Plains of Eidolon Distances & Weapons!

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, tarfeef101 said:

I love all the people b**ching about sway and the overall dmg of snipers, but I use them daily in the highest level missions (endless), and I never have an issue with the sway, even on high zoom levels, nor do I in any way lag behind in damage. Even against melee users. 

I feel like these people need to just actually play with them for an extended period of time rather than a few minutes, not being instantly godly, and complaining.

I agree with you fellow Sniper Tenno Elite.  :D    Honestly I think it has more to do with the run-n-gun gotta-go-fast style that most use when in pubs.  That style of play just doesn't fit with snipers in general.  On the flip side, those who solo or go for a more stealth approach tend to already know the power and usefulness of snipers.  My old clan use to not believe me when I told them that snipers didn't suck.  It took us doing a Sniper only sortie together for them to really notice, and they were all shocked.  

Not saying that snipers are perfect for all situations, but then not all weapons are.  :D

[Fylas]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

I agree with you fellow Sniper Tenno Elite.  :D    Honestly I think it has more to do with the run-n-gun gotta-go-fast style that most use when in pubs.  That style of play just doesn't fit with snipers in general.  On the flip side, those who solo or go for a more stealth approach tend to already know the power and usefulness of snipers.  My old clan use to not believe me when I told them that snipers didn't suck.  It took us doing a Sniper only sortie together for them to really notice, and they were all shocked.  

Not saying that snipers are perfect for all situations, but then not all weapons are.  :D

from the previous post it's more that people , including me, find the sway unnatural and overdone in comparison to how easily warframes effortlessly swing giant melee weapons or pull back bows that fire bows with enough force to pin a 400kg heavy armored grineer super soldier against a several hundred meter distant wall. No longer have any stamina to speak off  and in general are walking mook massacre horror shows that can rip a person in half with the tiniest effort with enough precision and reaction speed they can block up to 85% of all incoming ranged damage by cutting the bullets midair. Yet they are unable to hold their hands halfway stable.... 

The problem isn't scope sway in regular missions. The problem will be scopesway to targets over 800 meters away. I believe at the very least a mod that reduces scope sway by reasonable amounts in return for sacrificing a mod slot would be a acceptable solution.... or maybe some chill pills so the warframe's heart doesn't wham like a wardrum  while trying to aim X_X 

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, Fylas said:

from the previous post it's more that people , including me, find the sway unnatural and overdone in comparison to how easily warframes effortlessly swing giant melee weapons or pull back bows that fire bows with enough force to pin a 400kg heavy armored grineer super soldier against a several hundred meter distant wall. No longer have any stamina to speak off  and in general are walking mook massacre horror shows that can rip a person in half with the tiniest effort with enough precision and reaction speed they can block up to 85% of all incoming ranged damage by cutting the bullets midair. Yet they are unable to hold their hands halfway stable.... 

You know I myself never considered the scope sway to be sensible in this regard either.  I've also wondered why snipers didn't all do bleed procs while having punch-thru to better reflect real world sniper rifles.  Especially in light of what all bows do.  Those were the things that I most thought just didn't make much sense. 

That still didn't/doesn't stop me from liking them almost as much as I do bows.  Rubico use to be my all time favorite sniper rifle, but is now second place to Vectis Prime.  Oh will I have so much fun in the Plains with Rubico, Vectis P, and Daikyu.   Mwuhahahahaha      :)

[Fylas]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

You know I myself never considered the scope sway to be sensible in this regard either.  I've also wondered why snipers didn't all do bleed procs while having punch-thru to better reflect real world sniper rifles.  Especially in light of what all bows do.  Those were the things that I most thought just didn't make much sense. 

That still didn't/doesn't stop me from liking them almost as much as I do bows.  Rubico use to be my all time favorite sniper rifle, but is now second place to Vectis Prime.  Oh will I have so much fun in the Plains with Rubico, Vectis P, and Daikyu.   Mwuhahahahaha      :)

Rubico is gonna get more use for me now that I got this baby~  gets me to 98.6% crit even without critical delay or argon scope X) 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

6 hours ago, Fylas said:

I once did a trick shot of about 700 meters on a patrolling bandit with a ballistic arc patrolling on top of a ruined fort in skyrim after I put in more realistic archery mods and removed the projectile deletion past 300 meters. On first try, it hit him straight between the neck and the shoulder  and killed him in one hit. I couldn't stop grinning for nearly an hour because I was so happy I calculated his movement and the ballistic arc correctly on first try. The effort that goes into hitting long distance with a ballistic weapon like a long bow is what makes a successful hit feel so rewarding in my humble opinion.

Damn true, and very nice:)

[ECOAS12]

On Wed Sep 20 2017 at 6:21 AM, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

What about Flight Speed? Will -flight speed rivens change the falloff range of all hit-scan weapons now, instead of just shotguns?

I want to ask this question too.

