Mesa Deluxe Skin

[takeshiblue]

5 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

And last but not least: If you don't like the skin, don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you. I don't like the skin for Banshee or for Ember. That's totally fine.
 

As the cosumer of the frame I play the most definately feel like i need to give at least an opinion and something i'd like to buy ya know.

[takeshiblue]

1 minute ago, Xzorn said:

It looks fine to me but it doesn't make much sense.

They went from Western style cowgirl to Spanish Conquistador. Huh?

I was also hoping Peacemaker would get some chrome plated Trigun style revolvers not Flintlock pistols.

I'll be sticking with her Devil Ranger tennogen.

He gets it.

[MagPrime]

It's...meh for me.  Nothing about it screams deluxe, I'm not inspired by it, so I won't be buying it.  

DE will have to get my money for Mesa skins via TennoGen. 

[StabbyTentacles]

2 hours ago, Rekkou said:

And that's how opinion works, of course people sharing your opinion will looks reasonable for you. And other people's with opposite opinion won't look reasonable to you because you don't share their point of view. But you can't just dismiss them.

While I agree with the sentiment.

This skin is pedestrian. Compared to...

 

and 

To me, De have simply made another Mesa skin, at best. Nothing about it is delux. At worst, (and in my opinion,) its inferior to her vanilla skin.

Spanish Conquistador could be good, great even; if done right, pushing conventional Warframe boundaries. At the moment the current design is bland.

Some may like it. 

Uninspiring, lackluster, ho-hum.

I guess you could always show them how its done?

[VexExodus]

Well i like it and im not a mesa user on the daily, might use her more often with that deluxe, its a matter of tastes, plus dont forget its an unfinished thing.

[Rekkou]

3 hours ago, StabbyTentacles said:

 

All i know is that, either way you'll never please everyone and no matter how much you think you know, the outcome can always be the opposite of what you expect. You do X, people complain why it's not Y. You pick Y people complain why it's not X. You do XY and people complain that you're being indecisive.

Even if they redo the skins, no guarantee you'll like it better. It might even looks worse for you. You are basically expecting something to fit your preference even though it was made without any intention to specifically fit to your preference

The chances of any warframe or any skins to fit anyone's preferences are slim. Redoing it never means the next one will fit your preferences, it only means the dice will be rerolled.

[takeshiblue]

1 hour ago, Rekkou said:

All i know is that, either way you'll never please everyone and no matter how much you think you know, the outcome can always be the opposite of what you expect. You do X, people complain why it's not Y. You pick Y people complain why it's not X. You do XY and people complain that you're being indecisive.

Even if they redo the skins, no guarantee you'll like it better. It might even looks worse for you. You are basically expecting something to fit your preference even though it was made without any intention to specifically fit to your preference

The chances of any warframe or any skins to fit anyone's preferences are slim. Redoing it never means the next one will fit your preferences, it only means the dice will be rerolled.

Wise words and I do know I will have to deal with it either way. I respect your opinion above all since you actually make great skins and i have bought 80% of your gallery of tenno gen skins and have also voted on your new excal skin great work as always. I have released my opinion to the internet so I am satisfied with that at least.

[FashionFrame]

1 hour ago, Rekkou said:

All i know is that, either way you'll never please everyone and no matter how much you think you know, the outcome can always be the opposite of what you expect. You do X, people complain why it's not Y. You pick Y people complain why it's not X. You do XY and people complain that you're being indecisive.

Even if they redo the skins, no guarantee you'll like it better. It might even looks worse for you. You are basically expecting something to fit your preference even though it was made without any intention to specifically fit to your preference

The chances of any warframe or any skins to fit anyone's preferences are slim. Redoing it never means the next one will fit your preferences, it only means the dice will be rerolled.

This guy deserves a medal

[Tricky5hift]

It's really not that bad...

Lol Tennogen has spoiled the Fashion Frame community.

[-Temp0-]

В 17.01.2018 в 02:13, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 сказал:

BullS#&$, I run Soprana skin with the Banshee Prime helmet. Her prime skin is ok, but there are parts that look odd in some cases, such as broad shoulders, lack of definition for the knees, and boat shoes.

