orokin are human or what?

[Mints]

9 hours ago, lullul1635 said:

I can't figure out orokin's identity in game.

so tenno are their descendants and what are orokin?

are they evolved human or what?

DE ever mentioned about that?

The Orokin are a caste of humans that have changed themselves. Human and Orokin are not the same thing, but the Orokin inhabit human bodies. That said, the Tenno were NOT Orokin. Curiously, Hunhow refers to Alad V as an Orokin at least once. Still no real explanation for that one.

[GrimAtrament]

Orokins are humans they just like to think of themselves as "superior." 

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 hour ago, Mints said:

The Orokin are a caste of humans that have changed themselves. Human and Orokin are not the same thing, but the Orokin inhabit human bodies. That said, the Tenno were NOT Orokin. Curiously, Hunhow refers to Alad V as an Orokin at least once. Still no real explanation for that one.

Thats simple. Even Orokins looks like humans. Last time Hunhow was active was during the Old War, he doesn't know about Corpus or Grineer or anything that happened after the war. Its understandable that he thinks Alad V. To him, they are all human and the same thing.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

We wuz kangz!

[--F--NerevarCM]

4 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

The lore is contradictory and a mess. The Simaris lore barely references the Codex lore. The Fragment lore doesn't really reference the Simaris lore. Where the Codex mentioned emperors, the current Fragment lore (which aligns with post-TSD lore) doesn't mention the emperors at all. Neither does the Simaris lore, for that matter. It mentions Executors, Archimedians, Sectarus, and Enginus classes. When Margulis in TSD calls "you Orokin" evil, she's talking to the Executors. Not only that, but the Simaris lore clearly states that the two highest classes are Executor and Sectarus, with only these two being able to access the Executorial Frigates. No reference whatsoever to the emperors. IF the emperors existed, then they'd be the highest class, above Executors and Sectarus. Those two classes would not be the highest classes, and the emperors would have access to Executorial frigates as well.

With regard to the Sentients, they were originally a faction with worm ships and undulating disks, a very different picture than how the Sentients are now. Not only that, but there's also inconsistency between the earlier quests and the current lore. For example, you have the Hidden Messages quest (the Mirage one) mentioning swarming Sentients and Mirage is ripping their heads off. Even the Sentinel lore is different. Where the descriptions for the Prime Sentinels suggest that the Orokin created the sentinels, the Fragment lore suggests they are Sentient creations discovered after the Old War on the edge of the Origin system.

Let's consider the Dax. In the Simaris lore, they are the gun-wielding standard fighting force of the Orokin Empire, with standard military ranks. Yet, post-TSD, they are essentially sword-wielding proto-Tenno who specifically served the Orokin.

Now, how about the Tenno? The Codex entries suggest that the Warframes were literally built around the Tenno. The Warframes were able to wipe out the Sentients (an inconsistency with the upcoming Teralyst in PoE which can only be disabled by the Operator). The Tenno were discovered on the Zariman 10-0 as a bunch of crying children. The adults were gone - not dead, just gone, nowhere to be seen. When the Zariman children were discovered, you still had some semblance of modern Earth, with military officers wearing berets. Even when you get to the Rhino Prime Codex entry, people still have normal English names, like Davis, something that is completely absent in the current game. This is also referred to as the Void era, not the Orokin era. When the Tenno were discovered, they were put on ice, in a morgue-like room. However, when you get to post-TSD lore (specifically Chains of Harrow), we see that the Tenno were discovered during the Orokin era and that Margulis was involved with them from the very beginning, with no indication that they were put on ice where they stayed until the Orokin era. As for the Operators, there is also a contradiction. The Tenno were asleep during the Orokin era. They were dreaming, and didn't even remember they were children. Yet they somehow founded Tenno schools where they pop out of their Warframes as the Operators. And that's not even a contradiction between old lore and new lore. That's just a TSD contradiction.

These are inconsistencies, and I'm not the only one who has recognized that. StallordD, the beloved "lore god", even says the lore is a messy contradiction.

As the Council of Seven, meaning the seven executors, if they are the rulers of the empire, they are the emperors. Since we're talking about an empire.

Archimedians are not a class, they are a caste.

The Dax lore from Simaris don't contradict the fragment lore at all. Dax Soldiers were the elite before the Tenno arrived. They're the best the Orokin Empire had, thats why you see them around Sectarus and Executor class. Check Simaris codex and everytime the Dax are mentioned, they're following high class Orokin. In Octavia Anthem novel, you see Dax guarding Suda. They were never the "standard troop" from the Orokin Era.

Based on Simaris codex, Orokin used Corrupted, and common soldiers like Lorists before the Dax or put the Dax as commanders of these common soldiers (Ancient Healer). And looks like only high ranking Orokin could give them orders.

We never saw a Sentient spaceship. Only a small dropship that carries small sentients and Hunhow that is a "living being", its not confirmed if he is a ship.

The Warframe IS build around the Tenno. You only took it literally and tought it was a hollow armor.

Where's the Teralyst a inconsistency? The Tenno lost their memories when they went cryostasis. Plus they lost a lot of the technology that they used to destroy the sentients in the fall of the Orokin. The technology and the knowlege they had to wipe the sentients and win the war don't exists anymore. The Tenno wiped the Sentients, not the Warframes. The power of the void and zero tech weapons destroyed the sentients and we use the same thing again to destroy it.

No one knows what happened on the Zariman, only the Tenno. For everyone else, the adults dissapeared and only the children survived. Only now we are discovering what happened inside the Zariman. A multitude of things could happen to the bodies. Eaten, throwed into space, taken by the void. Anything. We don't have enough information about the Zariman incident to talk about inconsistency.

Lower classes and castes could have common names and high rank common soldiers could use berets. Specialy since Kaleen (its not a common name) was a Inspector and no one told her the truth.

Void Era = The era of Void Exploration

Orokin Era= The entire era when the system was under the rule of the Orokin Empire.

