Equinox 4 augment (prime time 202)

[Roadle32111]

Please don't release this in it's current state. I can't speak on behalf of the Mesa players but the equinox augment is a terrible waste of a mod slot for basic functionality. Equinox is already difficult enough to build for where only one ability of one form can be effective on any give setup while everything else is redered useless. The lost space will only make it more difficult to use both forms, which defeats the purpose of switching.

I'm not sure how it would turn out but could this just be a quality of life change? Infact we can live without it. We players can wait for an effective 4th augment to come out later but please don't fill the spot with this. It serves no purpose in any practical sense to warrant a mod slot.  

Her first three augments are already great, which only makes this one harder to justify this one. Please don't. 😟

[Cyborg-Rox]

You know, it would be a little easier understanding your concerns and way of thinking if you actually showed us the augment you're talking about.

[peterc3]

4 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

You know, it would be a little easier understanding your concerns and way of thinking if you actually showed us the augment you're talking about.

Accumulated damage in Maim and Mend is carried over when switching forms.

10 minutes ago, Roadle32111 said:

terrible waste of a mod slot for basic functionality

The reality being, of course, that this change was never going to happen and the people in charge of the game don't think that Equinox should work the way that angry people on the Internet think she should. Would you really rather nothing be released?

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

Here is a perfect example of why this augment is a bad idea:

I'm running day form. Got 80,000 stored up. Excal took a hit and needs a heal. I have to...

-press 1 and pay the energy

-press 4 to heal and use all 80,000 to top of Excal's health.

-press 1 to switch back. Pay the energy again.

-refresh my 3 that turned off because I switched forms.

-press 4 to start building my dmg back up.

-just don't do any of that because, no. Revive Excal when he dies.

 

DE, do not release this Augment.

Make the dmg/heal storing part of the frame.

Release a new augment.

Please.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by (XB1)INe Saninus
Grammar as usual

[Birbyque]

18 minutes ago, (XB1)INe Saninus said:

Here is a perfect example of why this augment is a bad idea:

I'm running day form. Got 80,000 stored up. Excal took a hit and needs a heal. I have to...

-press 1 and pay the energy

-press 4 to heal and use all 80,000 to top of Excal's health.

-press 1 to switch back. Pay the energy again.

-refresh my 3 that turned off because I switched forms.

-press 4 to start building my dmg back up.

-just don't do any of that because, no. Revive Excal when he dies.

 

DR, do not release this Augment.

Make the dmg/heal storing part of the frame.

Release a new augment.

Pleases.

 

 

I can related to that, having to spend most of your time switching form is just terrible. The amount of time for each animation and rebuilding is just painful.

[Roadle32111]

41 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The reality being, of course, that this change was never going to happen and the people in charge of the game don't think that Equinox should work the way that angry people on the Internet think she should. Would you really rather nothing be released?

Yes. I would rather nothing be released. Once it's implemented, it doesn't matter how well or how poorly it is received, it's not changing. Complaining before the update however is the the only thing that has seemed to work in the past (on rare occasions). 

I'm not pushing for this to be implemented in any form at all, whether innate or by a mod. I just don't want yet another useless augment in the game. I only mentioned it as basic functionality to say it isn't anything special.

[(PSN)Croewe]

Equinox really is two seperate frames. This mod will not make people want to switch since they lose all the charge on their three. They'd need to completely rework equinox if people want to switch with her. I wish they would. I made a thread recently about it but people don't like the idea is switching apparently.

[Leuca]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

The reality being, of course, that this change was never going to happen and the people in charge of the game don't think that Equinox should work the way that angry people on the Internet think she should. Would you really rather nothing be released?

Except it is... albeit in the form of a terrible bandaid augment.

[peterc3]

43 minutes ago, Leuca said:

Except it is... albeit in the form of a terrible bandaid augment.

Except everything DE has done with Equinox says she is working exactly the way they want her to and there was no chance Mend/Maim would ever work the way people say she should.

If this mechanic is so necessary to Equinox then there should be no issue with slotting the Augment. If people don't think it is that necessary, why the constant threads telling DE this obvious change is needed.

[Whitefang_Dizentegrator]

Another useless augment, nothing new, it would be great if they will change it but chances is pretty low I think. If that will happen then I should stand at the center of my office and applaud for 5 mins laughing like I won a million.

[Roadle32111]

34 minutes ago, Whitefang_Dizentegrator said:

Another useless augment, nothing new, it would be great if they will change it but chances is pretty low I think. If that will happen then I should stand at the center of my office and applaud for 5 mins laughing like I won a million.

Good point. It is a very low chance of anything changing and even if it does, another useless one may replace it. If this somehow turns out well i might cry.

[Hypernaut1]

it will work great with the Duality augment. 

While i think its a rather boring sounding augment, i cant wait to try it out.

