Please Stop the Leeching Problem

[Ragnarok160]

I feel like over the 2 years I've played Warframe the leeching problem is getting worse, or at least isn't being addressed at all. My first question is what criteria I use to report leeching, a lot of the times i use harassment since it seems like the closest but i don't want to get strikes against my account if i end up bring wrong. It also doesn't help that when i call out leeches people in the group tell me "its not a big deal" or "stop worrying about it". it is a big deal, i get when i see mr 10 or lower players that really don't know what there doing but when I'm doing max sortie spy missions and mr 20 people aren't doing anything, well that's a problem. Then there are people who go into missions that are 60 and higher bringing trash into the mission so we have to res them every couple of minutes and 90% of the time the person claims they are trying to power level there frame/ weapon. I'm not asking for a kick system or anything (lord knows humanity isn't responsible enough for one) but at the very least let us do something about it. if DE wont address it then at least the community should frown on it.

Typical cases of leeching

Spy- at least 90% of the time i play spy there are leeches, more so at the lower levels but about 70% of the time during sorties, just today i played a spy sortie as Ivara with 3 Lokis, the mr 12 loki got a point and i took 2 points, the second i did 2 players were at extractions, one was mr 20 the other mr 15. There's no reason i should have to take more then one point as Ivara and im getting sick of the age old excuse "i'm not good at spy". you cant say your bad at spy then burden everyone with carrying you. i was bad at spy at one point and all i did was look at the guides then bam i was a pro at it. its getting to the point where i'm doing sortie spy missions solo or when i get in a room with 3 leeches i purposely trip the last point. usually if someone else at least took one point i don't trip since it wouldn't be fair to him. also please dont bring rhino or frost into a sortie spy because the second u tell me u don't have a stealth frame or your bad at spy ill usually reply with "oh so you qued knowing you weren't going to do anything"

Def- i don't see it nearly as much here but usually in def people will place themselves in rafters or on a certain corpus map theirs a low hanging platform below the point that people sit on. The most common case i see is when people go "afk" then when they go down they magically are back, jump around for a minute the go "afk" again. please stop don't this because after the 3rd time i'm not going to res you anymore. usually when people go afk a lot i ask them to leave so they can stop burdening the team. They don't respond well to that and usually tell me "stuff happens" to which i usually reply "if its so important you cant be online for 5 min then leave" course no one does that because they are leeching team affinity.

Cetus- i see many people sitting at the front gate during the whole bounty quest

Farming areas- massive leeching, unless u have an ember or other large CC frame that's stealing ur kills there's no reason you should be running behind the Nekros gobbling up polymer or argon and like i said before STOP BRINGING TRASH INTO HIGH LEVEL MISSIONS. There's a time to farm, a time to lvl, and a time to win and mot(void) isn't one of them.

Akkad/Hiercon- both these maps are very good for quickly power leveling but i'm getting mad when i see everyone on my team getting 300+ kills and theirs 1 person with 2 kill, ik its a bit trust based since everyone needs to be killing to share the team affinity evenly but there are people that heavily abuse that and bring limbo into one of these 2 isnt an excuse for you not to be fighting.

Limbo/loki - the 2 leechest frames i see, i see people going invisible or putting themselves in the rift then going afk in missions for leech team affinity. please stop these are both beautiful frames that get a bad name because of people misusing them

sorry the post is so long and i want everyone to know that yes the first part of the post called our MR, im not saying if your low or high your really better or worse but there is a certain amount of skill that is expected of you. 

happy hunting tenno

[Wolf_Walker]

People who are inactive for 2+ minutes, get reduced affinity, and won't get the reward on that rotation.

I agree the leeching is an issue, but sometimes people want to level their weapons asap, and bringing one weapon, not killing, because that's how you get 75% affinity shared to your weapon. When I plan to level a weapon quickly, i bring a buff, something to benefit the squad. I stopped going public because some people do the limbo/ivara thing and aren't helpful in any way. Just ask your clan mates to run with you, that's how I dodged the leeching issue. For spy, I go solo, always solo spy, because that's how you dodge leechers, and possible trolls. 

