Should passive energy regeneration be a norm for our Warframes? (Like Archwing)

[TennoPain]

No but leachers need to be nerfed 

[PsiWarp]

We have Energy Siphon and other support Warframes for passive regen. What I would like them to explore is a way to earn energy from combat and activities such as achieve melee combos, performing parkour, etc, as to make the experience more interactive.

[TrickshotMcGee]

1 hour ago, Flandyrll said:

why not give the opportunity for some gunplay and melee to complement abilities?

I have no problem with this at all. If it's consistent, then it's worth consideration. However, making them mods is kind of ridiculous. With how many mods a lot of weapons require to be useful, I don't feel like making them mods is the correct way to go about it.

Solely because the fact is - if it gets you energy back and isn't bad, such as the Broken Scepter, then it becomes mandatory. Everyone is going to use it. I'm not against weapons becoming more integral to overall play (being that they're a massive part of the game and all), but forcing it in with mods when our modding is already convoluted and unclear is just a bad idea. Shoehorning energy mods in for the sake of adding some excuse to get rid of regen is ridiculous. Not to mention DE's love for making useful mods stupidly hard to farm. Granted, they shouldn't just be free, but we also shouldn't be subject to farms like the one for Cyclone Kraken if we desire to make up for poor energy cost values (if you didn't know, Cyclone Kraken has a really stupid farm). 

If, for example, scoring headshot kills got us 10 energy (or whatever value) I'd be fine with that. But if I had to get a mod to do that, and the only place to farm it was an Archwing Rush mission, that would be decidedly bad. And I honestly wouldn't put it past DE to do that. 

Again, making a consistent way to get energy is fine. Just don't force it in unnecessary ways that are crappy for no reason. Like forced mods. That method not only locks newer players out of it unless they're easy to farm, it would also make our modding that much harder. Builds are tight as-is. Plus if they're hard to farm, they become really expensive. There's no win there if it's a mod.

Edited September 17, 2017 by TrickshotMcGee

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Nope. You've got the choice between Energy Siphon, Pads and energy orbs, not to mention abilities on frames that return you energy.

[RX-3DR]

5 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

I have no problem with this at all. If it's consistent, then it's worth consideration. However, making them mods is kind of ridiculous. With how many mods a lot of weapons require to be useful, I don't feel like making them mods is the correct way to go about it.

Solely because the fact is - if it gets you energy back and isn't bad, such as the Broken Scepter, then it becomes mandatory. Everyone is going to use it. I'm not against weapons becoming more integral to overall play (being that they're a massive part of the game and all), but forcing it in with mods when our modding is already convoluted and unclear is just a bad idea. Shoehorning energy mods in for the sake of adding some excuse to get rid of regen is ridiculous. Not to mention DE's love for making useful mods stupidly hard to farm. Granted, they shouldn't just be free, but we also shouldn't be subject to farms like the one for Cyclone Kraken if we desire to make up for poor energy cost values (if you didn't know, Cyclone Kraken has a really stupid farm). 

If, for example, scoring headshot kills got us 10 energy (or whatever value) I'd be fine with that. But if I had to get a mod to do that, and the only place to farm it was an Archwing Rush mission, that would be decidedly bad. And I honestly wouldn't put it past DE to do that. 

Again, making a consistent way to get energy is fine. Just don't force it in unnecessary ways that are crappy for no reason. Like forced mods. That method not only locks newer players out of it unless they're easy to farm, it would also make our modding that much harder. Builds are tight as-is. Plus if they're hard to farm, they become really expensive. There's no win there if it's a mod.

Mandatory?

It's not mandatory if you don't want to use it or don't need it. Some people get by without Zenurik's passive energy regeneration, is this going to become a mandatory must have to them? No, they can opt to just ignore it. If we're going to sit and argue that things are mandatory, there are a lot of things that are mandatory for your standard all Power build. All this does is widen the scope to include weapons to able to provide support to ability use. Things like Argon Scope is not mandatory to every crit build. A weapon doesn't become useless the moment you pull 1 mod out of it. You're being rather silly over how your build needs to be perfectly optimized for damage so that you can avoid using it by spamming abilities.

This energy problem is only prevalent in the late game. New players don't even know about the existence of Zenurik. They're not going to login one day and suddenly realize that they need 4 E/s. Corrupted mods have always been somewhat of a luxury mod that you try for at a later point in the game so realistically, these mods, even if they are placed behind Archwing Rush, which is a joke by the way, it would not be as big of a problem as you make it out to be. Things have had worse drop locations and people eventually get them. You can trade for mods as well so really, stop being so silly over it.

