Why mains are absolute nonsense

[QueenKharn]

I have a stable of maybe 3 frames, but mostly go for Valkyr. Good luck trying to get me to have fun outside of that roster.

[AzureTerra]

3 hours ago, Ragnarok160 said:

everyone says they don't care till it affects them, did you ever consider that? 

In your opening line you state in YOUR opinion. You have a bee in your neuroptics about this for some reason and cant fathom that other people have no issues with how other people choose to play this or any other game that has a similar set up. If someone chooses to play X frame and Only X frame for whatever reason then fine by me, if they bring unsuitleframe into a unsuitable mission i happen to be in well i'll adapt and have to pick up my game but given most frames can do well in most situations its hardly ever a issue.

 

 

[MagPrime]

35 minutes ago, Jicematoro said:

Is this at the memes and shietposting range already? 'Cause lately I've been maining Mag, purely because Pneuma and using Mag is very much a meme.

...wanna join my Discord?

It's for Mag mains and such. 

[o.0-]

I imagine this is my own problem, but the only thing that comes to mind is this:

_{And yes, soul is older than stuff}

[AzureTerra]

13 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

No, OP ran away before we could.

Such is the way of these types of threads.

[Isca]

The original poster shoots themselves in the foot in a major way with their vitriolic rambling. Let's unpick it, though. Ultimately, I think there is at least some case for arguing that a generalist can be a great team player, because if you have taken the time to understand how all the other frames work (i.e. you really gave them a chance, not just took them to 30 for MR) then you'll know what the rest of your squad needs and how they'll behave in missions.

A real world example of this is how the Dutch teach 'total football' - all young players are taught to be comfortable in all roles. This method breeds a different kind of team player, and is much admired, yet the rest of the world mostly still teaches footballers to be specialists and focus on developing their innate aptitude for a certain position. In most walks of life, specialists who master a specific role are valued over generalists.

Anyway, back to Warframe. The original poster's argument collapses because of the simple fact that most people who 'main' a certain frame have still spent hundreds of hours playing with the other frames, partly because unlike other games of this kind you actually *have* to try out every frame and weapon to level up. Also, Warframe is a pretty easy game, bordering on casual once you know the basics. You really don't need to be super talented and all-knowing to complete all content the game has to offer. Once you intimately understand a particular frame and have sunk a bunch of forma into it you should be able to breeze most content. If someone loves to play a certain frame and brings it to every mission despite it being 'sub optimal', I don't care, as long as they are friendly and put some effort into doing what they can to make it a nice experience for the rest of us.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

12 hours ago, Ragnarok160 said:

Spoiler

 

Warframe is a game that at its core offers diversity and allows for a multitude of play styles. in my opinion the game is at its best when the player diversifies himself with the diversity of the game i.e trying new load outs, combinations and theory crafting. to be honest limiting yourself to a main greatly diminish the experience for yourself and others even if you don't realize it, i see it in game and on the forums people convincing themselves that if they main a frame that makes them more skilled with that particular facit of mechanical know how. HOWEVER i am here to breakdown the nonsensical ideology of a main.

1. Warframe was but also was not whole fully designed to be a game that allowed you to play a single style for the lifetime of your play through, its really confusing actually since fighting is really opened to a limitless load out. a good example is spy missions, YES you can do spy missions without stealth frames like ash, ivara, loki, octavia and "ahem" limbo but most people would feel more comfortable using said frames. skill does play a large factor in missions that require unconventional means to the speed shooting style the rest of the game conveys but the higher you go the more common people will or rather should resort to these frame.

Do you need to use a stealth frame in this missions type, NO but it greatly improves your chances, its more so a fact of "just because you can does not always mean you should" and that same quote goes for the rest of the game (at-least referring to higher levels) yes any potato load out you bring into the early game play level 1 - 60 can be useful but i'm more so referring to the very high levels of game play where strategy and smart picks will win over being stubborn and bringing lets say atlas into a level 100 defense mission. the game isn't just about shooting and exploitation but its about doing it the right way. think about your team and what real impact you'll have in a match before you go in.

