Saryn: Still Waiting For A Rework FIX (Rework 2.0)

[Issxi]

Title.

 

Since now I can't hide from enemies in end-game using Shadow-Step, I'm probably going to get 1-shot by everything that moves since Molt takes aggro away for the 0.2 seconds it is up before being destroyed. Saryn needs to go back to being the up-close Melee-Status frame she used to be, and should be by original design. I'm tired of how powerful her Spore is.

Also Toxic Lash RARELY pops Spores and since every weapon and regular melee also pop Spores Toxic Lash is a trash ability. Meanwhile other frames are getting reworks that make them better and compliment their original playstyles while Saryn mains such as myself are left to play a boring frame with unfair energy cost and literally no payoff (unless you spam Spore ofc because P1TW)

 

She needs to be fixed. Her rework is one of the worsts and I'm getting really tired of waiting for any changes to fly her way to fix the abysmal rework she was given.

This video (Below) is still the best idea for a rework for her I've ever seen. The fact that you guys can't come up with something like this leaves me speechless. At least this guy (who made the video) knows how to make Saryn end-game as well as FUN to use. Give it a watch.

 

[StinkyPygmy]

She's fine as is. I don't often use shadow step and I don't personally have any issues. Even more so with regen molt. You can still melee the poop out of anything.

Not that it means anything by default but I've been maining her since release and shes stronger then ever currently.

Edited October 1, 2017 by StinkyPygmy

[Issxi]

Regen Molt should be part of the ability, not an augment. Her Spore is the only useful thing about her, Toxic Lash is useless in every situation and Miasma is one of the worst Ultimates in the game. Not to mention she can be 1-shot by anything. She needs to be fixed, badly. She is NOT fun and way more stressful than the former. At least her abilities cost a fortune in Energy, amirite?

Edited October 1, 2017 by Xylyssa

[motorfirebox]

Saryn's one of my go-to endgame frames. She does ridiculous amounts of damage and I rarely have any trouble surviving. And she's a lot of fun, at least to me.

[artemisfortune]

22 minutes ago, Xylyssa said:

Regen Molt should be part of the ability, not an augment. Her Spore is the only useful thing about her, Toxic Lash is useless in every situation and Miasma is one of the worst Ultimates in the game. Not to mention she can be 1-shot by anything. She needs to be fixed, badly. She is NOT fun and way more stressful than the former. At least her abilities cost a fortune in Energy, amirite?

I mean, it's clear you don't really use her, and are just going off what other people say. She's hellagood man.

[CelticMoss]

Yeah i miss my saryn

Edited October 1, 2017 by CelticMoss

[Alcoholism]

You're right to have an opinion and provide feedback, but you shouldn't bash the devs for not providing something you want.

Whatever the case, the development team are doing what they can moving from one milestone to the next in their very busy schedule. You can't just expect them to drop everything and try to rework a frame that not everyone is displeased with. As far as DE is concerned, there are quite a number of frames that are eligible for a rework and it's a matter of figuring out which should take priority and how they will be reworked to fit the game's changing mechanics. Game development is not as easy as it looks, especially when it comes to an ever changing mmo.

[Issxi]

29 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I mean, it's clear you don't really use her, and are just going off what other people say. She's hellagood man.

She is my main and has been since she was added into the game. :|

 

Yeah I probably shouldn't bash the devs, but they kinda swept feedback on her rework under the rug.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Xylyssa

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, Xylyssa said:

She is my main and has been since she was added into the game. :|

 

Yeah I probably shouldn't bash the devs, but they kinda swept feedback on her rework under the rug.

Most people said the rework was good, and what feedback there was in the opposition was like this. Dev bashing and no real construction at all.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Xylyssa said:

Also Toxic Lash RARELY pops Spores and since every weapon and regular melee also pop Spores Toxic Lash is a trash ability.

if by rarely you mean, on every single hit, then yes!
if you think Toxic Lash is a useless Ability you aren't anywhere near as much of a 'main' as you think you are.