In real life, exists the Space Age that comprises the time of the Space Exploration, however the Space Age exists inside the Information Age that started in 1945.

Rhino codex doesn't happen right after the Zariman recovery. It happens when they discover the conection between the Tenno and the Warframes and the possibility to use the Tenno as weapons. That means everything that happened with Margulis don't change nothing in the Rhino Prime Codex. Even Margulis said they put the Tenno on a "dream" to prevent them to hurt everyone with their powers. When Margullis created the Transference, NO ONE had the idea to use it as a weapon. Only after Dave discoved the conection.

In fact, looks like there's a good space of time between Margulis treatment, her death and the Rhino Prime codex.

And they could create schools, create weapons and an entire culture using Warframes instead of their normal bodies. They could create the entire Tenno culture using Warframes. Nothing says they created the Tenno culture as childrens. And the schools are pretty much ways of life. Not real schools. I don't see how small children would forge weapons and create temples.

 

[ChaoticEdge]

orokin is human, if they aren't human, wouldn't they look soo funky that look like super deform human?  As saying, they are human because all is always one way link to be and to be it is for to stay as be.  Recorder of quest like war within, second dream and harrow's quest.  Simply to be, orokin is human, but the sentient is something else.  The sentient doesn't have a body, possible could have a soul, for that the sentient l think the sentient where the dead go, but possible for anything can be possible or we have to go deep in the sentient history they could be the one called "the man behind the wall", for not many sentient outlived in the void.  I ask where did they learn harnest these tech before the orokin and why they prove they are immortal then they are?  Discovering slow and painful to be, the sentient have to be from the void to gather power there and make endless supplies of sentients, but can't re-enter back the void because they harnest the void that much vast of it.  Reading the lore the sentient are burning alive still and lived such pain for the longest point.

Orokin think as human still with surpremse that why it tells stories of inaros having the children snatch by the orokins which they don't know the war within still, for they were creating soldiers to fight the sentients for the longest period of time, which it include nearly all the warframe.  A manufactors soldiers of bio and tech and never harnest the nano fully until few test with large crew members and many run test to have cure for quite long time and the orokin people did surived and there nidus created some sort cure for it an surpress of the nanoites of these spore creatures.  I am assumed they are 100% humans but inhuman choses.

The great sins the orokin have done, won't be told of many, they are like the roman people take and force them to served the orokins accept more deep tyrant rules to be, it served and show how ruthless they are to be and how much they cause such calamities in their orders that made the tenno to turn which all thanks to lotus the pretender of mothers, for I believed lotus found her dead and mimic her form and gave up on sentient tempory until she made final chose to stay as as the one who die and cared of the children and not call by magoolus or her old name, but lotus.

Lotus and magoolu were to say one the same to be accept stories untold about certant kids who have different unheard warframe.  May their warframe be heard once more

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

As the Council of Seven, meaning the seven executors, if they are the rulers of the empire, they are the emperors. Since we're talking about an empire.

Archimedians are not a class, they are a caste.

The Dax lore from Simaris don't contradict the fragment lore at all. Dax Soldiers were the elite before the Tenno arrived. They're the best the Orokin Empire had, thats why you see them around Sectarus and Executor class. Check Simaris codex and everytime the Dax are mentioned, they're following high class Orokin. In Octavia Anthem novel, you see Dax guarding Suda. They were never the "standard troop" from the Orokin Era.

Based on Simaris codex, Orokin used Corrupted, and common soldiers like Lorists before the Dax or put the Dax as commanders of these common soldiers (Ancient Healer). And looks like only high ranking Orokin could give them orders.

We never saw a Sentient spaceship. Only a small dropship that carries small sentients and Hunhow that is a "living being", its not confirmed if he is a ship.

The Warframe IS build around the Tenno. You only took it literally and tought it was a hollow armor.

Where's the Teralyst a inconsistency? The Tenno lost their memories when they went cryostasis. Plus they lost a lot of the technology that they used to destroy the sentients in the fall of the Orokin. The technology and the knowlege they had to wipe the sentients and win the war don't exists anymore. The Tenno wiped the Sentients, not the Warframes. The power of the void and zero tech weapons destroyed the sentients and we use the same thing again to destroy it.

No one knows what happened on the Zariman, only the Tenno. For everyone else, the adults dissapeared and only the children survived. Only now we are discovering what happened inside the Zariman. A multitude of things could happen to the bodies. Eaten, throwed into space, taken by the void. Anything. We don't have enough information about the Zariman incident to talk about inconsistency.

Lower classes and castes could have common names and high rank common soldiers could use berets. Specialy since Kaleen (its not a common name) was a Inspector and no one told her the truth.

Void Era = The era of Void Exploration

Orokin Era= The entire era when the system was under the rule of the Orokin Empire.

In real life, exists the Space Age that comprises the time of the Space Exploration, however the Space Age exists inside the Information Age that started in 1945.

Rhino codex doesn't happen right after the Zariman recovery. It happens when they discover the conection between the Tenno and the Warframes and the possibility to use the Tenno as weapons. That means everything that happened with Margulis don't change nothing in the Rhino Prime Codex. Even Margulis said they put the Tenno on a "dream" to prevent them to hurt everyone with their powers. When Margullis created the Transference, NO ONE had the idea to use it as a weapon. Only after Dave discoved the conection.

In fact, looks like there's a good space of time between Margulis treatment, her death and the Rhino Prime codex.

And they could create schools, create weapons and an entire culture using Warframes instead of their normal bodies. They could create the entire Tenno culture using Warframes. Nothing says they created the Tenno culture as childrens. And the schools are pretty much ways of life. Not real schools. I don't see how small children would forge weapons and create temples.