[tarfeef101]

12 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I agree with you fellow Sniper Tenno Elite.  :D    Honestly I think it has more to do with the run-n-gun gotta-go-fast style that most use when in pubs.  That style of play just doesn't fit with snipers in general.  On the flip side, those who solo or go for a more stealth approach tend to already know the power and usefulness of snipers.  My old clan use to not believe me when I told them that snipers didn't suck.  It took us doing a Sniper only sortie together for them to really notice, and they were all shocked.  

Not saying that snipers are perfect for all situations, but then not all weapons are.  :D

One one hand I agree with you there, but I can't accept the fast style of the game as an excuse. I use snipers in exterminate (only sorties though, cause ember exists), capture, survival, defense... They can keep up easily. As $&*^ish as it sounds, you kinda just need aim. I'm sure you know what I mean.

11 hours ago, Fylas said:

from the previous post it's more that people , including me, find the sway unnatural and overdone in comparison to how easily warframes effortlessly swing giant melee weapons or pull back bows that fire bows with enough force to pin a 400kg heavy armored grineer super soldier against a several hundred meter distant wall. No longer have any stamina to speak off  and in general are walking mook massacre horror shows that can rip a person in half with the tiniest effort with enough precision and reaction speed they can block up to 85% of all incoming ranged damage by cutting the bullets midair. Yet they are unable to hold their hands halfway stable.... 

The problem isn't scope sway in regular missions. The problem will be scopesway to targets over 800 meters away. I believe at the very least a mod that reduces scope sway by reasonable amounts in return for sacrificing a mod slot would be a acceptable solution.... or maybe some chill pills so the warframe's heart doesn't wham like a wardrum  while trying to aim X_X 

Well, what I suggest here is something a bit more balanced than one of the key downsides to sniper that helps keep them balanced, especially in closer quarters:

A hold breath mechanic. I will continue to say that snipers are perfect for close and medium ranges as is. But for those 800m shots, being able to hold your breath, and stabilize your scope for a few seconds to pop some heads would be a good balance. It makes snipers better for the super long ranges they are capable of, and doesn't make them too easy for close up. Sound fair?

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, tarfeef101 said:

One one hand I agree with you there, but I can't accept the fast style of the game as an excuse. I use snipers in exterminate (only sorties though, cause ember exists), capture, survival, defense... They can keep up easily. As $&*^ish as it sounds, you kinda just need aim. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I agree that it's an argument that has flaws.  But then we also have some that complain about bursa without even bothering to turn off the dang alarms.  If you get what I mean.  Hehe.  :D

[Jobistober]

3 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:

One one hand I agree with you there, but I can't accept the fast style of the game as an excuse. I use snipers in exterminate (only sorties though, cause ember exists), capture, survival, defense... They can keep up easily. As $&*^ish as it sounds, you kinda just need aim. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Well, what I suggest here is something a bit more balanced than one of the key downsides to sniper that helps keep them balanced, especially in closer quarters:

A hold breath mechanic. I will continue to say that snipers are perfect for close and medium ranges as is. But for those 800m shots, being able to hold your breath, and stabilize your scope for a few seconds to pop some heads would be a good balance. It makes snipers better for the super long ranges they are capable of, and doesn't make them too easy for close up. Sound fair?

I don't disagree with you, but the issue I see with that will be finding a suitably placed key bind for holding your breath. I personally would rather see sway reduced greatly or removed entirely, but in the spirit of compromise, perhaps sway could be compensated for while crouching.

[Fylas]

5 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:

One one hand I agree with you there, but I can't accept the fast style of the game as an excuse. I use snipers in exterminate (only sorties though, cause ember exists), capture, survival, defense... They can keep up easily. As $&*^ish as it sounds, you kinda just need aim. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Well, what I suggest here is something a bit more balanced than one of the key downsides to sniper that helps keep them balanced, especially in closer quarters:

A hold breath mechanic. I will continue to say that snipers are perfect for close and medium ranges as is. But for those 800m shots, being able to hold your breath, and stabilize your scope for a few seconds to pop some heads would be a good balance. It makes snipers better for the super long ranges they are capable of, and doesn't make them too easy for close up. Sound fair?

You mean like in any game that takes sniping halfway serious? ... you know besides the testicle shooter simulation that is the sniper series XD

Another thing that bothers me, if you scope next to a wall, you wall latch, which means one of your hands is used to hold to the wall together with the rest of your body, your pretty much holding the sniper rifle with one hand and yet the sway isn't increased at all. This is either a oversight or just shows your frame doesn't give a damn and isn't trying hard enough!

[tarfeef101]

3 hours ago, Jobistober said:

I don't disagree with you, but the issue I see with that will be finding a suitably placed key bind for holding your breath. I personally would rather see sway reduced greatly or removed entirely, but in the spirit of compromise, perhaps sway could be compensated for while crouching.

That would be more than fine with me. Removing it entirely removes almost all the skill for me, so I'd much rather see that put into place.

[ChaoticEdge]

just ask battlefield devs which they know how work on projectiles.

