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[royblazin]

.

Edited January 23, 2018 by royblazin

[Skaleek]

Isn't margulis dead? If not then it will be whoever has the better weapons. Just as it's been since the dawn of time.

[Phobonaut]

There's no way we will cooperate with Hunhow. That's like Superman joining forces with a pile of sentient kryptonite.

[Guest]

natus & hunhow! why? because i see the truth! Lotus our spacemom back stabbed tenno! spacemom doesn't even care about us ( the children!

*girl you gotta care about children man*)

i shall go to change.org site and i vote for our spacemom should get fired and we want riot! we want better leader! like Teshin! all hail Teshin! SPACEMOM HOW COULD YOU DO TO US! YOU BETRAY US! 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Guest

[(XBOX)IceTriden7]

Please use the spoiler tag.

[royblazin]

5 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Isn't margulis dead? If not then it will be whoever has the better weapons. Just as it's been since the dawn of time.

Well, I think you know how continuity works right? Orokins are people who do not see death the same way, after transferring from body to body by carrying with them their memories, Ballas intends to revive Margulis by using Natah's collective memories of her from all the Tenno Operators and Natah, to resurrect her. She will be the same mother we all knew and love. Also, I know it's a lot but please try to read the whole thing. so that things make sense.

Edited January 3, 2018 by royblazin

[NinthAria]

6 minutes ago, royblazin said:

Well, I think you know how continuity works right? Orokins are people who do not see death the same way, after transferring from body to body by carrying with them their memories, Ballas intends to revive Margulis by using Natah's collective memories of her from all the Tenno Operators and Natah, to resurrect her. She will be the same mother we all knew and love. Also, I know it's a lot but please try to read the whole thing. so that things make sense.

Memories of someone, even cross-referenced over a lot of people, still can't accurately recreate that person. At best it'd just be...well, Lotus again, basically. And besides that, given a choice between the Orokin and the Sentients, I think, story-wise, the Tenno would be inclined to do what they originally did and just kill them both. Neither one has any claim to the moral high ground at this point.

Also, as others have pointed out, you should really include a spoiler tag. The Apostasy Prologue is still relatively new and only accessible late in the game; there's a fair chance somebody clicking into this thread hasn't done it yet.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

interesting theory. honestly all I want is the opportunity to empty both barrels of my beloved Tigris Prime in Ballas' face. let's see how beautiful and symmetrical he looks after a 12 gauge makeover! you take space mom, I take your head!

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I serve the beam. They all have forgotten the face of their fathers. They will all die. IMO that is. 

#gimmiethoseshines

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

interesting theory. honestly all I want is the opportunity to empty both barrels of my beloved Tigris Prime in Ballas' face. let's see how beautiful and symmetrical he looks after a 12 gauge makeover! you take space mom, I take your head!

 

Lol

[Sarge_Tarmus]

@royblazin Your theory is far from being possible, but I'd love to be able to choose between Sentient and Orokin. Joining forces with Hunhow would be an interesting experience, and I also thought about possibility of siding with Stalker and to finally ending the Old War by killing the last of Orokin. Also, if Ordis could possess any warframe and as Ordan Kharris come to kill Ballas...

Edited January 4, 2018 by Sarge_Tarmus

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

First sentence "lotus is gone"

 

wait, what?

[Skaleek]

1 minute ago, Sarge_Tarmus said:

I'd love to be able to choose between Sentient and Orokin. Joininh forces with Hunhow would be an interesting experience

Agreed

[royblazin]

20 minutes ago, NinthAria said:

Memories of someone, even cross-referenced over a lot of people, still can't accurately recreate that person. At best it'd just be...well, Lotus again, basically. And besides that, given a choice between the Orokin and the Sentients, I think, story-wise, the Tenno would be inclined to do what they originally did and just kill them both. Neither one has any claim to the moral high ground at this point.

Also, as others have pointed out, you should really include a spoiler tag. The Apostasy Prologue is still relatively new and only accessible late in the game; there's a fair chance somebody clicking into this thread hasn't done it yet.