 

First of all, the Executors are not called Emperors, nor do they act like they're Emperors. So no, they aren't emperors. The emperors were described by Stalker as cold and gold. While the Executors have gold irises, they most certainly are not cold, according to the Simaris lore and the post-TSD lore. The Simaris lore has them bickering among one another, enjoying privilege, and freely interacting with lower classes. And TSD has Ballas being a lover. That's not cold. So I think that's an inconsistency between the old lore and the post-Simaris lore. I do think all the recent lore basically makes them the rulers of the empire, though.

Archimedians, Sectarus, Enginus, and Executor were all classes, as per the Simaris lore. The lore specifically calls them classes.

Besides the Mag Prime lore, which mentions zero-tech soldiers, nothing else mentions any soldiers besides Dax. And the way the Sectarus class speaks to the Dax, they're not special soldiers. So that's up for debate. Regardless, the Dax in the Codex are clearly not like Teshin at all.

Fair point about the Orokin using Corrupted, but Lorists weren't really soldiers. They were non-combat medics essentially. Nothing even suggests they are armed.

Sentient worm ships are mentioned in the Mag Prime Codex entry and the Hidden Messages quest.

The Warframes are not built around the Tenno at all. I don't think you understand what built around means. That's not a figurative statement.

You fail to understand the lore if you think the Tenno destroyed the Sentients without their Warframes. The lore confirms that 1) only Void powers and zero-tech weapons harm Sentients, 2) Warframe powers were Void powers (before DE decided to make Warframe powers separate from Tenno Void powers), 3) the Tenno destroyed the Sentients using their Warframes, and 4) the Tenno never woke up during the Orokin era, meaning they couldn't jump out of their Warframes to fight the Sentients.

Not only that, but nothing says that they had special weapons besides Warframes and zero-tech weapons to destroy the Sentients. Nothing says the technology and knowledge to fight the Sentients was lost. We know what was used to fight and destroy the Sentients. Go read Excalibur's Codex entry again. The Warframes, with gun and blade, destroyed the Sentients. The Tenno are not using the same thing to fight the Sentients as they did during the Old War. During the Old War, they used their Warframes and zero-tech weapons. Now, they, for some unexplained reason, have to jump out of their Warframes to disable Sentient shields, even though they never did this during the Old War (please don't ask me how I know this - I already explained it).

The Ember Prime Codex entry clearly demonstrates that the crew was gone, with only the children remaining. That's all they found on the ship. The entry doesn't say they found the crew dead. It says they were gone. Kaleen specifically says they thought the ship was empty. The Rell comic, however, suggests no such thing. The adults are still on the ship when the kids leave. Not only that, but the Ember Prime Codex entry doesn't suggest that the children (they were children, not teenagers btw) were afraid. The Rell comic does not suggest that. And then there's another thing. The Rell comic, and post-TSD lore as a whole, suggests that the Tenno were in full control of their powers (Rell is shown with clear mastery of his Void beam). This is not at all what the Ember Prime Codex entry suggests. The Codex lore suggests that the Tenno had no control over their powers, and that just by mere contact with a Tenno, a non-Tenno would be left extremely scarred. Kaleen's right eye was bright and blinking, her left eye was a greasy slit, her skin was burned moon-white, her mouth was a sagging gash without lips or expression, and her scalp was scarred and hairless. This was the effect of the Tenno's innate Void power. The post-TSD lore does not suggest this inherent dangerous nature of the Tenno.

Kaleen is a common Czechslovakian name, from a Slavic word meaning 'flower'. Not sure why you think that isn't a common name.

I guess it's possible that the Void era could be considered the Void era of the Orokin empire. I'll give you that one. Either way, the way the zero-tech soldiers in the Mag Prime codex refer to the time of the "void era" suggests that it was a long time ago. It doesn't seem to be something they remember. It's just the way they refer to it, as though it's something distant.

While you say that there's a great deal of time between Margulis' death and the Transference being discovered, Silvana knew Margulis. So that'd make her very old if there was a significant amount of time between Margulis and Transference. And Silvana doesn't sound old at all, unless she's supposed to be immortal like the Orokin. And we know the Archimedians are not Orokin, as Margulis, an Archimedian like Silvana, doesn't consider herself an Orokin. So either there's an inconsistency with the suggested time between the Void era and Transference, or Margulis and Silvana are immortal or have very, very long lifespans.

And finally, the Tenno schools are the Focus schools, which require the Operators briefly hopping out of their Warframes. After they tear that system apart, it'll literally require the Operators to hop out of their Warframes as long as they want. This is something that they can only do after they've woken up from their "second dream." That's inconsistent with the lore, which is pretty clear that 1) they only truly became the Warframe-armored Tenno after they went to sleep, and 2) they didn't wake up until The Second Dream. There is no way that the Tenno could've founded schools based on their Operator powers. I'm not talking about the pre-TSD lore where the Tenno were weaponsmiths and formed Orokin-era clans and such. I'm talking specifically about the Focus schools, which are all about the Operator powers. The Lotus, at the end of TSD, specifically says that the Tenno founded these schools during the Orokin era.

So, I'm sorry, but I think most of what you said is not accurate.

 

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

We have no clear proof but my thoughts are that tenno are mixture of children of the orokin an arkamedians.  Since the ship would need people knowledgable an also of high social standing to make sure that people did what there job entailed.

orokin are all adults transplanting there minds into younger hosts once there bodies start failing them or when feel unhappy with there current vessel. As in the war within there was hints towards this.
Orokin pretty much seem more like a title from what the lore tells us, as they swap bodies quite often an so with that when they have kids not really of "their" bloodline but of the vessels.

[Dama73]

17 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

I would say Orokin is the next stage of human in evolution line.

The Orokin represented Stagnation over Evolution in my opinion, they essentially achieved a form of immortality by becoming Bodysnatchers, kind of like the Cylons in nu-Battlestar Galactica, if one "died" they woke up in another body, one that they likely bought before hand from what were essentially "slave/body markets" (as alluded to by Teshin during war within).