2. "Mains destroy there own frame". what i'm referring to is the constant fan boying of certain frames that are holding back said frame and community. i'm talking about the hard fan boys not the people that really care about a frames well being. a long time ago it was oberon mains constantly ranting about how oberon was god tier and everyone else was dumb and lacking in skill when really all they were doing was giving DE a good reason not to buff him. Now a days its nezha and atlas frame which are two very lack luster frames who's powers are greatly over shadowed by other frame. instead of saying nezha's powers could use more synergy and talking about whats wrong with atlas (which would take a separate thread) they need to accept that some frames really are just bad and come up with ways to improve them instead of calling everyone whom talks bad about there frame skill less. i know there are people out there already doing this but i find them to be much smaller compared to the fan boys. think about it, if people didnt see how bad limbo was he would have never been reworked.

3. "support mains are the absolute worse". of all the mains i usually encounter the support main is the worst. yes, yes ik you main ev trinity and day form equinox you dont need to say it every two seconds. I see this a lot more in forum posts and support mains make it very clear that they think they are better then everyone.  not a day goes by on the forums that i don't see at least 5 support mains claiming they are the only reason why there team stays alive at level 100. let me burst the big head of support mains " your not needed". will anyone complain theirs an ev trinity on there level 100 team, well yes actually because without chain link they will die in about 1.5 seconds of entering a room and its even worse for equinox players since they have no defensive capability, and don't say 4 is good CC since once an enemy stops for about 3 seconds the CC no longer works on them and nyx users never own up to the fact that even though chaos is decent CC the cross fire will masque squishy frames. news flash yes people don't mind support frames but just like everything else you don't need one in every game.

i think it was about a year ago that the craze for EV trinity really sky rockets, i remember the recruiting chat wanted a EV for any ol thing but those days have passed and EV is really only needed in grinding missions.

4.  "playing a frame for 100 hours does not make you better with that frame" this one can be up for debate but before you hate me in the comments hear me out. i hate the age old excuse that playing a frame for an ungodly amount of hours in any better then someone playing the same frame for 20 hours, if anything it makes you worse. mechanically every frame in the game is the same (no rhyme intended) they move the same, shoot the same, the only difference between frames is there abilities and passives, the other 80% of there load out is open for everyone. however playing 1 frame in all reality makes you worse at the game overall. imagine you play a lot of rhino and clearly he plays different then a squishy frame since he can take bullets to the chest so a lot of the time when playing rhino your not dashing around so much but moving slowly trying to get head shots and maximize your damage, so now imagine you decide to play trinity, a frame that is very squishy and dies in a few hits, trying to play her in the way you would play rhino will have you dead before you realize you accidentally didn't bring your main, with squishy frames you need to move fast, weaving in and out of cover, but with all this movement its much harder to land head shots and maximize your dps. but lets reverse the roles now. a trinity trying to play rhino isn't used to the standing and slow movement of rhino and has very poor accuracy from never really practicing head shots.

sound familiar? because the number one reason i see people telling me why they main supports is because "im bad at killing and shooting" well you don't have an excuse since you limited yourself by not playing other characters. also i may look at you like your dumb since you may not realize you can use any gun. No one is born amazing at something but everyone can be skilled in it and trust me if your a trinity that can land constant head shots or a rhino that can move like a butterfly your team will thank you. also please no comments on how you have 100 hours with trinity and can head shot a Moa from 200 meters away.

• me personally, well i pick whatever frames i think will best suit the situation, i'm a very flexable and well rounded player that can play any frame in the game to great effluence. i dont want to act like im the greatest player or anything there are people who are better then me simple because like me they are flexible, making flex picking will make you a much more efficient tenno, trust me and your team will love you more for it.
• IK i bash on support mains more they anything but they are a really good example and the most common i see, yes i see plenty of ash mains, rhino mains and limbo mains that hinder certain missions because they never freaking swap off. every frame has strengths and weaknesses and some frames really are just bad at everything and its utilizing those strengths and weaknesses and exploiting them that will carry you to ungodly levels and if you choose to ignore my advice that's up to you, if you've made it this far only using 1 frame then more power to you. i wont tell you how to play the game but trust me i wouldn't steer you wrong i only want to see you and the game improve.