 

the only actual issues that Saryn has which you even touch on at all, is that Spores is questionably powerful at times (especially with some Exploits involved with it, but apparently are 'fine' since they've been reported before), and that Miasma still lacks much purpose or interest of use for that matter.
Saryn has many issues, but this Thread isn't helping to point (or repoint) them out and explain why these pitfalls matter. i'll 'just do it myself' at some point, but it's a lot of writing and will probably also necessitate some audio clips as well - and as such will take a long time, as it already has been.

you seem to be very much out of touch of what this Warframe is good at, what the Abilities are supposed to be doing, and where the holes in the Warframe for the past 2 years have been. toss in "anything that doesn't have 100% Damage Reduction and 50,000 Armor dies in the Loading Screen", and you've gotten yourself in a right pickle.

 

 

better still, comes the promotion of a video, which clearly comes from people that don't know how the Warframe currently works, to which end how can you dictate what something should be, when you don't know what something is. or why something is.

some favorite points i have for showcasing this.
a Molt Augment to detonate Molt - lelwut
adding a Sword Beam to Saryn - what was that about theme?
multiple levels of increasing Spores Damage Bursts - because you clearly don't know how stupid the Spore Bursting already is and the Warframe shouldn't rely on one mechanic across all of the Abilities.

Edited October 1, 2017 by taiiat

[CelticMoss]

10 minutes ago, Xylyssa said:

She is my main and has been since she was added into the game. :|

 

Yeah I probably shouldn't bash the devs, but they kinda swept feedback on her rework under the rug.

She was my main until they gutted her

[BoomyGordo]

15 minutes ago, Xylyssa said:

She is my main and has been since she was added into the game. :|

 

Yeah I probably shouldn't bash the devs, but they kinda swept feedback on her rework under the rug.

well you are doing something wrong. shes easily one of the strongest frames in game. her spores lets her easily cut everythings health in half. and if you bring along a toxin status weapon you can quickly shred a whole room. ive never had trouble surviving with her

[(PSN)CrimsonLotus_Fox]

Wow dude. Your Saryn gets 1-Shotted? You should put on Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, and Rapid Resilience(Rapid Resilience is a mod that drastically reduces the damage over time effects such as Poison and Slash). With those survivability mods on my Saryn(and other Warframe's I use) can stay alive for a very long time.

[IfritKajiTora]

1 hour ago, StinkyPygmy said:

She's fine as is. I don't often use shadow step and I don't personally have any issues. Even more so with regen molt. You can still melee the poop out of anything.

In my opinion she needs some small tweaks.

Saryn should be able to use all Toxin family status because she is a toxin Queen right?

1 ability add viral, that is great.

her second ability should have 100% gas status on detonating molt or while being destroyed.
-Her second ability need more scaling: 3 seconds of invulnerability and convert damage into molt health, the more maximum health is, the more Molt will deal damage. Right now the less molt have health, the more damage it do, yeah but it's not scalable and it's almost impossible to do on higher levels because they will destroy molt in second, you wont notice low health on Molt. And with augment some times it's painful, you wan't to regen your health but they destroy molt in second, making it waste of energy.

Toxin in melee weapon 100% status.
-Third ability need something more, because right now it's only useful for melee, a small extra effect that add buff while not using melee, would be fantastic.

-Fourth ability need Condition Overload effect scalable to all toxin family status: Toxin, Gas, Corrosive and Viral. 60% extra damage for each status, and it needs 100% status corrosive for every second (4 total with 100% duration), to reduce some armor.
All 4 status would grant total of 655% damage.

All abilities will have different status effect from toxin family and combining all of them would end with massive damage ^^.
With all that changes Saryn would be awesome.

Edited October 1, 2017 by IfritKajiTora

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

I wish someone would provide actual info on what they are doing when they say the frame is good as is...because now when i read a reponse to a post asking to improvement and see those words, i just picture that person camping in one spot using some op weaopn and claiming thusly that frame is not broken/needs no fixes...