Yes just because one random nobody prefers soprana skin it somehow defeats the statistics which tells that most run prime one over standard or deluxe. Just because you do something doesn't mean ****.

Цитата

All i know is that, either way you'll never please everyone and no matter how much you think you know, the outcome can always be the opposite of what you expect. You do X, people complain why it's not Y. You pick Y people complain why it's not X. You do XY and people complain that you're being indecisive

The only little problem with this statement is the fact that more and more people do not like deluxe skins that being release - Nova, Ember, Volt and now Mesa are all the newest deluxe skins that you will almost never see people using. And yes there's a clear problem when so many players do not like your design. You create skins for them after all. 

Цитата

Even if they redo the skins, no guarantee you'll like it better.

No one will cry if those pants will go or the helmet.

Edited January 21, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Cubewano]

2 hours ago, Rekkou said:

All i know is that, either way you'll never please everyone and no matter how much you think you know, the outcome can always be the opposite of what you expect. You do X, people complain why it's not Y. You pick Y people complain why it's not X. You do XY and people complain that you're being indecisive.

Even if they redo the skins, no guarantee you'll like it better. It might even looks worse for you. You are basically expecting something to fit your preference even though it was made without any intention to specifically fit to your preference

The chances of any warframe or any skins to fit anyone's preferences are slim. Redoing it never means the next one will fit your preferences, it only means the dice will be rerolled.

The problem is the trend in disapproval for the skins, more and more people are taking issues with their design direction. Yes you can't appeal to everyone, but you should be trying to appeal to largest portion you can, and they are moving further and further from that direction it seems. People used to be generally excited for these kinds of things, now we're lucky if a design doesn't spark an out right march against it. 

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

See we're saying "more and more" a lot but that's really based off of nothing. This is a forum and when people are upset they talk. But when people are content they very rarely make an entire thread about it. I've seen many an ember deluxe floating alongside the ember magesties if anything oddly i'm seeing less ember prime looks. (Cause everyone needs to float now i guess- just a sneaky community nitpick) and volt deluxe's when i happen on a volt same with mag, banshee etc etc. And this skin is likely as mass approved by the masses as the last so i thing this growing problem is made up frankly.

Either way i still can't wait to get my hands on it.

[Rekkou]

1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

The problem is the trend in disapproval for the skins, more and more people are taking issues with their design direction. Yes you can't appeal to everyone, but you should be trying to appeal to largest portion you can, and they are moving further and further from that direction it seems. People used to be generally excited for these kinds of things, now we're lucky if a design doesn't spark an out right march against it. 

And why the majority should be the one that always gets what they want? If any then this shift is the right direction because the majority have been pleased with previous skins and the shift means more minority will be catered.

[Cubewano]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

See we're saying "more and more" a lot but that's really based off of nothing. This is a forum and when people are upset they talk. But when people are content they very rarely make an entire thread about it. I've seen many an ember deluxe floating alongside the ember magesties if anything oddly i'm seeing less ember prime looks. (Cause everyone needs to float now i guess- just a sneaky community nitpick) and volt deluxe's when i happen on a volt same with mag, banshee etc etc. And this skin is likely as mass approved by the masses as the last so i thing this growing problem is made up frankly.

Either way i still can't wait to get my hands on it.

it's based off changing in consumer response, yes people are more vocal when they don't approve of something, and people have been getting more vocal, that can really only indicate more people are not approving of the products they are getting. if ten people normally take issue with any product release, then suddenly that triples for the next several products, that is indicative of more people disliking the product, and a trend of it for that matter. these aren't the first deluxes to ever be released, we have decently sized list of deluxes to reference responses to, and the responses were far more supportive/optimistic in the past. 

6 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

And why the majority should be the one that always gets what they want? If any then this shift is the right direction because the majority have been pleased with previous skins and the shift means more minority will be catered.

because they are the majority, that shouldn't even be a question. doing good for the most you can > making a handful feel special

maybe if we had multiple deluxes for each frame you'd be able to argue broadening style choices, but we don't, deluxe options are very narrow and a frame is lucky just to have 1. 

[Rekkou]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

because they are the majority, that shouldn't even be a question. doing good for the most you can > making a handful feel special

maybe if we had multiple deluxes for each frame you'd be able to argue broadening style choices, but we don't, deluxe options are very narrow and a frame is lucky just to have 1. 

