Ivara could use some polishing

[yles9056]

Ivara is one of the frames that is mostly fine but could use some polishing(like Titania, Equinox, etc.)

Her 3rd and 4th ability are fine, while her 1st and 2nd ability need some changes.

 

-Quiver:

The major problem of Quiver is the selection mechanic. This ability is not easy to use when I just got Ivara. I have to look away from the crosshair when choosing arrows. Also, hold to fire mechanic means I cannot fire arrows quickly in emergency situations(ex: a teammate is down and I want to fire cloak arrow immediately), and I sometimes accidentally switch arrow. It does get better after practicing for a while. Still, I hope Quiver can be more convenient to use. There are 2 different ways to improve the mechanic:

Approach.1(simpler): When the player switches arrow type, an UI indicator will briefly show up near the crosshair to help the player keep track of which arrow type is being selected.

Approach.2(more complicated): Use tap to fire arrows. To switch arrow type, hold to open up Quiver menu which will show near the crosshair. Then press 1~4 to select corresponding arrow type.

 

Another minor complaint is that noise arrow is very ineffective against alerted enemies. Perhaps DE could give it some bonus effect to make it more worthy of using in pub game. For example, apply mini bullet attractor to enemies' weak spot just like Scourge. This synergies well with Artemis Bow.

 

-----------------------------------

-Navigator:

This ability has tones of problems. The idea is fun and really fits Ivara's archer theme. But in reality, it's inefficient in every way. It's an ability you'll never use in pub game unless you are using Zenistar. Even in stealth missions, I barely find any reason to use Navigator because Quiver and Prowl get the job done and are much easier to use. Navigator's problems includes:

• It's hard to use because player have little control over speed. This is particularly problematic when firing fast projectiles in small room.

• Mini map does not follow the projectile. As a result, much time is spent on finding enemies. PoE is going to highlight this problem.

• All the above are worsen by the fact that Navigator has rather high energy cost.

• Despite all the disadvantages listed above, Navigator is not rewarding. The project can only hit one/limited enemies at a time unless you are using Zenistar, which should be discussed separately. What's worse, Ivara itself cannot do anything because she is busy controlling the projectile while her teammates already kill everything.

So yeah, there isn't much reaon to use Navigator. Navigator needs a lot of changes. My suggestions would be:

• Projectile speed should be normalized, meaning that no matter what projectile it is, the flight speed will be the same. Pressing LMB gradually increase the speed. Pressing RMB gradually reduces the speed(in the rate faster than LMB). 

• Mini map should follow the projectile. It would be even better if player can see enemies through wall.

• Reasonable energy cost.

• If the projectile does not have any AoE, Navigator will grant it punch through.

• Hitscan bullet will be converted to projectile when using with Navigator, so Navigator can be used on more weapons.

These are the much-needed changes for Navigator IMO.

But even with these changes, Navigator is still not easy to use. I was thinking maybe a different control scheme is needed. For example, Navigator could use a control scheme similar to archwing control scheme(no roll). That way, the player can use A, D, Ctrl, Space bar to adjust the position of the projectile. Even more, imagine E key can be used to home in on a single enemy just like archwing melee(if you mash E key, you get Yondu's arrow!). There should be some downside for using E key for balance reasons. Such as the player cannot score headshot when using E key or addition energy cost.

 

 

I know Ivara is a rather new Warframe, but that's no excuse for not improving her abilities. Thank you for reading my feedback.

Edited October 2, 2017 by yles9056

[Mk.1]

42 minutes ago, yles9056 said:

Also, hold to fire mechanic means I cannot fire arrows quickly in emergency situations

You can invert this in the options: Options, Controls, "Invert Tap/Hold Abilities"

The rest of the suggestions are nice, I think I'd play more Ivara if she was like that.

[Bouldershoulder]

Secondary fire with artemis bow shoots the selected arrow instantly.

[Azamagon]

I agreed that there are a few QoL-issues with Ivara.

Quiver

As for using Quiver quickly, I have another suggestion:

Tap 1 to briefly open up a choice menu, with the arrow icons appearing right beneath the crosshair.

