Things wrong with Focus/Operator - a short list

[Toran]

I'm trying not to get too emotional again about my disgust with the operators in gameplay. Therefore I give you a short list why I and "maybe" others don't like the operators:

• Operators are a parallel system to your warframes
• Operators do an operator-exlusive damage type - this feels like self-purpose and a very blunt way to increase farming
• Game content is locked behind Operator-activity, there is no option to not use Operators. This is the main reason why some people, especially some Veterans/Founders aren't very fond of Operators - they didn't sign up to Warframe to play the Operator but be the Operator and play Warframe (you know, that's the title of the game, right?)
• Your years of playing Warframe, your mastery rank and your wide arsenal of warframes and weapons have no influence on the Operator. Although they're the Operator's tools by lore, it really seems vice versa: Operators feel just like another weapon you really don't want but have to level for its single-purpose, exclusive damage type
• Operators are supposed to have hundreds of years of combat experience - the Operator mode doesn't reflect that at all, they feel like fresh space cadets.
• The focus passives that enhance Operators the most (HP, Armor, movement speed, damage etc.), the way-bound skills, are the most expensive skills of em all. It takes 1,000,000 focus points and brilliant Eidolon shards to just unlock a skill's last point which is needed to make it way-bound (=active in all schools)... So the stuff to make your frail Operator better is locked behind the biggest grind and hardest content...
• The Operator's very own technical device, the Amp needs stone-age ingredients to be improved. Fishing & breaking rocks extremely very space ninja. Gumbo for Guns. Only alternative: trading the stuff. (added 2017-10-26)
• A good part of the Focus 2.0 tree is locked behind the glass-frame quest and unlocking the Quills faction. This requires you to visit the Plains of Eidolon, which bars out parts of the community with less dedicated hardware or having other technical issues with the PoE
• Your Focus 1.0 affinity is traded 1:1 in a new system that is artifically bloated. In relation to your former progress in Focus 1.0 the exchange rate is more like 10:1 or worse
• Focus 2.0 is an extreme revamp of the system with some boons switching schools. You should have transfered former affinity into a neutral affinity pool, freely to distribute to any new school
• Focus 2.0 descriptions are far too vague - are all Operator-related or do some benefit your warframes? Your PoE announcement mentioned active, passive and residual but doesn't clear those in detail. You expect us to distribute our old affinity without knowing what we get in return

And worst of all (and that hasn't changed with Focus 2.0 either):
Operators and Focus have no meaningful impact on Warframe's general gameplay. If you do anything but Operator-exclusive content, there's not much reason to pull out the Operator at all. They just feel like a very expensive gimmick, and that's what they truly are...

Final thoughts:
When I look at Operators and the extreme grind numbers behind Focus 2.0 I'm getting the impression they're the hardly-concealed concession to your Chinese investors. But perhaps I'm totally wrong there and you really love your Operators/Focus...

Your new quest system in PoE on the other hand is a step in the right direction. Mixed objectives, mixed enemy types with different tactics make sure that even Veterans have to be on their toes.

Now add some multi-staged challenging new bosses that ask for teamplay and coordination (like Lephantis and Kela de Thym) and this could become really, really good (only giving us the Operator-exclusive Eidolon was a bad idea). For good boss fight design look at MMORPG: besides teamwork there are often split tasks involved. You could mix the use of Operators and Archwings in the fight, or someone has to disable a device (by riddle) while the others defend him - just some of the ideas.
 

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Toran
added: Operator Amp upgrades require stone-age hunter-gatherer activities

[Lisztomaniac]

My first ever post, to suport your ideas, i agree completely, except on two points, "operators a parallel system" and "And worst of all" id like to elaborate:

speaking from someone who hated the operator with all his guts before PoE release, to the point of farming for about 300k for shadow step and just enough for energy overflow 1st lvl and then just ignored focus altogether, since those where the only two points worth the effort and they made me feel like they broke the game because of how OP they were (i only had 1 point in each), this is how my point of view has changed since PoE release:

1.- i dont hate the operator that much, i mean i hate him but i dont hate having to use him anymore, thanks to the warframe masks for some part, but mostly because of the changes in the fluidity of operator+warframe combat and the operator slide which makes him more mobile than a lot of frames.