[INight00]

We need a kick option, or a force kick option when something doesn't occur.
Naturally said force kick would make the Berehynia xp farm obsolete.
Or camping obsolete... depending on what the action is.

Alternatively, a chat based vote system that allow players to kick a player. Only works if the vote is unanimous and only works in game.

Edited January 5, 2018 by INight00
Edit: That last one vote system thing... could be done for hosting when players want to change host.

[Kuestenjung]

I find it interesting that every time someone makes such thread, the person claims to see SO many leechers/afkers, while I only see 1 in a while, and it doesn´t matter what game/forum it is.

And there is already an afk timer ingame, and then you will get nothing. 

You can also actively work against it. You see a leecher just let the mission fail.

And btw, what has this to do in GD?

Edited January 5, 2018 by Kuestenjung

[Olianu]

My only problem with your argument when it comes to the spy problem are for the people that are fighting lag.  I have tried to help in a spy fault and lost the datum because it's 10 seconds slower then what it says I still had 15 seconds left.

[---DADDY---]

I come across leeches quite a lot. I mostly handle them by simply calling them out in chat, usually they leave or start moving, or hurl abuse at me and then tell me to calm down and do one or the other. Usually I screenshot just in case I come across them again so I can report consecutive leeching via support. Or if I'm in a bad mood and can't be bothered dealing with it I just leave.

When it comes to spies, with the exception of relic runs I ALWAYS solo them. So I never come across any leeches there.

The only thing that really gets to me out of everything you just described is the Cetus bounties where players will just sit in gate and wait for you to complete mission. I've noticed this quite a lot recently and weirdly it's always been high rank players. And it's obviously a habit for some players because quite often I've finished the mission, joined a fresh squad and low and behold, same player I just saw afk in gate is afk again. Only he's not afk, he's moving just enough so he gets rewards.

I'd like to see a "report leech" button or something in chat so we can flag leechers with ease at any opportunity, let's say, 10 or more consecutive reports in a short space of time (a week or so) in different mission instances and they get a warning. that warning applies for six months or so, so people don't get cocky and wait out leeching only to do it again after warning runs out. if they get reported numerous times within a short space of time again, then instaban for 24hrs or something on the first strike, 2nd strike, 3 days 3rd, a week, 4th, a month. 5th, scare them with a permaban but tell them they can get in touch with support to sort things out, so then they have to deal with the hassle of waiting for responses from support.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Yung-Azrael

[MirageKnight]

4 minutes ago, Kuestenjung said:

I find it interesting that every time someone makes such thread, the person claims to see SO many leechers/afkers, while I only see 1 in a while, and it doesn´t matter what game/forum it is.

As they say "Your mileage may vary". Some people just have different experiences.

 

5 minutes ago, Kuestenjung said:

And there is already an afk timer ingame, and then you will get nothing. 

Indeed. Now can we do something about Embers literally sitting on defensive objectives with WoF active and only moving to throw down a pizza or gobble up some orbs?

[---DADDY---]

8 minutes ago, Wolf_Walker said:

People who are inactive for 2+ minutes, get reduced affinity, and won't get the reward on that rotation.

I agree the leeching is an issue, but sometimes people want to level their weapons asap, and bringing one weapon, not killing, because that's how you get 75% affinity shared to your weapon. When I plan to level a weapon quickly, i bring a buff, something to benefit the squad. I stopped going public because some people do the limbo/ivara thing and aren't helpful in any way. Just ask your clan mates to run with you, that's how I dodged the leeching issue. For spy, I go solo, always solo spy, because that's how you dodge leechers, and possible trolls. 

You can easily bypass this by way of moving now and then ever so slightly. I watch some leeches quite closely to see how they operate and they tend to stand in the same spot but moving forwards and backwards ever so slightly now and then. So I'm thinking some of them may even have an anti-afk macro or something.

