PC Players: Controller or M/KB?

[Legion-Shields]

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Edited January 16, 2018 by Legion-Shields

[Sloan441]

8 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Do k&m users feel like they have an advantage over controller users in game? 

 

I know I do. 

It's not a small advantage, either. This game is primarily a shooter. Controllers--even very good ones--lack the precision necessary to make the quick accurate shots that are often critical in a shooter. 

There are ways around that issue--AoE weapons and warframes that specialize in AoE type attacks--but when it comes down to putting projectiles of whatever form on an often moving target, KB&M rules the roost with a density enhanced iron fist. 

The main upside to controllers is the ability to blend an analogue movement paradigm with digital features. This comes to the fore when movement is important. There is an element of that in Warframe and it can be exploited if you minimize the impact of the sub-par aiming issues endemic to controllers. 

I use both, but I use them for different reasons and in different games. Fallout 4 or Skyrim respond better to controllers (largely because of crap UIs) because there isn't very much twitch combat and a whole lot of navigating menus. Warframe has a very high degree of twitch combat and the KB&M is simply better at enabling you to excel at it. There are a lot of nested menus (consolitis) that are easier to deal with on a controller, but hotkeys can largely mitigate that particular 'feature'. 

[AoiiToori]

*dodges*

 

Whoa, lots of e-peenor swinging goin around in this thread.

[Kalec]

M/kb is just superior in any type of shooters, that is something that won't change

[DatDarkOne]

30 minutes ago, AoiiToori said:

*dodges*

 

Whoa, lots of e-peenor swinging goin around in this thread.

IKR!  

[(PSN)Crixus044]

5 hours ago, WindigoTP said:

@(PS4)Crixus044@DatDarkOne

Dah-dap for pretty much proving yourself that Artemis works wonders on dat Accuracy.

As for how things work on a regular bow, I've wasted away my evening and did some testing.

And I have my favorite finger to show you.

  Hide contents

 

So here ya go 

 

So, technically, it is possible to get extremely high accuracy with a regular bow. But is is darn hard, and requires a ton of cooperation from spread. It basically has to be horizontal for things to work this way. Thing is, spread is random and unreliable.

So multiple things to talk about what's wrong with this video. About your multishot thing. What you don't understand that with your multishot test, you only got ONE hit because you killed the guy in one hit. You shot 4 arrows, but it took only 1 to kill so only 1 hit, hence 100% accuracy. If you would've taken it to an enemy of actual resistance, like a boss or an enemy of decent level, you'd see this. About the punch through, this is something else you got wrong because of your enemy level you chose to test with messed you up. None of you punch through hits worked. What actually killed the second enemy was the ragdoll. How I know this? check the damage numbers from 2:40. One hits for 8294 and the other hits for 2955. This is obviously caused from ragdoll impact damage. It's not caused by headshots, crit, or damage fall off.

Edited January 16, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[phoenix1992]

@WindigoTP this is all fine and dandy (albeit it really incorrect on multiple levels), but you miss a small logical point.

Let's refresh the "proof of skill"




So....

If you have 415 kills and 227 of them are melee, you have less than 200 "other skills"

A wild assumption that the Rakta Cernos Proc, Hunter munitions and so on may or may have lowered the count more. But we won't bother with that calculation, we will bother with...
If you have 200 kills, and 45 of them are headshots - how many of them are from Artemis Bow, when Artemis bow actually making the headshot job harder (since it kills enemies in other ways)? Wasn't the point about actual accuracy and not the in game stat?

[Kuestenjung]

Great jop OP for creating a flamewar thread

m/kb vs contrroller into PC vs consoles.

 

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Sloan441 said:

I know I do. 

It's not a small advantage, either. This game is primarily a shooter. Controllers--even very good ones--lack the precision necessary to make the quick accurate shots that are often critical in a shooter. 

There are ways around that issue--AoE weapons and warframes that specialize in AoE type attacks--but when it comes down to putting projectiles of whatever form on an often moving target, KB&M rules the roost with a density enhanced iron fist. 