The reason why I'm proposing this over the lazy man's passive energy regeneration is because you can decide on a value based on the condition. I'm sure we can all agree that 5 energy per second as a passive is a terrible idea. If we're talking about 25 energy over 5 seconds on a successful Ground Finisher, more people will find it sensible even if both are 5 energy per second. You can have alternatives such as 15 energy over 5 seconds on Slide Attacks on melee since the condition is slightly easier to achieve. Only one can be equipped per weapon. Are any of them mandatory to an Ember? No. They might be useful to have, they might be very good to complement extensive power use but they are by no means mandatory. You're exaggerating the issue

I wouldn't bother with any of those mods on my Nova so no, they are not mandatory.

The removal of Energy Regeneration is because it offers nothing to gameplay. In fact, high amounts subtract from energy management. What I'm suggesting would add to versatility of gameplay in pushing people to stop relying on a single ability and ignoring 75% of their arsenal and build diversity because you would be able to decide if you needed that small boost and if you did, which would suit your needs best. The only real disadvantage is that you can't be lazy and expect to get anything out of it and a single mod slot that isn't going to suddenly turn your Sybaris into Lato.

No seriously, stop pretending that what someone tells you in his build is something that you must copy to every specification. The only real mandatory mods are the damage and multishot mods for weapons because weapons without them will severely under-perform even against level 30 enemies.

P.S. No, they are not mandatory if you can choose not to use them.

[TrickshotMcGee]

19 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

No, they can opt to just ignore it.

Sure. Bad phrasing on my part, but Zenurik is very much opt-in. I will agree to that. I even noted somewhere that I'm a primary Unairu user, dunno if that got lost in the mountain of words or not, but I mostly don't bother with Zen except on a select few frames that have some bad energy issues (like Chroma, who I also mentioned). Ability spam is alright if you like it, but I only have one frame that really does that, it being my previously mentioned Ember. 

21 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Things like Argon Scope is not mandatory to every crit build. A weapon doesn't become useless the moment you pull 1 mod out of it. You're being rather silly over how your build needs to be perfectly optimized for damage so that you can avoid using it by spamming abilities.

I figured I had made it abundantly clear before. I don't have any particular care for pure ability spam. None at all. My argument with you right now is purely against forcing ridiculous mods on us that, frankly, we don't need in favor of making certain forms of that energy gain not mod-based.

I wouldn't be against energy regen on ground finishers. I just don't want to be forced to use a mod to do so. Same with regular finishers, or slide attacks, or whatever the hell else DE can cook up. My only gripe with the idea is it being mod-based. To put it into perspective, I was for keeping innate 6 meter vacuum before people started whining and got it made into a universal sentinel mod. 

26 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Archwing Rush, which is a joke by the way, it would not be as big of a problem as you make it out to be. Things have had worse drop locations and people eventually get them. You can trade for mods as well so really, stop being so silly over it.

My point was that it is unnecessarily tedious to get ALL the possible rewards for AW Rush. 1 is fine, 2 is doable, but all 3 is just a pain. On top of that, people avoid AW like the plague. Doing that particular mission without Itzal is just unfun in every respect.

And yes, because trading for rare mods is so easy. I can just go get me a Condition Overload with my grand total of f*ck all plat and nothing of trade value right? Wait, no. That's wrong. I can't do that. Because CO is rare and can be a pain to farm for, so it can be costly. All rare mods are hard to trade for. Thus if they are rare, you cannot just trade for them. 

34 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

No seriously, stop pretending that what someone tells you in his build is something that you must copy to every specification.

Don't go assuming that I can't mod my own weapons. It's honestly just insulting and unwarranted. I didn't do a damn thing to you aside from provide a counter argument to your comments. None of which were arguments were based on the way you play the game. Please don't make it personal, because that makes it very difficult to have an actual discussion and devolves into people just slinging insults back and forth. Not terribly productive. 

 

Back on topic, I am against new mods being added to compensate for things that don't need to be mods. Energy shouldn't be something we have to fight to get. I agree that passive regeneration could be considered too powerful or too lazy, as I've probably said 4 times now. But my quarrel is with the fact that I have my weapons modded for QoL. None of my guns are made for raw DPS or min-maxed, they're all just purely what I enjoy using.