2.-i dont see the operator or focus for that matter as neccesary at all, you can even kill sentients without operators if you hack one of the lures since they seem to make them unable to phase.

3.- focus trees while lacking specific super strong nodes, they are more utilitary alltogether, people complain about the loss of shadowstep as an example, but shadowstep was a permanent invisibility with a damage multiplier with a base duration of 4 secs thats ridiculous, but they dont see stuff like naramon now has technically a "body cout" mod integrated that works even with excalibur exalted blade, or that zenurik might not have permanent energy regen any more, but it has an on demand 30 energy regen with little to no cooldown and a spamable stun in a cone.

 4.- the operator brings nice utility to the table, such as the double tap shift plus the dash make him as mobile as a warframe (you could forget about mobility mods if you chose an operator+warframe playstyle), using void mode to revive teamates makes it imposible for enemies to stop you, 5+E+5 combo is an spamable on demand aoe knockback that can be changed in the focus trees to do specific stuff (stun/disarm/confuse), couple this with the fact that operators regen their energy in a mater of seconds, their "death" is riskless cause he doesnt die, and the fluidity from WF to operator, and operators become a pretty good utility tool in my opinion.

Operators a parallel system

those are the things i can think off that have made me stop hating playing the operator, i think people make a mistake as seeing them as "pararells" the operator to me is something you have to resort to when you want to sacrifice your power for utility, since its hardly a sacrifice considering operators energy is expendable as is his health, so he isnt really a parallel, he is an optional tool... most of the time.

however and i plan to do this, you can actually make the gameplay parallel but thats not a bad thing, you could pick focus specializations that would remove the need for some mods, which gives you a wider array of mod options for your builds and playstyles (im beginning to substitute body count since i have power spike). i think its a choice, you can play WF with focus passives, or spec heavily into focus and earn yourself "extra mod slots"

No meaningful impact

thats a subjective expresion, to a lot of players as ive seen, all that matters is pushing that soma damage, or that crit damage, to them thats a meaningfull impact, shooting a corridor fool of enemies dead, to me a meaningfull impact is being able to go invisible and immune as operator and revive any teamate, or playing as any frame and having being able to spam E in operator when youre a frame with no CC, or dashing your way out when youre a frame with no mobility, the utility and mobility that the operator brings to lets say nekros, makes the game for me more enjoyable than spending all my time farming for that next forma so i can do more damage every time i pull the trigger.

 

those are the only two points that i disagree with, the rest is extremely on point. sorry for the wall of text.

 

note: im not a native english speaker, and im bad at grammar even on my own lenguage so, chill.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[ACorpse]

The operator became a lot more tolerable for me when I was able to turn their inane chatter off.

[Shockwave-]

10 hours ago, Lisztomaniac said:

<snip>

 

I can imagine someone ,make the EXACT same points that you made in your post about say... Loki and spy  missions. Loki has utility. Sure you can't kill much and leave trails of enemies in your wake but loki has invisibility and actually has uses on a spy mission. He can get into vaults with less risk while invisible, he's insanely fast in case you set off the alarm, he's just plain useful when you want to do a spy mission.

Still, the day DE makes spy mission terminals hack-able ONLY by a Loki, and no other frame, I think you'd see a lot of salt. Its not how useful or how good an operator is, it's that you MUST use them. Plenty of frames are good. Many people love limbo. I HATE limbo. If had to play limbo i'd be upset. If I had to play Octavia I'd be upset, or Titania (all frames I loathe).  While those frames might be more useful to do things, like kill eidelons (Titania), Sortie defense (limbo), etc. I CAN do the missions with a different frame.

[Toran]

12 hours ago, Lisztomaniac said:

My first ever post, to suport your ideas, i agree completely, except on two points, "operators a parallel system" and "And worst of all" id like to elaborate:

speaking from someone who hated the operator with all his guts before PoE release, to the point of farming for about 300k for shadow step and just enough for energy overflow 1st lvl and then just ignored focus altogether, since those where the only two points worth the effort and they made me feel like they broke the game because of how OP they were (i only had 1 point in each), this is how my point of view has changed since PoE release:

1.- i dont hate the operator that much, i mean i hate him but i dont hate having to use him anymore, thanks to the warframe masks for some part, but mostly because of the changes in the fluidity of operator+warframe combat and the operator slide which makes him more mobile than a lot of frames.