Press 1 while the menu is open to fire the Cloak arrow
Press 2 while the menu is open to fire the Dashwire arrow
Press 3 while the menu is open to fire the Noise arrow
Press 4 while the menu is open to fire the Sleep arrow
Press 5 to instantly close the menu instantly

That way, using a specific arrow is MUCH quicker, in all scenarios.
Altfire during Artemis Bow still quickfires your last used Quiver-arrow

Aso, for Dashwire, I wish there was an option to remove a specifc Dashwire (like, if Ivara is on a specific Dashwire, pressing melee causes her to break the wire)

Navigator

Yeah, it's definitely a very niche ability.

I really liked your suggestions for Navigator, especially the "Mash E to home in on nearby enemies" kind of thing, that sounds like a unique way to make it rewarding against hordes of enemies. Also, since that's optional, it doesn't ruin any of her current niches or stealth-capabilities. Great suggestion, really! :)

Another simple approach (I'd suggest it as a revamp of its currently rather horrible augment) to make it more useful in more scenarios could be that when you stop using Navigator by any means, the projectile gets a powerful AoE damage effect added to it (damage purely based on the ability, irrelevant of the projectile's damage). That way, even using something like, say, her Sleep Arrow on a crowd would add some nuke power. And yes, more energydrain equals more explosive power. The explosion could even be slightly delayed, occurring a second or two after the Navigator ability stopped, at the location Navigator was stopped (not at where the guided projectile actually stopped), which would make it have great synergy with Noise Arrow in particular.

So, your "homing E"-thing is an added base effect, and the "AoE damage when Navigator is stopped" is the augment's effect. That'd be nice, no?

Prowl

I also have some issues with this ability. While I don't mind becoming slower overall, I hate how I can't use all movement options without breaking. If this was a game centered purely around Ivara, that could be ok, because then you'd get used to it. But considering how all the other Warframes (Limbo as a sort of exception) is best used when using all your movement options (like sliding, bullet jump etc), and considering how often one changes Warframe for various missions, it becomes a downright HASSLE to untrain that "movement instinct" whenever one is trying to use Ivara correctly.

So, my proposal: Let Ivara do all the movements in the game (like bulletjump etc) without breaking Prowl, but make them slower, just like all her other currently allowed movements are slowed down too. Even if using these quicker movements means that they drain extra energy for using them, I wouldn't mind. It's purely suggested for "brain QoL".

 

[KenthNisshoku]

her 1,3 & 4 need to be left alone

her 2 needs to use less energy

and that's the only problem i have with her

[yles9056]

16 hours ago, Mk_1 said:

You can invert this in the options: Options, Controls, "Invert Tap/Hold Abilities"

I didn't know this option exists. Thanks. However, while using this option allows me to fire arrows quickly, I have to hold the ability button to switch arrow. I guess it's a trade-off. A selection menu is still needed IMO.

 

@Bouldershoulder

Please understand that Artemis Bow is not activated all the time.

 

15 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Quiver

-snip-

That's also a way to go. Useful for players who switch arrows frequently. I think someone suggested a similar mechanic before.

As for the dash wire problem, being able to remove specific wire is definitely a nice feature. Although I can hardly come up with a proper idea on how to implement this feature.

15 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Navigator

-snip-

Yes, it a great idea. It gives me one more reason to use Navigator and its augment. I hope the explosion damage is also affected by mods so it scales better.

15 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Prowl

-snip-

I know the movement restrictions are inconvenient. But I think the idea behind it is similar to camouflage. Enemies can't see Ivara when she is moving slow. But the invisibility ends when she moves fast. Of course, more freedom movement is always welcomed since WF puts a lot of emphasis on agility.

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 hours ago, yles9056 said:

I know the movement restrictions are inconvenient. But I think the idea behind it is similar to camouflage. Enemies can't see Ivara when she is moving slow. But the invisibility ends when she moves fast. Of course, more freedom movement is always welcomed since WF puts a lot of emphasis on agility.

You can pull off a bullet-jump without breaking prowl if you get the timing just right. But that aside, the inability to slide or run (or bullet jump by intention) is enough to account for the 'camouflage'. Being slowed down as well is unnecessary, and even doesn't apply on ziplines. (Forced 'synergy' or just inconsistency? You decide!)