The main upside to controllers is the ability to blend an analogue movement paradigm with digital features. This comes to the fore when movement is important. There is an element of that in Warframe and it can be exploited if you minimize the impact of the sub-par aiming issues endemic to controllers. 

I use both, but I use them for different reasons and in different games. Fallout 4 or Skyrim respond better to controllers (largely because of crap UIs) because there isn't very much twitch combat and a whole lot of navigating menus. Warframe has a very high degree of twitch combat and the KB&M is simply better at enabling you to excel at it. There are a lot of nested menus (consolitis) that are easier to deal with on a controller, but hotkeys can largely mitigate that particular 'feature'. 

Lol.... Really? Look, it's great and all you can shoot the nose off of a grineer from 100 meters away, but it's pointless in WF. What quick scan high precision aiming do you need to do in Warframe? None really. It's a horde shooter. 

Any perceived advantage you think you may have is negated by armor scaling, Warframe abilities and aoe weapons. Maybe you're awesome at hitting that nully bubble drone...i don't know.

I still prefer the immersion of a controller for a relaxed game like this. I don't need pin point aiming and sic 360 no scopes. I understand the value of it in shooters, but games like this and borderlands don't need it. I save my k&m for sims.

You have a small advantage in a game like this. It's really just down to preference.

[AoiiToori]

According to this thread, apparently Warframe only lets players play with guns, therefore only K/B matters !!!! 

Spoiler

/s

 

 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 hour ago, AoiiToori said:

According to this thread, apparently Warframe only lets players play with guns, therefore only K/B matters !!!! 

  Reveal hidden contents

/s

 

 

lmao. You have a point, when it comes to melee, which is actually the most powerful type of warframe around, it doesn't really matter. Same thing with caster style play. controls only get fussywhen aiming with guns, which as we've shown here is a very slight margin of no value

Edited January 16, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[TheBrightKing]

M+K, why?

Writing in chat is not a pain in the &#!

You can actually aim easily

Warframe powers are easier to use with each one binded to a single key.

[zehne]

The whole M/KB and controller argument again...

 

There are pro's and con's to each.  Mainly it comes down to this:

Controller Pro's:

• Mostly Ergonomic, They have evolved specifically to accommodate gamers hands
• (Usually) have 2 analog input devices (joysticks/thumb-sticks)
  • This allows finer control over two input controls simultaneously(Over buttons, which are digital/binary).

Controller Con's:

• Limited button layouts/control schemes (usually limited by games/developers, sometimes this is false though)
• Joysticks/thumb-sticks need to trade accuracy vs speed due to the nature of how they work

 

M/KB Pro's:

• Mice have both accuracy and Speed
• Custom keybindings (generally speaking, sometimes false depending on game/developer)
• More buttons

M/KB Con's:

• Less Ergonomic than controllers, while there are different keyboard schemes most are made in the age old layout that is less than best suited for hands
• Only a single analog input device(mouse)

 

However, there is something to be said in that there are always options to change things up.  For example instead of mouse + keyboard, you could do Mouse + Gamepad

In which case you get rid of the Con of only having one analog input device, and now have two.  Plus the gamepad depending on style/manufacturer closes the gap between the ergonomics.

In which instance you'd basically get rid of a Pro for controllers while eliminating all the Con's from Mouse + Gamepad(which functions as keyboard).  The problem is that the argument is Controller Vs. Mouse and Keyboard, so the question is how muddied are we allowed to make the argument?

[GhostUrsa]

Controller myself, as I find it more comfortable with my hands. I spend too long every day using a keyboard and mouse for work, so the controller keeps things easy. I just wish it was easier to use a controller with motion controls, as I find the controls used in console shooters like Splatoon minimize the gap found between the mouse and the analog stick by a metric ton but most controller companies don't make such things native for PC use. :-(

[Hypernaut1]

Just now, GhostUrsa said:

Controller myself, as I find it more comfortable with my hands. I spend too long every day using a keyboard and mouse for work, so the controller keeps things easy. I just wish it was easier to use a controller with motion controls, as I find the controls used in console shooters like Splatoon minimize the gap found between the mouse and the analog stick by a metric ton but most controller companies don't make such things native for PC use. :-(

Steam controller? It's actually surprisingly decent. It has motion controls for precision aiming. 