"Basically from what I have been told and from what was discussed, we will need both the Sentient and the Orokin along with the Tenno to defeat the Man In The Wall and his Legion of Void Demons which were the same demons that were taken and detained then infested and modified in order to create the Warframes. Which is just a .theory. And yes I will add the spoiler tag right now

[royblazin]

9 minutes ago, Sarge_Tarmus said:

@royblazin Your theory is far from being possible, but I'd love to be able to choose between Sentient and Orokin. Joininh forces with Hunhow would be an interesting experience, and I also thought about possibility of siding with Stalker and coming to finally end the Old War by killing the last of Orokin. Also, if Ordis could possess any warframe and as Ordan Kharris come to kill Ballas...

Again this is not my theory as I stated in the OP, but what makes you think this is far from possible? Are you one of the people who has not done the Apostasy Prologue that so many have warned me about and told me to put up the spoiler tag? If so then I am truly sorry but I went to eat dinner.

[Sarge_Tarmus]

6 minutes ago, royblazin said:

Again this is not my theory as I stated in the OP, but what makes you think this is far from possible? Are you one of the people who has not done the Apostasy Prologue that so many have warned me about and told me to put up the spoiler tag? If so then I am truly sorry but I went to eat dinner.

I completed the apostasy prologue the same day it came out. I just don't think, that Hunhow could say, that

 

56 minutes ago, royblazin said:

      their hatred for the Orokin and all things Orokin were so strong that he and his daughter were willing to sacrifice their ability to reproduce, which was sacred to them, for the sake of those in the Tau System and in order to destroy the Orokin and everything that they have created including the "Void Demons", an entity he refers to as completely cold and indifferent, he tells us of how the Orokin worship it and how the Sentient were despised by it, but also about how the Tenno are the gateways for it to pass through into this world and that is why all of the Orokin including the Tenno must be destroyed or the Old War will never end. You, the Operator, then argues that things didn't have to be this way at all and that if we could just talk things out and come to an understanding, you try to convince Hunhow that his way of thinking is wrong, but then he snaps at you saying that you do not remember what you did or what you truly are...then after a moment of silence he says that you are not completely wrong though and begins talking about the Sentient culture and life and how family is the most important thing to them and through those talks you realize how much the Sentient care for each other and would be willing to sacrifice anything to keep each other safe. You now realize that you may have been fighting on the wrong side all along.

     

 

[royblazin]

11 minutes ago, Sarge_Tarmus said:

I completed the apostasy prologue the same day it came out. I just don't think, that Hunhow could say, that

 

 

Well if you remember the quest Natah and even in the Second Dream. You can see how much Hunhow still cared for his daughter and was even impressed by how clever she was for hiding the Operators in the Moon and keeping the Moon hidden in the void, you could say he was proud even, despite her betrayal. In Natah he specifically says that the others will awake and claim that she is riven and he will not be able to stop them. This is a very common trait among the Sentient, he cares for his species in the same way that the Lotus cares for us, the Tenno. And if you put that into perspective the Sentient and Hunhow aren't evil at all, you hurt their family and they will seek vengeance at any cost. In this story there is no absolute good or evil.

[Tarak]

So, here a few problems with this. Putting aside the fact that Hunhow and the stalker want, more than anything else, for us to be dead (and Ballas likely does too, given the whole fact that during the reign of the empire he was gonna have us killed and ended up not doing so because of the discovery of our ability to use transference. Then we then killed all the other Orokin.); Natah didn't use Margulis' memories to make herself into the lotus, it used OUR memories to make the Lotus. The Lotus isn't Margulis, She's our interpretation of Margulis wrapped over the mind of the sentient Natah.

Also, Continuity isn't something we fully understand yet. I believe, however, that Warframe looks at Human individuals as entities with a soul. When someone dies, that soul moves on, unless the individual has received an administration of Kuva, which pulls the mind and the soul of the individual from their body and makes them one of two things; an Orokin, or a Cephalon. The difference between these two is that Cephalons have their minds edited by an Orokin and aren't returned to natural bodies, they are used as neural slaves. Orokin on the other hand are effectively their original selves, but can now move from body to body through continuity, a process that seems to use kuva to strip away the mind of the new host body and instills the Orokin mind (and soul) in it's place. What makes us special, why the Orokin were so afraid of us, is likely the same reason the sentient fear us: We can kill them by, I believe, consuming their soul, which would destroy their mind.

