Ember's Deluxe Skin Feedback

[xXDeadsinxX]

Just now, phoenix1992 said:

"players are not doing constructive criticism"

Yet there is topic with 20+ pages centered around constructive criticism, including posts that said that Ignus's skin was not the hot potatoes that people think it is (even from Ignus himself).

I’m not saying all the threads aren’t constructive criticism. But, a lot are just about ranting about the deluxe skin without constructive critism. 

[BornWithTeeth]

@Rakawan

 

It was actually their own backing studio who forced them to butcher the first Dark Sectors concept. Community had nothing to do with it. And, Ember wearing a literal chicken costume is not Warframe being great.

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

I got it and it works out just as I envisioned with the Majesty Helmet and different colors.

what is going on with that toothpick waste?

[unknow99]

3 minutes ago, Rakawan said:

DE has managed to actually avoid both sides of a razor edge that a lot of game developers fall into. Sacrificing their vision for player opinions, and sacrificing player opinion for their vision.

This game has a healthy amount of player generated content and yet remains true to the dreams of those who build it.

Those complaining about the Ember skin need a history lesson about DE. They went full on for public opinion once and the result was an overall subpar game called Darksector, with a lot of potential but not much realized, because of compromise.

Warframe is their attempt to build their dream. It may not be your dream, and that is fine. It is their decision how much input they take into account and how many player suggested changes they make. They are under no obligation to tailor things to every vocal minority, especially when said minorities do nothing but rant and rave withrout any constructive feedback.

DE reserves the right to make their game how they want it to be, and it is that refusal to compromise that has made warframe the great game is today.

For those glorifying Igneus. He overstepped his bounds, and burned bridges, something he admits. DE is under no obligation to bow to someone who forgot his place in the creative process.

DE does not charge a monthly subscription, nor to they promise specific results. They offer the game as is, and you either buy the items within or don’t. They are under no obligation to provide you with exactly what you want.

TL:DR

You don’t like it, don’t buy it. THhat is how this sort of game works, that is how it should work.

 

Many valid points, but they still need to keep an eye on their players feedback man. The "haters gonna hate" mentality is quite unwise to adopt...

Also Dark Sector was what it was because of the white collars who didn't want to take much risk and said to [DE]Steve "no no, make it more generic and speak to the lowest common denominator, we're too afraid it might not sell well"... :/

Listening to every fan request is as foolish as completely disregarding feedback that doesn't please you, ya know. 

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, Rakawan said:

Those complaining about the Ember skin need a history lesson about DE. They went full on for public opinion once and the result was an overall subpar game called Darksector, with a lot of potential but not much realized, because of compromise.

A history lesson;  http://www.pcgamer.com/the-story-of-warframe-how-a-game-no-publisher-wanted-found-26-million-players/

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

@Rakawan

 

It was actually their own backing studio who forced them to butcher the first Dark Sectors concept. Community had nothing to do with it. And, Ember wearing a literal chicken costume is not Warframe being great.

Dark sectors is a sad story, and Digital Extremes has a lot of respect, for calling it quits on the publisher crap thrower after that.
That does not mean that they have not been influenced by feedback (Hello there Nova), or that it makes them immune to mistakes.

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I’m not saying all the threads aren’t constructive criticism. But, a lot are just about ranting about the deluxe skin without constructive critism. 

Ok, but that leads us to a question:

 

Why is it better to offer constructive feedback?

Edited November 2, 2017 by BornWithTeeth

[DatDarkOne]

21 minutes ago, unknow99 said:

2) Default color scheme : that dominant blue-green doesn't match the fire theme at all : that's probably the second reason why a lot of people think it's a Zephyr skin... Look at DatDarkOne's color scheme for instance : THIS is a fire focused color scheme! You use warm colors like red/yellow/brown/orange!... Not blue/green unless you work for GazdeFrance or something...

Thanks Tenno!  :D  Those are my usual colors: Black, White, and Gold that I use as my signature theme (Skull Squadron/Jolly Rogers).  

I do agree that a different default color scheme might have helped those without an eye for things like that.  

On a side note.  I don't use Steam client either.  I hate it.  I only install it when I plan to buy Tennogen and then erase it right after.  