Of course Saryn is playable, and no, dev bashing doesnt make people happy, but Saryns rework as "playable" as it is, seems like it was focused on creating more work to get the same output amd nothing interesting was added. Toxic lash is a trash ability. It doesnt even exist if you dont have a melee weapon, which of course has people asking why you would ever take Saryn to a sortie mission? Thats not the point. If its going to be melee restricted, it might as well be an exalted ability, if not, the only two other options are adding to what it can do or stop restricting it to melee only. Or get rid of it...

Spore does not need hit boxes. Hit boxes do not work properly with melee anyways....hitting the enemy should pop the spore.

My suggestions: Spores given off by molt while it is active should continuosly infect enemies. Molt will continuosly reproduce spores cast on it while up.

Shedding molt should scale in that Saryn will build up armor over time somehow for the ability, and cast it off. 

Idk. Its not the perfect rework. It leaves much to be desired. And Saryn did not deserve a nerf to her health. Yes. Insulting that they nerfed her health and then added in inaros. An unexplained health nerf. 

[Fallen_Echo]

I played Saryn for some day till she reached 30 then i decided to put her in the fodder shelf.

From those days i have concluded this on her:

1. Shes a spam frame with huge energy requiement
2. Spores are her best ability and you mostly dont do anything else expect spamming spores
3. Molt is useless with its extremly low health and the only use i find for it is to spam spores on it
4. Toxic lash might aswell be removed its useless
5. Miasma unless you somehow do the impossible and max out duration, range and p.strenght is barely useable

5 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I wish someone would provide actual info on what they are doing when they say the frame is good as is...because now when i read a reponse to a post asking to improvement and see those words, i just picture that person camping in one spot using some op weaopn and claiming thusly that frame is not broken/needs no fixes...

Of course Saryn is playable, and no, dev bashing doesnt make people happy, but Saryns rework as "playable" as it is, seems like it was focused on creating more work to get the same output amd nothing interesting was added. Toxic lash is a trash ability. It doesnt even exist if you dont have a melee weapon, which of course has people asking why you would ever take Saryn to a sortie mission? Thats not the point. If its going to be melee restricted, it might as well be an exalted ability, if not, the only two other options are adding to what it can do or stop restricting it to melee only. Or get rid of it...

Spore does not need hit boxes. Hit boxes do not work properly with melee anyways....hitting the enemy should pop the spore.

My suggestions: Spores given off by molt while it is active should continuosly infect enemies. Molt will continuosly reproduce spores cast on it while up.

Shedding molt should scale in that Saryn will build up armor over time somehow for the ability, and cast it off. 

Idk. Its not the perfect rework. It leaves much to be desired. And Saryn did not deserve a nerf to her health. Yes. Insulting that they nerfed her health and then added in inaros. An unexplained health nerf. 

I would like to know that too. I tried to play her but it just doesnt feel good, her abilities feel like im playing atlas where only the first one is useable but at the same time atleast atlas and his other skills helped me.

Saryn has a molt what is a useless variant of decoy, toxic slash what is useless and miasma what i want to nominate as the worst 4th skills ingame.

[Somb3rBivalve]

2 hours ago, Xylyssa said:

Regen Molt should be part of the ability, not an augment. Her Spore is the only useful thing about her, Toxic Lash is useless in every situation and Miasma is one of the worst Ultimates in the game. Not to mention she can be 1-shot by anything. She needs to be fixed, badly. She is NOT fun and way more stressful than the former. At least her abilities cost a fortune in Energy, amirite?

I'll admit, molt isn't very good without the augment, but I beg to differ about toxic lash and miasma. Miasma works great with toxin (from either blowing up molt and from toxic lash) and viral from spores to do some good damage, and it also has CC for the duration. As for toxic lash, I don't know if you've ever tried a melee saryn build with healing return, but it's a lot of fun. It's also useful in a more normal build to proc toxin.