Also, I'm an avid minmaxer and it's pretty much my modus operandi to make sure I bring at least one viable piece of equipment that can get lots of kills whenever I'm minmaxing. I don't think anyone has any excuse to stand there and not contribute, I think the whole "I provide buffs" thing is a cop out, same way frosts think their job is done when they put up a globe or octavia with her buffs. I think if you're gonna join a minmax def like Akkad or Hydron you should contribute as much as possible to get through it as quickly as possible otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time including your own.

For example. I tend to take banshee to Hydron and just spam soundquake to kill everything, equipping only one weapon. Within 10 quick waves that weapon is maxed and I've done the most damage. Thing that annoys me is, everyone else just stands there and doesn't do a damn thing. Mission could be over in half the time it takes for me to solo kill everything if people ran around and contributed. I think people just take an opportunity to be lazy whenever they see it and the general consensus while playing now seems to be "if one guy can do the job there's no need for anyone else to contribute." And I see that on the rise tbh. Been here since Hidden Messages update and this has only really been an issue in the last year or so for me.

[R3b3ll10n90s]

A Wild Banshee appears. Wild Banshee use Map Cleaner. It's SUPER EFFECTIVE!!!

What should I do if that happened?
A. Meditate, leech the xp, and wait for extraction.
B. Dance, leech the xp, and wait for extraction.
C. Spam emote, leech the xp, and wait for extraction.
D. Parkour around the map, collect the loots, leech the xp, and wait for extraction.
E. Get salty live, leech the xp, and wait for extraction.

Edited January 5, 2018 by R3b3ll10n90s

[Guest]

Don't forget Kuva Siphon/Flood as well. I've seen a fair share of leechers that go AFK once the siphon in destroyed and don't bother with helping finish the rest of the mission (say, Kuva Flood Exterminate), because Kuva is given only when the siphon is destroyed and not as mission mode reward.

[---DADDY---]

22 minutes ago, Kuestenjung said:

I find it interesting that every time someone makes such thread, the person claims to see SO many leechers/afkers, while I only see 1 in a while, and it doesn´t matter what game/forum it is.

And there is already an afk timer ingame, and then you will get nothing. 

You can also actively work against it. You see a leecher just let the mission fail.

And btw, what has this to do in GD?

Well for all you know OP plays a lot more than you, as do others who see a lot more leeches. Also, who knows what your playstyle is, you could solo a lot more than others or play with clannies / friends more so than pugging it.

I've been here since Hidden Messages update and I can honestly say I've never really had any sort of problems with leeches for the most part, but within the last year or so their frequency seems to be increasing. Either by way of 100% legitimate leeching or where 3/4 of the squad figures one guy can handle the mission (like me with banshee in a def) so they don't bother doing anything at all. Could have something to do with the influx of new players since the last few big updates over the last year, I dunno.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Yung-Azrael

[Maqabir]

When someone leeches on endless missions I just talk to the rest of the group and have them all sweitch to Extract at the last second, leaving them alone and AFK for 5 more waves.

[TinySuperSalad]

As a player that mainly likes to do things on my own even on pub games. I have no problem with leechers. Infact, I like to help / carry new players a lot.

If you don't like leechers, don't play pub and just play with mates / clan.

There will always be "leeching" in any online multiplayer game.

I'm in a one man clan so I play pub all the time. I got over people not helping cause I was at one point, a noob, and or levelling an item.

On a spy mission or survival, I prefer to go solo.

I'm still a noob at MR 13 :(

Also, I like to play Ember and Banshee with that full map clean on Defense XD

Edited January 5, 2018 by NZ_CodeBlue

[---DADDY---]

Just now, NZ_CodeBlue said:

As a player that mainly likes to do things on my own even on pub games. I have no problem with leechers. Infact, I like to help / carry new players a lot.

If you don't like leechers, don't play pub and play with mates / clan.

There will always be "leeching" in any online multiplayer game.

I'm in a one man clan so I play pub all the time. I got over people not helping cause I was at one point, a noob, and or levelling an item.

On a spy mission or survival, I prefer to go solo.