[xXDeadsinxX]

5 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Ok, but that leads us to a question:

 

Why is it better to offer constructive feedback?

Why? It’s pretty obvious why. Constructive feedback is always the better option.

Without constructive feedback = Players ranting without clean feedback which is rude

With constructive feedback = Players giving clean feedback with suggestions 

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, xXDeadsinxX said:

Why? It’s pretty obvious why. Constructive feedback is always the better option.

Without constructive feedback = Players ranting without clean feedback which is rude

With constructive feedback = Players giving clean feedback with suggestions 

That does not actually answer the question, though. It just says that constructive feedback is more polite and therefore better.

 

The actual answer is that you give constructive feedback hoping that it will be heard. Even if the person to whom it is addressed responds by saying ‘I see your points, and acknowledge them, but I’m going to try this my way anyway.’

 

DE did not respond well to the constructive feedback which was offered back then, so why should we bother providing it now or in the future?

 

You see, what I am annoyed about is not the bad skin for Ember. It is the harm to the perception of DE as a creative group who actually listen to their players, as opposed to telling them to go and piss up a rope.

 

 

[Rakawan]

19 minutes ago, unknow99 said:

Many valid points, but they still need to keep an eye on their players feedback man. The "haters gonna hate" mentality is quite unwise to adopt...

Also Dark Sector was what it was because of the white collars who didn't want to take much risk and said to [DE]Steve "no no, make it more generic and speak to the lowest common denominator, we're too afraid it might not sell well"... :/

Listening to every fan request is as foolish as completely disregarding feedback that doesn't please you, ya know. 

Regardless of how direct the influence of public opinion was it was DE’s decision to stick by their guns that made Warframe great. That is my point. 

Yes they could have changed some things, but it was their decision to do so or not do so, which is the point I want to get across. 

They listen a lot more than most, but they also disregard some feedback for their own vision. This is a case of something being dropped for their own vision. 

I personally don’t like some of the skins or weapons, but I accept that they are how they are and others enjoy them. I have no right to call DE bad or horrible for not implementing a weapon that functions exactly how I think it should.

That is what the OP is saying and that is what I am saying. The hatred towards DE and the designers needs to stop, if you are offering constructive criticism and feedback then the thread is not directed at you.

[DatDarkOne]

30 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

what is going on with that toothpick waste?

I just double checked with default, prime, and tennogen Majesty skins.  The Deluxe has a waist just slightly smaller than the Prime version which is slimmer than all the others.  Which looks like the Deluxe is based more off the Prime model than the default Ember model.  

[BornWithTeeth]

The issue with saying that players should focus on giving polite and constructive feedback is that on this issue, people did do that. It got completely ignored. DE did not even say ‘We see your concerns, but we are confident that you’ll love the finished product!’

 

The best we got was Steve suggesting that the skin might have some flame effects.

[Cubewano]

24 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I just double checked with default, prime, and tennogen Majesty skins.  The Deluxe has a waist just slightly smaller than the Prime version which is slimmer than all the others.  Which looks like the Deluxe is based more off the Prime model than the default Ember model.  

What are you talking about? Ember and Ember Prime both have the same waist size, the deluxe is the only one that varies. 

[[DE]Megan]

This thread began as feedback and has progressively turned into derailing comments due to the launch of Ember’s Vermillion Skin. As an Ember fanatic, I’m here to interject some words. 

If we could use the first proposed Ember Deluxe Skin, we would. It’s a beautiful design, but unfortunately creative differences made moving forward with it impossible. Could we publically dive into great detail as to what those creative differences were? Sure. But we’re not about naming and shaming here in the Warframe community. So of course our team had to start over with a new design that steered itself in a different artistic direction. The apology from the responsible party is here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/734001-my-personal-apology-to-the-fans/

I’m truly disappointed to see some disrespectful words being tossed around about artistic feedback. 

At the end of the day, the DE team put love and effort into making the Vermillion Skin. It’s your choice to either purchase it or pass on it. With the current track of amazing Warframe TennoGen artists there will be plenty of different Skins to grace the majesty that is Ember.

This is not the end of all Skins for Ember - so please keep your feedback constructive. 

