The new Zenurik... Just no

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

2 minutes ago, Serenna187 said:

Looking at Steampsy's

What is that?

[Nirrel]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Yes, a third of the playerbase who can adapt to the changes, or drop the game.

So what? What is your point? Do you even have one?

Of course they can...People can adapt to insane things. That doesn't make those things good and it doesn't mean that they cannot point it out in the feedback section on the forums.

 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Just now, Nirrel said:

So what? What is your point? Do you even have one?

Of course they can...People can adapt to insane things. That doesn't make those things good and it doesn't mean that they cannot point it out in the feedback section on the forums.

My point is that everybody is like "AHHHHHHH AHHH THIS NEW FOCUS SYSTEM iS gARbagE DE FIX ITTTTTTT" instead of waiting to see what it'll play like. Also while addressing the other guys who are like "EO iS essenTIAL without EV TRiN or pADS". Like literally they are not.

[Serenna187]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

What is that?

you can't even fix a typo mentally can you...
http://steamspy.com/app/230410

people scream at the new focus system because everything that was revealed about it so far,is rubbish and so people expect it to be even worse than before

[Emulad0or]

2 hours ago, Mudfam said:

Damn...

It's Energy Overflow. Do you know how it works?

Exalted weapons cannot take advantage of it. It does not work for channeled abilities. Channeled abilities can exploit broken efficiency modding, especially as they have no duration.

Energy orbs are RNG. This means they may as well not exist for all practical purposes, because they might indeed not. Along with that goes the 5k plat energize.

Rage does not work on squishy frames with no healing.

Energy siphon is a bloody joke. Esp as it's virtually impossible to face higher level enemies without corrosive projection.

It's 4 energy per second, this doesn't allow you to spam abilities.

The remaining forms of energy regen are clearly bad and do indeed allow for absurd levels of ability spam.

 

None of your "arguments" make any sense whatsoever. We're not talking about nerfing one annoying weapon that encouraged a lazy plastyle here, we're talking about literally killing half the abilities in the game, 1/4 of the frames and a more active plastyle in favour of the lazy overpowered stuff that most people use already. And why? Literally every overpowered build / tactic / frame remains untouched, the one sensible energy mechanic and the weaker frames that struggled to keep are getting axed instead.

What is your agenda here? Just what..?

Do you know how it works?

"Exalted weapons cannot take advantage of it. It does not work for channeled abilities. Channeled abilities can exploit broken efficiency modding, especially as they have no duration."
Duration affects how much energy is used/sec on channeled abilities, but that doesn't matter.

"It's 4 energy per second, this doesn't allow you to spam abilities."
Again, math,ability 1 costs 25, 6.25 with efficiency build. 4 energy per second is 1 ability use every 1.56 sec. Ability 4 costs 100, 25 with efficiency, that is 1 ability use every 6.25 sec. How is that not spam again? And for free, no need for pizza, rage, anything, between one fight and another, you get enouth energy to just spam your 4 like crazy.

"Energy siphon is a bloody joke. Esp as it's virtually impossible to face higher level enemies without corrosive projection."
It's the same thing as Energy Overflow, only it doesn't allow you to spam... And my strun, my oberon, and I could find another number of things, can deal with high level Grineer (because last time corpus had armor was in Damage 1.0), but this is not what this thread is about.

"The remaining forms of energy regen are clearly bad and do indeed allow for absurd levels of ability spam."
Yes, at a price. You need to sacrifice a mod slot for Rage, a warframe on the team as a Trinity, your aura mod for Energy Siphon, your resources for pizzas. But Energy Overflow is free, you just have to wait 2min to activate it and there, infinite energy for the rest of the mission.

 

None of your "arguments" make any sense whatsoever. We're not talking about literally killing half the abilities in the game, 1/4 of the frames and a more active plastyle, we are talking about a passive you can activate for free that gives you infinite energy without any drawbacks. We are talking about not being able to adapt, to change your build our your gameplay if you love your build some much, to make it work without Energy Overflow. We are talking about viable options to get energy that will still be ingame after Focus 2.0

Edited October 3, 2017 by Emulad0or

[Chipputer]

Seen it in action? Nope.
Played with it, directly? Nope.
Read very basic descriptions that obviously aren't enough to judge on? Check.