 

 

While there are valid points in this post, I'm afraid it comes down to personal choice.

I main a certain frame (I'll not name the frame to avoid the drama here). Why? Because that certain frame fits my playstyle perfectly. I can aid a squad, solo missions of any type (including most Sorties), and generally have a fun time playing. It's that last part that is most important, and should be to any player. Fun. If it's not fun, why are you doing it?

Pretty much why DE made 50+ frames and are still going. There are not 50+ roles in Warframe combat. So, that means the rest are for diversity in each category, so that players can find a frame they enjoy. Playing a certain frame just because it is the "best" for a given mission is counter-productive to co-op play. If everyone did that, then only those frames would show up for those missions, and play would become very boring, very quickly.

Oh, and I play the other frames. I have them all, and most primes. I just keep coming back to my main, because I have the most fun with it (though I usually wind up with other frames for the MR tests, lol).

[Gamma745]

5 hours ago, Frosthaven83 said:

a maxed out [Primed Bait] was used.

I think someone should make a picture out of this. Unfortunately, my Photoshop skill kinda sucks.

[R3b3ll10n90s]

14 hours ago, Ragnarok160 said:

Warframe is a game that at its core offers diversity and allows for a multitude of play styles. in my opinion the game is at its best when the player diversifies himself with the diversity of the game i.e trying new load outs, combinations and theory crafting. to be honest 1.limiting yourself to a main greatly diminish the experience for yourself and others even if you don't realize it, i see it in game and on the 2.forums people convincing themselves that if they main a frame that makes them more skilled with that particular facit of mechanical know how. HOWEVER i am here to breakdown the nonsensical ideology of a main.

1. Just main something (Titania and Nova for my case) doesn't mean I never try something out. And just talking about trying stuff out, my 2 main loadouts one is Titania with Soma, and another one is Nova with Veykor Hek both came from where I trying stuff out I means diversifies myself.

2. And which part of it is not true? You practice more and get better at it.

 

1. Warframe was but also was not whole fully designed to be a game that allowed you to play a single style for the lifetime of your play through, its really confusing actually since fighting is really opened to a limitless load out. a good example is spy missions, 1.YES you can do spy missions without stealth frames like ash, ivara, loki, octavia and "ahem" limbo but most people would feel more comfortable using said frames. 2.skill does play a large factor in missions that require unconventional means to the speed shooting style the rest of the game conveys but the higher you go the more common people will or rather should resort to these frame.

1. Dude, first frame I brought into spy mission was Volt and he was also the first frame I acquired in this game until.... I diversifies myself and found Ash, Ivara, Loki, Octavia, and *ahem* Limbo.

2. And that's why.... I diversifies myself and main something.

3.Do you need to use a stealth frame in this missions type, NO but it greatly improves your chances, its more so a fact of 4."just because you can does not always mean you should" and that same quote goes for the rest of the game (at-least referring to higher levels) yes any potato load out you bring into the early game play level 1 - 60 can be useful but i'm more so referring to the very high levels of game play where 5.strategy and smart picks will win over being stubborn and bringing lets say atlas into a level 100 defense mission. 6.the game isn't just about shooting and exploitation but its about doing it the right way. 7.think about your team and what real impact you'll have in a match before you go in.

3. *ahem* my first frame in spy mission was Volt *ahem* until.... I diversifies myself and found Ash, Ivara, Loki, Octavia, and *ahem* Limbo.

4. And just because it worked well doesn't mean you should switch to something else you're completely unfamiliar.

5. And the best strategy we usually come up with is bring our main in which we prepared for almost everything and doing great at it.