After the collapse, our destruction of the empire, the vast majority of us went into cryo-sleep, more accurately we but the bodies we were transferred into to sleep. A few, it would seem, stayed waking, notably the stalker, who went on to be revealed the truth of his existence as a Tenno by the Lotus and it would seem rejected that truth and either put his true body back to sleep or fully transferred into his Warframe. That said though, through all that time we slept, Ballas, it would seem kept himself hidden away, revealing his presence only now, and only to Margulis. Keep in mind that The Apostasy Prologue played more like a dream than reality. We fell into a pit below the place we slumbered for so long as our Warframe and landed in a hallway that looked like a Cephalon's void space as our true selves to walk into normal room were the Lotus was? we weren't physically there, not initially. we've had visions before and I believe this quest prologue was another one of them. The intro sequences to The Second Dream and the War Within were the same way, now you might say 'Those were just cinematics!' but the into to The War Within was followed with the Tenno saying they just had a strange dream, and then once we got to the chamber we said 'I've... been here before'. Well we had in vision, a void based transference fueled remote viewing.

I believe that Margulis, the original, is good and truly dead, but that Ballas wants to turn this new Margulis against us and bring her under his wing (or perhaps more accurately, his branch like arm XP). I believe that the Stalker, if he discovers that Ballas is still alive will shift allegiances and go to serve his true Orokin master, rather than Hunhow, the sentient that wants everything Orokin dead. I believe that Apostasy will lead into the Sacrifice, and that we will, in our solitude, abandoned by The Lotus, be approached by an entity we've not met yet but has been watching us. Excalibur Umbra, an original Warframe, a Warframe with it's own will and an intact mind. A protector, a Dax, that sacrificed their own life to give us a chance at having one ourselves.

[METAHUMVN]

1 hour ago, Phobonaut said:

There's no way we will cooperate with Hunhow. That's like Superman joining forces with a pile of sentient kryptonite.

DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR

#KILLALLSENTIENTS

[royblazin]

44 minutes ago, Tarak said:

So, here a few problems with this. Putting aside the fact that Hunhow and the stalker want, more than anything else, for us to be dead (and Ballas likely does too, given the whole fact that during the reign of the empire he was gonna have us killed and ended up not doing so because of the discovery of our ability to use transference. Then we then killed all the other Orokin.); Natah didn't use Margulis' memories to make herself into the lotus, it used OUR memories to make the Lotus. The Lotus isn't Margulis, She's our interpretation of Margulis wrapped over the mind of the sentient Natah.

Also, Continuity isn't something we fully understand yet. I believe, however, that Warframe looks at Human individuals as entities with a soul. When someone dies, that soul moves on, unless the individual has received an administration of Kuva, which pulls the mind and the soul of the individual from their body and makes them one of two things; an Orokin, or a Cephalon. The difference between these two is that Cephalons have their minds edited by an Orokin and aren't returned to natural bodies, they are used as neural slaves. Orokin on the other hand are effectively their original selves, but can now move from body to body through continuity, a process that seems to use kuva to strip away the mind of the new host body and instills the Orokin mind (and soul) in it's place. What makes us special, why the Orokin were so afraid of us, is likely the same reason the sentient fear us: We can kill them by, I believe, consuming their soul, which would destroy their mind.

After the collapse, our destruction of the empire, the vast majority of us went into cryo-sleep, more accurately we but the bodies we were transferred into to sleep. A few, it would seem, stayed waking, notably the stalker, who went on to be revealed the truth of his existence as a Tenno by the Lotus and it would seem rejected that truth and either put his true body back to sleep or fully transferred into his Warframe. That said though, through all that time we slept, Ballas, it would seem kept himself hidden away, revealing his presence only now, and only to Margulis. Keep in mind that The Apostasy Prologue played more like a dream than reality. We fell into a pit below the place we slumbered for so long as our Warframe and landed in a hallway that looked like a Cephalon's void space as our true selves to walk into normal room were the Lotus was? we weren't physically there, not initially. we've had visions before and I believe this quest prologue was another one of them. The intro sequences to The Second Dream and the War Within were the same way, now you might say 'Those were just cinematics!' but the into to The War Within was followed with the Tenno saying they just had a strange dream, and then once we got to the chamber we said 'I've... been here before'. Well we had in vision, a void based transference fueled remote viewing.