When passive regen is gone, I would like to have some form of energy income that isn't the RNG orbs because NOW it might actually happen, so I can use Focus I like while also not worrying about abilities if I decide to use them. But I also have my weapons tailored to perform exactly the way I want them to, so sacrificing a mod slot, whether it is recoil reduction, fire rate, or what have you, makes them less fun for me to use. Same with my Warframes. I like having sprint speed or shield regeneration, and the like on them, but getting rid of those is loss of QoL for me. 

Overall, people like their mod setups for whatever reason. Whether they want their numbers, or because I want my sprint speed/recovery, it doesn't matter. So making new bandaid mods that could easily be made passive is simply not necessary. If DE wants to give us 25 energy over 5 seconds on a ground finisher, then don't make us mod for it. Forced modding for QoL is false QoL because it makes us sacrifice other QoL stuff to slot it. 

[RX-3DR]

28 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

-

Apologies, I was under the impression that you were that specific type of player who insist that all 8 slots on a weapon must be set up in a specific way for unnecessary mix/maxing. The way you were so fervently defending mod slots was a bit of a red flag.

The reason why options have to be given in the form of mods is to allow a wider variety of choice. No one said your variety had to be difficult to get. Honestly, I would say they're better off suited as Common and Uncommon mods with a few exceptions for a few more complicated ones with higher return value. But the reason why they would do best as mods is because they're meant to be something you specialize towards. Things like general headshots, kills and slide attacks are very easy to achieve that there has to be some form of barrier to prevent free access to. If you were to make them a general passive, they either need to be scaled down to match the number resulting in bad return values or people will feel compelled to do all sorts of silly movements that they're not happy to. On the opposite side, even things like Ground Finishers can be very situational to certain people who only engage targets from a distance.

Dedicating to a specialization should always come at a price and losing a mod slot for some weapons to fit in a relatively low cost mod(I would say ~6) is a generous price. You opt in on your condition that you prefer and are more confident in and it will be a supplement to energy use. At least with the case of selecting a mod that fits your preference, you do get to have much more valuable returns since they would be scaled on an individual level. It does not force people to adjust their playstyle to fitting new requirements that they do not wish to fulfill but presents them a choice to find something that they can make use of. 

Honestly, it's not sensible to create a new dedicated system for this either because it is a lot of work for something that only a select group of people will end up using effectively. The only people that would be at a loss would who should be making use of this not wanting to adapt to it or people that are just so lazy, they can't even make use of a simple condition.

It's not about quality of life. It's about alternatives within specializing. It's not designed to make the game easier but to reduce the unreliability of energy drops for specific builds and put more control into the player on his sustainability.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Flandyrll

[Zedasfogueiras]

11 hours ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Nope. Maybe just buff energy siphon a bit, maybe like 1 energy per sec

why not both?

[CaliburxZero]

Okay, so this is going to be a long post and I haven't been on the forums for awhile, but just let me say, YES, I am in favor of a energy economy that allows for the use of more abilities, but maybe not necessarily in the form of the 4 Energy/sec from Zenurik.

Let's talk about the general idea of game design for a second here.  What is DE's vision of abilities?  Are they to be used all the time?  Or perhaps are they powers to be used in times of dire need?  That in and of itself, is what should set the tone of the entire discussion.  And while I am not DE, I will argue that the "spamming" of abilities, or their more frequent use is not only intended, but implicated through the various tools we have before us.

Fleeting Expertise.  Primed Flow.  Energy Overflow.  Energy Siphon.  Trinity.  Energy Pads. These are just a few of the energy tools we have before us. Ladies and Gentlemen, the existence and usage of these items are obvious.  With intelligent use of any of these tools at our disposal, not to mention the combination of these things all lead me to one conclusion only... And that is to allow the use of fairly frequent use of abilities.  What Energy overflow in particular allows for, is the ability to do this but without the need to rely on a number of tools to truly bring out the Quality of Life usage that many want.  The question becomes however, is Energy overflow too much?  But is the idea itself something wrong?  No... You're only trying to shove your agenda upon others and what you want by arguing this.  Because before it, there were ways to more or less have near unlimited spam, the most easy example is running alongside of a nice Trinity.

