Primes Should not be Side-grades

[(PSN)psycofang]

8 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

I agree that Prime 

I agree that Prime weapons should be better than the regular ones. 

Been better does not necessarily means powercreep. A faster reload or bigger mag might mean a better weapon without making it OP. 

 

But they currently ARE better without Power Creep rearing its ugly head. Quite frankly i prefer this over slow escalating creep or galatine primes insanity. We need to reign in this constant flood of OP crap if this games ever going to be balancec.

Edited December 13, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[Mr.Lube]

8 hours ago, --Q--Forcellrus said:

So term "Prime" itself means something worse now? I don't really see why are you trying to justify the price of 50$ for those weapons, people are literally paying for junk.

Prime refers to "first". Nothing states that the first variant must be better. With this being said, the Akbolto Prime are incredibly good.

Sorry that you didn't get the insane power creep you wanted. Some of us enjoy balance and options.

[nickelshark]

10 hours ago, Zephyr_TheMLGPro said:

It has less damage than telos but has base 35% crit and reaches to 103% with just primed pistol gambit. Not to mention you can pretty well hit orange crits with a good riven

I knew holding off on rerolling my crit riven for the akbolto was a good idea.

Edited December 13, 2017 by nickelshark

[saradonin]

Except these weapons are obviously not sidegrades.
And this thread doesn't make any sense otehr than attention seeking.

Some lower stat weights don't automatically classify these weapons as sidegrades. Both Akbolto P and Kogake P require different modding and in effect both are much stronger than regular and syndicate versions. What did you expect? Flat 10-15% boost to all stats? That would be lazy and boring. Better learn to mod properly and stop spreading disinformation.

Edited December 13, 2017 by saradonin

[Comrade]

11 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Right from the Wiki: "Primes frequently sport improved damage, more Polarity slots, or other stat changes that grant them an advantage over their non-Prime derivatives." Why should an easier to obtain version of a weapon offer more than the Prime variant that takes relics, traces, and RNG to unlock?

Because less crit for more status, or less base damage for crit is a clear upgrade and makes me want to invest forma into something that is better when the Crit RNG works in your favor.

"frequently" means not always. Anyways, from what i've read in everyone's posts these weapons actually seem meta-embracing powercreep. another crit pistol with over 100% crit chance after one mod? a high status weapon with the introduction of Condition overload? Primes often are sidegrades in one sense or another but they are always overall better, especially with the current damage meta. My dex sybaris and sybaris prime are close to each other but the syb prime wins out because it has status AND high crit, which fares better in endgame. base damage, unless you're talking opticor to amprex levels of damage nerf, it doesn't actually matter because your overall DPS gets a buff. The same argument was originally made between Tigris P and Sancti Tigris, that tigris p was only a sidegrade. Time has told us that no, it clearly wasn't.

[Rawbeard]

4 hours ago, Carnage2K4 said:

Akbloto

I keep making the same typo for years.

[Bronjun]

11 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Right from the Wiki: "Primes frequently sport improved damage, more Polarity slots, or other stat changes that grant them an advantage over their non-Prime derivatives."

frequently 

[EZIOilMentore]

I haven't tried the Akbolto Prime or the Kogake Prime yet, but the way you put it, they don't sound seriously underpowered... so I don't see what's wrong. Primes don't always need to be the best version. At least the Telos Akbolto won't become completely irrelevant. Maybe that's exactly why they didn't make the prime version the absolute superior, they want different styles of modding/gameplay. I'd rather not have it end up like the Sancti Tigris, which I haven't even touched ever since I got my Tigris Prime.

Also, one needs to max Arbiters to get the Telos Akbolto, and that takes a great deal of time. Personally, looking at all relics for it, I feel I would sooner get the Akbolto Prime if I were a newer player consistently farm for it, so I don't know what you mean about the Telos Akbolto being easier to obtain.

Edited December 13, 2017 by EZIOilMentore

[Autongnosis]

To be honest i'm with Voltage on this one. Calling them sidegrades is wrong for sure, because the Akbolto Prime definitely are better than the Telos Akbolto, but all things considered the base damage AND firerate reduction is a bit unwarranted considering the Telos aren't exactly a stellar gun in the first place. 

Not every prime has to be a Galatine/Tigris prime, but on this one going by numbers alone (haven't tried them yet, still farming) it definitely wouldn't hurt to get something more. Even more so since the other variant is already not great. 

For reference the old build i used on the Telos got to about 33k, while the one i'll be using on the Primes gets to about 38k. All the whike having comparable status chance. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Autongnosis

[Marvelous_A]

I think the prime is still overall a better version of Akbolto over Telos and normal counterparts. With half base damage it gets almost quadrupled crit chance, 0.8x more crit multiplier and halved reload time. It's still unarguably the better version, just not Sancti Tigris-Tigris Prime kind of difference.

[Carnage2K4]

11 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

I keep making the same typo for years.

It's not a typo in this case.

[BornWithTeeth]

Funny thing...this Prime version of the Kogake comes up to par with the Hirudo, but for Status, not Crit, with no inherent lifesteal, and in my opinion is still outshone by the Prisma Obex. The Kogake Prime has roughly two and a half times the base damage, and base Status of 34% compared to the P. Obex’ 30%, which is pretty damned impressive...but the Prisma Fista has a base attack speed so high that you don’t need an attack speed mod, and scales really hard with both Crit and Status, making it an absolute monster.

 

So, I guess I’m not concerned? Prisma Obex is still probably king in sparring category for the speed and hybrid build, whereas the Kogake Prime doesn’t just have lower crit chance, but lower crit multiplier too. Still a fantastically solid pire Status weapon, mind.

 

[Interlagos]

12 hours ago, saradonin said:

Except these weapons are obviously not sidegrades.
And this thread doesn't make any sense otehr than attention seeking.

Some lower stat weights don't automatically classify these weapons as sidegrades. Both Akbolto P and Kogake P require different modding and in effect both are much stronger than regular and syndicate versions. What did you expect? Flat 10-15% boost to all stats? That would be lazy and boring. Better learn to mod properly and stop spreading disinformation.

This.

Anyone who thinks either of these new prime weapons are mere sidegrades needs to re-evaluate their understanding of weapon stats and how to mod them.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Says prime shouldn't be sidegraees to the normals

 

Uses telos akbolto instead of vajilla akbolto for argument's sake

 

 

 

Says it's a nerf because it has lower base dmg even though it has higher cc and cd

 

Because 5 dmg is better than 4 dmg x 2

 

 

 

 

Mkay, i'll be leaving

[Sapphic-Sandra]

Lmao the Akbolto Prime has like twice the burst and sustained dps of the Telos. Side grade my &#!. 

[iArucard]

Well Kogake prime needs some buff