[Hanayama_San]

Just for the record, i may be the only one buuuuuuuuut,

i don't see the ponit in damage fall off, Real Snipers can kill you at over 1.500m range, and we are technologically advanced in the game right ? i mean, if you can hit an enemy that is more then 600m away from you he should die yes ? i mean, it already sucks that we can't aim properly because of the sway but i do not belive damage fall off for snipers should be a thing, then again, i may be the only one who thinks that way.

 

so long guys

[Fylas]

11 hours ago, KaizerMadMaik said:

Just for the record, i may be the only one buuuuuuuuut,

i don't see the ponit in damage fall off, Real Snipers can kill you at over 1.500m range, and we are technologically advanced in the game right ? i mean, if you can hit an enemy that is more then 600m away from you he should die yes ? i mean, it already sucks that we can't aim properly because of the sway but i do not belive damage fall off for snipers should be a thing, then again, i may be the only one who thinks that way.

 

so long guys

real snipers have something called a "effective range" after a certain distance the bullet has lost too much kinetic energy to do maximum damage, it can still kill a human but it is much more likely to just bounce off armor or barricades made of metal. It isn't that damage fall off isn't  wanted. It is just that the value is seen by myself and a good chunk of the people in this thread as so small it rather kills immersion then improve it.  it's like someone said "yeah but if it's too short to make any sense outside 90% of all shots why bother implementing it?"  it's hard enough hitting a 400 meter distant target without any scope

. IF anything the fall off distance should be variable like for shotguns rather then one value trough the bank. With high powered Coil guns like the Lanka and anti material rifle types having a bigger fall off distance then quick shot semi auto snipers. Yes I am aware I just advocated to gimp my favorite Rubico but it would still be more realistic then the current solution. 

This way fall off distance would become part of the calculations in what weapon to choose, do I want more raw damage? or a bigger magnification for a easier shot? Do I engage enemies over 800 meters? If so it might be much better to choose a rifle that has a higher base fall off distance to avoid too much damage drop rather then going for a high damage rifle who's bullets magically turn into popcorn after 700 meters. 

[(PSN)ShadowDragonX-64]

If snipers and long range "battle rifles" are going to rule the plains, Should there a a "Sniper shotgun" that can be like a sniper rifle but with much shorter distance, a light spread that goes outwards the longer the range is and less damage than a normal shotgun?

[SiewcaWiatru]

8 hours ago, (PS4)ShadowDragonX-64 said:

If snipers and long range "battle rifles" are going to rule the plains, Should there a a "Sniper shotgun" that can be like a sniper rifle but with much shorter distance, a light spread that goes outwards the longer the range is and less damage than a normal shotgun?

Have you considered a Drakgoon? Its just the thing you described and yes.. it is called sniper shotgun :P

[DarkDullahan]

3 minutes ago, SiewcaWiatru said:

Have you considered a Drakgoon? Its just the thing you described and yes.. it is called sniper shotgun :P

The drakgoon is a lot of fun to use also, and it crits a good bit despite its stats.

[(PSN)ShadowDragonX-64]

16 hours ago, SiewcaWiatru said:

Have you considered a Drakgoon? Its just the thing you described and yes.. it is called sniper shotgun :P

I did not know that the Darkgoon is a "sniper shotgun". I thought it was a short range Flak cannon with a lot of spread.

[Kinetos]

Wouldn't Shotgun and Sniper be contradictory terms, like dry water, freezing fire?

[DarkDullahan]

8 hours ago, (PS4)ShadowDragonX-64 said:

I did not know that the Darkgoon is a "sniper shotgun". I thought it was a short range Flak cannon with a lot of spread.

Hold to charge for increased accuracy. The drakgoon is a seriously fun weapon to use at medium to long range and the bounce allows it to hit targets anywhere.

 

7 hours ago, Kinetos said:

Wouldn't Shotgun and Sniper be contradictory terms, like dry water, freezing fire?

And yes, yes it would.

[LSG501]

If we're getting a 600m range for snipers, 300m for rifles (and I assume bows) could we maybe get a bit of an increase in minimum fall off for shotguns?

[DarkDullahan]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

If we're getting a 600m range for snipers, 300m for rifles (and I assume bows) could we maybe get a bit of an increase in minimum fall off for shotguns?

Only hitscan weapons are affected by falloff, bows are not hitscan and thus will remain unaffected by this.

[DannytheBlader]

2 minutes ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

Only hitscan weapons are affected by falloff, bows are not hitscan and thus will remain unaffected by this.

So only hitscan weapons are affecting by the falloff? meaning non hitscan weapons like bows, supra etc. won't be? or will they be effected also?

[DarkDullahan]

Just now, DannytheBlader said:

So only hitscan weapons are affecting by the falloff? meaning non hitscan weapons like bows, supra etc. won't be? or will they be effected also?

They will not be affected since they have travel time and/or ballistic curve. The falloff inclusion is to make sure that hitscan weapons are balanced to feel and act like they should in long range situations.

[DannytheBlader]

Ok that makes more sense