Wait for it to get here and try it out before you immediately say no.

[letir]

Just now, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

My point is that everybody is like "AHHHHHHH AHHH THIS NEW FOCUS SYSTEM iS gARbagE DE FIX ITTTTTTT" instead of waiting to see what it'll play like. Also while addressing the other guys who are like "EO iS essenTIAL without EV TRiN or pADS". Like literally they are not.

I alredy played in Focus 1.0, and it's hot garbage. Why should I expected better results from Focus 2.0? Because you ASSUMING something?

[letir]

Just now, Emulad0or said:

"It's 4 energy per second, this doesn't allow you to spam abilities."

 

Again, math,ability 1 costs 25, 6.25 with efficiency build. 4 energy per second is 1 ability use every 1.56 sec. Ability 4 costs 100, 25 with efficiency, that is 1 ability use every 6.25 sec. How is that not spam again? And for free, no need for pizza, rage, anything, between one fight and another, you get enouth energy to just spam your 4 like crazy.

Sometimes people don't use 75% energy efficiency.

[zfenty]

EO was a great idea and revised eo just seems like it will be a weaker energy pizza. Shadowstep was fun, and it was an option. I maxed it, I played with it, then i stopped using it. Instead of nerfing things that are good how about buffing things that are bad. Also incredibly hyped to see the different focus school /perks/options that will be in POE. Keep up the good work DE.

Edited October 3, 2017 by zfenty

[Emulad0or]

5 minutes ago, letir said:

Sometimes people don't use 75% energy efficiency.

Then sometimes people could play without ability spam. I'm not saying you need 75% energy efficiency, I'm saying that it allows you to spam any skill for free once you use Energy Overflow

[Birdframe_Prime]

Hold up, this thread got ridiculous fast...

Before I get into my actual reply here, which is below your quote, just saying I'm going to be nope-ing out of the rest of this thread, it just hit stupid levels of prevarication really, really fast.

23 hours ago, Jukantos said:

Seriously, i just cant understand their angle of attack. They are cracking down on a casual playstyle that people are indeed relying on which IS FUN PLAYING WITH while completely ignoring stationary cheese strats like pizzas or EV Berehynia that are quite possibly doing financial damage to them (who buys boosters if you can just go to bere for 20 minutes) AND isnt fun to play at all (or do you know anyone who enjoys sitting on the bere pillar for half an hour?)

Okay, pause, I was with you in your arguments until here. Pizzas are not considered cheese because they're consumable gear, you have to pay resources and craft them, there is a constant and consistent cost to having these.

Second, Berehynia is just the latest in a long line of what are now called 'loot caves'. There will always be a node on the map that is considered the most efficient and cheese-able for affinity gain. Because players consistently try to find one. Always. DE have, again and again, shifted the map around to make sure these cheese nodes are removed by changing which maps appear for which mission type, and in the case of the old Draco, removing that map entirely from the tileset generation for the mission type. They have also, time and again, made changes to abilities that allow over-cheese in order to make sure that the cheese is reduced.

The argument that these styles are fun to play with is simply because it makes the game easy. It makes the game lazy. And DE have consistently made these changes over time to ensure that lazy gameplay is as far between as they can make it.

That in mind, the only reason that Energy Overflow exists right now is because the entire Focus System was waiting on DEScott to give direction on how to redo it. He said less than three months in that Naramon Shadow Step and Zenurik Energy Overflow were having unforseen levels of results and ever since then has said that when he was able to he would be breaking it down and doing it over again.

It's only due to the amount of time it's taken to get to that stage that people are complaining so much. Two years is too long for a 'test' of the system.

And one more point that I made earlier, for every single person that claims that they want to stay mobile in this game, not sit around in bubbles or on pizzas, there are six (defense, mobile defense, interception, excavation, defection and arena) modes that actively work well with standing around, and if we're completely honest even Survival has its spawns and mechanics designed to work best by finding a large room with lots of doors for enemies to spawn outside, and then camping it for as long as you can, charging around being 'mobile' in that actually makes the spawns slower and splits them up to keep them both ahead of you and some behind you as you go, so you don't last as long as you could.