And while Focus is indeed in a pitiful state and needed tons of rework, I will point out one simple fact.  Focus was put in with thought.  The concepts (even if poorly implemented) put forth by its existence weren't just written down on a napkin then randomly tossed in the very next day.  This was a conscious effort.  The idea that energy should be more accessible at the late game is undeniable, as there are so many ways to accomplish this.  People who believe abilities should be this rare, very precious thing to use only in certain circumstances in my opinion are flat out wrong.  If that were the case as so many people cheer on for Energy Overflow's demise (or rather, the concept that abilities should not be spammed to a degree), then I'd like to point out all the things DE has given us to contradict that playstyle.  It was your choice to ignore these things, sorry.  But its obvious with the existence of these tools, I would strongly argue against such a notion.

Now, If I start going down the philosophy and mechanics regarding energy economy I feel I may be here all day so I won't, but yes... All of the tools I feel also reveal and show that they are actually band-aids.  Now this is my opinion and speculation, but the existence of these tools lead me to believe that while YES, they want abilities to be fairly common-ish in usage, they seem to have a hard time in realizing a healthy medium of what allows whatever their vision is of ability usage.  My impression is that they want us to work for the ability to do this later on, probably of course to keep things interesting and feel the progression of a power curve, it also seems like the upper limit of what is wanted doesn't seem to be clear either.  One thing can be said for certain however, that the current energy economy is not good.  Abilities obviously should have a limit or else energy as a resource wouldn't exist, but at what point does ability usage become too much?  Its not for us to decide, its not our game.

All that aside, back to this exact topic... I do feel on the overall, Energy Overflow is a step in the right direction.  My reasoning here is that it allowed for Quick thinking setups to be much more viable in builds that couldn't realistically use Rage, but also does allow for a much more interesting build philosophy in build setups for the balance of Power stats.  However, those who insult and make the usage of Energy overflow or the concept of having easy energy are short-sighted.  For a long time now, the game has gone in the direction of easy-to-get energy.   Warframe is after a horde-style shooter where you are supposed to fight off many enemies.  It only makes sense in a horde-style game with very fast-paced combat to allow for energy to keep up with a more constant demand (at least to me).

[Lost_Cartographer]

I don't think the game would benefit or be ruined by passive energy gain.  It would simply be a nifty little buff.  If you're hell bent on spamming abilities (likely, CC, for long endless and sorties) you'll find a means to keep your pool topped off without passive energy gain.  The core issue of late game is that people can spam CC abilities that scale infinitely, not necessarily that there was a focus school that fed absurd quantities of energy to the player.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

3 hours ago, ninjadeboxers said:

why not both?

Because vurently 4 energy per sec trivialize energy usage to absolute nothing. And 0.6 energy per sec is jyst barely useful.

 

We already have energy siphon, just fix it. And while we're on it, fix energy leeches to be balenced, and we're good to go.

[Mepheri]

14 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

But how would it effect farming if you dont need energy, since you are using Despoil and Equilibirum....?

oh, it wil make me need to go farm for resources for energy pizzas wayyy more often.

[Kalvorax]

17 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

We have Energy Siphon and other support Warframes for passive regen. What I would like them to explore is a way to earn energy from combat and activities such as achieve melee combos, performing parkour, etc, as to make the experience more interactive.

this would really help solo players for sure...and encourage us to use ALL of our....abilities ..not just power spamming

[Rixuel]

0 energy regen is boring

[phoenix1992]

Rather poor comparison. 

The current Archwing system is not reliable for absolutely any pick up (unless Itzal) and auto Energy/Ammo regen came out of that. 
It is like saying "Should everyone ride in wheelchairs? (Just like people without feet)".

 

[Kinetos]

I think passive 1E/s would be fine. A heavy caster will still run out quickly, but it would soften the RNG.

[DxAdder]

On 9/17/2017 at 7:00 AM, LokiTheCondom said:

In lights of Focus system being completely revisited (bye bye Energy Overflow), do you think it's better if passive energy regeneration becomes available to all Warframes similar to our Archwings? Agree or disagree, do share why :)

No need, this game already has too many crutches as it is.

 

[_junguler]

they should add 0.5 energy regen passive when you solo and add another 0.5 for everyone in the squad so 2 at max, i'm not gonna bother with energize or any operator arcane they might come up with ...