Worse, the augment basically only exists to patch the gaping wound of clunky movement and is a complete waste of design space when the speed penalty reduction should have just been baked in. _{Let's not even address the Navigator augment... Please, please make good augs for Quiver and ABow. Please.}

 

What definitely does need to be reworked on Prowl is the four different states of energy drain, most of which are not mentioned or listed in the ability pane (nor is steal success chance, for that matter).

1) Drain of ability (standing still) - the drain value we see listed.

2) Drain of ability (moving) - more hamstringing because being slowed and prevented from using movement options isn't already enough apparently

3) Energy Cost (melee hit) - sure love wasting extra energy punching a crate, or high attack speed melees just sapping that bar away. Also: Finishers with multiple hits? Extra costs. Because reasons.

4) Energy Cost (on damage) - This breaks down further:

4.1) Direct damage from enemies - Sort of understandable, aside from the fact that being hit is its own penalty.. because you were hit, and Ivara is no tank.

4.2) Status Effect Damage - Yep, each tick is another piece of the pie. Several slash/toxin procs? Better pop out of prowl before you're drained dry.

4.3) Continuous Damage - Another case of bad interactions. Because I just love it when the Shock Eximus I'm trying to stealthily dispatch also takes off half my energy bar by sheer virtue of existing. Arc traps can GTFO too.

[C0d3blooded]

There are a couple points I can definitely get on board with.

• Noise arrow being very situational and niche (solo stealth play or spy missions). Could possibly get more utility
• Punch through + normalized speed for Navigator would be great. On a side note, mini map visibility hasn't been a personal issue for awhile. Ivara's passive + Animal Instinct + Enemy Sense gives a TON of visibility.

I'd say Navigator is otherwise fine. It has a lot of utility, especially in combination with Quiver.

Can't say I agree with some of the other negative OP points.

9 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

What definitely does need to be reworked on Prowl is the four different states of energy drain, most of which are not mentioned or listed in the ability pane (nor is steal success chance, for that matter).

1) Drain of ability (standing still) - the drain value we see listed.

2) Drain of ability (moving) - more hamstringing because being slowed and prevented from using movement options isn't already enough apparently

3) Energy Cost (melee hit) - sure love wasting extra energy punching a crate, or high attack speed melees just sapping that bar away. Also: Finishers with multiple hits? Extra costs. Because reasons.

4) Energy Cost (on damage) - This breaks down further:

4.1) Direct damage from enemies - Sort of understandable, aside from the fact that being hit is its own penalty.. because you were hit, and Ivara is no tank.

4.2) Status Effect Damage - Yep, each tick is another piece of the pie. Several slash/toxin procs? Better pop out of prowl before you're drained dry.

4.3) Continuous Damage - Another case of bad interactions. Because I just love it when the Shock Eximus I'm trying to stealthily dispatch also takes off half my energy bar by sheer virtue of existing. Arc traps can GTFO too.

Yes please.

[yles9056]

Come to think of it, when I play in pub games, I only use Prowl if necessary. Otherwise, I prefer running around freely. Perhaps Prowl does need some adjustments to make it less restrictive.

On the other hand, I'm all for more clear information on energy drain.

 

@C0d3blooded

The mini map issues I mentioned is most noticeable when the projectile I am controlling is far away from Ivara.

Edited October 3, 2017 by yles9056

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

On 10/1/2017 at 3:33 AM, yles9056 said:

Ivara is one of the frames that is mostly fine but could use some polishing(like Titania, Equinox, etc.)

Her 3rd and 4th ability are fine, while her 1st and 2nd ability need some changes.

 

-Quiver:

The major problem of Quiver is the selection mechanic. This ability is not easy to use when I just got Ivara. I have to look away from the crosshair when choosing arrows. Also, hold to fire mechanic means I cannot fire arrows quickly in emergency situations(ex: a teammate is down and I want to fire cloak arrow immediately), and I sometimes accidentally switch arrow. It does get better after practicing for a while. Still, I hope Quiver can be more convenient to use. There are 2 different ways to improve the mechanic:

Approach.1(simpler): When the player switches arrow type, an UI indicator will briefly show up near the crosshair to help the player keep track of which arrow type is being selected.