Now that's just selfish. Giving to the most in need > Giving to who already have enough.

[takeshiblue]

1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

it's based off changing in consumer response, yes people are more vocal when they don't approve of something, and people have been getting more vocal, that can really only indicate more people are not approving of the products they are getting. if ten people normally take issue with any product release, then suddenly that triples for the next several products, that is indicative of more people disliking the product, and a trend of it for that matter. these aren't the first deluxes to ever be released, we have decently sized list of deluxes to reference responses to, and the responses were far more supportive/optimistic in the past. 

because they are the majority, that shouldn't even be a question. doing good for the most you can > making a handful feel special

maybe if we had multiple deluxes for each frame you'd be able to argue broadening style choices, but we don't, deluxe options are very narrow and a frame is lucky just to have 1. 

I think you get what i meant more than anyone we do as it seems for now only one deluxe skin and if people are complaining about it means they do care enough to its not just people being picky. Its cause I would rather buy something I really like. This is not something I find likable. The feedback is good so the Devs know how the players feel about what they are buying.

[Cubewano]

23 minutes ago, takeshiblue said:

I think you get what i meant more than anyone we do as it seems for now only one deluxe skin and if people are complaining about it means they do care enough to its not just people being picky. Its cause I would rather buy something I really like. This is not something I find likable. The feedback is good so the Devs know how the players feel about what they are buying.

They know but sadly don't care enough to act, as shown by the last two deluxes. Not sure if this is DE being stubborn or prideful, but it's disappointing to say the least. 

[-Temp0-]

15 часов назад, Rekkou сказал:

And why the majority should be the one that always gets what they want? If any then this shift is the right direction because the majority have been pleased with previous skins and the shift means more minority will be catered.

Ya sure this is what they teach you in design school? 

If majority in this case, players, don't like your design it effectively means you *failed*. Since a skin isn't your art piece you would use in some instalation or anything, it's a product for people to buy. This also applies to primed cosmetics. Most of them are so bad that I wouldn't even consider buying them for plat, not even real money and 50$ with it. I can probably only name 3 prime cosmetics that worth something out of how many prime accesses released? Yeaaah clearly it's not an issue, it's a plan theyr'e being so bad.

Also, it's not like they actually ask players what they want or anything, so in reality they cater to no one, they create whatever the heck the heck they want (and most likely, can rather than want) and going by your logic, they can not try at all - why? Because someone will buy it anyway no matter the quality. It sales poorely? We can say we "catered" to minority, it sells well - we can say we "catered" to majority. Very convenient.

Edited January 22, 2018 by -Temp0-

[TsukuyomiNoGeki]

13 часов назад, Xzorn сказал:

It looks fine to me but it doesn't make much sense.

They went from Western style cowgirl to Spanish Conquistador. Huh?

I was also hoping Peacemaker would get some chrome plated Trigun style revolvers not Flintlock pistols.

I'll be sticking with her Devil Ranger tennogen.

Because deluxe skins are ment to create an alternate universe for the frame and drastically change their appearance.

Not every skin should be like ember's vermilion wich is a straight up upgrade of her base model (indeed she would look like this if she would ne released in 2017) and wich i refuse to assign a "deluxe" mark.

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, Rekkou said:

Now that's just selfish. Giving to the most in need > Giving to who already have enough.

Nobody is in need, these are cosmetics in a video game, entirely extra and material. This game also isn't a charity, unless you plan to pay more to make up for the loss in sales you are being selfish to ask them to take a blow to their profits for the sake of making you feel good. 

[Rekkou]

6 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Nobody is in need, these are cosmetics in a video game, entirely extra and material. This game also isn't a charity, unless you plan to pay more to make up for the loss in sales you are being selfish to ask them to take a blow to their profits for the sake of making you feel good. 

That is a very bad argument, if i say that this game can sell more if it was FPS in WW or FPS pvp hero shooter. Then i guess we all have to compensate the money DE might've lose for making this game a sci-fi third person shooter? DE is not naive, they already know their demographics and the expected profits margins. They made their decision after knowing those factors and not because they are just making whatever they want and expecting the profits to sky rockets.