2.-i dont see the operator or focus for that matter as neccesary at all, you can even kill sentients without operators if you hack one of the lures since they seem to make them unable to phase.

3.- focus trees while lacking specific super strong nodes, they are more utilitary alltogether, people complain about the loss of shadowstep as an example, but shadowstep was a permanent invisibility with a damage multiplier with a base duration of 4 secs thats ridiculous, but they dont see stuff like naramon now has technically a "body cout" mod integrated that works even with excalibur exalted blade, or that zenurik might not have permanent energy regen any more, but it has an on demand 30 energy regen with little to no cooldown and a spamable stun in a cone.

 4.- the operator brings nice utility to the table, such as the double tap shift plus the dash make him as mobile as a warframe (you could forget about mobility mods if you chose an operator+warframe playstyle), using void mode to revive teamates makes it imposible for enemies to stop you, 5+E+5 combo is an spamable on demand aoe knockback that can be changed in the focus trees to do specific stuff (stun/disarm/confuse), couple this with the fact that operators regen their energy in a mater of seconds, their "death" is riskless cause he doesnt die, and the fluidity from WF to operator, and operators become a pretty good utility tool in my opinion.

Operators a parallel system

those are the things i can think off that have made me stop hating playing the operator, i think people make a mistake as seeing them as "pararells" the operator to me is something you have to resort to when you want to sacrifice your power for utility, since its hardly a sacrifice considering operators energy is expendable as is his health, so he isnt really a parallel, he is an optional tool... most of the time.

however and i plan to do this, you can actually make the gameplay parallel but thats not a bad thing, you could pick focus specializations that would remove the need for some mods, which gives you a wider array of mod options for your builds and playstyles (im beginning to substitute body count since i have power spike). i think its a choice, you can play WF with focus passives, or spec heavily into focus and earn yourself "extra mod slots"

No meaningful impact

thats a subjective expresion, to a lot of players as ive seen, all that matters is pushing that soma damage, or that crit damage, to them thats a meaningfull impact, shooting a corridor fool of enemies dead, to me a meaningfull impact is being able to go invisible and immune as operator and revive any teamate, or playing as any frame and having being able to spam E in operator when youre a frame with no CC, or dashing your way out when youre a frame with no mobility, the utility and mobility that the operator brings to lets say nekros, makes the game for me more enjoyable than spending all my time farming for that next forma so i can do more damage every time i pull the trigger.

 

those are the only two points that i disagree with, the rest is extremely on point. sorry for the wall of text.

 

note: im not a native english speaker, and im bad at grammar even on my own lenguage so, chill.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts, you have some valid points there.

about 2.)
As far I know, the lures work on the smaller sentinels only. Against the Eidolon Teralyst you still need the Operators, the lures play a role in the final phase of the fight and influence the loot results. And you still have to use Operators if you want Kuva.

about 3.)
I can live well without Shadowstep too, concentrating on crowd control now (Nidus, Harrow, Nyx). The absolute best thing about the new Focus system is that you don't have to wait 4 minutes to activate the passives, any longer. Besides activating the passives, I don't use the Operators but for OP-exclusive enemies. Which brings me to

No meaningful impact
Since all my frames are trimmed for mobility (Rush mod at least), this never was a thing for me. You've got a very good point there, although you have to be very fast against strong enemies as 90% damage mitigation on your warframe don't help much if you stand around too long. For most warframe content it's a valid alternative to movement mods though, freeing space for other mods. Ressing in void mode really is meaningful, you're perfectly right there. Shields from Sanctuary only last that long, void ress can be the best method in a hard fight as it's independent of school or warframe (Shadowstep made me short-sighted in that matter).

Thanks for your hints.