Approach.2(more complicated): Use tap to fire arrows. To switch arrow type, hold to open up Quiver menu which will show near the crosshair. Then press 1~4 to select corresponding arrow type.

 

Another minor complaint is that noise arrow is very ineffective against alerted enemies. Perhaps DE could give it some bonus effect to make it more worthy of using in pub game. For example, apply mini bullet attractor to enemies' weak spot just like Scourge. This synergies well with Artemis Bow.

 

-----------------------------------

-Navigator:

This ability has tones of problems. The idea is fun and really fits Ivara's archer theme. But in reality, it's inefficient in every way. It's an ability you'll never use in pub game unless you are using Zenistar. Even in stealth missions, I barely find any reason to use Navigator because Quiver and Prowl get the job done and are much easier to use. Navigator's problems includes:

• It's hard to use because player have little control over speed. This is particularly problematic when firing fast projectiles in small room.

• Mini map does not follow the projectile. As a result, much time is spent on finding enemies. PoE is going to highlight this problem.

• All the above are worsen by the fact that Navigator has rather high energy cost.

• Despite all the disadvantages listed above, Navigator is not rewarding. The project can only hit one/limited enemies at a time unless you are using Zenistar, which should be discussed separately. What's worse, Ivara itself cannot do anything because she is busy controlling the projectile while her teammates already kill everything.

So yeah, there isn't much reaon to use Navigator. Navigator needs a lot of changes. My suggestions would be:

• Projectile speed should be normalized, meaning that no matter what projectile it is, the flight speed will be the same. Pressing LMB gradually increase the speed. Pressing RMB gradually reduces the speed(in the rate faster than LMB). 

• Mini map should follow the projectile. It would be even better if player can see enemies through wall.

• Reasonable energy cost.

• If the projectile does not have any AoE, Navigator will grant it punch through.

• Hitscan bullet will be converted to projectile when using with Navigator, so Navigator can be used on more weapons.

These are the much-needed changes for Navigator IMO.

But even with these changes, Navigator is still not easy to use. I was thinking maybe a different control scheme is needed. For example, Navigator could use a control scheme similar to archwing control scheme(no roll). That way, the player can use A, D, Ctrl, Space bar to adjust the position of the projectile. Even more, imagine E key can be used to home in on a single enemy just like archwing melee(if you mash E key, you get Yondu's arrow!). There should be some downside for using E key for balance reasons. Such as the player cannot score headshot when using E key or addition energy cost.

 

 

I know Ivara is a rather new Warframe, but that's no excuse for not improving her abilities. Thank you for reading my feedback.

Regarding noise arrow, it's not meant to be effective against enemies who are alert. Now I would like it if it came with a timer showing how long the effect lasts for on unalerted enemies. As far as the quiver goes, it's just something you need to get used to. I use cloak all the time to revive allies and switch back to sleep for oncoming enemies with no problems.

As far as navigator is concerned, I get a lot of use out of it. The most use I get out of it is cloaking a downed ally that is in a position that I cannot directly hit, I even use it to cloak allies in LOR. Punch through works very well for me whether I  using a bow or a thrown melee weapon so there is a lot more use of it other than a zenistar. It helps if your using a weapon that has some innate punch through abilities.

My opinion is Ivara is fine as she is. I really wouldn't suggest changing much with the exception of her dash arrow, only use I get out of that is purching on occasion.

[yles9056]

@(PS4)Knuckles2184

Just so you know, you can use @username or snip so you don't need to quote the entire thread.

 

Back to the topic:

I don't play LOR, but I get your idea. Navigator works well with Quiver. That's for sure. But Navigator is also designed to work with weapons. I tried to use it in pub game several times. Every time I use Navigator, my teammates already killed everything while I'm navigating and killing enemies one by one. As a result, I barely use it many more. Even in solo stealth missions, I find it way easier and more efficient to just shoot sleep arrows or my weapon at enemies directly. Navigator doesn't offer anything that makes me want to use it.