As for her being one-shot, this is why you don't use end game level enemies as a benchmark for frame performance. At those levels, the damage that enemies do is so insane that players are forced to cheese to get anything done (by doing stuff like, CC spam to keep enemies from shooting and invisibility to also keep enemies from shooting). At that point, the game isn't any harder, it's just a matter of how long you want to spend shooting at clueless bullet sponges. You know, people complain about warframe's end game not having an identity since asking what level defines end game is a contentious question. However, the frames that do well in end game are part of the problem. By essentially having no limit as to what level they can handle, these frames obscure what should be considered acceptable performance for other frames like saryn. If every frame started having difficulties surviving at about the same level, then they could all be compared on a level playing field.

Essentially, what I'm trying to say there is that by making Saryn, at least in your eyes, survivable at end-game, we would have to introduce cheesy tactics into her kit since that what end game requires by definition.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Somb3rBivalve said:

Essentially, what I'm trying to say there is that by making Saryn, at least in your eyes, survivable at end-game, we would have to introduce cheesy tactics into her kit since that what end game requires by definition.

She doesnt need to be an endgame superweapon all she needs to fix the rework she got to make her into a frame pleasant to use.

Her 1 can stay as is, its a fine skill.

Molt needs to get an invulnerability window and maybe a small invulnerability cast on saryn too. Its supposed to be a decoy escape skill but it hardly manages to do that. The augment should by innate but with a lesser effect to compensate the previous buffs.

Toxic lash could be good if Saryn would be able to handle close-up attacks she either needs a health buff or an armor buff or something different. Toxic lash should grant 40% damage reduction and -50% duration on status procs on you, to compensate this we remove the block bonus.

Miasma could be a fog type of attack, creating a large mist in the target area dealing damage in a long duration with an addition to grant 10% evansion to every player in the fog. The skill now has 30 sec base duration deals 10 damage per tick (approx 15% damage decrease to compensate the duration buff and the evansion buff).

 

This would make her get 4 useful skills all worth building around and could move her away from the spam frame feeling.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

She's far from beein fine but let us be honest here, she would be if her spores would actually work.

And i am not talking about the spreading or the underwhelming damage they do but about this part:

If an infected enemy is being damaged by a  proc, popping a spore on that enemy will also spread  damage to surrounding enemies. The spore will have 25% of the initial base damage that triggered the  proc added to its burst damage as  damage with a 100%status chance for  and  effects.

 

_______________

i've copied from the still existing wiki entry because it no way in hell does anything like that. Would it do so would it mean that an propper scaling melee weapon would also pull toxic leash and weapon builds along andthus her aoe too, what woud make her kit which recieved nearly no Cc because of this mechanic somewhat viable too but guess what, it does not. Not. At. All.

This part is what would buff every single one of her abilitys by adding damage to her pool for destroying spores which would do and prepare enemys for more damage, if it wouldn't straight kill them and thus give her Cc befitting of her, Cc by death.

I am among the few people who actually noticed and hardtested that part and let me guarantee you all it doesn't work. It took me WEEKS to even get one procc outa her and it wasn't even marked as toxic back then.

Fixing her might be on spot what she needs on the matter. Her rework was fine but the execution was frickin horrible.

 

Btw, pardon the formating. That is sadly something i have no controll over on my phone.

Edited October 1, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[MxRose]

15 hours ago, Xylyssa said:

 

bozimine does very base level of research, and doesnt seem to do much outside of the simulacrum. he has no real understanding of saryn. there are many people that understand her kit and take her to high level sorties or even Mot survival runs. He is very quick to dismiss frames and call them trash. (Some of his test are laughable as they have no in game implication). I used to enjoy his videos, but I have seen him call a warframe worthless and seen other youtubers rocking out 2 hour survivals on mot with the said warframe. His misunderstanding of saryn  rework was actually a big reason I stopped watching his videos. He also called hydroids rework a nerf lol.