6. We can't do stuff right without shooting and exploitation.

7. If it's tough and it's more likely that I'll have to carry my team then... It's showtime for my main yay!

 

2. "Mains destroy there own frame". what i'm referring to is the 1.constant fan boying of certain frames that are holding back said frame and community. i'm talking about the hard fan boys not the people that really care about a frames well being. a long time ago it was oberon mains constantly ranting about how oberon was god tier and everyone else was dumb and lacking in skill when really all they were doing was giving DE a good reason not to buff him. Now a days its nezha and atlas frame which are two very lack luster frames who's powers are greatly over shadowed by other frame. instead of saying nezha's powers could use more synergy and talking about whats wrong with atlas (which would take a separate thread) they need to accept that some frames really are just bad and come up with ways to improve them instead of calling everyone whom talks bad about there frame skill less. i know there are people out there already doing this but i find them to be much smaller compared to the fan boys. think about it, if people didnt see how bad limbo was he would have never been reworked.

1. And that why we discuss and find solution out of it. So there is no one really hold something back even if they wanted to. Overall feedback speaks for itself.

 

3. "support mains are the absolute worse". of all the mains i usually encounter the support main is the worst. yes, yes ik you main ev trinity and day form equinox you dont need to say it every two seconds. I see this a lot more in forum posts and support mains make it very clear that they think they are better then everyone.  not a day goes by on the forums that i don't see at least 5 1.support mains claiming they are the only reason why there team stays alive at level 100. let me burst the big head of support mains 2." your not needed". will anyone complain theirs an ev trinity on there level 100 team, 3.well yes actually because without chain link they will die in about 1.5 seconds of entering a room and its even worse for equinox players since they have no defensive capability, and don't say 4 is good CC since once an enemy stops for about 3 seconds the CC no longer works on them and 4.nyx users never own up to the fact that even though chaos is decent CC the cross fire will masque squishy frames. 5. news flash yes people don't mind support frames but just like everything else you don't need one in every game.

1. But but but their buffs are really something.

2. I need healing

3. Well then they're super vip that we need to protect at all cost so we can reap benefit off their buffs and survive level 100 mission thanks to them.

4. Lets duck in that shiny cover over there while they're killing each other. I did solo mobile defense with regular Nyx before and Chaos is awesome CC.

5. No, but high level mission is very appreciated to have one them especially a main accompany in any mission.

 

i think it was about a year ago that the craze for EV trinity really sky rockets, i remember the recruiting chat wanted a EV for any ol thing but those days have passed and EV is really only needed in grinding missions.

4.  "playing a frame for 100 hours does not make you better with that frame" this one can be up for debate but before you hate me in the comments hear me out. i hate the age old excuse that 1.playing a frame for an ungodly amount of hours in any better then someone playing the same frame for 20 hours, if anything it makes you worse. 2.mechanically every frame in the game is the same (no rhyme intended) they move the same, shoot the same, the only difference between frames is there abilities and passives, the 3.other 80% of there load out is open for everyone. however playing 1 frame in all reality makes you worse at the game overall. imagine you play a lot of rhino and clearly he plays different then a squishy frame since he can take bullets to the chest so a lot of the time when playing rhino your not dashing around so much but moving slowly trying to get head shots and maximize your damage, so now imagine 4. you decide to play trinity, a frame that is very squishy and dies in a few hits, trying to play her in the way you would play rhino will have you dead before you realize you accidentally didn't bring your main, with squishy frames you need to move fast, weaving in and out of cover, but with all this movement its much harder to land head shots and maximize your dps. but lets reverse the roles now. a trinity trying to play rhino isn't used to the standing and slow movement of rhino and has very poor accuracy from never really practicing head shots.

1. Despite your hate I still gonna make such excuse anyway because the dude who spent an ungodly amount of hours in his main is more likely to have more experiences than the dude playing the same thing for 20 hours.