[Lisztomaniac]

4 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

I can imagine someone ,make the EXACT same points that you made in your post about say... Loki and spy  missions. Loki has utility. Sure you can't kill much and leave trails of enemies in your wake but loki has invisibility and actually has uses on a spy mission. He can get into vaults with less risk while invisible, he's insanely fast in case you set off the alarm, he's just plain useful when you want to do a spy mission.

Still, the day DE makes spy mission terminals hack-able ONLY by a Loki, and no other frame, I think you'd see a lot of salt. Its not how useful or how good an operator is, it's that you MUST use them. Plenty of frames are good. Many people love limbo. I HATE limbo. If had to play limbo i'd be upset. If I had to play Octavia I'd be upset, or Titania (all frames I loathe).  While those frames might be more useful to do things, like kill eidelons (Titania), Sortie defense (limbo), etc. I CAN do the missions with a different frame.

i pointed out two points, that i disagreed with, neither of which have anything to do with what you said, because i actually agree with you, as i said in my post i disagree with the OP in two points, and they are pointed out in my post. and yes, forced operator use feels like being forced into catholic school as an atheist.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[Mewvg2]

It'd be nice if there was a reliable way of hitting the Focus grind cap in a reasonable amount of time without stealth exterminate. Warframe is about variety, ain't it?

[Toran]

27 minutes ago, Mewvg2 said:

It'd be nice if there was a reliable way of hitting the Focus grind cap in a reasonable amount of time without stealth exterminate. Warframe is about variety, ain't it?

Naramon's Affinity Spike (45% extra affinity from melee) should help there with lenses of any focus schools in the melee weapon. Gonna test this tonight with Madurai lenses and Naramon active and not active as primary school. Dark Sectors against Infested like Eris, Akkad dark or Pluto, Sechura (faster waves) might be a good thing.

Grind whenever you got an affinity booster or buy an affinity booster if that's your thing and you got the money.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Toran

[Sajochi]

How did I miss this post? Good points that highlight clear issues. This is how to give good feedback with systems you don't agree with. 

I'll read the full thing later and add some counter points, but I'm looking forward to further discussion @Toran

Edited October 17, 2017 by Sajochi

[Toran]

23 hours ago, Sajochi said:

How did I miss this post? Good points that highlight clear issues. This is how to give good feedback with systems you don't agree with. 

I'll read the full thing later and add some counter points, but I'm looking forward to further discussion @Toran

I'm looking forward to it. Meanwhile Tenno Monolake has posted a more pressing issue than the others:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/861005-how-to-progress-focus-when-you-cant-technically-play-plains/

Added it to the list.

[Awazx]

+1

[UltraLYT]

Can I just max out Energizing Dash for my frames if I have no interest to play operator?  I don't even need Madurai to kill the mobs even though I got millions of focus refunded.

Knowing that they will most likely destroy Focus 2.0 again in a year or so like they did to 1.0, I don't think I want to farm focus like in the past. 

[Xarteros]

On 15/10/2017 at 4:41 PM, Toran said:

 

• Operators are supposed to have hundreds of years of combat experience - the Operator mode doesn't reflect that at all, they feel like fresh space cadets.

 

Wrong. Our operators have only begun realising the full potential of their power since the War Within. The Operators weren't even conscious until the Second Dream quest.

Think of it like the Matrix. Why do Neo's eyes hurt? Because he's never used them in the real world before. Our Operators have been not only asleep for countless decades/centuries, but they've been in the Second Dream, piloting the Warframes. Only just now have they truly awoken, and begun learning to master the powers of the void beyond the utilisation of the Orokin Warframes.

The more I try out the amps and focus powers, the more I enjoy playing Operators, but it's still far from integrated. That said, there's heaps of opportunity to work them in from here, and quite a few of the changes are in the right direction.

I just want to be able to kill Kuva guardians with my Operator Amp now, instead of needing to blast/dash combo them. Then I'll be happy

[Jakorak]

I WANT to enjoy my operator, but I'm frustrated with how the focus farm got hardcore bloated into a bigger beast, and they essentially went "you farmed about an hour every single day for a year and a half to finish our terribly designed endgame focus system? nah son, not enough. how about you FARM MORE FOCUS POINTS"

Not to mention 45 SECOND CONVERGENCE ORBS ARE A STAIN ON THIS GAME'S DESIGN THAT NEEDS TO BE WIPED CLEAN! I NEED A GOSH DARN ANSWER DE, WHY DO YOU INSIST ON THIS GARBAGE?!?