 

[StinkyPygmy]

7 hours ago, MxRose said:

bozimine does very base level of research, and doesnt seem to do much outside of the simulacrum. he has no real understanding of saryn. there are many people that understand her kit and take her to high level sorties or even Mot survival runs. He is very quick to dismiss frames and call them trash. (Some of his test are laughable as they have no in game implication). I used to enjoy his videos, but I have seen him call a warframe worthless and seen other youtubers rocking out 2 hour survivals on mot with the said warframe. His misunderstanding of saryn  rework was actually a big reason I stopped watching his videos. He also called hydroids rework a nerf lol.

 

bozimine has no real understanding of the game on the whole from what I've seen. He mostly just complains a lot about things he doesn't really have much knowledge about.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Okay... it seems like there are some myths here about Saryn that need clearing up. Please, allow me.

But.

Let me be clear.

I don't believe Saryn is fine as she is.

I'll get to that later, because there's some simple things possible with this.

Let's start off with the OP:

On 01/10/2017 at 6:25 AM, Xylyssa said:

Also Toxic Lash RARELY pops Spores and since every weapon and regular melee also pop Spores Toxic Lash is a trash ability.

Toxic Lash does pop one spore for every successful hit, and as such every pop not only restores some small amount of energy to you, it also spreads the spores to each enemy in range, re-applying the proc each time a spore is popped.

The confusion often comes in when you don't see the difference between that individual multi-pop and that an enemy death pops one spore. Just one out of the three that an enemy can have, but that does spread the spore procs. So in a way, every weapon can spread spores. You have to consider it like Harrow, his abilities still return energy and health for damage, but they do more if you hit headshots.

Lash does the most important thing, though, of having a guaranteed Toxin proc, which if you pop a spore on an enemy with Toxin, it spreads the Toxin as well as the Viral.

That brings me on to this one;

19 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

i've copied from the still existing wiki entry because it no way in hell does anything like that. Would it do so would it mean that an propper scaling melee weapon would also pull toxic leash and weapon builds along andthus her aoe too, what woud make her kit which recieved nearly no Cc because of this mechanic somewhat viable too but guess what, it does not. Not. At. All.

This isn't a call-out to you, my friend, it's just because you raised a point that many people can be confused about.

You're missing a key point with this one, and that's how the damage you're dishing out is being converted. You're also missing the fact that the Toxin Proc from Spore spreading doesn't show a little logo for Toxic when it gets procced, so the only visual cue you get is the green Toxin cast to enemies that comes, while the Spores just grow on enemies without changing their colour. 

First point, if you kill the enemy outright with the first swing, no Toxin proc will spread because the enemy died before the Toxin was applied. That's a bit of an issue, I know.

Second, the way Toxin works is that it deals a number of ticks of damage that are 50% of the damage that caused them and 50% of the total Toxin damage per tick for 9 ticks over 8 seconds. So if you have a weapon that deals 100 Slash and 100 Toxin (just for a test) a Toxin proc will deal 150 damage per tick, for 9 ticks, which is 1350 damage (and then mitigate or increase this damage based on enemy weakness/resistance).

Why am I going into this? Because of how Spore spreads the Toxin; The Spore has 25% of the damage that caused the Toxin Proc added to the damage of Spore, and then that damage causes the next Toxin Proc on the target. Problem with this is that it doesn't add the damage as Toxin damage. Spores only ever deals Viral.

Using our example of a 200 damage weapon, split 100/100 in Slash and Toxin causing that proc. You will then have 50 damage added to your Spore damage, a total of 75 damage. This then procs the next Toxin proc, which will tick for 50% of that 75 damage for 9 ticks. That's only 37.5 damage per tick because there's no Toxin base damage to boost it further, just Viral base. Total damage from the next proc is then 337.5.