I believe that Margulis, the original, is good and truly dead, but that Ballas wants to turn this new Margulis against us and bring her under his wing (or perhaps more accurately, his branch like arm XP). I believe that the Stalker, if he discovers that Ballas is still alive will shift allegiances and go to serve his true Orokin master, rather than Hunhow, the sentient that wants everything Orokin dead. I believe that Apostasy will lead into the Sacrifice, and that we will, in our solitude, abandoned by The Lotus, be approached by an entity we've not met yet but has been watching us. Excalibur Umbra, an original Warframe, a Warframe with it's own will and an intact mind. A protector, a Dax, that sacrificed their own life to give us a chance at having one ourselves.

How are there problems? Kuva seems to take different forms and is quite versatile in how it is used but also why would Ballas want to turn Margulis against us? Why do we have this innate assumption to perceive everyone else as evil except for ourselves? What does Ballas have to gain by turning Margulis against us for now reason? And of course Stalker will very likely shift allegiances but what's more likely to happen is that the one who will make the Sacrifice is the Shadow Stalker himself.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

interesting theory. honestly all I want is the opportunity to empty both barrels of my beloved Tigris Prime in Ballas' face. let's see how beautiful and symmetrical he looks after a 12 gauge makeover! you take space mom, I take your head!

 

I want to mount his arm on my Pedestal Prime.  You fon't DUCK with my family.

A Silverback tears limbs from body to protect his family.

Edited January 4, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Phobonaut]

1 hour ago, Tarak said:

and Ballas likely does too, given the whole fact that during the reign of the empire he was gonna have us killed and ended up not doing so because of the discovery of our ability to use transference. Then we then killed all the other Orokin.

I don't think Ballas wanted the Tenno dead as much as he thought Margulis' life was more important than the Tenno. And I doubt Ballas really gave a S#&$ about the Orokin. They killed the love of his life - I imagine he's kind of sad the stable influence of the Empire is gone and replaced by braindead worker drones acting like a civilization and corrupt swindlers pretending to be nobility, but I doubt he cared when the Tenno killed off the Seven Emperors.

Also, the Stalker is simply a human soldier from the Orokin armies. Hes not a Tenno. Read his code entry.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Phobonaut

[royblazin]

1 hour ago, Phobonaut said:

I don't think Ballas wanted the Tenno dead as much as he thought Margulis' life was more important than the Tenno. And I doubt Ballas really gave a S#&$ about the Orokin. They killed the love of his life - I imagine he's kind of sad the stable influence of the Empire is gone and replaced by braindead worker drones acting like a civilization and corrupt swindlers pretending to be nobility, but I doubt he cared when the Tenno killed off the Seven Emperors.

Also, the Stalker is simply a human soldier from the Orokin armies. Hes not a Tenno. Read his code entry.

You are 100% right about Ballas but I don't believe the Stalker is simply a human soldier because Lotus actually talks about him and the secret of the Tenno driving him mad, during the Second Dream quest.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I will have to decide based on how logical Hunhow's account is of the sentient race.

If they are innately peaceful and only driven to be hostile due to the Orokin's oppression and if he can be peaceful now, there is nothing wrong befriending him or siding with the sentients especially since Lotus is partly sentient Natah too and we call her Space Mom.

I mean the Orokin were undoubtedly evil in the past but that does not mean Ballas and Margulis cannot create a better Orokin and bring order to the system.

Based on the theory, both sides aren't exactly wrong and Hunhow's hatred for the Orokin is heavily misplaced on Ballas and Margulis who had helped bring down the very enemy they shared.

As such, if there can be a compromise or neutral solution which there will be given how the allignment system works, I will pick the middleground.

I don't want to play as an evil character and I am a pretty big lore fan so for me, I don't really wanna decide my character's path based on the rewards because I don't mind spending money and platinum to just buy them either. However, if the "light" path and "dark" paths each offer something exclusive which cannot be bought, I will just pick the "light" path.

 

On a side note, I am quite confident at some point, we will make this choice:

(a) Restore Natah the sentient and lose Margulis.

(b) Restore the Lotus by making Natah share Margulis' body again but this time letting Margulis be aware of this.

(c) Leave Margulis as per what Ballas already did and destroyed Natah.

Which 1 will be put as good, neutral or bad, I don't know but I am certain it won't heavily impact gameplay.

Edited January 4, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[(XBOX)Mechanomaly]

4 hours ago, royblazin said:

and his Legion of Void Demons which were the same demons that were taken and detained then infested and modified in order to create the Warframes. Which is just a .theory.

Don't make this complicated. As already mentioned in one of your other threads, the Operators are just referred to as "Void Demons" by Helminth. Nothing more, nothing less.