Founders Exclusivity [solution/suggestion]

[texrei]

6 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

I guess I'd need context on cases where they treated non-founders as garbage. I watched a couple dev streams and followed different DE posts across the internet and all I see is thank yous going out to all the player base, but I could be missing something that you know and I don't.

What I do know is I looked up some excal prime stuff out of curiosity and after seeing how other players treat founders simply for being founders I was just amazed at where gaming has gone in 2017.

I'm not sure, maybe this ones?

Quote

these founders helped get DE and Warframe off the ground they deserve to have higher ranks and exclusive items

Quote

"Seeing Excal P in a mission is like seeing a hero for DE."  Crusader's who stood their ground, drew their swords and shined their light in the darkest hour, to be dramatic.

When new players begin to ask founder items to be returned, the most people start to demand "a respect" for founders who "get this game to the point where it is now" and forget about other people who made their investments.

[(PSN)SageHeed]

17 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

I guess I'd need context on cases where they treated non-founders as garbage. I watched a couple dev streams and followed different DE posts across the internet and all I see is thank yous going out to all the player base, but I could be missing something that you know and I don't.

What I do know is I looked up some excal prime stuff out of curiosity and after seeing how other players treat founders simply for being founders I was just amazed at where gaming has gone in 2017.

It is true that some non-founders express their frustration in a manner that, let's say, lacks eloquence. This does not negate the fact that some of us have legitimate arguments. These arguments often get ignored or overlooked. I don't argue against giving founders special treatment, I argue against that treatment being exclusive gear. Surely there are things we could give founders that would appease them into accepting the release of their Primes? I've listed some in an earlier post here but noone has replied to it. Here's another idea; Give them access to Baro's latest shipment through a tab in the store for the two weeks he's away. Give them enough of reasons to agree to releasing those Primes.

Edited November 5, 2017 by (PS4)SageHeed

[Frosthaven83]

@texrei I don't know, those quotes seem fairly reasonable. The first one sounds like an honest and agreeable position to take and the second one just sounds like a dramatic player perspective of said position. Can you say that the first quote is factually wrong? Sure everyone deserves equal respect as players, but these guys invested in a game that from what I understand wasn't that great at the time - they invested in a vision and a hope (much like I've done with star citizen)

@(PS4)SageHeed I can sort of understand a collector's debacle. I often tell people I have part-time OCD when it comes to collecting everything in the games I really enjoy. For me the issue is much softer since I don't really classify excal prime as a part of the collection in the first place but rather an aside to it. It reminds me of when I first got into World of Warcraft vanilla and I bought collectors editions that came with vanity pets and later an attached achievement for owning it - the achievement showed if you had it but wasn't in the achievement catalog if you didn't own a collectors box (so no grayed out achievement you can never tick). I'm almost positive that in retrospect DE probably wishes excal prime was just a premium skin for excal knowing what they know now, but that was a promise that was made - and in my mind it is incredibly important for that promise to be kept. How much faith would you have in a company that promised one thing but then did another, especially when your money was tied up in it? Would you continue to support them?

Edited November 5, 2017 by Frosthaven83

[Fake_Tree]

11 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

I'm almost positive that in retrospect DE probably wishes excal prime was just a premium skin for excal knowing what they know now, but that was a promise that was made - and in my mind it is incredibly important for that promise to be kept. How much faith would you have in a company that promised one thing but then did another, especially when your money was tied up in it? Would you continue to support them?

I completely agree with you here, which is why I was saying that they should not bring back the full excal p, just a substitute that allows for collectors to have their collection/MR and what ever else, and let founder have their exclusive items. and people with say that umbra is this, but that does not solve the MR/Collector topic.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Fake_Tree

[Eidolon_Slayer]

3 hours ago, Agent40Infinity said:

I'm not a founder however I'm here to ask, Why the hell can't these few exclusive, special people, Not understand what the meaning of exclusive is? "If you don't like these ideas (because you are a founder)" Now, to address the arrogance of this sentence. You know there are other people (Most of this community) that accept what the word "Exclusive" means and how important that word is to others. I've seen multiple threads of this same topic repeating the same ideas over and over (Guess what, you just were added to the repeated Idea list!) and they all are given the same answer by People, Founders and None Founders (Mainly None Founders) saying that it should stay exclusive and have no issue with it. The only real things founders have to fear is if DE give into people like you making a ca-motion over nothing. Also you know we're getting Excalibur Umbra too right? Isn't that enough for you?