I'm still a noob at MR 13 :(

"If you don't like people stealing from you, don't own anything worth stealing."

Same kinda logic. The problem isn't people playing public games, or even their attitude towards those who leech. It's leeches. I personally don't care most of the time for the same reasons you suggested but objectively speaking leeching is wrong and negatively impacts the experience of other players. It's also not very nice to know that somebody is intentionally benefiting from your time and energy while investing nothing themselves. I can imagine a lot of people to feel like they've been f**ked over when they come across such players. And I don't blame them because leeching is pretty much an inversion of what a co-op game is supposed to be about.

[RobWasHere]

I recently met a player that asked on chat during mission how to kill Ruk...in sortie 3...

[---DADDY---]

2 minutes ago, RobWasHere said:

I recently met a player that asked on chat during mission how to kill Ruk...in sortie 3...

Took me about five tries of yesterday's Lech Kril sortie 3 because every squad I joined decided to melee spam him and guess what, they all died.

A couple were MR25.

Strange behaviour.

[Hypernaut1]

Leach complainers always seem like whiners to me. i play the game for fun, a leecher rarely gets in the way of that. It's not like the game is too hard. If you don't want to do 2 spy vaults, then make a team in recruiting. 

[TinySuperSalad]

17 minutes ago, Yung-Azrael said:

"If you don't like people stealing from you, don't own anything worth stealing."

Same kinda logic. The problem isn't people playing public games, or even their attitude towards those who leech. It's leeches. I personally don't care most of the time for the same reasons you suggested but objectively speaking leeching is wrong and negatively impacts the experience of other players. It's also not very nice to know that somebody is intentionally benefiting from your time and energy while investing nothing themselves. I can imagine a lot of people to feel like they've been f**ked over when they come across such players. And I don't blame them because leeching is pretty much an inversion of what a co-op game is supposed to be about.

If someone get piss off with "leechers" and hold grudge or can't get over it, I don't think pub games, or even online gaming is for them :(

I think they should stick to solo play, or play with friends / clan.

Like I said, leeching exist in online gaming in one form or another. I started playing Warframe knowing that these type of players will  be on it >.<

 

Edit: as long as the leechers don't get in my way like in spy missions then they can go to extraction for all I care.

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by NZ_CodeBlue

[---DADDY---]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

Leach complainers always seem like whiners to me. i play the game for fun, a leecher rarely gets in the way of that. It's not like the game is too hard. If you don't want to do 2 spy vaults, then make a team in recruiting. 

Well, regardless of your opinion of the people who complain about this, this is an issue because it does happen and is quite common. So that's kinda besides the point.

[Einblinr]

what do you mean, I only bring the best team comps for sortie spies  

[polarity]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if a large number of those leeching are doing it in order to gear and level accounts, FOR SALE, because with all of the awards and exposure the game has been getting over the past year, there will be a growing market for well equipped accounts, and their value will have increased.

There's no end of people who'll try and make easy money out of playing video games, and selling accounts is as much a part of that as selling premium currency (Hell, I live right next door to a guy who is trying to make a living by selling XBOne COD accounts).  Warframe has the gold-seller side well covered, between a cap on daily trades, credit tax that means you can't buy/sell plat without also farming a lot of credits, and mandatory face-to-face trading instead of an AH that could easily be botted.

In WoW I saw no end of botting, in order to level accounts (a lot of it done in PvP, to the extent that in low level battlegrounds, at some times of the day, you could have more bots on the team than actual players), or to farm stuff to sell for gold, that could then be used to equip them.  Blizzard finally selling players almost completely leveled characters, and giving them a way to buy gold by trading game-time tokens, reduced the amount of that happening overnight.  The AH there is still a mess though, and you can practically guarantee that 5 minutes after you've posted an item, there will be at least one page of the same thing that have been relisted at a lower price, by several people's AH bots.