Sure if you're a person that enjoys just Capture, Rescue, Sabotage, Exterminate, Hijack, Spy, and boss Assassinations (the other modes that don't involve archwing or PvP) and never touches the rest, you have a right to make that claim, but I doubt that actually encompasses many players.

Even on the Plains, the amount of run-and-gun will be only at best half of the game. The missions we've seen are 'go to location, do X at location, come back again' where the mobility is going to be useful for the going and coming back, but a bubble of energy restore may be amazingly suited for the 'do X at location' function.

Heck, has anybody ever considered that even in the current game speed with missions like Spy and boss Assassination we could benefit from this kind of bubble? Because I know for sure there are times when somebody (usually me) was solving a hack I dropped a quick energy plate to top up. If I could instead just Operator mode, Dash, then swap back (something that, thanks to Kuva Siphons, I have managed to get the timing down to a maximum of 2 Seconds) which meant I didn't waste a disposable resource, and still got the energy top up? I'd be doing that. Not to mention all the other effects this could potentially have with other active nodes. If I could do that at the start of a boss battle, before they start attacking, or during the invulnerability phases some of them have, I don't think anyone would have a problem with a Zenurik user dropping those bubbles.

I mean... think about this in another light here. Something I just thought of myself and I'm going to ramble a little.

Yes it's a nerf to personal energy gain, sure, I'll go with that for now. But it's a boost to team energy gain. The primary focus of DE's game here is that it's up to 4-player co-op. Teams of players are needed for the highest content, except if you have Zenurik or Naramon currently.

Zenurik now is promoting a very selfish play style, the 'I have energy, I'm fine' kind of attitude. Right? You can solo up to higher level where before Zenurik or Naramon we had to squad up. And that's something I think DE are trying to squash here too.

Nobody is seriously playing supports like Trin unless it's specifically for her healing and damage reduction, and likewise Harrow's energy regen seems pretty sub-par unless it's up constantly and many players pick him now for the reload speed, health regen and moments of team-wide invulnerability. But... new Zenurik restores energy to everyone, where old Zenurik would only drop bubbles of 'efficiency' instead. Now the entire team, regardless of what school they run, can benefit from having a Zenurik user in the group, right?

Now you could go with a Vazarin guy for the instant revives and damage immunity and he wouldn't suffer from lack of energy due to the Zenurik also supplying him, see? You could run with that invisible Unairu school turning everyone into stealth frames in range, and that Unairu player wouldn't lose out. A Madurai user for damage boosts to everyone or a Naramon user for the disarming when you have no Loki... and nobody would have to worry about the energy because the Zenurik user is there.

It's turning Zenurik from a purely personal gain tool to a team gain tool.

Everyone's so particular about the personal detriment, but it's a team net positive.

[letir]

Just now, Emulad0or said:

Then sometimes people could play without ability spam. I'm not saying you need 75% energy efficiency, I'm saying that it allows you to spam any skill for free once you use Energy Overflow

Any form of energy regeneration allow ability spam. Most of them are free. EO just most solo-friendly option.

[Emulad0or]

1 minute ago, letir said:

Any form of energy regeneration allow ability spam. Most of them are free. EO just most solo-friendly option.

Trinity or Harrow needs you to sacrifice your warframe choice or one of the 4 warframes on the team

Energy Siphon needs you to sacrifice your aura slot

Rage needs you to take damage, a risk depending on your warframe, and needs you to sacrifice a mod slot

Pizzas needs you to sacrifice resources, and mobility if you want the full 400 energy it provides

Energy Overflow is the only one that gives energy in a way you can spam without any drawbacks

[letir]

Just now, Thaylien said:

The argument that these styles are fun to play with is simply because it makes the game easy. It makes the game lazy. And DE have consistently made these changes over time to ensure that lazy gameplay is as far between as they can make it.

There is thousands of things which make game easy. EO make game "easy" and fun, unlike Maiming Strike macros or godlike Riven.

Nobody of you seems to understand that one of the defining features of Warframe it's superpowers, and players won't just give up their toys because of DE definition of right play.