Also, we have so many projectile weapons, but many of them don't work well with Navigator. Some of them are either too fast(ex:Lanka) or too slow. And weapons that lack punch through(ex:Boltor) are inefficient when used with Navigator. That's why I'm proposing the changes, hoping they will make Navigator work well with more weapons, and give players more weapon choices.

Edited October 4, 2017 by yles9056

[Sanxxieh]

Ivara is just great at the state she is. The only "problem" could be navigator's energy cost and projectile speed while shotting bows.
If anything could be added to her, the Navigator could have "teleport to-" augment.

That's it.

[TaylorsContraction]

I will shamelessly bump my thread here, please support for improving Ivara's quiver functionality to be more fluid

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/836817-a-much-better-approach-to-swap-abilities-ivara-vauban/?tab=comments#comment-8946954

 

[-Bv-Qrow_the_Hokage]

I've found her Navigator augment to actually be useful when use on a Glaive P powerthrow. Due to its nature, you go through most enemies without bouncing, you can keep it up for as long as you have energy, and it builds up your crit. This helps when navigating through the heads of enemies. Only change I want for her navigator is for the map to follow the projectile you are controlling. 

[DatDarkOne]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 2:33 AM, yles9056 said:

Another minor complaint is that noise arrow is very ineffective against alerted enemies. Perhaps DE could give it some bonus effect to make it more worthy of using in pub game.

Noise Arrow still works on Alerted enemies while solo.  It would be nice if there was something it could do in group missions.  

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 12:53 PM, Sanxxieh said:

Ivara is just great at the state she is. The only "problem" could be navigator's energy cost and projectile speed while shotting bows.
If anything could be added to her, the Navigator could have "teleport to-" augment.

That's it.

This is something I agree with the most. 

Everything else mentioned by OP has been solved by me just having efficiency of 165%.  Having Primed Flow just makes them even easier to deal with.  

[(PSN)CptCosmic]

ps4 pleb here :) I really enjoy ivara, as much that I invested a few forma for a max. efficiency and +100% power strength build.

things I would like to see for ivara:

-ability to use quick melee with artemis bow activated just like any other ranged weapon can

-maybe secondary fire with artemis bow firing selected quiver arrow

-maybe a different way to select the arrows, e.g. holding the ability causes an arrow selection to pop up or holding the ability opens a radial selection. this would be alot faster than rotating through the arrows.

-why does melee with prowl cost energy (esp. annoying with multi hit finisher draining energy multiple times)? shooting weapons doesnt have energy cost either. just remove melee attack cost from prowl

-noise arrow working in group play

 

other than that, I dont use navigator, it is not very useful outside very specific case. I dont need the extra energy drain on top of artemis bow, prowl & quiver energy cost either. it may be fun to ramp up the damage with a glaive for each second of activation time but the energy drain also increases. after five seconds the drain is 13 energy per second (over 3 energy per second with max efficiency) and I could aswell just fire my silent primary weapon several times without energy cost.

Edited October 9, 2017 by (PS4)CptCosmic

[TKDancer]

also: make sound arrow worth a damn, all the other ones have some use, sound arrow just doesnt work, even if everyone is cloaked they seem to mostly ignore it

[Sanxxieh]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CptCosmic said:

ps4 pleb here :) I really enjoy ivara, as much that I invested a few forma for a max. efficiency and +100% power strength build.

things I would like to see for ivara:

-ability to use melee with artemis bow activated

-maybe secondary fire with artemis bow firing selected quiver arrow

-maybe a different way to select the arrows, e.g. holding the ability causes an arrow selection to pop up or holding the ability opens a radial selection. this would be alot faster than rotating through the arrows.

-why does melee with prowl cost energy (esp. annoying with multi hit finisher draining energy multiple times)? shooting weapons doesnt have energy cost either. just remove melee attack cost from prowl

-noise arrow working in group play

 

other than that, I dont use navigator, it is not very useful outside very specific case. I dont need the extra energy drain on top of artemis bow, prowl & quiver energy cost either. it may be fun to ramp up the damage with a glaive for each second of activation time but the energy drain also increases. after five seconds the drain is 13 energy per second (over 3 energy per second with max efficiency) and I could aswell just fire my silent primary weapon several times without energy cost.