 

But as Appolyon stated earlier the lore on the Orokin is a contradictory mess right now so nothing is for certain.

[Lady_Xenomorph]

Orokin arre human with an advanced technology and genetic level. First of all the game set in the solar system which indicates the whole game story set in a human like future.

Other fact all of the other races are humans aswell but they are in a different point of view and on a different technological set. The grineer are the cloned humans whom degraded by the time of the constant cloning. Corpus are a technologicaly cybernetically advanced human race whom prefer the robotic workforce and they compensate their disadvantages with the high tech, also they are merchants and they are the warfame's caldari race because of their society and their relation with the profit.

The infested is a biotechnological hazard which used in the great war in purpose to destroy the enemy forces but they not calculated this plague uncontrollable and some day hit back. This is the main reason why they created the warframes because somebody needed to fight against them.

Sentients are orokin creations because they are the thinking machines which whom adopted to the environment and got self identity somehow. These machines originally created to terraform and make colonies on planets which are not suitable for human life but something happend with them during the time and they turned against their creators and currently we are in this point to fight against all faction whom try to controll the known systems.

The tenno are humans aswell whom touched by the void and got inhuman abilities. In this game there is no non human race because the whole story based on some of the fictions which only set humans in the center and use the idea we are alone in the universe. Unless DE make some new faction which are non human then the game universe can be improve in that direction.

[Mints]

9 hours ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Thats simple. Even Orokins looks like humans. Last time Hunhow was active was during the Old War, he doesn't know about Corpus or Grineer or anything that happened after the war. Its understandable that he thinks Alad V. To him, they are all human and the same thing.

I'm not so sure about that. Vauban Prime's trailer implies that the Corpus existed well before The Collapse as a distinct social caste of merchant cultists. Ballas' commentary in that trailer involves keeping them in check, which may be the first time we've had a confirmed instance of a Warframe being designed to kill something other than Infested or Sentients. The Grineer existed then as well, just not heavily militarized. I find it hard to process that Hunhow, who has detailed information on The Collapse down to the Naga Drum Ceremony, would mistake a human for an Orokin on accident or through simple ignorance. I'm wondering if we have more in common with Alad V than we realize, with our lost memories and forgotten legacy.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Mints

[--F--NerevarCM]

6 hours ago, Mints said:

I'm not so sure about that. Vauban Prime's trailer implies that the Corpus existed well before The Collapse as a distinct social caste of merchant cultists. Ballas' commentary in that trailer involves keeping them in check, which may be the first time we've had a confirmed instance of a Warframe being designed to kill something other than Infested or Sentients. The Grineer existed then as well, just not heavily militarized. I find it hard to process that Hunhow, who has detailed information on The Collapse down to the Naga Drum Ceremony, would mistake a human for an Orokin on accident or through simple ignorance. I'm wondering if we have more in common with Alad V than we realize, with our lost memories and forgotten legacy.

Nope, the Archimedians was planning an revolution against the Orokin using remote factories to create a drone army. They used the Old War as a way to cover their actions from the Orokin and thats why Vauban was created. During the Orokin Era, Corpus was just a term for family or kin.

And the Archimedians and Orokin that survived the Collapse created small colonies specialized in lost tech recovery. All these colonies joined together to create the Corpus Faction we have today

[Jeoxz]

Orokin were human that advanced technology and used Luca to be immortal. There's no confirmation that the Tenno were Orokin but there's a high chance (But they don't look like Ballas Concept art (but that concept may change or maybe that's an adult Orokin))

[OniDax]

2 hours ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Nope, the Archimedians was planning an revolution against the Orokin using remote factories to create a drone army. They used the Old War as a way to cover their actions from the Orokin and thats why Vauban was created. During the Orokin Era, Corpus was just a term for family or kin.

And the Archimedians and Orokin that survived the Collapse created small colonies specialized in lost tech recovery. All these colonies joined together to create the Corpus Faction we have today

Nothing says that at all.

[--F--NerevarCM]

2 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Nothing says that at all.

1- There's no Simaris entry or any Orokin Era lore that talks about the Corpus as a group, race or corporation, the only place when the word Corpus is mentioned in the Orokin era lore is the Detron Crewman and the Anti-Moa entry here:

Ballas turned his head as the judgement disc went suddenly dark, “An appeal comes at a price. Should you fail, you and your corpus will pay dearly.” (Detron Crewman Synthesis)

“What about your corpus, don’t you miss them? Your father?” I say. (Anti-Moa Synthesis)

“Umpal is corpus to us, we can’t abandon him.” I shout.

2- Lookin exactly at Vauban Prime trailer. Ballas create Vauban to set a eye upon the Archimedians using remote factories to create drones during the war for a unknow purpose. Here:

"These industrialists have gorged on the harvest of our long war. Their mind drones; Their mechanizations, toil in foundries remote. For what purpose? We must set watch upon them." (Vauban Prime Trailer)

Yes, nothing says about an uprising, but why would they create hidden factories to create hidden drones without the consent or knowlege of the Orokin?

3-Again, Anti-Moa codex, the entire codex tells the history of a children with possibly an Orokin father that survived the war and the fall of the empre. They're transporting scavenged resources and tech between survivor colonies.

Before we left Umpal and I drew wires to see which one of us got to bring the robot we were building, I won. It was bits and pieces of scavenged Orokin tech slammed together but it was a robot and it could walk, Father didn’t think much of it but I was proud. I hoped to trade it for some rare parts when we hit the colony, enough to build a bigger second walker. Maybe even one that could carry a full size cannon.

Here:

These trips were dangerous but Father said it was essential I learn the business. The whole convoy is loaded down with items we have scraped together through months of local trade. It was mostly salvage, with some Ferrite spread between the different transports. Rumor was that Umpal’s transport might even have some rubedo in the hold. We are heading to another survivor colony a few nodes away.

Now checking Corpus description:

The Corpus are a merchant cult, built on the foundation of salvaged technology and robotics. They scavenge the outer systems, greedy for the Old War salvage.

