Endgame

[Soul-scar]

Here is the thing, levelled up untold number of weapons, got every warframe obtainable, got decent rivens for 45 weapons....

Sadly after reaching this point there is no content that requires any of this. What is the point of power creep if there is nothing to creep towards? The object of the game is essentially obtain, level, chuck away, forma..... Strange how this repetitive grind cycle has literally no endpoint.

1) Endless survival......Why?

2) Endless defence.....Why?

3) Endless interception.....Why?

4) Sorties, cheezable with a zero forma start frame.

5) LoR, absolute torture.

6) Bounties......Why?

There is no risk reward for pushing frames. No reason to obtain a powerful riven other than to have it. I get to this point in WF every time after 4-6 weeks of play before playing something else for a year and coming back.

There needs to be something to do or grind towards. No way I am I investing years into focus. I have to kill teraylists for the shards and got bored after soloing 6 to avoid the cheese.

Add something to do. Sorties are 20 minutes of tedium with RNG^3 chance of getting something. Set mods, or set bonuses are useless so why grind them? You cant customise warframes (in a complex and creative way) it is all meta. Not saying warframe isn't fun but it has no longevity, complexity or challenge. 

[--F--NerevarCM]

And where's your idea of endgame then?

What will prevent players from cheese this "endgame"?

What will prevent these players of getting bored after play this "endgame" for the tenth time like they did with Eidolons, Sorties or Raids?

 

What you did in this thread a bunch of people already did. Complain about the lack of endgame but don't know how to fix this problem or even what type of endgame will be.

Its easy to say: "There needs to be something to do or grind towards" but don't give any clue or idea about what you want to do or grind

"Add something" What? What you want them to add? Another useless type of mission with bigger numbers? Another super weapon to increase powercreep?

 

Everyone can say that this game needs an endgame. However no one here can't even answer what is endgame or what they want.

[Maka.Bones]

They're about to add the Megalyst, and Rainalyst btw.... LoR was supposed to be part of that endgame.. but people think it's painful/torture.... but lets say there's an epic endgame story/boss raid that satisfies your desire... and lets say you killed it... "then what?" you beat the game... why? what for? what did it give you? The point of a game, is that the "gameplay"  is "fun"... the things you asked "why" that's the thing that's "fun" lol... but I agree that it is sadly repeating, and it gets dull fast. 

 people want something difficult/challenging, but  complain about it when it's added (like you did with Lor). If not, people complain if they're given something too easy.  That's contradicting, dude... LoR is endgame, and not cheesable, but you're complaining about it. 

Though, I do agree that there needs to be something more *fun* not necessarily overly complicated, or high level. Because the issue with higher lvls, is that you either 1) get oneshot, or 2)barely scratch something to kill it. (unless you use melee finishers, or banshee, or chroma+opticor... AKA the Meta.)

The MAIN issue is that people are so used to speed runs, that they hate doing anything that's difficult/time consuming... and they complain about it.... but here's my idea:

 

Add an intermediately difficult (slightly less damaging than the teralist, less complicated/annoying than LoR) multi-phased world bosses, with billions of health, so people of all skillsets/mods can whack it as much as their heart desires? It would also be a fresh change of pace!

Different  world bosses for different planets, and/or factions:

-Add mechanics & phases to it, to make it interesting, that require some *mild* amount of teamwork, or vehicles/objects. 

-Have different phases/ or body parts for different specialized people to do, (archwing/melee/ranged/sniper/operator)

     >so like the archwing maybe has to fly to get a clean shot at a body part, or to destroy the nullifier bubble.. 

     > melee folks can climb on it and smash it or something... or slash at its legs, so it's slowed down and gimped, and does less damage or something... of kill the adds spawning to back it up. 

     > ranged people can break key body parts... like its horns/antennae/arms/ballistic missile launchers (some of those ranged folks can use the archwing as well, and allow the arching abilities to be of use in the fight)

 

Sounds like another 4-person team based game that I used to play, and absolutely love.... it's something about hunting monsters? can't think of the name...

 

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones
It read like crap.

[LuckyCharm]

The problem with "end game" is that no matter how strong the enemies with our damage and abilities we can cheese through pretty much all content. So really "end game" they need to move away from the player vs enemy scenario and make a player vs themselves mode. Where you're given difficult challenges to complete and what holds you back from doing them is your individual skill rather than anything else. 

For example:

Challenge: Kill 5 enemies with a single sniper bullet. 

or even 

Challenge: Enemies in this mission take no damage except from headshots. Complete the exterminate.