This video is also quite helpful for those who continue to make "Founder Exclusive" or "Excalibur Prime exclusive" Threads.

 

 

 

[Corvid]

49 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

I'm almost positive that in retrospect DE probably wishes excal prime was just a premium skin

If I had a time machine, I'd probably pop back and suggest this to them.

[----Legacy----]

55 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

I'm almost positive that in retrospect DE probably wishes excal prime was just a premium skin for excal knowing what they know now, but that was a promise that was made

You should google prime time 126, check for a comment with timestamps and watch steve talking about both, founder gear and the old vandals to see how he regrets that decision and still can't do anything to change it. I'd pist video with timestamp but it's hard to do on mobile.

[texrei]

42 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

@texrei I don't know, those quotes seem fairly reasonable. The first one sounds like an honest and agreeable position to take and the second one just sounds like a dramatic player perspective of said position. Can you say that the first quote is factually wrong? Sure everyone deserves equal respect as players, but these guys invested in a game that from what I understand wasn't that great at the time - they invested in a vision and a hope

Maybe this first support was really decisive, but i still think that newer players who buy stuff also deserve something to feel important and a little special. Some sort of cosmetics to show off and inspire to give more. Or maybe some little privilege. Anything

[Fake_Tree]

35 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

You should google prime time 126, check for a comment with timestamps and watch steve talking about both, founder gear and the old vandals to see how he regrets that decision and still can't do anything to change it. I'd pist video with timestamp but it's hard to do on mobile.

 

[KentuckyKid_69]

At least the creator gave it some good thoughts but Excal Prime should never ever come back, no matter how dedicated and how much money you put into this game. Thanks to those Founders, taking a huge gamble, we all can enjoy and appreciate a "Free to Play" game and what it has become. They made this whole thing possible and they deserve something special and unique. Just my opinion and I really wish I could have Excal Prime but I'm totally fine not having him.

[Frosthaven83]

27 minutes ago, texrei said:

Maybe this first support was really decisive, but i still think that newer players who buy stuff also deserve something to feel important and a little special. Some sort of cosmetics to show off and inspire to give more. Or maybe some little privilege. Anything

While I certainly wouldn't speak for anyone else, I'm a fairly new player and it doesn't bother me at all. I'm more saddened over all the missed primed mods everyone runs around with that I won't see for a very long time because those are more new-player-punishing than a slightly alternate frame.

In the end it wouldn't bother me if they chose to do something or leave it as is either way - it just really caught me off guard when "founders in general are selfish snowflakes" was a common trending argument out there. We're all gamers, and we apparently all enjoy the same game. Hey we're almost family - we shouldn't be at each others throats over who spent money at a particular time and who didn't! That's really the only hill I'll die on in this whole thing.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Frosthaven83

[Phoenixian_Ultimatum]

The only way that I ever see any of the founders pack (Excal Prime, Lato Prime, Skana Prime) coming back is if Warframe hits a big milestone year (i.e 10 or 20 years) and even that is a very, very slim chance. Outside of some very large and impressive milestone for a game like this.

 

Trust me as somebody that has been around since late U15 the topic of ways/theories/ideas/etc about what could be offered to the founders in exchange has been brought up and discussed to death. I like everybody else would love to get there hands on these items (for me I'd honestly be more excited for Lato and Skana P than Excal), but I know that there is likely no chance that this will happen. Sorry to burst your bubble (not that many people already haven't).

[rand0mname]

Please, just leave Exalibur Prime alone.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

6 hours ago, Carnage2K4 said:

There is no Problem...
It WAS exclusive, that was the deal...
And that's basically the end of it...
Sure I want him too... But I can't have him and I accept that fact, time for you to do that also.

 

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)sh3kvothe said:

I gotta be honest I get the frustration in the MR cap but I mean...these founders helped get DE and Warframe off the ground they deserve to have higher ranks and exclusive items. I wonder where DE would be with Warframe right now without them? 

I feel these two sum it up.

Anyone who doesn't get it, I'll bring you your cheese later to go with that drink.

Oh, and no, I'm not a Founder, so don't have Excal P or any other Founder exclusive.