Now lets check everything:

Group of survivors from the Orokin Empire

Scavenge lost tech and resources from the Old War battle fields and abandoned Orokin structures

Have MOAs and use trade as main business

Use the word Corpus to identify their kin

Who else could be? Anti-Moa entry shows the start of the Corpus, first they were a group of survivors from the Orokin era selling resources between colonies of survivors, now they're the same thing, only bigger and more advanced.

You can say that the Archimedians are Corpus, but they never used this name to indentify themselves, only after the Great Collapse and the fall of the Orokin Empire they group together to form the Corpus faction.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by -SDM-NerevarCM

[Radiorude]

I'm new to Warframe and have been looking for that kind of post since I got deeper into the lore. This might be slightly off-topic yet it might pique somebody's interest, so here goes.
 

The more I found out about its storyline, the more it seemed to me Warframe was Digital Extremes' take and twist on the interventionist theory of human evolution, heralded most notably by Zecharia Sitchin from his 12th planet book onwards. He offers an interesting interpretation of Sumerian clay tablets as well as those of younger civilizations.

The hypothesis is that there is a 12th planet, called Nibiru, in the solar system (the moon and sun counting as planets in Sumerian culture) from which a highly-advanced human-like species originates : the Anunnaki. They came to Earth for one particular reason which was to mine gold. Sitchin argues they needed it to turn it into dust and inject it into Nibiru's atmosphere to possibly increase the greenhouse effect there. Homo Sapiens was the product of a genetic manipulation involving Anunnaki and pre-sapiens hominoid genomes for the sole purpose of gold mining (there were too few Anunnaki workers on-site and the work was too hard).

He further argues that Nibiru's eliptical orbit is 3600 Earth-years long, which in turn caused the hominoid species that evolved there (before hominoids even started to evolve on Earth) to live fantastically-long lives. Much like the average modern man would seem like an immortal god to moths with a day-long life expectancy. Their food and drinks are also said to influence their life expectancy, as well as that of humans who consume them.

On the one hand we have the space-travelling Anunnaki who supposedly needed the gold for survival, created mankind to mine it, and live such long lives that they seem immortal. They are referred to as gods in the early cultures of the Tigris, Euphrates, Nile and Indus valleys.

On the other hand are the space-travelling Orokin, Oro-Kin, literally People of the Gold -oro is spanish for gold- _{even though one could possibly understand oro from its latin meaning relative to mouth and speech, which, while remaining a fascinating interpretation, would lead us further off-topic}.The Orokin are fascinated by gold, yet it is unclear whether they actually need it at all. They have achieved immortality through the use of some sort of food or drink (Kuva). They are often referred to as gods.

I haven't read all of his works, but as far as I'm aware, Sitchin says nothing about the disappearance of the Anunnaki from Earth. I consider it to be up to speculation and that is where DE takes it further, with yet other cultural references. The Orokin's downfall comes in the form of sentient machines, which reminds us of The Matrix or the replicators from Stargate SG-1, which only balistic weapons seem to halt. In his Dune series, Frank Herbert also tells of a universe where highly-advanced technology has caused mankind to revert back to sword-fight (laser-based weaponry and personal energy shields are common in Dune yet when one strikes the other, a nuclear explosion occurs).

Going back to the question at hand, I would argue the Orokin are what human Earth-dwellers could become in many thousands of years. Their taste for gold lingering from the forgotten days of their creation. But then again what is the definition of human nature ? And what's with human fascination with gold ?

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

1- There's no Simaris entry or any Orokin Era lore that talks about the Corpus as a group, race or corporation, the only place when the word Corpus is mentioned in the Orokin era lore is the Detron Crewman and the Anti-Moa entry here:

Ballas turned his head as the judgement disc went suddenly dark, “An appeal comes at a price. Should you fail, you and your corpus will pay dearly.” (Detron Crewman Synthesis)

“What about your corpus, don’t you miss them? Your father?” I say. (Anti-Moa Synthesis)

“Umpal is corpus to us, we can’t abandon him.” I shout.

2- Lookin exactly at Vauban Prime trailer. Ballas create Vauban to set a eye upon the Archimedians using remote factories to create drones during the war for a unknow purpose. Here:

"These industrialists have gorged on the harvest of our long war. Their mind drones; Their mechanizations, toil in foundries remote. For what purpose? We must set watch upon them." (Vauban Prime Trailer)

Yes, nothing says about an uprising, but why would they create hidden factories to create hidden drones without the consent or knowlege of the Orokin?

3-Again, Anti-Moa codex, the entire codex tells the history of a children with possibly an Orokin father that survived the war and the fall of the empre. They're transporting scavenged resources and tech between survivor colonies.

Before we left Umpal and I drew wires to see which one of us got to bring the robot we were building, I won. It was bits and pieces of scavenged Orokin tech slammed together but it was a robot and it could walk, Father didn’t think much of it but I was proud. I hoped to trade it for some rare parts when we hit the colony, enough to build a bigger second walker. Maybe even one that could carry a full size cannon.

Here:

These trips were dangerous but Father said it was essential I learn the business. The whole convoy is loaded down with items we have scraped together through months of local trade. It was mostly salvage, with some Ferrite spread between the different transports. Rumor was that Umpal’s transport might even have some rubedo in the hold. We are heading to another survivor colony a few nodes away.

Now checking Corpus description:

The Corpus are a merchant cult, built on the foundation of salvaged technology and robotics. They scavenge the outer systems, greedy for the Old War salvage.

Now lets check everything:

Group of survivors from the Orokin Empire

Scavenge lost tech and resources from the Old War battle fields and abandoned Orokin structures

Have MOAs and use trade as main business

Use the word Corpus to identify their kin

Who else could be? Anti-Moa entry shows the start of the Corpus, first they were a group of survivors from the Orokin era selling resources between colonies of survivors, now they're the same thing, only bigger and more advanced.

