a chance of 10%? on each ability cast to spawn a tent on me. and with his 3 every 10 seconds have a 10% to spawn one..
otherwise his passive is not gonna do anything

was thinking that ground slamming has 100% to spawn tent but that might be to good.. unless you have a cap of how many you can make with the passive (max 3 tents from slam??)

[Lorienzo]

At least let us revive enemies while in puddle form?

[Chimiasai]

39 minutes ago, Asdryu said:

But that's the same problem with Limbo, yet he still lives. It won't work against your teammates if you use it well.

That's why i hate the pug Limbo who doesn't care about the players. A good Limbo is a great plus for his team but in bad hands, it's a burden.

Some goes for Hydroid with undertow. But with undertow, we cannot use our melee weapons or any powers against the enemies.