[TKDancer]

as i said in the other thread about this:

 

not only is this a band-aid fix in augment form, its a HALF fix, because mend still spends all the accumulated health to heal regardless of how little is actually needed, the fact that the built up buffs from peaceful provocation likely wont transfer over and that switching forms is still rather slow

 

 

safe to say i am dissapointed

 

 

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

36 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

as i said in the other thread about this:

 

not only is this a band-aid fix in augment form, its a HALF fix, because mend still spends all the accumulated health to heal regardless of how little is actually needed, the fact that the built up buffs from peaceful provocation likely wont transfer over and that switching forms is still rather slow

 

 

safe to say i am dissapointed

 

 

^all this.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

Agreed. Throw this in the growing pile of augments that really ought to just be base functions of their respective abilities.

If an augment is needed to make an ability/frame viable, then that augment should just be incorporated into the ability and replaced with an augment that makes it good in a different way, not just good at all.

Equinox is apparently designed to be played by alternating forms, and yet it's designed from the bottom up to punish you for doing so. Currently the only viable way to play her is to build for one form or the other and use only that form in the given mission. This augment won't fix that, it will just make it more obvious.

[Hypernaut1]

4 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Agreed. Throw this in the growing pile of augments that really ought to just be base functions of their respective abilities.

If an augment is needed to make an ability/frame viable, then that augment should just be incorporated into the ability and replaced with an augment that makes it good in a different way, not just good at all.

Equinox is apparently designed to be played by alternating forms, and yet it's designed from the bottom up to punish you for doing so. Currently the only viable way to play her is to build for one form or the other and use only that form in the given mission. This augment won't fix that, it will just make it more obvious.

Equinox is more than viable in her current form. I don't know if DE ever said she was meant to be switching back and forth constantly without drawback. She has a defensive form and a offensive form. You sacrifice offensive capability by going defensive and vice versa. You don't get to heal while building up a massive damage nuke. I think that draw back is by design. It's a risk/benefit thing I guess. 

How I play is when I'm on the offensive, I'm building maim, when things get tough, I switch to night and I'm sleeping enemies, reducing damage and burst healing. 

Personally, I don't find day as useful as night overall. 

This augment means you need to give up a mod or augment for it. If you want a more seemless transition, you need to sacrifice. 

Personally, I plan to use this mod with duality. I don't have a use for it in my other setups as they use pacify/provoke augment. 

[SenorClipClop]

30 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Throw this in the growing pile of augments that really ought to just be base functions of their respective abilities.

If an augment is needed to make an ability/frame viable, then that augment should just be incorporated into the ability and replaced with an augment that makes it good in a different way, not just good at all.

Mend and Maim are both viable abilities on their own without this augment. Otherwise the argument in this case is "buff me because I want it", which is not a good argument. Making the player stronger is not always better, especially when they're already strong.

30 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

This augment won't fix that, it will just make it ［perceived issues］ more obvious.

If you're looking for how this augment might cater into playing Equinox in new ways, here are a couple ideas I have just from the mod's description and off the top of my head:

1. Doing a bunch of damage in Day form, you notice your team is in trouble. With the augment, you have the option to either nuke the map and deal with the issue, or swap to Night and heal the team. You'll sacrifice some nuke damage but the heal no longer needs charging.

2. Kills within range of an active Mend generate squad-wide Shields, which pour into Overshields. Stack this with Nightquinox's 3 and the squad gets pretty decently tanky. But if you're building  Overshields, the squad probably doesn't need healing. This augment allows Night to build up defenses for the team and then use those pent-up stacks in a colossal area damage nuke via Day.

This augment may hugely benefit players who regularly switch in Equinox. It also seems ideally suited for quick switches into opposite forms when the player normally stays in just one form. It lets an entirely-Day form player tap into a really powerful (if sacrificial) heal for sticky situations,  and it grants dedicated Night setups a quick-fire AoE nuke. Sounds pretty good to me.

Edited April 5, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Great augment idea, cant wait for release.

[Leuca]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Equinox is more than viable in her current form. I don't know if DE ever said she was meant to be switching back and forth constantly without drawback. She has a defensive form and a offensive form. You sacrifice offensive capability by going defensive and vice versa. You don't get to heal while building up a massive damage nuke. I think that draw back is by design. It's a risk/benefit thing I guess. 

How I play is when I'm on the offensive, I'm building maim, when things get tough, I switch to night and I'm sleeping enemies, reducing damage and burst healing. 

Personally, I don't find day as useful as night overall. 

This augment means you need to give up a mod or augment for it. If you want a more seemless transition, you need to sacrifice. 

Personally, I plan to use this mod with duality. I don't have a use for it in my other setups as they use pacify/provoke augment. 