[khaotixxx]

Excalibur prime was a one time offer. It was offered to people that trusted DE in the very beginning of the game. it was like a gamble on wether the game will work or not:

- If it didn't worked : money "waisted"

- If it worked: Congrats, you have the only exclusive item in the game (without talking about Skana and Lato P)

 

The big problem that came with those founder exclusive item is the hate towards founders because they have what the rest of people don't. But ist it really a big deal ? Exca prime is barey better than the classic one (In stats + appearance, he just have a single void key on his nose...)

Having content locked behind the barrier of being a founder isn't proper to WF, many others games do this to recompensate people that trusted the dev team and yet the community doesn't constantly make threads in order to get this content. THen why should it be done in WF ?

 

I'm not a founder myself, and i don't give a goddamn f**k having those items (even if i'm a collectionist) because they are here to remind everyone that We/The game wouldn't be here today without the support of those people.

So please let them in peace ffs

[DoomHarbinger]

all of you are awesome  

[Lokidus_Prime]

7 hours ago, Fake_Tree said:

I would also like to state at the top as a note that I do not believe Excaliber Prime (In his original form) should NOT be released as a buyable/farmable frame.

Is that statement supposed to have a double negative? (I'm assuming you mean that he shouldn't be released)

 

7 hours ago, Fake_Tree said:

2) They say that people who own Excaliber Prime are those who are dedicated enough to warframe to have purchased the item in the first place back in the early days of the game. This will follow the same concept as idea to 1) except  the only way to aquire him is after playing a certain period of time (Maybe something like 1000 days). This way it still shows the dedication to the game, and allowing for others still reach the heighest possible MR with the inclusion of this item.

With DE recently announcing their plan to implement Login Reward tracks to chose from, (which allows players to work towards those rewards that require hundreds of days of logins much quicker if they choose to), I don't know how well this idea would work with that system.  Unless that specific reward gets locked behind that  a 3-year login wall as players could just start the track for that reward.

 

7 hours ago, Fake_Tree said:

3) (Though this would be bad for the game) Give worse stats/same as default Excaliber

The only difference between base Excaliber and Excaliber Prime is that Excal P has 25 more base armor and a couple more polarized mod slots.  Excaliber Prime wasn't meant to necessarily be an upgrade over normal Excaliber, nor did DE want Excal P have a significant advantage over regular Excal due to not wanting it to be P2W.  The 25 extra base armor isn't really noticeable and the polarities can easily be achieved on regular Excal with forma.

To make things perfectly clear, I'm not opposed at all to the idea of re-releasing Excal Prime for everyone to have and I know there are other founders who feel the same.  There are founders who feel quite the opposite though and don't want others to have these things for various reasons.  Because of how  insanely heated the community has gotten over such topics and the fact that DE has legal obligations with it (due to people spending real money on it) is why it can't happen.  Even releasing a different but very similar item could have its issues and as far as I know, DE wants to avoid repeating the same mistake of creating more exclusives.

 

7 hours ago, Fake_Tree said:

 I have put time, and money into the game, I own all the old frames, e.g. Ember Prime, old Frost Prime and also weapons like the scindo, reaper, and other primes like this, these are my forms of "excusive" items, and when they gave out Frost Prime free with Twitch Prime users I had a feeling of frustration

Those items may be your version of 'exclusives', but the vaulted primes were never ever stated anywhere to be exclusive in any way, shape, or form.  They originally only ever became vaulted in the first place to prevent over-dilution the void's drop-tables (which the relic system was SUPPOSED to fix....).  While I don't like that the Frost Prime pack was given away by having to go through Twitch, I do feel it was a nice and meaningful reward to give to players, as well as help bring in new ones. 

This is really the only thing that i have a discrepancy with in your post, as I feel like players getting upset over people getting Frost Prime from twitch is just silly and childish.  Yes, some people may have spent real money on it in the past, but imo, this does not necessarily give them a right to say "other people shouldn't have this thing for free because I paid real money for it" when there were already ways to obtain it without paying, whether it be farming, or trading things to save up the plat to buy the set from someone.   That's not to say that you said any of those things, but the 'feeling frustrated' at players getting frost prime from twitch is along those lines in my book.

[Fake_Tree]

45 minutes ago, Sin1989 said:

Is that statement supposed to have a double negative? (I'm assuming you mean that he shouldn't be released)

Yes, you are correct, thanks. :)

-----------------

With DE recently announcing their plan to implement Login Reward tracks to chose from, (which allows players to work towards those rewards that require hundreds of days of logins much quicker if they choose to), I don't know how well this idea would work with that system.  Unless that specific reward gets locked behind that  a 3-year login wall as players could just start the track for that reward.