 

Something to keep players active and improving their skills. Maybe even add the "add modifier" option to mission select to increase rewards/resources/exp or something if these modifiers were selected

[TioMegaManX]

I wouldn't know either, if anything I find the need for players to get bigger bullet sponges to be encouraging on lazy game design (not calling anyone lazy developer, just saying bigger numbers are just not fun to fight, they are just that, bigger numbers, cheating AI if you will), yes, is hard to get an idea of what would be a good end game in general, the only thing I could think of is to expand on the free roam content in the future with decent high level stuff (like 150 AT MOST) and reward players with better components among other things, but then again, people will just say DE is on the verge of declaring bankruptcy for the billionth time and how that would hurt their platinum and market sales in general.

The part of all content I was able to catch up for the most part after 2-3 years of absence was the quests, sans a few parts like time walls for Limbo or Mirage, sometimes I just login, check stuff in the foundry, etc., I am not into PvP, I only do sorties to see if I get something to sell to other players but even then the trade chat is overly saturated with people trying to get rivens for specific weapons and all, I don't find Sorties particularly interesting because everything 1-shots you unless you are a "meta-frame" with a very specific build, people know it and  usually don't try to kill anything unless it is necessary, maybe DE really wants the game to be more engaging, but everything seems to get the opposite effect, Speed Nova on DEF because it takes too long otherwise, early extractions because rotations are badly rigged (ie, Nidus) or just not worth it (Hydron after Wave 15), I have heard some power leveling areas were different and got "nerfed" because DE didn't want people to power level, but it only makes people less willing to use forma on their stuff, less potatoed items, etc., players are basically punished for trying to keep a huge collection on their accounts, bigger collections would mean more creative ways to tackle "end game" content, but then again, what would be a good end game alternative if it doesn't involve at least a bigger reward than a full 1 Tellurium/Neurode/Gallium/Orokin Cell or the like?

[TioMegaManX]

34 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

The problem with "end game" is that no matter how strong the enemies with our damage and abilities we can cheese through pretty much all content. So really "end game" they need to move away from the player vs enemy scenario and make a player vs themselves mode. Where you're given difficult challenges to complete and what holds you back from doing them is your individual skill rather than anything else. 

For example:

Challenge: Kill 5 enemies with a single sniper bullet. 

or even 

Challenge: Enemies in this mission take no damage except from headshots. Complete the exterminate.

 

Something to keep players active and improving their skills. Maybe even add the "add modifier" option to mission select to increase rewards/resources/exp or something if these modifiers were selected

As horrible as they can be sometimes the Spy puzzles are kind of a breath of fresh air for me, sometimes I just wish stealth was a little more refined since enemies will always know where you are once an alarm has been set and even after you reset that sometimes, if anything spy is more entertaining on Solo mode because no random player will get there and either blow your cover and rush through or keep pestering you if you commit a mistake.

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, LuckyCharm said:

Challenge: Kill 5 enemies with a single sniper bullet. 

or even 

Challenge: Enemies in this mission take no damage except from headshots. Complete the exterminate.

Your suggestion gave me a raging boner. Nightmare missions already exist btw, but I agree that adding these challenges, for increased drops/rewards, would make it very exciting

[LuckyCharm]

8 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Your suggestion gave me a raging boner. Nightmare missions already exist btw, but I agree that adding these challenges, for increased drops/rewards, would make it very exciting

Building onto it, you could even make it that completing the mission gave you a buff so your next mission gets the benefits, that way you can say. .use your increased drop rate buff to farm tellerium or argon crystals or something. It'd at least be a reward for having completed a hard challenge being able to farm something you need. 

[(PSN)Croewe]

2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Snip

What you're asking for are already here as riven quests buy a bunch of veiled ones if you want to do that. Those are already cheesed so there's not much point to doing them without it, although there are a few that are impossible without cheese so...

 

2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Challenge: Kill 5 enemies with a single sniper bullet.

Oh god no! Please for the love of God NO!

Edited January 22, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[LuckyCharm]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

What you're asking for are already here as riven quests buy a bunch of veiled ones if you want to do that.

 

Oh god no! Please for the love of God NO!

And riven unlocking is fun, but there are far too few challenges, and they've been dumbed down a whole lot by people complaining they can't do them. I remember my first ones were "Synthesize a simaris target while taking no damage and using no abilities" or "Complete a solo survival without killing anyone while wearing a hobbled dragon key"  Which were a lot harder than the simple ones we have now like "kill 19 enemies with finishers in one day"

 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

6 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

 "Synthesize a simaris target while taking no damage and using no abilities" or "Complete a solo survival without killing anyone while wearing a hobbled dragon key"  

 

Those still very much exists - at least on consoles.