How would switching back and forth be without drawback? You still have to spend energy to do so, and even after that you'll be expending all the health you built up on whichever burst you decide to unleash. You don't get access to both bursts at the same time; simply more flexibility at the time of release. This doesn't fundamentally alter or add any special mechanics to the ability; it just makes it less awkward. You aren't removing any of the other drawbacks the ability has. This is literally a QoL change put into a mod.

 

 

3 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Mend and Maim are both viable abilities on their own without this augment. Otherwise the argument in this case is "buff me because I want it", which is not a good argument. Making the player stronger is not always better, especially when they're already strong.

If you're looking for how this augment might cater into playing Equinox in new ways, here are a couple ideas I have just from the mod's description and off the top of my head:

1. Doing a bunch of damage in Day form, you notice your team is in trouble. With the augment, you have the option to either nuke the map and deal with the issue, or swap to Night and heal the team. You'll sacrifice some nuke damage but the heal no longer needs charging.

2. Kills within range of an active Mend generate squad-wide Shields, which pour into Overshields. Stack this with Nightquinox's 3 and the squad gets pretty decently tanky. But if you're building  Overshields, the squad probably doesn't need healing. This augment allows Night to build up defenses for the team and then use those pent-up stacks in a colossal area damage nuke via Day.

This augment may hugely benefit players who regularly switch in Equinox. It also seems ideally suited for quick switches into opposite forms when the player normally stays in just one form. It lets an entirely-Day form player tap into a really powerful (if sacrificial) heal for sticky situations,  and it grants dedicated Night setups a quick-fire AoE nuke. Sounds pretty good to me.

Equinox's Codex entry says that she manifests forms at will, yet her kit removes incentive to do so unless you use a specific mod. Abilities being viable doesn't mean they aren't awkward or can't be improved. You aren't making either version of the ability stronger by improving its flexibility. Utilizing her forms is supposedly her trademark; why make it a hassle to do so? You said it yourself, you are sacrificing by committing to one form to unleash your stacks in.

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, Leuca said:

Abilities being viable doesn't mean they aren't awkward or can't be improved.

[(PSN)BloodyPlatypus]

I'm new to forums.

Do developers actually listen to what we're saying?

[TKDancer]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)BloodyPlatypus said:

I'm new to forums.

Do developers actually listen to what we're saying?

sure as hell doesnt feel like it

[(PSN)Croewe]

On 4/6/2018 at 6:10 PM, (PS4)BloodyPlatypus said:

I'm new to forums.

Do developers actually listen to what we're saying?

Sometimes... although you need a YouTuber to get things rolling sometimes.

[blaes]

On 4/5/2018 at 4:06 AM, (XB1)INe Saninus said:

Here is a perfect example of why this augment is a bad idea:

I'm running day form. Got 80,000 stored up. Excal took a hit and needs a heal. I have to...

-press 1 and pay the energy

-press 4 to heal and use all 80,000 to top of Excal's health.

-press 1 to switch back. Pay the energy again.

-refresh my 3 that turned off because I switched forms.

-press 4 to start building my dmg back up.

-just don't do any of that because, no. Revive Excal when he dies.

 

DE, do not release this Augment.

Make the dmg/heal storing part of the frame.

Release a new augment.

Please.

exactly, this should be default behaviour for the skill, not an augment. channelled abilities shouldn't deactivate when switching form, whether it's Pacify&Provoke or Mend&Maim (and the build up for M&M should be carried over). current behaviour makes form switching way too punishing, and just an augment for Mend&Main won't be enough to solve that.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 4/5/2018 at 4:59 PM, Leuca said:

How would switching back and forth be without drawback? You still have to spend energy to do so, and even after that you'll be expending all the health you built up on whichever burst you decide to unleash. You don't get access to both bursts at the same time; simply more flexibility at the time of release. This doesn't fundamentally alter or add any special mechanics to the ability; it just makes it less awkward. You aren't removing any of the other drawbacks the ability has. This is literally a QoL change put into a mod.

 

 

Equinox's Codex entry says that she manifests forms at will, yet her kit removes incentive to do so unless you use a specific mod. Abilities being viable doesn't mean they aren't awkward or can't be improved. You aren't making either version of the ability stronger by improving its flexibility. Utilizing her forms is supposedly her trademark; why make it a hassle to do so? You said it yourself, you are sacrificing by committing to one form to unleash your stacks in.

Except clip clop points out that this mod basically validates what the codex says.  The only reason people are stuck on viewing this differently is because we live in the mindset of min maxing.  Yes.  A proper build for night form means day form is useless.  and vise versa.  With this augment you get to use her servicable abilities that are fine on their own and build your 4 in either form to use for whatever purpose you need at the time and can switch when you need to to use that 4's effect.

It just sounds like people really want the strong effects from the min maxed form builds on top of being able to switch at will and stay just as powerful.  That doesn't sound like balance to me.