I was implying that it does not get affected by this change. As in it is seperate from the actual login reward drop pool, therefore at lets say 1000 days founders get a sigil +boosters or what ever, and others get that+some form of excaliber counter-part. I will add as a note that instead of dropping it all, just have excal prime 20(year) at 1000 days, Skana Prime 20(year) at 2000 days and Lato P 20(year) at 3000 days, similar to the teirs of the actual founder part.

Here is where I will also say again that I do not want Excaliber Prime/Founders Pack released again, only a counter-part that allows for a player to obtain the missing MR and collection.

------------------

The only difference between base Excaliber and Excaliber Prime is that Excal P has 25 more base armor and a couple more polarized mod slots.  Excaliber Prime wasn't meant to necessarily be an upgrade over normal Excaliber, nor did DE want Excal P have a significant advantage over regular Excal due to not wanting it to be P2W.  The 25 extra base armor isn't really noticeable and the polarities can easily be achieved on regular Excal with forma.

This is true but with the planned release of Umbra I'm not sure whether Excalibre Prime will be buffed, but if not the stat boost + polarity is not the main goal.

-----------------

To make things perfectly clear, I'm not opposed at all to the idea of re-releasing Excal Prime for everyone to have and I know there are other founders who feel the same.  There are founders who feel quite the opposite though and don't want others to have these things for various reasons.  Because of how  insanely heated the community has gotten over such topics and the fact that DE has legal obligations with it (due to people spending real money on it) is why it can't happen.  Even releasing a different but very similar item could have its issues and as far as I know, DE wants to avoid repeating the same mistake of creating more exclusives.

With this point I will say that I know that they cannot release the Founders Pack again, that why I was suggesting having a counter part that can complete the sets. But after looking through this thread for the past few hours I have seen good reasons of both sides so I  can't really say too much.

----------------

Those items may be your version of 'exclusives', but the vaulted primes were never ever stated anywhere to be exclusive in any way, shape, or form.  They originally only ever became vaulted in the first place to prevent over-dilution the void's drop-tables (which the relic system was SUPPOSED to fix....).  While I don't like that the Frost Prime pack was given away by having to go through Twitch, I do feel it was a nice and meaningful reward to give to players, as well as help bring in new ones. 

Yea, I know that it was never stated, I was just giving an example of where I can understand their fustration of why it should never be re-released, and I agree with all who have that point of view. I (and probably others) just want a counter-part that non-founders could have. I started this thread to see if I can put out some form of solution that can make most people happy, whether it was a unique idea one or not.

I would like to say that I am also greatful for the risk that  founders took to make this game great. I often say to my friends "that its amazing how this game can actually exist" with AAA graphics, some of the best story missions ever, and a game so jammed with content diversity that you can still be interest after almost 5 years. I respect the fact that they bought those items when I was too blind to do so, and I know DE needs to keep their promise, which I know they will. I just want something that can be given to a player to show appretiation to ones true dedication to the game/fanbase, and I know there must be something to do this, maybe is something along the lines of my proposal (maybe not). Though there will have to be much more thought due to the fact that some founders put in a profound amout of work and they need to be compensated in the same way, I am just not sure how.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Fake_Tree

[Lokidus_Prime]

24 minutes ago, Fake_Tree said:

I would like to say that I am also greatful for the risk that  founders took to make this game great. I often say to my friends "that its amazing how this game can actually exist" with AAA graphics, some of the best story missions ever, and a game so jammed with content diversity that you can still be interest after almost 5 years. I respect the fact that they bought those items when I was too blind to do so, and I know DE needs to keep their promise, which I know they will. I just want something that can be given to a player to show appretiation to ones true dedication to the game/fanbase, and I know there must be something to do this, maybe is something along the lines of my proposal (maybe not). Though there will have to be much more thought due to the fact that some founders put in a profound amout of work and they need to be compensated in the same way, I am just not sure how.

I would love for there to be a way to give something overall to the player-base that compensates them for their support that doesn't interfere with any of the founder stuff.  There are a great number of people who currently support the game.  Yes, founders helped the game get started in its infancy, but without the others who came to support after the founders packs were gone, the game couldn't have gotten as far as it has.  It's just an extremely delicate subject that I know DE would have to tread very carefully with should they ever do such a thing.