[letir]

Just now, Emulad0or said:

Trinity or Harrow needs you to sacrifice your warframe choice or one of the 4 warframes on the team

Energy Siphon needs you to sacrifice your aura slot

Rage needs you to take damage, a risk depending on your warframe, and needs you to sacrifice a mod slot

Pizzas needs you to sacrifice resources, and mobility if you want the full 400 energy it provides

Energy Overflow is the only one that gives energy in a way you can spam without any drawbacks

So it's better to force players into tanky frames with Rage and mandatiry Trinity recruitment, or pizzas spam. This will totally make game more interesting.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

19 minutes ago, letir said:

EO just most solo-friendly option.

With this u hit nail over head. EO, Shadow Step removal and Combo Duration reduction on Snipers will have, imo, impact into Solo player base. 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 hour ago, Serenna187 said:

you can't even fix a typo mentally can you...

I clearly am not familiar with "SteamSpy". That was literally all on you.

Regardless, this doesn't even say your claimed "12 million". Stop making these claims please. This says around 900 thousand, and I'm certain this is just PC...

[Emulad0or]

Just now, letir said:

So it's better to force players into tanky frames with Rage and mandatiry Trinity recruitment, or pizzas spam. This will totally make game more interesting.

IF you want to spam your 4 twice every 10 seconds, or your 1 non stop, yes. That is called balance.

No one is telling you to play that way, I don't play tanky frames with Rage, I don't play Trinity, I use only 1 pizza when I actually need and I play mostly solo. All of that without Zenurik.

What you are complaining about makes as much sense as complaing about our ammo not regenerating by itself like in archwing because you want to use your Gammacor like it used to be, without taking your finger out of the fire button... You don't need to spam abilities like crazy, like it is the only thing you can do ingame. Like "look, a single enemy, let me use my 4 to deal with him"

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

55 minutes ago, letir said:

I alredy played in Focus 1.0, and it's hot garbage. Why should I expected better results from Focus 2.0? Because you ASSUMING something?

You just proved my point.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

I tend to use max effieceny when i build frames with a few exceptions, so I realy liked the energy gain from using the ability. It allowed me to take off energy syphen and mod out other stuff. looks like im back to one aura option if I want passive energy gain again :I

[Serenna187]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

I clearly am not familiar with "SteamSpy". That was literally all on you.

Regardless, this doesn't even say your claimed "12 million". Stop making these claims please. This says around 900 thousand, and I'm certain this is just PC...

learn,reading,and take in info granted
Score rank: 77% Userscore: 91% Old userscore: 91% Metascore: 68% 
Owners: 18,512,097 ± 122,705
Players in the last 2 weeks: 839,867 ± 26,654 (4.54%)
Players total: 11,848,336 ± 98,905 (64%)

[Almagnus1]

On 10/2/2017 at 3:24 AM, SurrealEdge said:

Sure, game is speedy, but uh, you forget that Berehynia has taken over for old Draco. And let's not forget the days of sitting in a sewer pipe in the void, because maximizing effectiveness.

I thought that was Akkad and not Berehynia?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Mudfam said:

-snip-

That's what unlogical make believe boils down to. I don't buy it as we all know how playing zenurik went for the longest time, you only confirmed it in the parts i quoted you. But again, enjoy the rework. DE makes slight adjustments from time to time but feel free to consider it final.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

24 minutes ago, Serenna187 said:

learn,reading,and take in info granted
Score rank: 77% Userscore: 91% Old userscore: 91% Metascore: 68% 
Owners: 18,512,097 ± 122,705
Players in the last 2 weeks: 839,867 ± 26,654 (4.54%)
Players total: 11,848,336 ± 98,905 (64%)

Those are players in the last two weeks. 900K.

[Gurpgork]

2 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Seen it in action? Nope.
Played with it, directly? Nope.
Read very basic descriptions that obviously aren't enough to judge on? Check.

Wait for it to get here and try it out before you immediately say no.

They gave us a sneak peek into the system, with the strongly implicit of collecting feedback on the direction they were planning to take with it, and people are providing feedback based on what information we have. 

1 hour ago, Emulad0or said:

Then sometimes people could play without ability spam. I'm not saying you need 75% energy efficiency, I'm saying that it allows you to spam any skill for free once you use Energy Overflow

Which makes efficiency the problem, not Energy Overflow. The efficiency stat is way too powerful, and it breaks every form of energy gain. We just don't notice it breaking Energy Vampire as much because Energy Vampire is ridiculously overtuned on its own.