Ember needs Buffing, not nerfing...

[TotallyLagging]

5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

She was buffed. 

1. Fire ball is better

2. Fire blast adds to gun damage

3. WoF is stronger and less range

4. Spammers stopped playing her

1. It's still useless. Level 40 enemies could walk over the small patch of fire without issue

2. This one is about the only significant buff out of the changes

3. Again, still useless against anything with high armor

4. ??? So less people uses Ember and this is somehow a good thing ? What is with this forums' elitism?

 

Literally all they did was cementing Ember's role as the low-level stomper. The one build that lets her do something remotely useful on high level/armor situation was with max range Firequake and as OP said, it's cut by more than half. 

Was WoF AFKing a problem? Yeah, part of it was due to the crappy matchmaking (or lack thereof) which mixes new players with WoF afkfarmers, but it's still a problem nonetheless. But they could've handled it better.

Oh, and you know what's funny? You can still 'ruin the game for new players' by slapping more range at the cost of some strength on your old WoF build anyways. The 2x WoF damage will cover the reduced power strength from your build. The change achieved nothing.

[TheLexiConArtist]

29 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

Oh, and you know what's funny? You can still 'ruin the game for new players' by slapping more range at the cost of some strength on your old WoF build anyways. The 2x WoF damage will cover the reduced power strength from your build. The change achieved nothing.

This is relevant to "but it was totes a buff guys c'mon" claims.

 

So let's say an Ember in higher content still needs the range coverage for survival purposes, and obviously seeks damage.

Old Ember: Leaves WoF running with base 400 damage. Uses Accelerant to cover the additional damage needed. 2.5 base multiplier: WoF = 400 * 2.5 = 1000 damage/tick.

New Ember: Includes an Overextended in the build to compensate the WoF range (we'll ignore the added cost). WoF has base 800 (once scaled) reduced by 800*0.4 = 320 from Overextended's negative strength stat. The Ember uses Accelerant to multiply the damage. But oh no, our multiplier double-dips on that reduced strength. The Accelerant multiplier is reduced by 2.5 * 0.4 = 1. WoF = (800 - 320) * 1.5 = 720 damage/tick

 

If we don't compensate the range... you're working in1/8th the total effective volume and costing twice as much.

Yes, you read that right. 1/8th. Because it's a spherical area.

4/3 * pi * 15^3 = 14137 m³

4/3 * pi * 7.5^3 = 1767 m³

 

Such buffs yo.

Edited February 18, 2018 by EDYinnit

[TotallyLagging]

5 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

 

Also that. Though I never claimed that it would entirely cover the reduced damage, it's still more than enough to roll through starchart content which was the majority of the complains anyway.

People are way too busy mocking "AFK Embers" to be constructive, it's really cancerous.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, TotallyLagging said:

1. It's still useless. Level 40 enemies could walk over the small patch of fire without issue

2. This one is about the only significant buff out of the changes

3. Again, still useless against anything with high armor

4. ??? So less people uses Ember and this is somehow a good thing ? What is with this forums' elitism?

 

Literally all they did was cementing Ember's role as the low-level stomper. The one build that lets her do something remotely useful on high level/armor situation was with max range Firequake and as OP said, it's cut by more than half. 

Was WoF AFKing a problem? Yeah, part of it was due to the crappy matchmaking (or lack thereof) which mixes new players with WoF afkfarmers, but it's still a problem nonetheless. But they could've handled it better.

Oh, and you know what's funny? You can still 'ruin the game for new players' by slapping more range at the cost of some strength on your old WoF build anyways. The 2x WoF damage will cover the reduced power strength from your build. The change achieved nothing.

Regardless of your qualms with Ember, She's better. This isn't about whether or not she's a top tier frame. 

They nerfed the range.. If you choose to not recast. That's it. The increased energy isn't as bad as some make it out to be. I'll leave it on at 100% and not even realize it. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Valgaarv]

Il y a 9 heures, Nakak a dit :

So you didn't once mention that a large portion of players used ember to "afk" What do you have to offer to also address that issue?

And whats the problem?

[SordidDreams]

9 hours ago, An8rchy said:

The only thing you had to do to fix a dmg build, was drop the intensity for an overextended. 
Same result, can still nuke low lvl missions.
Now heres the thing that this nerf does wrong and i really disagree:
-Half range is dumb, kills the use of firequake completly
-2x dmg is also dumb, having a bombard take 100 dmg pre nerf. and 200 after, wont change anything. Scaling OVER +dmg 
-Having 3 abilities that the soul purpace is to proc heat

That nerf did one more thing, which is to completely neuter Accelerant. You're right that WoF doesn't care, you just swap out damage for range and you're good again. But Accelerant was fantastic, not only did it magnify the damage of WoF, it allowed Ember to engage tough enemies by shooting them with powerful, heat-modded guns, whose damage Accelerant also magnified. Except now that we're forced to ditch power strength for range, Accelerant no longer magnifies heat damage by five or six but rather by two. That's a huge loss of damage output.

This nerf, as per the devs' explanation, was supposed to make Ember less able to speedrun low-level missions without impacting her ability to engage at high levels. It did the exact opposite, it left her completely intact at low levels where you don't need Accelerant, but at high levels were you do need it you're now even weaker than before.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

if it killed the speed running embers then I'll gladly wait a year before they revisit her again. Lol

Rest assured it did not. What it killed was the two or three Embers trying to play high-level missions (by which I mean sorties now that Raids are getting removed).

[(XBOX)Ahuvi]

the reason for the nerf was that Ember was used to speed clear missions with her WoF which is now personal space on Fire. Then everyone is also claiming  Ember afk. How the hell do Ember players complete a mission with rewards if they AFK? AFK is not zooming through exterminated not allowing your party mates to kill. 