[Warhawg01]

12 minutes ago, Sin1989 said:

I would love for there to be a way to give something overall to the player-base that compensates them for their support that doesn't interfere with any of the founder stuff.  There are a great number of people who currently support the game.  Yes, founders helped the game get started in its infancy, but without the others who came to support after the founders packs were gone, the game couldn't have gotten as far as it has.  It's just an extremely delicate subject that I know DE would have to tread very carefully with should they ever do such a thing.

Or maybe their reward could be the enjoyment they get from playing the game. Does everyone who pays for Prime Access need a pat on the back and a trophy to display? 

Have you played POE yet? DE dedicated it to entire player base with a huge thanks.  I'm guessing that's not enough for some folks. 

[Lokidus_Prime]

20 minutes ago, Warhawg01 said:

Or maybe their reward could be the enjoyment they get from playing the game. Does everyone who pays for Prime Access need a pat on the back and a trophy to display? 

Have you played POE yet? DE dedicated it to entire player base with a huge thanks.  I'm guessing that's not enough for some folks. 

Taking my comment a little out of context, as it was in response to the OP who was suggesting the possibility of introducing items similar to what the founders got.  I personally do not want anything for myself either in terms of compensation. I paid for a founder pack when they were available, and I got what i paid for, i don't deserve or want anything more than that for myself. (not saying that you said that i did, just putting that out there)

Perhaps things could have been phrased better in my comment, but the gist of the idea is that founders still get a lot of praise and respect from DE - which is understandable.  However, I do think it'd be a nice gesture to acknowledge those who aren't founders but still show support for the game.  Founders helped the game in its infancy, and the people who have supported and/or currently support it help the game to continue to grow - that's something that shouldn't be valued any less just because those people aren't founders.

And to answer yer question........ yes.... I have played PoE, currently max rank with the ostrons, and soon to be the quills too.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Sin1989

[Warhawg01]

I don't really care about your standing. My question related to the opening screen of the update with the message from DE dedicating this massive update to the game to us, the players, and thanking us for playing (and paying) for Warframe. 

Is this not enough for some people? Not you in particular, but to everyone. 

Why do people (again, not anyone in particular) think they are entitled to some shiny digital object to show off? I have spent a ton of actual money on this game, so much I'm afraid to actually count it. Why? Because I enjoy this game and I want there to be more of it. I want nothing else. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

Personally, I have and will continue to assert that The Founders exclusive for Excal Prime should remain exclusive.

...But it should never have been the only version of Excal Prime available.

All platforms should have gotten access to a Excalibur Prime Type:II, Type:B, S, or something ...same for the Lato and Skana.

Make the other versions automatically awarded as skins to the Founder with those items

Why? It maintains exclusivity without creating needless division in the playerbase.

It effectively closes the Mastery Rank gap (which is the only viable argument—however weak it is— anyone has ever made regarding the Founders exclusives)

....Some folks are going to complain regardless because that's what some folks do.

 

Hopefully Excal Umbra closes that gap for players... I'm personally not a fan of Umbra and would rather have seen DE do something elegant and unique to address this issue that didn't involve teasing an item that got developed for an entirely different region and entirely different game but never bothered to release it for their own cash cow.

Simply put, Umbra feels like I am going to be asked to pay full price for someone else's leftovers.

 

[texrei]

26 minutes ago, Warhawg01 said:

I don't really care about your standing. My question related to the opening screen of the update with the message from DE dedicating this massive update to the game to us, the players, and thanking us for playing (and paying) for Warframe. 

Is this not enough for some people? Not you in particular, but to everyone. 

Why do people (again, not anyone in particular) think they are entitled to some shiny digital object to show off? I have spent a ton of actual money on this game, so much I'm afraid to actually count it. Why? Because I enjoy this game and I want there to be more of it. I want nothing else. 

If you can't understand other people desires - don't tell them what to wish and what not to, and don't interfere. Especially if you feel happy

[DroopingPuppy]

Excaliber Prime is not released again. It is the promise of DE, and they never violate this.

Well, I DO think that they may relase an another version of Excaliber, though, but It is danger to release something looks similar to Excaliber Prime. Same stats seems OK, but NOT same looks.

 

IF I am a DE staff, and I have a plan to release an another version of Excaliber, then I will also give the new type of Excaliber to all people that bought founder pack by free. I doubt that they are not so rich enough to get a new Excaliber(both real worlds and in-game), but anyway free new Excaliber for the founders still makes them special, and it would be also the minimum of decency as well.