It's diminishing returns, not compounded returns.

However, Toxin is like Slash in that it can proc multiple times on the same enemy. Meaning that if you're using Toxic Lash to pop the Spores on an enemy (and you don't kill that enemy outright with the first hit) you can proc three times on the enemies around you for that lower damage, meaning it does in fact go up. Keep farming the Spores from one enemy to another with Lash and the enemies at the end of the line will be neck-deep in procs, again and again, taking dozens of ticks of smaller damage, but having an overall higher damage dealt to them.

An important note for Saryn is that the Spores can be cast on Molt for half the energy cost, and detonating the Molt will guaranteed proc all enemies in range with both the Spores and with Toxin instantly, a great way to start things of. Or, if enemies are damaging Molt, they will pop the spores one at a time for you, damaging themselves and spreading the procs, until they pop the Molt themselves, dealing that damage and Toxin in the area for you too.

So.

How would we actually go about improving Saryn?

Because as she is, there's some really odd mechanics that people don't seem to get. And we can ensure they aren't quite so odd.

Well, here's a few examples.

1. Spores. Add the damage from Toxin Procs as Toxin damage, not as Viral. This way the damage does still diminish, but at a far lower rate.

2. Molt. Needs some kind of way to survive at higher levels. A suggestion that works for most people I've found is that when you drop Molt it has a short absorb phase like Iron Skin or Warding Halo. Molt then gains health based on the fire it draws, and then goes from there. An important change would be that the gained health would be added to Molt's base detonation no matter when the Molt died (through recasting or through normal death), so that there's a little scaling in the damage there too for adding more Toxin procs.

3. Miasma. Give the Corrosive damage on Miasma a Status chance per tick, allowing it to have a chance to strip some armour, this can be low, but it's kind of pointless to have such a wide area corrosive ability, no matter how high or low the damage, not have a status chance. If DE are worried about the balance of it, maybe make the status chance scale up to a cap with mods, so a 'low efficiency/high strength' build won't strip armour any better than 'low strength/high range' builds or 'high duration/low range' builds.

Does that sound reasonable?

Saryn used to be a nuke frame on par with the current Ember. High damage if you built for her 4 and nothing else, but also capped damage which bled out remarkably quickly in the old endgame (current endgame it might have been fine in, seeing as that really only goes up to level 100...) so what DE did was turn her into a de-buffer frame.

Lots of people don't like debuffers, especially so when they used to be damage. But if you use her abilities in the right kind of order, casting Molt, then Spores on Molt, letting enemies attack Molt to get the spores and then using Lash to pop spores on enemies to gain energy back... it's an amazing self-sustaining cycle that can, over the course of a survival or defense map at higher level (and by that I mean going 20 waves at least, I mean... come on, the amount of people who think 5 is enough is crazy these days), she can out-damage every other frame.

[DrBorris]

Saryn is fine if she actually worked as in the patch notes.

 

The short of it is that the Toxin DoTs of Spore do not scale/stack correctly, if they did she would be one of the most powerful DPS frames. 