 

4 hours ago, TKDancer said:

also: make sound arrow worth a damn, all the other ones have some use, sound arrow just doesnt work, even if everyone is cloaked they seem to mostly ignore it

> Artemis Bow is an exalted weapon. Same like you cannot shot guns while holding Excalibur's Blade, using Valkyr's Claws, Wukong's Staff etc, Artemis Bow does not allow you to use any other weapon but this one. Changing it would be senseless.
> alt fire of Artemis shots the chosen Quiver arrow.
> average hit on button of a human is 4-5 times per second... quiver has 4 arrows... means 1 second to full rotation. How faster would a press and hold + click system be?
> it is not as much melee attack cost but distance cost. In prowl as you stay in spot your energy is drained slowly, when you move the drain is increased. Melee attack cost is slight.
> noise arrow works in group play, as long as the group is aware and does not alert all enemies in the map. See, noise arrow works only on enemies who are not alerted. Once they see you or anyone from team or you trigger alarms - they won't care about the arrow. It's quite logic.

> noise arrow works and it is able to gather all enemies in a single point and allows you to control the crowd as in where they should go to. Noise arrow -> sleep arrow -> artemis boom -> profit.

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Sanxxieh

[(PSN)CptCosmic]

42 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

> Artemis Bow is an exalted weapon. Same like you cannot shot guns while holding Excalibur's Blade, using Valkyr's Claws, Wukong's Staff etc, Artemis Bow does not allow you to use any other weapon but this one. Changing it would be senseless.

one is a ranged weapon, the other ones are melee weapons though. 

you cant use any other weapon while holding a melee weapon, every melee weapon works like that. artemis bow is a ranged weapon though and it would make sense to have quick melee just like with any other ranged weapon ;)

additionally Artemis Bow works differently to other Exalted weapons. It uses energy per shot instead of a toggled drain, that means that other Exalted weapons have no drawback to any given attack made, while shooting Artemis Bow for a trivial matter (breaking a crate, Arc trap/Sensor Bar, etc) has a direct difference on consumption.

and considering that artemis bow can apparantly manifest out of nowhere and disappear just as fast (like when you use quiver without artemis bow active) it makes even more sense to have the ability to instantly drop the bow for quick melee.

 

42 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

> alt fire of Artemis shots the chosen Quiver arrow.

didnt knew that but I have also never tried it :>

 

42 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

noise arrow works only on enemies who are not alerted

which is pointless because you might aswell just nuke the enemies with the groups combined damage in the same time it would take to stop to make sure they are not alerted and set up a noise arrow.

42 minutes ago, Sanxxieh said:

it is not as much melee attack cost but distance cost. In prowl as you stay in spot your energy is drained slowly, when you move the drain is increased. Melee attack cost is slight.

melee attack cost twice as much as the drain per second of standing still. if you perform a multihit finisher then it drains several seconds worth of energy. that is not the point though and I will just shoot my primary instead.

Edited October 9, 2017 by (PS4)CptCosmic

[Sanxxieh]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)CptCosmic said:

one is a ranged weapon, the other ones are melee weapons though. 

you cant use any other weapon while holding a melee weapon, every melee weapon works like that. artemis bow is a ranged weapon though and it would make sense to have quick melee just like with any other ranged weapon ;)

additionally Artemis Bow works differently to other Exalted weapons. It uses energy per shot instead of a toggled drain, that means that other Exalted weapons have no drawback to any given attack made, while shooting Artemis Bow for a trivial matter (breaking a crate, Arc trap/Sensor Bar, etc) has a direct difference on consumption.

and considering that artemis bow can apparantly manifest out of nowhere and disappear just as fast (like when you use quiver without artemis bow active) it makes even more sense to have the ability to instantly drop the bow for quick melee strike.

 

(...)

 

which is pointless because you might aswell just nuke the enemies with the groups combined damage in the same time it would take to stop to make sure they are not alerted and set up a noise arrow.

melee attack cost twice as much as the drain per second of standing still. if you perform a multihit finisher then it drains several seconds of standing worth of energy.  that is not the point though and I will just shoot my primary instead.