You can say that the Archimedians are Corpus, but they never used this name to indentify themselves, only after the Great Collapse and the fall of the Orokin Empire they group together to form the Corpus faction.

 

 

Where does the Vauban Prime trailer say that they are Archimedians? The Archimedians are not a corpus. They are a class. There are probably many, many, many corpora of Archimedians. You misunderstand the Orokin familial and class systems.

Oh, and you're entirely wrong about the Corpus wanting to revolt against the Orokin. There's a reason the Corpus call the Tenno "the Betrayers." The Corpus, despite their exile by the Seven, were not anti-Orokin. Do you want to know what the purpose of the Corpus was? Play the game. Look at what the Corpus are doing now. Look at what the lore says they're doing (the post-Orokin era lore). The Corpus were building these factories and proxies to profit off of conflict. Most likely, they would've been selling these machines to various colonies and profiting off of conflict between them.

Here is some evidence:

Corpus Weapons (Cephalon Fragment lore):

Quote

Weapons research and manufacturing is a large component of Corpus industry. Their designs are clean and precisely engineered, and they are the largest supplier of energy-based weapons in the solar system. These cunning profiteers prefer to avoid conflict in times of war, dealing arms indiscriminately to any side that can afford the price.

Perrin Sequence lore:

Quote

A collective of brilliant and powerful merchants, splintered from the Corpus. Their goal is to restore order by bringing prosperity and direction to the violent world they study.

Following their own doctrine to achieve Profit, The Perrin Sequence have turned away from the Corpus ideology that conflict must be capitalized upon. Instead these merchants search for ways to exercise their trade without instigating violence.

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[--F--NerevarCM]

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

First of all, the Executors are not called Emperors, nor do they act like they're Emperors. So no, they aren't emperors. The emperors were described by Stalker as cold and gold. While the Executors have gold irises, they most certainly are not cold, according to the Simaris lore and the post-TSD lore. The Simaris lore has them bickering among one another, enjoying privilege, and freely interacting with lower classes. And TSD has Ballas being a lover. That's not cold. So I think that's an inconsistency between the old lore and the post-Simaris lore. I do think all the recent lore basically makes them the rulers of the empire, though.

Or "cold" means white skin, you know. They had perfect white skin with golden adornments and irises, cold and gold. Besides, Ballas only showed affection towards Margullis while she accepted the Orokin rules. When she turned against Ballas, he executed her. It was really cold of him on that regard, including calling Archimedians of abominations.

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Archimedians, Sectarus, Enginus, and Executor were all classes, as per the Simaris lore. The lore specifically calls them classes.

Of all these, Archimedian is the only one I didn't read being called class. Instead, when someone talk about an Archimedian they talk about them as a race instead of class. Example:

"I... I can't believe this. The Silver Grove isn't natural at all... It's just another abomination, made by some delusional Archimedian. (Silver Grove Quest)

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Besides the Mag Prime lore, which mentions zero-tech soldiers, nothing else mentions any soldiers besides Dax. And the way the Sectarus class speaks to the Dax, they're not special soldiers. So that's up for debate. Regardless, the Dax in the Codex are clearly not like Teshin at all.

Well, they see as trash anyone below them. To them, even if Dax were the best, they were only tools.

And on the Ancient Healer synthesis, Ontella says that he had command authority but soldiers would follow Dex Menz if he balked. Meaning that existed common soldier and Sargeants below the rank of Dax and even the Lorists. And they even commanded MOAs. Here:

Hesitation was building in Menz’s face. I had command authority but if he balked, the soldiers would follow him. I needed to force his support, “If you were Tenno, there’d be no question.”

"A sergeant was slashed through the leg and I directed my energy toward him, his wound closed and he resumed fighting. "

“Square formation!” Menz commanded. We backed up to a wall and the Moa’s moved to form a perimeter, with the bodyguards behind them and me in the middle."

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Fair point about the Orokin using Corrupted, but Lorists weren't really soldiers. They were non-combat medics essentially. Nothing even suggests they are armed.

Nope, there diffents types of Lorists, Remballa and Ontella were Healer Lorists, there is Combat Lorists. Here:

"I opened my eyes to see the Moa’s beams incinerate the last few attackers. I was drained. I wasn’t a combat Lorist, Remballa and I were relief workers, used in disasters and outbreaks, not this."

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Sentient worm ships are mentioned in the Mag Prime Codex entry and the Hidden Messages quest.

Yes but we never saw one. The only thing that looks like a ship is Hunhow, and he is a Brood Ship (don't even know if this is canon). Every other thing that attack us is his fragments. We never saw an Sentient spaceship, attack ship or transport ship. Hunhow is small compared to a standard size ship or a big ship like the Corpus Obelisk class or the Grineer Balor Fomorian Class. Meaning that something bigger carried the Sentients through the solar rails.

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

The Warframes are not built around the Tenno at all. I don't think you understand what built around means. That's not a figurative statement.

They're pretty much a lens built around the Tenno power to focuse and give it a form.

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

You fail to understand the lore if you think the Tenno destroyed the Sentients without their Warframes. The lore confirms that 1) only Void powers and zero-tech weapons harm Sentients, 2) Warframe powers were Void powers (before DE decided to make Warframe powers separate from Tenno Void powers), 3) the Tenno destroyed the Sentients using their Warframes, and 4) the Tenno never woke up during the Orokin era, meaning they couldn't jump out of their Warframes to fight the Sentients.

And you failed to understand what I said. I didn't said the Tenno didn't used the Warframes. I said it wasn't the specifically the Warframe that kill the sentient, is the void power that kills them.

Yes, only Void Powers and Zero Tech harm Sentients like you said and yes, Warframe power is Void Power, but DE never separated both. The Tenno uses RAW Void power, the Warframe focuses this raw Void energy into Void powers.