I still prefer my Xbone controller though, so my steam controller is collecting dust. It has a steep learning curve, but it's a good bridge between mouse controls and gamepad.

[PurplePoloPlayer]

I use a Razer Nostromo gamepad and Razer Naga. They just designed new models too so I'm sure I'll pick those up. 

[WindigoTG]

4 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

If you have 200 kills, and 45 of them are headshots - how many of them are from Artemis Bow, when Artemis bow actually making the headshot job harder (since it kills enemies in other ways)?

Spoiler: melee weapon can do headshots!

So they didn't even need to shoot at all to have headshots.

Shocking, I know!

4 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

Wasn't the point about actual accuracy and not the in game stat?

Yes, the point is about actual accuracy. Which they are basically trying to prove with melee, for some reason.

 

Just to recap: they've started to arguing that controller isn't different from a mouse by saying that a bow is their most used weapon. Which is irrelevant as Hek.

Then they proceeded with refering to some screenshots that show stats that are not or may be not relevant to precision shooting at all. Which is also irrelevant to the point they're trying to prove to begin with.

Edited January 17, 2018 by WindigoTP

[(PSN)thowed]

Hey Mercedes owners, BMW or Mercedes?  That's basically what was asked here lol.  PC players make up the majority of this board, what'd you think the outcome would be?

[PrivateRiem]

Both.

Half keyboard, half mouse, half joystick.

On 1/1/2018 at 2:04 PM, PrivateRiem said:

Shameless plug-in: I've finally gotten around uploading my Steam controller config online, here's the readme https://pastebin.com/bPUTYdcp

Also includes setup ID and preview picture.

I have no idea how people can play the game on Consoles with DE's controller setup. Hell, even the default Steam controller setup made by DE is so horribly awful, I honestly can't fathom it.

Edited January 17, 2018 by PrivateRiem

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I use keyboard and mouse for shooters and strategy games.

Then, for action games and fighting games I use controllers.

For Warframe, I deem it more to be a shooter so I go with keyboard and mouse.

[Shad0wWatcher]

M/KB for menu navigation, controller for gameplay.

[DatDarkOne]

38 minutes ago, WindigoTP said:

Spoiler: melee weapon can do headshots!

So they didn't even need to shoot at all to have headshots.

Shocking, I know!

Yes, the point is about actual accuracy. Which they are basically trying to prove with melee, for some reason.

Melee headshots do not show on the end mission screen stats.  Of those 445 kills just over 200 where aimed shot kills with 45 of those being headshots.  How you continue to look over that is an amazing feat in reading skills.  

Since you want your nice little accuracy stat.  Here it is.  See the nice 93% accuracy on the Daikyu.  See the high usage percentage on the Rakta Cernos.  Which happens to have a 63% accuracy because also shoot containers with it that brings down the accuracy stat. 

You keep missing the point of those screenshots.  It's to show that a player using a controller isn't gimped in comparison to KB/mouse player in THIS co-op game.  Why you decided to harp on one specific thing like it would magically offer you redemption of some sort is the better question.  

Just for more reference, here's my playtime.

Any other non-relevant credentials you need for me to present to show that I actually have done what I said I've done?  As if the first dang set of pictures weren't enough.     

[Gamma745]

Disregarding the flame war happening, I personally prefer keyboard & mouse. I'm just used to it, that's all. Started out in Warframe with K/B & M, and most likely won't change anytime soon. Also, my controller currently is kinda junk, so I won't get a good Warframe experience with it anyway.

[QueenKharn]

To me, 3rd Person = Controller. I use controllers alot these days. It just feels more ergonomically comfortable, and I've got a set up now which does most of that I need.

[(PSN)rooster33]

It's  all personal preference,  but mine is controller with these type of games.  Sure a mouse will destroy you in aiming,  but it really is a pain to long term game with m&k.