As for your challenge suggestion - they don't seem very challenging and are easily "cheesed".

The exterminate headshot is already a fairly easy achievement on xbox for the exterminate on void...actually its more difficult as it exists because enemies DO take damage from non-headshots and if you accidently kill one that way, you fail.

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[Ecliptix]

I am fine with almost anything other than more raids. I cant stand the raids which sucks for me because I do like arcanes : / I would love a smaller group version of raids that give arcanes.

 

[(PSN)Croewe]

12 minutes ago, Ecliptix said:

I am fine with almost anything other than more raids. I cant stand the raids which sucks for me because I do like arcanes : / I would love a smaller group version of raids that give arcanes.

 

You can do a raid with 4 people if you want. In fact if everyone in your raid is experienced then doing it with 4 people is oftentimes faster.

[Voltage]

End Game in this game is what you decide to make of it. I know people who just do raids, people who just do fissures and trade, some do conclave, and some just like hanging in relays. If you are looking for challenging content, I suggest looking for an event clan, or push yourself within the content we have (I mean something like speed-running to improve times on missions, not necessarily endless missions). 

The Trials that we have may not be the most challenging, but it is one of the few instances, if not the only instance, where the game is actually coop. It requires communication of some form to complete the puzzles throughout the mission.

9 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

You can do a raid with 4 people if you want. In fact if everyone in your raid is experienced then doing it with 4 people is oftentimes faster.

It depends. The Jordas Verdict would be faster with 8 people, but definitely the Law of Retribution with 4 (because of the security stage and less players = less pads needed to be pressed).

Edited January 22, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

16 hours ago, Soul-scar said:

What is the point of power creep if there is nothing to creep towards?

Exactly this. We thought DE's intention was to start steering away from power creep, but then they added Rivens and set mods. Even without using multiple items from a set the combat stats now have a higher max than ever before. But to what end?

Finding a suitable 'end-game' to make people happy isn't easy though, and costs DE time and money to add.

For the time being, I would suggest making alterations to what we currently have to get more out of it - Sorties.

• Make Sorties repeatable. 
• Make the Sortie (missions/boss association/hazards) change each time you repeat it so you can't farm an easy over and over.
• Increase the starting level of the missions each time you've repeated the Sortie that day. (It will still reset at noon as it currently does)
• Increase the chance of obtaining rarer rewards the more you repeat Sorties within the single day cycle. 
• Create new hazards and tilesets for Sorties.
• Rework the reward table. Will likely need to lower value and quantity for resource rewards like Ayatan, Endo and Kuva, and move Rivens to the next rarity tier. Add more items to the table, possibly bringing back oxium, nitain and cryotic, among other rare resources to the common/uncommon rewards. Add new unique weapons and cosmetics to the rare rewards.

Making some of these changes to the only accessible end-game content in Warframe for 95% of the players will give it significantly more longevity, and hopefully be more rewarding in the process. There will still be some grind, as is the standard for Warframe but will at least keep players busy and bring back value to the Sortie system. There will still be many players that demand the best rewards for the smallest amount of work, however.

[Soul-scar]

My "why" comments are risk vs reward orientated. Yes it is challenging trying to solo up to lv300 enemies on a survival with Hydroid but why would I attempt such an extended mission? Something is significantly more "fun" if by playing a mission for 2 hours 40 minutes if you gain something worthy of this investment. RNG makes the thought of doing sorties somewhat daunting simply because there is a finite chance of obtaining something good. I don't think anyone does a sortie thinking there is a real chance they will fail it. Do people find sorties challenging? I have guys in my Clan that have been soloing them since MR8. The sortie has become less "endgame" and more 30 minutes doing something simply for the chance to obtain something valuable.

56 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

For the time being, I would suggest making alterations to what we currently have to get more out of it - Sorties.

Scaling sorties is a great idea. Even if they only scaled 3 times and you could only receive a reward on the table once. Could even add arcane at the highest scale. 

17 hours ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

"Add something" What? What you want them to add? Another useless type of mission with bigger numbers? Another super weapon to increase powercreep?