[Toran]

8 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Wrong. Our operators have only begun realising the full potential of their power since the War Within. The Operators weren't even conscious until the Second Dream quest.

Think of it like the Matrix. Why do Neo's eyes hurt? Because he's never used them in the real world before. Our Operators have been not only asleep for countless decades/centuries, but they've been in the Second Dream, piloting the Warframes. Only just now have they truly awoken, and begun learning to master the powers of the void beyond the utilisation of the Orokin Warframes.

The more I try out the amps and focus powers, the more I enjoy playing Operators, but it's still far from integrated. That said, there's heaps of opportunity to work them in from here, and quite a few of the changes are in the right direction.

I just want to be able to kill Kuva guardians with my Operator Amp now, instead of needing to blast/dash combo them. Then I'll be happy

Alright, they were not self-aware but they spent their whole life fighting, after that time it's hardwired in your mind and body - like shifting gears becomes second nature after a while for us mortals. In terms of Matrix: it's like Neo had spent all his Matrix life in the Dojo before Morpheus even showed up.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Toran

[Toran]

9 hours ago, modalmojo said:

Can I just max out Energizing Dash for my frames if I have no interest to play operator?  I don't even need Madurai to kill the mobs even though I got millions of focus refunded.

Knowing that they will most likely destroy Focus 2.0 again in a year or so like they did to 1.0, I don't think I want to farm focus like in the past. 

You can max it out, it's no way-bound skill (so no need to farm the Eidolon) - you just need to get the focus points. I don't have the skill tree at hand - you maybe need to do the glass frame quest to unlock the Quills and the full tree.

[Standoff25]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 3:41 PM, Toran said:

I'm trying not to get too emotional again about my disgust with the operators in gameplay. Therefore I give you a short list why I and "maybe" others don't like the operators:

• Operators are a parallel system to your warframes
• Operators do an operator-exlusive damage type - this feels like self-purpose and a very blunt way to increase farming
• Game content is locked behind Operator-activity, there is no option to not use Operators. This is the main reason why some people, especially some Veterans/Founders aren't very fond of Operators - they didn't sign up to Warframe to play the Operator but be the Operator and play Warframe (you know, that's the title of the game, right?)
• Your years of playing Warframe, your mastery rank and your wide arsenal of warframes and weapons have no influence on the Operator. Although they're the Operator's tools by lore, it really seems vice versa: Operators feel just like another weapon you really don't want but have to level for its single-purpose, exclusive damage type
• Operators are supposed to have hundreds of years of combat experience - the Operator mode doesn't reflect that at all, they feel like fresh space cadets.
• The focus passives that enhance Operators the most (HP, Armor, movement speed, damage etc.), the way-bound skills, are the most expensive skills of em all. It takes 1,000,000 focus points and brilliant Eidolon shards to just unlock a skill's last point which is needed to make it way-bound (=active in all schools)... So the stuff to make your frail Operator better is locked behind the biggest grind and hardest content...
• A good part of the Focus 2.0 tree is locked behind the glass-frame quest and unlocking the Quills faction. This requires you to visit the Plains of Eidolon, which bars out parts of the community with less dedicated hardware or having other technical issues with the PoE (added 2017-10-18)
• Your Focus 1.0 affinity is traded 1:1 in a new system that is artifically bloated. In relation to your former progress in Focus 1.0 the exchange rate is more like 10:1 or worse
• Focus 2.0 is an extreme revamp of the system with some boons switching schools. You should have transfered former affinity into a neutral affinity pool, freely to distribute to any new school
• Focus 2.0 descriptions are far too vague - are all Operator-related or do some benefit your warframes? Your PoE announcement mentioned active, passive and residual but doesn't clear those in detail. You expect us to distribute our old affinity without knowing what we get in return

And worst of all (and that hasn't changed with Focus 2.0 either):
Operators and Focus have no meaningful impact on Warframe's general gameplay. If you do anything but Operator-exclusive content, there's not much reason to pull out the Operator at all. They just feel like a very expensive gimmick, and that's what they truly are...