Quote

• Spore Revisions
  • Saryn’s Venom Ability has been renamed to Spore.
  • Guaranteed Viral proc on explosion of spores.
  • If current host has a toxin Proc (i.e from Contagion or any other source), it will transfer that proc too.
  • Damage ticks will be done every second, duration will affect how long the debuff is up.
  • Increase base damage of the ability.
• Molt Revisions
  • Spore can be cast on Molt, infects units which attack Molt.
  • Miasma cast in range of Molt will feed into Molt, creating more damage on explosion.
  • All Spores on Molt Clones will detonate and spread on the clone’s death.
• Toxic Lash Revisions
  • Saryn’s Contagion Ability has been renamed to Toxic Lash.
  • Slightly increased the damage and duration of Toxic Lash.
  • Guaranteed Toxin proc on melee hit.
  • Detonates a Venom spore if the target has one.
  • Damage output scales based on a percent of total damage of melee weapon with Mods, not base.
  • While Toxic Lash is active, there is a bonus damage reduction while blocking. This damage reduction is capped at 90%.
• Miasma Revisions
  • Damage ticks will be done every second, Duration will affect how long the debuff is up.
  • 100% more damage if target is affected by a Viral proc (Spore guarantees a Viral proc when exploded).
  • 100% more damage if target is affected by a Toxin proc (Toxic Lash guarantees a Toxin proc on impact).
  • Enemies hit by Miasma when under the effects of Miasma will have the duration timer reset.
  • Increase base damage overall.
• General Revisions
  • Saryn now has a passive 25% increased Status effect duration.
  • Updated some visual FX on Saryn’s abilities.
  • Saryn can now cast Spore and Toxic Lash while moving.
  • Saryn’s base Armor is now 175.
  • Saryn’s base Health is now 125.
  • Saryn’s base Energy is now 150 and max at rank 30 is 225 (without mod).

 

Really, it all comes down to that third bullet of spore that is not working correctly. Just imagine if Spore actually transferred Toxin procs with Spore consistently. Combined with Toxic Lash Saryn should be able to delete entire rooms of enemies by killing just one small group of enemies (she can do this to an extent now, but it is very inconsistent). 

Frozenballz talked about it in a video...

Spoiler

 

 

Saryn could use some other touch-ups however, like the invulnerability on Molt and something to give Miasma corrosive procs (IMO Miasma should procs Corrosive once per every spore on an enemy), but those changes are quite inconsequential if her primary form of damage (Toxin procs and Spores) is never fixed. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

47 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Really, it all comes down to that third bullet of spore that is not working correctly

Just pointing this out, I explained why it is working exactly as intended, but that the intended actually is pretty crap, just up above your comment:

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Second, the way Toxin works is that it deals a number of ticks of damage that are 50% of the damage that caused them and 50% of the total Toxin damage per tick for 9 ticks over 8 seconds. So if you have a weapon that deals 100 Slash and 100 Toxin (just for a test) a Toxin proc will deal 150 damage per tick, for 9 ticks, which is 1350 damage (and then mitigate or increase this damage based on enemy weakness/resistance).

Why am I going into this? Because of how Spore spreads the Toxin; The Spore has 25% of the damage that caused the Toxin Proc added to the damage of Spore, and then that damage causes the next Toxin Proc on the target. Problem with this is that it doesn't add the damage as Toxin damage. Spores only ever deals Viral.

Using our example of a 200 damage weapon, split 100/100 in Slash and Toxin causing that proc. You will then have 50 damage added to your Spore damage, a total of 75 damage. This then procs the next Toxin proc, which will tick for 50% of that 75 damage for 9 ticks. That's only 37.5 damage per tick because there's no Toxin base damage to boost it further, just Viral base. Total damage from the next proc is then 337.5.

It's diminishing returns, not compounded returns

tl;dr

Spore spreads the toxin proc, but barely any damage to proc Toxin with since the damage is not Toxin based, and the base damage of Spore is so low in the first place. It does not, and never was supposed to, transfer the full damage of each Toxin proc from enemy to enemy. Just the Status and a small amount of damage to give that Status something to tick with.

But. If the simple switch to make the additive damage from the Toxin proc to Spore's damage was made as actual Toxin damage... that would change up pretty quickly.

Also, reading back through this thread... I came across this little gem:

On 01/10/2017 at 7:57 AM, IfritKajiTora said:

her second ability should have 100% gas status on detonating molt or while being destroyed.

To explain my amusement, friend, I'm not trying to be mean. But Gas Status is a Toxin Proc (or 'poison' as the actual name of the proc). You trigger the status on Gas and it spreads Toxin Procs to everything in range. Molt does proc Toxin, 100% Status chance, on everything in its range, so your wish is already granted.

[BlueberryIsWar]

Actually quite shallow answers it perfectly.