2. Well you contradict yourself. And no, not all of them move the same, some simply move faster, so if.... you diversifies yourself you'll notice that Loki sprint faster than Frost. And the differences between abilities is the reason I've decided to main Titania and Nova.

3. It's not that we playing the same thing over and over it's because... we diversified ourselves and find that other stuff aside our main are no go simply because it don't fit our play style.

4. And that's why we need to spend an ungodly amount of hours in her or whatever frame to get better and then you realized that you're god at it and eventually switch your main.

 

sound familiar? because the number one reason i see people telling me why they main supports is because "im bad at killing and shooting" well you don't have an excuse since you limited yourself by not playing other characters. also i may look at you like your dumb since you may not realize you can use any gun. No one is born amazing at something but everyone can be skilled in it and trust me if your a trinity that can land constant head shots or a rhino that can move like a butterfly your team will thank you. also please no comments on how you have 100 hours with trinity and can head shot a Moa from 200 meters away.

• me personally, well i pick whatever frames i think will best suit the situation, i'm a very flexable and well rounded player that can play any frame in the game to great effluence. i dont want to act like im the greatest player or anything there are people who are better then me simple because like me they are flexible, making flex picking will make you a much more efficient tenno, trust me and your team will love you more for it.
• IK i bash on support mains more they anything but they are a really good example and the most common i see, yes i see plenty of ash mains, rhino mains and limbo mains that hinder certain missions because they never freaking swap off. every frame has strengths and weaknesses and some frames really are just bad at everything and its utilizing those strengths and weaknesses and exploiting them that will carry you to ungodly levels and if you choose to ignore my advice that's up to you, if you've made it this far only using 1 frame then more power to you. i wont tell you how to play the game but trust me i wouldn't steer you wrong i only want to see you and the game improve.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by R3b3ll10n90s

[Spectre-8]

Maining a certain warframe of your choice always makes you better at playing it compared to players that have less experience playing the exact same warframe .

Experience matters , simple as that .

[Ragnarok160]

6 hours ago, OneOfTheNephilim said:

The original poster shoots themselves in the foot in a major way with their vitriolic rambling. Let's unpick it, though. Ultimately, I think there is at least some case for arguing that a generalist can be a great team player, because if you have taken the time to understand how all the other frames work (i.e. you really gave them a chance, not just took them to 30 for MR) then you'll know what the rest of your squad needs and how they'll behave in missions.

A real world example of this is how the Dutch teach 'total football' - all young players are taught to be comfortable in all roles. This method breeds a different kind of team player, and is much admired, yet the rest of the world mostly still teaches footballers to be specialists and focus on developing their innate aptitude for a certain position. In most walks of life, specialists who master a specific role are valued over generalists.

Anyway, back to Warframe. The original poster's argument collapses because of the simple fact that most people who 'main' a certain frame have still spent hundreds of hours playing with the other frames, partly because unlike other games of this kind you actually *have* to try out every frame and weapon to level up. Also, Warframe is a pretty easy game, bordering on casual once you know the basics. You really don't need to be super talented and all-knowing to complete all content the game has to offer. Once you intimately understand a particular frame and have sunk a bunch of forma into it you should be able to breeze most content. If someone loves to play a certain frame and brings it to every mission despite it being 'sub optimal', I don't care, as long as they are friendly and put some effort into doing what they can to make it a nice experience for the rest of us.

OMFG FINALLY CONSTRUCTIVE INPUT! its very true that the game is fairly ez, i don't think i've come across a boss that had ever stumped me, to be fair the most "mains" i do see are lower ranked players that's usually have a smaller pool of frames to choose from which is pretty fine i cant fault you if you don't have it. never during my post did i ever say DONT make a pick i'm saying being well rounded will carry you much farther skill wise, for example according to my profile Excalibur is my most used and yes i do enjoy his abilities but i never would have gotten as good as i have if i didn't use other characters that help me see the outside perspective of a given pick and its good to take a step back and see what others are doing.