Final thoughts:
When I look at Operators and the extreme grind numbers behind Focus 2.0 I'm getting the impression they're the hardly-concealed concession to your Chinese investors. But perhaps I'm totally wrong there and you really love your Operators/Focus...

Your new quest system in PoE on the other hand is a step in the right direction. Mixed objectives, mixed enemy types with different tactics make sure that even Veterans have to be on their toes.

Now add some multi-staged challenging new bosses that ask for teamplay and coordination (like Lephantis and Kela de Thym) and this could become really, really good (only giving us the Operator-exclusive Eidolon was a bad idea). For good boss fight design look at MMORPG: besides teamwork there are often split tasks involved. You could mix the use of Operators and Archwings in the fight, or someone has to disable a device (by riddle) while the others defend him - just some of the ideas.
 

 

I agree with you. Personally I had no problem when Operators were added into the game when the Second Dream quest came out since they didn't impact gameplay too much. But now we are seeing Operators becoming more active in gameplay elements that just makes me for one very unhappy with me rather having Warframe oriented gameplay over anything Operator based. That and it was also my assumption that it was the Warframes that were the major contributing factor that helped push the Sentients back with the Operators merely being used as a power source for the Warframes.

Another thing what made DE think combat operators was what we wanted? It is probably the last thing that a lot of us wanted in the first place for it just dulls down combat into a set of tedious phases which is most likely going to be a trend that will continue unless more people speak up. This includes the recently added Eidolons such as getting the Eidolons shields down damaging or tearing off it's limbs then rinsing and repeating the process all over again. 

If this was their attempt at making a challenging enemy then they have gone about it the wrong way with this being a very shoddy gameplay design and mechanic. It also calls into question on how the Tenno even defeated/pushed back  the Sentients if this is the method used to take down Eidolons which doesn't make much sense to me since it seemed that the Sentients started loosing a lot of ground they made when the Tenno became involved in the war.

That and I don't see operators as any form of Warrior when the Warframes are more capable of taking down enemies and as you said this is unwanted but is necessary due to the unique damage type they have which shouldn't be and Operator exclusive. Anyway I am massively disappointed with the addition of such a feature and hope that DE will not implement any future content surrounding such a feature.

[Jhura]

The only problems I have are:

1. the bloated focus farm; yes there are ways to go about farming focus but Warframe is all about variety right?
2. I also dislike the way-bound passives being blocked by the Brilliant Eidolon Shard, as they are not guaranteed plus to have a better chance you really need to group which isn't always the go-to thing for solo players; this seems really strange we would need this item in the first place to unlock the abilities anyway since we just spent over 1mil focus for it. 

Finally, I get that there are people who don't like the Operator and wish to opt out of using one in some way. But I really hate rescue missions and I am forced to do them for some quests or missions. I think the rescue AI is terrible, I hate the whole stealth sneak around (oddly enough I don't hate spy missions). So, I guess there are parts to all games that not everyone is going to enjoy that they will have to do at one time or another.

Side note: I have been enjoying some of the operators new abilities. Unairu's Magnetic Blast is fun to use as it is like having a mini-magnitize from Mag on any warframe and I have found uses for it, plus it can be applied to multiple enemies in one blast. 

[UltraLYT]

What else can the operator do what our frames can't, apart from e.g. blasting the Kuva Guardians, Vomvalsts and Teralysts in order to kill them?

[xxswatelitexx]

The part that irks me the most is the only way to "Improve" your operator is by doing very specific mission in PoE.

I mean since when did Cetus become the training ground of all operators and all operator equipment? 
They should give operator gear to all syndicate factions - similar to archwing, then allow those parts to be tradable. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by xxswatelitexx

[Xarteros]

15 hours ago, Toran said:

Alright, they were not self-aware but they spent their whole life fighting, after that time it's hardwired in your mind and body - like shifting gears becomes second nature after a while for us mortals. In terms of Matrix: it's like Neo had spent all his Matrix life in the Dojo before Morpheus even showed up.