[DatDarkOne]

35 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

What are you talking about? Ember and Ember Prime both have the same waist size, the deluxe is the only one that varies. 

I had checked in game right before I posted.  Ember and Ember Prime do not share the same waist size.  It's easier to see when looking at the Arsenal screen and having the frame facing away from you.  I then switched between all the skins and I could easily see the waist differences.  

It was your own posted question that made me check this.  

[phoenix1992]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

I had checked in game right before I posted.  Ember and Ember Prime do not share the same waist size.  It's easier to see when looking at the Arsenal screen and having the frame facing away from you.  I then switched between all the skins and I could easily see the waist differences.  

It was your own posted question that made me check this.  

Just grab two embers and go in the simulacrum to test.

I know that Ember prime does not use the same mesh as Ember.

[Cubewano]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I had checked in game right before I posted.  Ember and Ember Prime do not share the same waist size.  It's easier to see when looking at the Arsenal screen and having the frame facing away from you.  I then switched between all the skins and I could easily see the waist differences.  

It was your own posted question that made me check this.  

I checked as well, and I'm telling you they are the same. 

[Dama73]

Honestly The thing that puts me off this skin (Ignoring the helmet which you can swap out) are all the feather like additions that make her look like a chicken.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Nova73

[--BIG--Doug-Desu]

Rework on Ember and Skin, please ;-;

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

Honestly I genuinely like it. People need to stop taking it so personal lol. It's ONE skin.

[Cubewano]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

Honestly I genuinely like it. People need to stop taking it so personal lol. It's ONE skin.

It's a deluxe, those aren't common. It could be years before ember gets another. 

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

Just now, Cubewano said:

It's a deluxe, those aren't common. It could be years before ember gets another. 

It's still just one skin. There's a few deluxe I don't like at all, but whatever. I'll live.

I like this one as I'm sure others do as well.

[unknow99]

1 hour ago, Rakawan said:

Regardless of how direct the influence of public opinion was it was DE’s decision to stick by their guns that made Warframe great. That is my point. 

Yes they could have changed some things, but it was their decision to do so or not do so, which is the point I want to get across. 

They listen a lot more than most, but they also disregard some feedback for their own vision. This is a case of something being dropped for their own vision. 

I personally don’t like some of the skins or weapons, but I accept that they are how they are and others enjoy them. I have no right to call DE bad or horrible for not implementing a weapon that functions exactly how I think it should.

That is what the OP is saying and that is what I am saying. The hatred towards DE and the designers needs to stop, if you are offering constructive criticism and feedback then the thread is not directed at you.

Oooh ok. I agree with your point then. I myself look past A LOT of content (no Lunaro,no conclave, not farming the same frame twice,no hijacking,etc...)

The thing is : some of the critics they're getting aren't aimed towards them, but towards the skin itself.

The hatred towards DE is toxic. The hatred towards the Ember skin itself? Well, to each his own...

Although, as a piece of advice, I'll say that if DE wants more dough in their pockets, they'd better read/listen to that feedback, both positive AND negative...

What they could do is (and I think it happened before) : rework the skin a bit, and offer to those who love the first iteration to keep the legacy look. That way everyone is pleased. :)

O P T I O N S

Edited November 2, 2017 by unknow99

[Voltage]

32 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

At the end of the day, the DE team put love and effort into making the Vermillion Skin. It’s your choice to either purchase it or pass on it. With the current track of amazing Warframe TennoGen artists there will be plenty of different Skins to grace the majesty that is Ember.

I understand the design differences and all, but TennoGen does not count. Warframes so far get only 1 Deluxe skin and 1 Immortal skin, and many players are annoyed at how this skin took up that space. The Ember TennoGen skins are awesome, but cost good amounts of money unless you are on console. I feel that the Ember deluxe skin we have was a little rushed, and should have taken a bit more time to create and take artistic feedback. Being disrespectful is not constructive, but many civil complaints since the very first showing explained Embers Phoenix theme, Fire, as well the helmet and skin design. I just hope the skin we have gets an update to coloring as some parts just turn into solid color.

Edited November 2, 2017 by --Q--Voltage