[LSG501]

13 hours ago, Ragnarok160 said:

 also is it strange i might have a more a problem with veterans rather then new players,

Well I'm arguably what would be deemed a veteran these days, or at the very least a high level player, and while I'm not elitist in who I play with or anything I can understand why the 'meta squad' is requested by higher level players and it basically boils down to frustration with 'newbies' not doing things right and also wanting to do the grind as fast as possible which is a lot faster if you have a 'well oiled machine'.

[Ragnarok160]

4 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

I think someone should make a picture out of this. Unfortunately, my Photoshop skill kinda sucks.

i don't know why but i started thinking of this

[Ragnarok160]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

Well I'm arguably what would be deemed a veteran these days, or at the very least a high level player, and while I'm not elitist in who I play with or anything I can understand why the 'meta squad' is requested by higher level players and it basically boils down to frustration with 'newbies' not doing things right and also wanting to do the grind as fast as possible which is a lot faster if you have a 'well oiled machine'.

tbh this is more so a random que compared to recruiting where you can request what you want, also im unsure what would qualify as a veteran as well considering the criteria keeps changing, DE recent survey had its largest category being i think 2 years or more made up 60%, im trying to find the graph but i cant seem to find it, anyway i guess it depends on the definition

[Frosthaven83]

4 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

I think someone should make a picture out of this. Unfortunately, my Photoshop skill kinda sucks.

Sure, here you go.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Frosthaven83 said:

Sure, here you go.

Just so you know.  I'm stealing this. 

[Frosthaven83]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Just so you know.  I'm stealing this. 

Haha go for it. I made a full photoshop template for mods ages ago:

[Ragnarok160]

4 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

Haha go for it. I made a full photoshop template for mods ages ago:
 

omfg i love this, im stealing the bait prime one as well

Edited January 28, 2018 by Ragnarok160
edited out the picture, theirs no point in quoting the whole thing

[Ragnarok160]

welp i got some good advice about posting and made an edit to the header of the post, hopefully that helps, also for the people asking why the hell this post has 11+ pages its really the fault of myself and a handful of people that despite the fact keep calling my post nonsensical are following in the mayhem

[FashionFrame]

22 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

Sure, here you go.

also stealing! this is the best!

[Sloan441]

20 hours ago, Ragnarok160 said:

dont start commenting till you've read all of it, ik its a long read but i want you to be informed before you post your comments

Bit too long; the OP obviously feels strongly about this. 

He had me at the title, but I'm not going to get excited over someone that plays one warframe to the exclusion of all others. If you're desperate to avoid spending money, the initial slot allocation will tend to predicate this sort of behavior. 

In a game like WoW, a "main" character made sense and was necessary in the raiding environment. WF isn't WoW. I like certainly characters--warframes--a great deal and just tend to play them more because, well, I like them. The game isn't normally difficult enough to punish you (much) for a substandard choice in loadout for a particular mission--and your weapons choices can offset warframe choices to some degree and vice versa. 

And...I've already said far more than I initially intended. 

To sum up, I don't disagree, but don't care enough to worry about what others do, even if it ultimately hurts their own experience. 

[Letter13]

Going to be locking this for a few reasons:

1. A lot of recent posts on the thread are derailing/off-topic and indicative that the discussion seems to have reached its general end
2. Players have freedom of choice and are allowed to play whatever frame they want. Complaining about their freedom of choice in how they play the game is nonconstructive at best and destructive at worst (it may be interpreted as feedback that players should somehow be restricted, limited or have their freedom of choice of frame removed).
3. While not an actual metacomplaint (metacomplaints are complaints about others' complaints), the thread reads a lot like a metacomplaint or an implied metacomplaint (complaining about users' not liking or not enjoying some frames over others).

And on a final note, if players' freedom of choice in how they play the game or what frame they choose for a mission grinds your gears that much, you should recruit people for a squad to discuss strategy before starting a mission rather than playing with quick matched randoms.