Vor says that since Vor Prize was added in the game. Here:

• "We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light."

 And Second Dream only confirmed it. The Tenno is only a uncontrollable Void battery, the Warframe gives form to the energy and create powers.

Yes, they never woke up and never jump out of their Warframes, they didn't need to. Because every Warframe power is Void power and harm the Sentients. IDK why this don't happen fisically in the game tho

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Not only that, but nothing says that they had special weapons besides Warframes and zero-tech weapons to destroy the Sentients. Nothing says the technology and knowledge to fight the Sentients was lost. We know what was used to fight and destroy the Sentients. Go read Excalibur's Codex entry again. The Warframes, with gun and blade, destroyed the Sentients. The Tenno are not using the same thing to fight the Sentients as they did during the Old War. During the Old War, they used their Warframes and zero-tech weapons. Now, they, for some unexplained reason, have to jump out of their Warframes to disable Sentient shields, even though they never did this during the Old War (please don't ask me how I know this - I already explained it).

I'm not talking about all the Sentients, I'm talking exclusevly about the Teralyst. Like I said: In game mechanics don't behave like the lore. If it followed the lore, the Teralyst should die in the first Ash Bladestorm or any other power, since Warframe power are void power.

Plus, the Teralys didn't existed in the Old War, he's just a amalgamation of old Sentient pieces from a dead Sentient. We need to wait for the update to see why we can't kill him with Warframe powers, maybe the reason is all that Sentient energy scattered across the plains.

16 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

The Ember Prime Codex entry clearly demonstrates that the crew was gone, with only the children remaining. That's all they found on the ship. The entry doesn't say they found the crew dead. It says they were gone. Kaleen specifically says they thought the ship was empty. The Rell comic, however, suggests no such thing. The adults are still on the ship when the kids leave. 

The crew was gone when they found the ship. Rell comic happens during the time that Zariman was lost, maybe flying through the Void alone, depending on when this happens during that time, the adults were still alive. Now we know that :

Zariman disappears -> Adults goes insane -> Kids gain powers -> Something happens/No info on this timeframe -> Zariman is found, all adults gone, only the kids found.

Rell comic doesn't show when they were rescued or when they leave the ship. They were just running to another part of the ship when the adults found them. Because they were too far away.

16 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Not only that, but the Ember Prime Codex entry doesn't suggest that the children (they were children, not teenagers btw) were afraid. The Rell comic does not suggest that. And then there's another thing. The Rell comic, and post-TSD lore as a whole, suggests that the Tenno were in full control of their powers (Rell is shown with clear mastery of his Void beam).

Rell was different, and he is the only one that uses his powers in the comic. Plus, Rell was casted away by Margulis, maybe because he was autistic or because he had a conection with the "Man in the Wall". Both options could give him better control on the Void energy.

16 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

This is not at all what the Ember Prime Codex entry suggests. The Codex lore suggests that the Tenno had no control over their powers, and that just by mere contact with a Tenno, a non-Tenno would be left extremely scarred. Kaleen's right eye was bright and blinking, her left eye was a greasy slit, her skin was burned moon-white, her mouth was a sagging gash without lips or expression, and her scalp was scarred and hairless. This was the effect of the Tenno's innate Void power. The post-TSD lore does not suggest this inherent dangerous nature of the Tenno.

Silver Grove Quest:

"My childhood dream has become a nightmare. I don't blame Margulis, she's as much a victim as the children we're working with. At first, the project seemed therapeutic and nurturing. I was myself. But now... Transference therapy is being turned into a weapon.

They still don't have control of their powers, thats why the Transference was a therapy. And they're still called children, not teenagers.

16 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Kaleen is a common Czechslovakian name, from a Slavic word meaning 'flower'. Not sure why you think that isn't a common name.

Didn't knew that, I'm brazilian and this name is really uncommon to me or even in South America.

16 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

I guess it's possible that the Void era could be considered the Void era of the Orokin empire. I'll give you that one. Either way, the way the zero-tech soldiers in the Mag Prime codex refer to the time of the "void era" suggests that it was a long time ago. It doesn't seem to be something they remember. It's just the way they refer to it, as though it's something distant.

Maybe they don't. But on Ancient Healer synthesis, Lorist Ontella says he/she is connected with Remballa for a century and half. Meaning that a normal lifespan in the Orokin Empire could be bigger than 2 or 3 centuries, and only a small part of the population had the capability of living forever or for a long time.

16 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

While you say that there's a great deal of time between Margulis' death and the Transference being discovered, Silvana knew Margulis. So that'd make her very old if there was a significant amount of time between Margulis and Transference. And Silvana doesn't sound old at all, unless she's supposed to be immortal like the Orokin. And we know the Archimedians are not Orokin, as Margulis, an Archimedian like Silvana, doesn't consider herself an Orokin. So either there's an inconsistency with the suggested time between the Void era and Transference, or Margulis and Silvana are immortal or have very, very long lifespans.

Nope, I said there's a great deal of time between Transference creation and the discovery of a conection between the Tenno and Warframes. And being old is not a problem for anyone in the Orokin Empire. Like I said, Ontella had at least 150 years and he was just a Lorist.

Archimedians had really long lifespans, even Darvo have a huge lifespan, but they aren't immortal like the Orokin.

16 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

And finally, the Tenno schools are the Focus schools, which require the Operators briefly hopping out of their Warframes. After they tear that system apart, it'll literally require the Operators to hop out of their Warframes as long as they want. This is something that they can only do after they've woken up from their "second dream." That's inconsistent with the lore, which is pretty clear that 1) they only truly became the Warframe-armored Tenno after they went to sleep, and 2) they didn't wake up until The Second Dream. There is no way that the Tenno could've founded schools based on their Operator powers. I'm not talking about the pre-TSD lore where the Tenno were weaponsmiths and formed Orokin-era clans and such. I'm talking specifically about the Focus schools, which are all about the Operator powers. The Lotus, at the end of TSD, specifically says that the Tenno founded these schools during the Orokin era.