How many people have suggested game modes and mechanic changes over the years? There is absolutely nothing I can suggest that I haven't or someone else hasn't suggested in the many years I have played WF. When people do make suggestions they get the idea debunked by someone with 21000 posts and when they don't they get told they are not being constructive. Nobody asked for rivens and many protested but they were added regardless. My point is if the Devs want to add something they will add it regardless.

If my suggestion is going to get undoubtedly debunked all I can ask for is more rewarding/challenging and REPEATABLE content at endgame. If DE want to retain more players they need to do/add/change something at endgame. Add more raids for solo play for people with less time to organise groups (been suggested 100 times). Player retention is top of the list on any F2P model and as such my suggestion of "add something of your choosing" to entice players thinking of leaving is constructive.   

 

[UltraLYT]

LoR is not endgame, it is easy with an experienced team, it is just repetitive, going through the same process again and again while chatting and laughing, like a social gathering.

After I got the arcanes I needed, I stopped playing LoR.

[ikkabotz]

On 1/21/2018 at 3:15 PM, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

And where's your idea of endgame then?

What will prevent players from cheese this "endgame"?

What will prevent these players of getting bored after play this "endgame" for the tenth time like they did with Eidolons, Sorties or Raids?

 

What you did in this thread a bunch of people already did. Complain about the lack of endgame but don't know how to fix this problem or even what type of endgame will be.

Its easy to say: "There needs to be something to do or grind towards" but don't give any clue or idea about what you want to do or grind

"Add something" What? What you want them to add? Another useless type of mission with bigger numbers? Another super weapon to increase powercreep?

 

Everyone can say that this game needs an endgame. However no one here can't even answer what is endgame or what they want.

There are proposed solutions in other threads so don't go pigeon holing it as a mute subject or as if it lacks being identified. The fact is it's discussed a lot and there's loads of good feedback on it with solutions. The onus doesn't ultimately fall on the players to create solutions. It's still not getting addressed, in fact it's not even mentioned in devstreams despite it being one of the most widely recurring discussion topics.

It's easy to prey on someone's inability to articulate their feelings wholly in the moment, but there's loads of evidence and solutions vocalized by many people that lay stagnate well beyond the bullish comeback of "if you're going to complain, then make a suggestion". OP is vocalizing an opinion stated by many and it's not hard to read between the lines beyond a confrontation. In fact, there are already plenty of people past negotiating anymore and have quit playing. The need for a better solution beyond "Fashion frame is endgame" has been heir apparent for months and months. ..and more months.  

TLDR, don't attack one person for not "solving end game" when it's addressed collectively over a period of many months in literally thousands of posts and still not acknowledged by devs. It's clearly an issue.

Edited January 24, 2018 by komoriblues

[0zryel]

Here is an Idea: May be Endgame should be "Public PvEvPvP" Where you can use a Assassin unite of any faction to kill other players doing missions. You need to gear the Assassin up in order to take out even the strongest Warframes teams? That would entertain many, I think.

Also this should be an optional mode: PvP is not very popular in Warframe last time I heard.

Crazy Idea: Let operator take possession of other specific Faction unites for special missions instead of always possessing a warframe? Or use Clone Clem and augment him with DNA or gear from other factions to do missions? 

 

Here are my 2 cents for ideas of an end game.

 

[Toran]

Endgame

It doesn't matter what you do in Warframe aslong you do it in a fashionable way.

 

[Awazx]

The best "end of the game" that Warframe had was ... the dark sectors.

Unfortunately, the current state of dark sectors suffers from the same as many other things in Warframe: everything is half-finished / incomplete / abandoned.

[Umbrasi]

@-SDM-NerevarCM What about fashionframe? xD

This game is clearly all about collecting stuff. There is no point in having lets say Nova Prime or Lenz or War or anything there besides the actual fact of having them. So tru endgame is to make everything you have look amazing ^_^

[HeroOfTheWarframe]

Am 21.1.2018 um 23:49 schrieb Soul-scar:

1) Endless survival......Why?

2) Endless defence.....Why?

3) Endless interception.....Why?

This could be easly fixed in my opinion the fissure system have already a reason why it makes sense to stay longer in endless mission. Just add something to get more for staying longer in a mission. My suggestion: after clearing rot C you have a chance to get double the mission reward for then next rotations.  And after you reach rot C again increase this chance. The chance could be 25% then 50%,75%,100%,125%... . So you can get even more than double the reward (200% chance meanse you get guaranteed 3times the reward)  . Of corse this chances cant be the same in every mission. Def should have a higher chance because it takes longer to clear after every wave and excavation mission need a lower chance because its faster in generell. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by HeroOfTheWarframe