There's all the signs of botting in this game, the people who leave group as soon as they join it (because bots can't fully function, unless they are the host), people who were just standing right next to you, but suddenly teleport right to an objective (just like how resource gathering bots in WoW can jump around the map between resource nodes, through manipulating the part of game memory that stores character location), the people who are AFK, but don't get hit by the AFK timer, and keep on doing it game-after-game, because their bot is doing the bare minimum to keep that from happening (if you're too cheap to pay for good bot scripts/not smart enough to write your on, that's the kind of thing you'd do.  A well written/expensive script could probably play better than a lot of players.  At least that was the case when someone I knew in WoW admitted to using a bot in PvP).

Don't believe me on all this?  Just google 'warframe botting software', and then try it again adding 'afk farming'.

[---DADDY---]

Just now, NZ_CodeBlue said:

If someone get piss off with "leechers" and hold grudge or can't get over it, I don't think pub games, or even online gaming is for them :(

I think they should stick to solo play, or play with friends / clan.

Like I said, leeching exist in online gaming in one form or another. I started playing Warframe knowing that these type of players will  be on it >.<

 

Again, you could use the same logic to say "if you don't like being mugged then I don't think going outside or owning possessions is for you."

The problem isn't people who complain about leeches, the problem is leeches.

I mean I get what you're saying and I agree to a degree. But to make out the people who complain about leeching are the bigger issue is a logical fallacy. I mean for starters I'm pretty sure leeching is against the TOS, and it's not to mention pretty toxic because what you're doing is intentionally using someone else for your own benefit without their consent. Which in any regard is a pretty crappy thing to do and speaks volumes about the kind of person whoever is doing it is. And I think that's the main point. When people intentionally leech from others to the degree in which they're actually noticed. People react with vitriol because they feel cheated, like the person who's leeching has made a conscious decision to use them for their own benefit and not contribute at all. Anyone in their right mind would feel somewhat jaded about that.

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

 I don't think anyone has any excuse to stand there and not contribute, I think the whole "I provide buffs" thing is a cop out, same way frosts think their job is done when they put up a globe or octavia with her buffs

Frost's job is indeed done IF the globe is always here and he recasts it or kills melee units. I would much rather have that kind of frost than those I can see everywhere trying to frag out letting the globe to be destroyed.  If you're a frost you literally have one job. This job always comes first. You're almost always have at leats one dps in the team, usually 2-3. And if you're doing something vaguelly important like protecting objective, healing/giving energy or babysitting the sortie operative in any way (for example puttinng hin in the rift and reviving if needed) you don't "have" to do anything else as long as mobs are being killed. I don't see it as "leeching". A single player can kill everything if modded right and if you let him up till lv 150 quite easily and you will only see lv 100 in sortie, 150+ you will never encounter in a random group so there's no reason to yell at everyone "kill or else!". It's just an imitation of activity that your teammates barely need. Not everyone on the team have to kill in order to be useful.

Edited January 5, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Ragnarok160]

Just now, Yung-Azrael said:

Well, regardless of your opinion of the people who complain about this, this is an issue because it does happen and is quite common. So that's kinda besides the point.

i love you yung, your the only person on this post that gets it, i like how there are two kinda of people posting, the ones that say "yea, this is a problem" and the condescending "i have answers for everything"  but so far you've posted neutrality. this post i'snt about overhauling the system or bashing noobs. its acknowledging the problem and knowing yes it affects some people and some people handle it differently and at the very least saying "im not ok with this" rather then saying "oh well its always there so whats the point fixing it" and its not even a matter of fixing it. its a matter of improving the community and its outlook on the current state of the game.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

If you've completed The Second Dream quest read the spoiler info relevant to this below:

Spoiler

Operators make you leave your Warframe and can look like you aren't playing. With Cetus and Focus 2.0 bringing a lot of incentive to use them I've seen a lot of players not in the frame itself. I've actually seen several instances where someone was accused of standing around doing nothing because they didn't see that the player was in their operator shooting enemies on the other side of the room.

I'm not saying that is specifically the situation, or that the other suggestions are not issues. Just wanted to make you aware of other likely possibilities that have become more common in recent updates.