Again, in game mechanics differ from lore. The Tenno Schools or the Tenno ways are the code of the Tenno society. It doesn't exists only to the Operator. The Tenno Ways change how the Tenno use his Void Powers, but is not the only thing it was made for. Its pretty much the foundation of the Tenno culture and is in line with the blacksmithing and clans.

This is, again the difference between lore and in game mechanics. DE wanted to make something for the Operator, so they used the Tenno Ways for that. Plus, each Tenno Way name follows the name of a great Tenno clan. Like Steve said when they made the Starchart.

[Mints]

7 hours ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Nope, the Archimedians was planning an revolution against the Orokin using remote factories to create a drone army. They used the Old War as a way to cover their actions from the Orokin and thats why Vauban was created. During the Orokin Era, Corpus was just a term for family or kin.

And the Archimedians and Orokin that survived the Collapse created small colonies specialized in lost tech recovery. All these colonies joined together to create the Corpus Faction we have today

Whether they were called Corpus or Archimedians at the time that's still evidence of distinct social castes and titles from Hunhow's perspective. Hunhow knew enough about society under the Orokin Empire to send Natah as an infiltration unit, I don't know why he would neglect a major factor like separate distinct social castes especially if they were at war at the time. That would be something a strategist would be looking to capitalize on right?

Maybe I'm just overly reluctant to consider the possibility that Hunhow is an overconfident and underinformed half-wit.

[--F--NerevarCM]

8 minutes ago, Mints said:

Whether they were called Corpus or Archimedians at the time that's still evidence of distinct social castes and titles from Hunhow's perspective. Hunhow knew enough about society under the Orokin Empire to send Natah as an infiltration unit, I don't know why he would neglect a major factor like separate distinct social castes especially if they were at war at the time. That would be something a strategist would be looking to capitalize on right?

Maybe I'm just overly reluctant to consider the possibility that Hunhow is an overconfident and underinformed half-wit.

Well, the Corpus say they're descendant of the Orokin. And they are right, check Anti-Moa synthesis. But since we only know that the Orokin had perfect beauty, white skin and golden irises, we don't know for sure how much the Corpus looks like the Orokin.

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

I don't really have much to add here but the Orokin Orokin (The Executors and stuff) didn't like the castes mixing. The Zariman was indeed a ship built by the Orokin and had Orokin on-board. Why would they send lesser people on a ship with advanced technology beyond belief to a new solar system?

[--F--NerevarCM]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)AntiCaesar said:

I don't really have much to add here but the Orokin Orokin (The Executors and stuff) didn't like the castes mixing. The Zariman was indeed a ship built by the Orokin and had Orokin on-board. Why would they send lesser people on a ship with advanced technology beyond belief to a new solar system?

Some people say that the Zariman Incident wasn't an accident. It was a colony ship, maybe made to flight to Tau and colonize the system. They wouldn't send the Executors or any other Orokin in a dangerous mission through lots of solar rails to a place they don't know if it was terraformed or if even had infrastructure to sustain life.

Thats why they sent the Sentients, they are machines and could adapt to almost everything.

Its better to send low rank/ low caste people to colonize the system and see if everything is fine and then send the Orokin. But looks like Zariman didn't even reached Outer Terminus after it made the jump from Saturn's solar rail.

Now why an state-of-art Orokin ship would fail like that doing such a small jump that every other ship should do all the time is really intriguing

[Vesiga]

This is Ballas.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ballas 

So I assume quite a lot of orokin look like him. 
Some kind of extremely evolved human?
either way super creepy

[OniDax]

8 hours ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Or "cold" means white skin, you know. They had perfect white skin with golden adornments and irises, cold and gold. Besides, Ballas only showed affection towards Margullis while she accepted the Orokin rules. When she turned against Ballas, he executed her. It was really cold of him on that regard, including calling Archimedians of abominations.

Of all these, Archimedian is the only one I didn't read being called class. Instead, when someone talk about an Archimedian they talk about them as a race instead of class. Example:

"I... I can't believe this. The Silver Grove isn't natural at all... It's just another abomination, made by some delusional Archimedian. (Silver Grove

Didn't knew that, I'm brazilian and this name is really uncommon to me or even in South America.

The Archimedians are not the Corpus. Maybe your being Brazilian (language barrier? English is your second language?) might be why you're having trouble with this, but 1) the Corpus were a merchant cult situated on Jupiter. 2) None of the Archimedians in the lore (and I seriously mean none) are the Corpus. Margulis is not. Silvana is not. Perintol is not. The Archimedian who was the greatest scholar of genetics was not. Suda was not. None of these people were Corpus. None of them were a part of the merchant guild. 3) They talk about Archimedians no different than the Executor, Sectarus, and Enginus classes, but I'll get to that later. 4) The Archimedians are not called abominations. In the Detron Crewman lore, Ballas is saying that the abomination which Perintol created (the Sentient) will be annihilated like Perintol will. In the Silver Grove quest, that is Amaryn referring to the Grove, which is considered another abomination like the Warframe. 5) Ballas does not stop showing affection toward Margulis. But Ballas is bound to follow the Seven Principles, because they consider Orokin law to be sacred.

I understand everything else is up to interpretation (although I still say there are some inconsistencies, particularly with the Sentients and Orokin imperial structure), but I have to clarify the deal about the Archimedians.

Now, you might be correct that the Archimedians are not a class. While the other lore makes no distinction between what the Archimedians are and what the other classes are, the Suda comic mentions an Archimedian oath. So, that's one of two things: 1) the Archimedians are a class, and every class takes an oath specific to that class, or 2) the Archimedians aren't a class but a special order.

Edited September 20, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Watch DE introduce like 10 new alien species in Plains. And that they were already in the relays, just wearing those stupid masks.

Edited September 20, 2017 by (PS4)Tactless_Ninja