[GinKenshin]

13 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

She was buffed. 

1. Fire ball is better

2. Fire blast adds to gun damage

3. WoF is stronger and less range

4. Spammers stopped playing her

1- still does crap for dmg, and the charge time is way too slow, the napalm AoE is very situational 

 

2- so you have an ability that encourages you to move, and one that encourages you to stay in 1 spot....consistency please? 

 

3- dmg means jack s**t in WF unless it scales. Having more dmg won’t help you in higher lvls (like they said), having cc does....and I find it funny how you didn’t mention the increased energy cost too....is that still a buff? 

 

4- And now they’re playing something else.....I don’t see how this fixed anything 

 

  It’s pretty clear this is a viver gate-style nerf, just like how they killed ev trin, polarize mag and jav exacl in viver gate they killed ember 

 

  Was she fine before? No, and this is coming from a fanboy of hers. She doesn’t need stat changes or QoL, she needs reworking. No amount of stat changes will fix WoF since it’s core concept is wrong

 

   Remember when they made ash’s bladestotm act like WoF? DE themselves said the concept is broken and OP....WoF is like that but in low lvls, why on earth wouldn’t you just scrap the ability and give us something new? 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

8 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Rest assured it did not. What it killed was the two or three Embers trying to play high-level missions (by which I mean sorties now that Raids are getting removed).

I do Sorties with Ember, and I don't build around WoF or use its augment. So it's really not a necessity, although it obviously helps. 

WoF is still broken though, and knowing DE they'll either revisit it again next month or they'll revisit it 2 years from now. Lol

[Hypernaut1]

5 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

1- still does crap for dmg, and the charge time is way too slow, the napalm AoE is very situational 

 

2- so you have an ability that encourages you to move, and one that encourages you to stay in 1 spot....consistency please? 

 

3- dmg means jack s**t in WF unless it scales. Having more dmg won’t help you in higher lvls (like they said), having cc does....and I find it funny how you didn’t mention the increased energy cost too....is that still a buff? 

 

4- And now they’re playing something else.....I don’t see how this fixed anything 

 

  It’s pretty clear this is a viver gate-style nerf, just like how they killed ev trin, polarize mag and jav exacl in viver gate they killed ember 

 

  Was she fine before? No, and this is coming from a fanboy of hers. She doesn’t need stat changes or QoL, she needs reworking. No amount of stat changes will fix WoF since it’s core concept is wrong

 

   Remember when they made ash’s bladestotm act like WoF? DE themselves said the concept is broken and OP....WoF is like that but in low lvls, why on earth wouldn’t you just scrap the ability and give us something new? 

Ok... Great, you think Ember is weak. Fine. That's not the point. The point is, she's not really that much worse. Losing range over time didnt suddenly turn her from a top tier frame into something unusable. Key words-. OVER TIME. She's practically the same frame with a few buffs, except now you have to recast WoF and she spends a bit more energy. 

Again, No one is saying they suddenly made her a to tier frame. But she's Ember with a few buffs. I truly can't see how they "ruined" her if she wasn't ruined to begin with.

[Marine027]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Hypernaut1:

Ok... Great, you think Ember is weak. Fine. That's not the point. The point is, she's not really that much worse. Losing range over time didnt suddenly turn her from a top tier frame into something unusable. Key words-. OVER TIME. She's practically the same frame with a few buffs, except now you have to recast WoF and she spends a bit more energy. 

Again, No one is saying they suddenly made her a to tier frame. But she's Ember with a few buffs. I truly can't see how they "ruined" her if she wasn't ruined to begin with.

Becasue it not fixed her lwo levle problem killign everything sitll, and high level it jsut is worse becasue CC is not the best still on her and more damge means nothing if enemys one shot you out of your range, but normal damge is to low to kil lthme and CC not lasts that long, so it made her wose in high level then before and in low level it not changed much consdieirng that is why she got changed. It not solved anything, buffs are nice if they are used right but due the high costs now in combination you can't take advantage of those buffs.

[Hypernaut1]

49 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Becasue it not fixed her lwo levle problem killign everything sitll, and high level it jsut is worse becasue CC is not the best still on her and more damge means nothing if enemys one shot you out of your range, but normal damge is to low to kil lthme and CC not lasts that long, so it made her wose in high level then before and in low level it not changed much consdieirng that is why she got changed. It not solved anything, buffs are nice if they are used right but due the high costs now in combination you can't take advantage of those buffs.

Ok. Well personally, she's better. I never considered WoF a great cc for her in high levels. It was unreliable. So I really don't see the huge hit in effectiveness there.

For me, her 1 had become more helpful in halting enemies at a distance. Fireblast damage boost along with accelerant gives me a good buff for my weapons that I take advantage of as enemies try to recover from the blast. I appreciate the added damage to WoF at 100%, e range is HALF, not 0. Sure the range is shortened, but it gives me added damage to close range enemies IF u choose to keep it running. Other than that, I think it benefits from recasting anyway, as it hits 5 enemies at a time when I do. The increased energy cost hasn't really changed my playstyle much either, so the cost feels negligible to me.

For me... She was buffed. Definitely not ruined like some people say. 

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

20 hours ago, ljmadruga said:

Honestly I don’t care if ember gets changed again. Unless her world on fire Range gets boosted back in exchange for doing zero damage, I’ll be setting my ember to collect dust.

I HIGHLY doubt DE will ever get back to revisiting ember because she already has a prime, a deluxe skin, and all four augments. She’s a dead frame.

LOL, i cant use accelerant plz let me have my toggle crowd control back! 

[ljmadruga]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

LOL, i cant use accelerant plz let me have my toggle crowd control back! 

One decent ability and 3 trash abilities do not make a good frame.