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 9/17/2017 at 5:08 AM, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

while I am an avid user of Energy Overflow, I know that some people want to move away from relying on fast energy regen and would prefer less ability spam. I think an ideal compromise would be 2 Energy per second, which is still a decent amount even for the less efficient frames (looking at you Chroma), and would still stack with energy Siphon. that way we can use our abilities when needed, but not enough to make them trivial.

another alternative would be to buff energy Siphon, which i think is long overdue. Pizzas still work, but they can be tedious to craft and expensive for some. either a passive regen or Energy Siphon buff would be the way to go.

I'm still hoping Chroma's actual Passive will just be an inherent Rage Mod. That'd help him a lot, considering the fact you really can't build Efficiency on him to benefit the most from his abilities. It wouldn't be much either considering how high his Armor is and how much it'll reduce the Energy return, but it'll still help him far more than other Passives will, in my mind at least.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

Here are the frames I think this would significantly hurt:

Saryn obviously because she can't even keep up with Energy Overflow. 

Chroma unless they buff his abilities to pretty much be toggle.

Nidus because sometimes he gets into a no Energy situation.

Ash because he's already a weak frame now but this will make Ash pretty much unusable. This is unless you Forma the aura which Ash needs for his passive to be effective. Overall, negative is all aspects. I've tried running Ash with a Rakta Cernos in an Infested Mission but it became a very tedious and frustrating experience. It can work but it would deter the Ash Mains.

Atlas as if he wasn't weak enough already (other than Landslide at least).

Mag as if she wasn't weak enough already.

Rhino but he doesn't really need it since his Iron Skin is HP based.

Armor Striping Frosts because they exist.

Trinity Players because people will ask for them more often.

 

That's quite a few frames that are completely thrown out the Window without Energy Overflow. If you're saying that Warframe without Energy Overflow is fine, you honestly never used these frames for Late Game against any faction. I compiled this list from personal experience and these frames suffer in terms of how fun and useful the frames are. I'm not saying the frames above are bad without Energy Overflow, but I am saying that they aren't fun to use without Energy Overflow.

Must I remind the player base that this is a game for the mere purpose of being fun and entertaining. This isn't a hot topic debate just because it feels more fair. The point is to make the game fun and not a serious debate about skill. If you really want to mention skill, GET A SKILL THAT CAN HELP YOU SURVIVE IRL INSTEAD.

Edited September 19, 2017 by (PS4)godlysparta

[Ryko]

how about adding in the ability to choose our own passives from a list, and energy regen can be one..

if you dont like it, dont use it.
if you dont like spammers, play solo, or with other like minded people.

this way you have a wider variety for a build and people can play in a way THEY see as fun..not in a way that YOU  see as fun.
Not everyone finds fun in spamming..same as not everyone finds fun in turning warframe into some kind of hybrid shooter/survival game where you need to conserve energy resources.

[Firetempest]

I would like to see a test that brought back the stamina bar as your energy instead. With different regen time triggers per power per frame. I think flat rates hurt too many frames and op select few.

[Hypernaut1]

12 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

 

That's quite a few frames that are completely thrown out the Window without Energy Overflow.

 Wow,  such hyperbole! Energy overflow as nice,  but it wasn't THAT hand changing.  I used it and still popped an energy pad every now and then.  I really wasnt that necessary.  You are badly exaggerating

[(PSN)TertulSee]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 Wow,  such hyperbole! Energy overflow as nice,  but it wasn't THAT hand changing.  I used it and still popped an energy pad every now and then.  I really wasnt that necessary.  You are badly exaggerating

I actually was talking about Saryn. My resource economy will run out immediately if I was to use Energy Pads instead in long runs with Saryn.

[HowlAtTheMoon]

So if we were to remove not just Zenurik, but Vacuum, Energy Siphon and Arcane Energize too - would you "it's just about skill"tards be happy? Of course not, quality of life is a highly important aspect to a game that is supposed to be relaxing for a man after he gets home from 8 hours in work. You entitled whiners saying "it's fine just get better" don't seem to understand that people with jobs and lives have bigger things to worry about than their favourite game being turned into a bigger grinding S#&$fest than it already became with the introduction of the relic system.

 

Why have reload speed mods? Just get good and learn to not die for a split second longer.

Why have punch through mods? Just get good and learn to shoot multiple enemies.

Why have damage mods? Just get good and learn to headshot.

This line of reasoning is absurd in the extreme and you should be intellectually ashamed of yourself for daring to entertain the idea of abolishing passive energy regeneration.