 

11 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Ya sure this is what they teached you in design school? 

If majority in this case, players, don't like your design it effectively means you *failed*. Since a skin isn't your art piece you would use in some instalation or anything, it's a product for people to buy. This also applies to primed cosmetics. Most of them are so bad that I wouldn't even consider buying them for plat, not even real money and 50$ with it. I can probably only name 3 prime cosmetics that worth something out of how many prime accesses released? Yeaaah clearly it's not an issue, it's a plan theyr'e being so bad.

Also, it's not like they actually ask players what they want or anything, so in reality they cater to no one, they create whatever the heck the heck they want (and most likely, can rather than want) and going by your logic, they can not try at all - why? Because someone will buy it anyway no matter the quality. It sales poorely? We can say we "catered" to minority, it sells well - we can say we "catered" to majority. Very convenient.

Design teaches you to make something suitable for its purpose. You only fail at being popular if you actually aim at being popular. And art crafts can also be sold along with various vanity items. Whether it sells or not, that's not your problem. Your problem is that they don't sell what you want. But you're projecting that problem as DE's problem, but if they still keep selling the items you don't want then evidently it's not a problem for them.

If you make something based on your own idea and vision that means you're automatically catering to people with the same interest. You can even ended up opening people to new interests. And the last statement is technically true because you only know to which demographics your products really caters to after you sold them. If it sells few then it caters to minority, if it sells many then it caters to majority.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

7 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

Yes just because one random nobody prefers soprana skin it somehow defeats the statistics which tells that most run prime one over standard or deluxe. Just because you do something doesn't mean ****.

Yes, clearly you are a well-established individual in the Warframe community that everyone knows, that has a statistical fact sheet on your person and in the Warframe’s database with your signed handle, that clearly dictates percentage-to-percentage the player usage of the Banshee Soprana deluxe skin and can make a distinction that no one uses it.

... Get off your damn high horse.

[NightmareT12]

The reason Warframe stands above all in terms of Art design is because they follow their own principles and don't just run towards what the feedback says blindly as some of you suggest.

Even now, I keep thinking that the Chroma change they did back in 2015 was a terrible mistake (specially after being proven they just swapped the alt with the default) and that the Gara one they did last year was, too (even if I myself like the current default one better). They need to stick to what their vision of what Warframe is, not anyone else. Hell, that's exactly why they have been self publishing the game.

The Mesa Deluxe skin is perfectly fine. It follows the "completely different vision" line we have been given in all Deluxe skins ever since the first ones with Orchid Saryn by Sean and Rhino Palatine by IgnusDei. However I feel DE's mistake was relying too much on IgnusDei's designs, because it's pretty apparent a large portion of the playerbase now seem to link Ignus' own style with Deluxe and whatever isn't seems to miss the mark.

In retrospective I feel they probably should have spaced them out quite more between artists so the change wasn't as brutal.

 

2 hours ago, TsukuyomiNoGeki said:

Because deluxe skins are ment to create an alternate universe for the frame and drastically change their appearance.

Not every skin should be like ember's vermilion wich is a straight up upgrade of her base model (indeed she would look like this if she would ne released in 2017) and wich i refuse to assign a "deluxe" mark.

If you take merely 10 minutes of your time to study all the work Mynki and Keith have done detail wise in what is the "default" Warframe line and their Primes you would notice that what you wrote here couldn't be more mistaken.

Edited January 22, 2018 by NightmareT12

[ChaotikDreamz]

Sure others love it and like it. Imho i personally dislike it. Its makes no sense to turn Mesa into a Spanish Conquistador. Her basic lore carries her a a wild west gunslinger. But hey what do i know. My opion for her deluxe skin shoulda been a nice cowboy hat and a old looking Duster maybe even give her aka Regulator pistol a more colt peace maker look hell maybe even some holsters.. But ya no she getting muskets.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

11 minutes ago, ChaotikDreamz said:

opion for her deluxe skin shoulda been a nice cowboy hat and a old looking Duster maybe even give her aka Regulator pistol a more colt peace maker look hell maybe even some holsters.

This will more than likely be her Prime. 

I think her Prime will be vary extraordinary, vary detailed. Like Trinity Prime was. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82