> I see your point, but the game mechanics is like - you use exalted weapon - it replaces all your weapons. Most likely, the exalted weapon is not a physical weapon but rather a summoned projection and as it seems, the Operator has to use full focus on maintaining the Exalted weapon, so using any other weapon meanwhile would make them lose the focus and lead to "unsummoning" it. Eitherway, giving Ivara ability to quick melee during Artemis would be a bit too much though. Her Artemis is one of the strongest weapons available. As for energy per shot - that is why Zenurik was a dream for Ivara - endless energy - free Artemis shots. Soon it will change a bit though. How much? We'll see soon.

> When you perform a melee attack your toon moves in the direction of hit/combo, the energy drain is mainly caused cuz of that movement. It is similar thing as was with Hydroid Undertow a time ago. Any movement leaded to additional energy drain, even when using Tidal Surge, which in case of Hydroid was not intended.

[TKDancer]

3 hours ago, Sanxxieh said:

> noise arrow works in group play, as long as the group is aware and does not alert all enemies in the map. See, noise arrow works only on enemies who are not alerted. Once they see you or anyone from team or you trigger alarms - they won't care about the arrow. It's quite logic.

> noise arrow works and it is able to gather all enemies in a single point and allows you to control the crowd as in where they should go to. Noise arrow -> sleep arrow -> artemis boom -> profit.

 

nah m8, its extremely unreliable and enemies ignore it most of the time, even when unalerted

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

For those who don't know, Zenistar is not the only weapon that can kill unlimited enemies in Navigator.

Arca Plasmor can also kill unlimited numbers of enemies, as long as you only hit them with the AoE (not the main projectile).

As far as I can tell, the damage fall-off never triggers, nor does the limited max range of the projectile. I have guided an Arca Plamor shot around an entire defense tileset for an entire wave, so I am fairly certain of this.

[Sanxxieh]

9 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

nah m8, its extremely unreliable and enemies ignore it most of the time, even when unalerted

Never had a problem with that skill and I main Ivara for a longer time now. It is very helpful in some situations.

[DatDarkOne]

23 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

nah m8, its extremely unreliable and enemies ignore it most of the time, even when unalerted

Since the change DE put in some updates back, Noise Arrow has been working very well on alerted enemies in solo/stealth play.  The enemies just must not see you.  This is where it gets harder to do in groups.  I have yet to see everyone in a mission even try to be stealthy together in the two years that I've been playing with over 90% of that being with Ivara.

Edit: The skill's area of effect is effected by range.  

Edited October 9, 2017 by DatDarkOne

[yles9056]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I have yet to see everyone in a mission even try to be stealthy together in the two years that I've been playing with over 90% of that being with Ivara.

Same here. I can't remember when is the last time I see players doing stealth missions in pub game. That's why I'm suggesting DE to give noise arrow some additional effects.

 

I can see many people who commented here are good at using Navigator. But I just want you to know that there are 2 main reasons why I'm making those suggestions:

1. To make Navigator work well with more weapons.

2. To make Navigator more convenient to use. (It wouldn't harm right?)

The mini map change will be useful on PoE. While speed normalization, better speed control, and innate punch through will give players more weapon choices.

 

As for Artemis Bow, not being able to use melee slam attack is a bit inconvenient as I often use it when I want to land on a specific spot. That's all I have to say. However, I do think we can discuss this topic a bit more.

I can understand why we are not allowed to use guns while exalted melee weapon is activated since there is no quick fire in melee mode. But we do have quick melee while using guns.

Currently, there are three exalted range weapon/ability in the game: Artemis Bow, Razorwing, and Peacemaker. They aren't very consistent. Artemis Bow functions just like a regular weapon, but Ivara can't use melee weapon. On the other hand, Titania can use quick melee while Razorwing is activated. Although it can be argued that her melee weapon, Diwata, is also an exalted weapon.(By the way, DE pls buff Diwata! It sucks! ) Peacemaker is a completely different story. Mesa's Regulator pistols don't function like regular weapons. Mesa can't move, use other weapons, or even cast her other abilities.

Anyway, I personally don't think it would be that OP if Ivara can use melee weapon while Artemis Bow is activated.