I don't think you understand mate. They spent their time fighting, yes.

Fighting with Warframes.

This is literally the first time they've been trained to extend their powers beyond transference. This is a thing they were never taught to do, and never learned on their own.

Not to mention, the lore already states that we forgot most of what we know during our long dream in cryosleep, which is the explanation of why we all start with unranked gear. Our Tenno were already masters of the warframes, and masters of gun and blade, but they forgot most of that during their dreams. Of course, the player's actual skill represents the Tenno's latent instinct to fight, but our mastery of the frames and weapons still needs to be renewed.

[Standoff25]

15 hours ago, Xarteros said:

I don't think you understand mate. They spent their time fighting, yes.

Fighting with Warframes.

This is literally the first time they've been trained to extend their powers beyond transference. This is a thing they were never taught to do, and never learned on their own.

Not to mention, the lore already states that we forgot most of what we know during our long dream in cryosleep, which is the explanation of why we all start with unranked gear. Our Tenno were already masters of the warframes, and masters of gun and blade, but they forgot most of that during their dreams. Of course, the player's actual skill represents the Tenno's latent instinct to fight, but our mastery of the frames and weapons still needs to be renewed.

I have to disagree with you here it doesn't seem quite true there that they have forgotten their mastery over weapons and the warframes.

Using media and representations of a Tenno waking up for the first time it seems they are already aware of how a Warframe works.

Skip to 3.26 when watching.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6cIRZlMQ3g

That doesn't seem like they have forgotten how to use weapons with the skill to use weapons and Warframes appears to still be there with how they were able to not only catch that Skana but also cut that electrocution ball thing Vor likes to throw around a lot not something that someone who has forgotten how to use a sword could do with any form of finesse. While nothing complex I have other stuff that goes into more detail.

Here is a link to the Warframe Wiki for the old faction information on the Tenno for I don't think the new one is as detailed as the old one.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Tenno

It is stated that their mastery over guns and blades along with the Warframes has not faded while more misc memories have with the Tenno still having the capability of fighting at a masters level but knowing very little about themselves.

As for the unranked gear issue that would be more of a gameplay design with most older weapons like the Skana and the Braton, being around as long as the Tenno have been with most weapons most likely having a primed counterpart in the past which the Tenno would of mastered already or had a similar weapon exist at that time, giving the Tenno an understanding of how a new weapon works. So if we were to apply real world value's to this game then unranked gear would not exist rather I think Tenno would be more proficient with certain weapons like one would be more skilled with a sword than a staff. Another thing mainly for the Warframes being moddless I should state that Alad V was able to obtain Tenno in Cryo with fully modded Warframes and turn them into well Zanuka with him being unable to capture Tenno before he created the Zanuka hunter.

So it can be assumed that one should wake up with a Warframe decently modded etc, ect, at least whereas new players join moddless when that shouldn't be the case.

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by Standoff25

[kgabor]

On 10/15/2017 at 7:41 AM, Toran said:

Operators feel just like another weapon you really don't want but have to level for its single-purpose, exclusive damage type

Fodderators?

[Fallen_Echo]

13 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Fodderators?

spot on

[SnuggleBuckets]

If I can express one aspect of my dislike with operators when compared to Warframes, it's that warframes are a slightly silly, slightly cheesy, still fun, cool space ninja wizards powerfantasy with awesome weapons.
Operators are indoctrinated, dogmatic, brainwashed child soldiers who talk like creepy nazis with warrior honour culture. They sound like their moral compass has been broken by all the nazi camps and military training in their childhood, aping a Hannibal impression with their monotone pre-teen voice while talking seriously about honour, glory and purging places like they did in the good old days.
If the devs wanted a grimdark cheesy campy vibe they should have gone for the silly tone of Warhammer 40k Space Marines, with their silly accents and over-the top tone that always hammers home in a much more humorous and less creepy way their religious xenophobic fascist ideology, where you instantly can tell how self aware it is when they yell "purge the heretic!".
Seeing a psychopathic teenager say in a creepy voice how they will defeat all who oppose them, uuuuggghhhh.
Thank goodness I can mute that voice over though. Now to just keep avoiding playing the War Within.