Corrosive Projection vs Steel Charge for Mostly melee gameplay ?

[Andaius]

Like the others have been saying, Steel charge is perfectly fine to use unless your aiming to do endurance runs and are going for high efficiency builds to kill the scaling enemies as fast as possible.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Andaius

[DatDarkOne]

22 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

CP is objectively better

 

you are going to find enemies you cannot kill because you needed to bring anti-armour CP.

 

You are not ever going to find enemies that need steel charge for.

gas/toxin/slash status doesn't have those problems with armor.  Now you can stack the bonuses of Steel Charge, Stealth Multipliers, Crits, Prowl Headshot bonus, and Navigator all together for damage that will completely bypass armor.  

CP doesn't really synergize with Warframe abilities like that or at all.  

edit: While gas itself doesn't bypass armor, it's status proc of toxin does get bonuses against it.  

Edited April 9, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[SeaUrchins]

Mostly melee players are pretty much useless for the squad, so you can go any aura, the rest of the squad will be carrying you anyway :V

CP if you want to become useful.

[JohnKable]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

gas/toxin/slash status doesn't have those problems with armor.  Now you can stack the bonuses of Steel Charge, Stealth Multipliers, Crits, Prowl Headshot bonus, and Navigator all together for damage that will completely bypass armor.  

CP doesn't really synergize with Warframe abilities like that or at all.  

edit: While gas itself doesn't bypass armor, it's status proc of toxin does get bonuses against it.  

if you are doing solo stealth covert lethality is your friend and you dont need extra damage.
Toxin damage is crap on level 80+ armored targets, and if you are going for bleed procs you really dont need that 60% from steel charge.

Mind that every frame you put the V polarity on for steel charge or growing power might have a very slight boost for solo and becomes trash for group missions where you need 4cp.
Make Warframe a better game #F*CKARMOR

Seriously, until armor scaling is changed (probably never) if you plan to play at least SOME group missions with a frame, just slap on CP. One decently geared up player can carry any team in any mission as long as others have a corrosive on, even if they do nothing.

Edited April 9, 2018 by JohnKable

[CrazyValkyr]

1 hour ago, SeaUrchins said:

Mostly melee players are pretty much useless for the squad, so you can go any aura, the rest of the squad will be carrying you anyway :V

CP if you want to become useful.

I think you're simply playing a different game or... playing with inexperienced meleeists. A wee bit 'smack my head' moment here.

Edited April 9, 2018 by CrazyValkyr

[Iludra]

I really dislike people trying to force a particular play style on other players "because it's objectively better". I call BS on the holy church of Corrosive Projection. For some players and frames, using Enemy Radar is going to benefit the whole team much more than CP. Just because you can't make use of Enemy Radar (perhaps you're not much of a strategist), it doesn't mean it's useless for everyone. Same goes for most of the other auras - you should pick one that's compatible with your play style and compensates for what your frame lacks, or plays to your frame's strengths. Corrosive Projection doesn't always fit this bill.

[SneakyErvin]

Corrosive Projection is only beneficial in 33% of the cases since it has no effect on enemies without armor i.e 99% of Corpus and Infected units which in turn also result in 50% of the enemies encountered in the void. Also, within those 33% it depends how much armor the enemy actually has and what group comp you have. There are plenty of frames that renders CP pointless vs those enemies while also inflicting massive damage or controlling them in the process. No point bringing CP if you already have surefire means to strip 100% armor effortlessly, since at that point it will only be a shiny mod card buffing your capacity while bringing nothing.

Best case if your polarities allow you to would be leaveing your aura slot unpolarized, letting you switch between SC, Amps and Corrosive as needed. 

edit: Also as others have said, in a status build with slash procs CP is utterly useless, same deal if you run a finisher melee build with Inaros or Ash for example. What should also be noted, while CP has zero use in many cases, Growing power aswell as amps will always benefit you, they work no matter what you face. So if you dont wanna min-max and swap stuff out, CP is not ideal, it is only good for min-max setups tailored for specific enemies and missions on certain frames. Ash, Mag, Oberon, Frost, Banshee, Hydroid are examples of frames that turns the CP aura into a paper weight.

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[LupisV0lk]

5 hours ago, SeaUrchins said:

Mostly melee players are pretty much useless for the squad, so you can go any aura, the rest of the squad will be carrying you anyway :V

CP if you want to become useful.

You know for a game that is promoted for it's diverse play styles, the community sure does like to curtail said diversity.

Edited April 9, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[SeaUrchins]

4 hours ago, CrazyValkyr said:

I think you're simply playing a different game

Meleeists as I observe them in the game are crybabies:

omg nerf %frame% 'cos enemies die before I run to punch them;

omg I can't hit %boss% with my exalted blade;

omg nullifier removes my buff plz fix;

omg toxin clouds punish meleeists;

omg cold proc punishes me for using melee...

And so on and so forth.

[DatDarkOne]

6 hours ago, JohnKable said:

One decently geared up player can carry any team in any mission as long as others have a corrosive on, even if they do nothing.

I've been doing it (carrying the team) for years now with Ivara and Mag without CP equipped at all.  Those who depend on CP don't bother to find out how the game mechanics really work.  

 

[Hypernaut1]

21 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I've been doing it (carrying the team) for years now with Ivara and Mag without CP equipped at all.  Those who depend on CP don't bother to find out how the game mechanics really work.  

 

I think you'll find that to be the root of MANY vocal complaints in this game when it comes to frames and weapons.

If something isn't brain dead easy to use, counter or defeat the displeased vocal groups complains on forums and act like it's too weak, impossible or cheesy.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think if you already got a status weapon that does corrosive or slash procs reliably, then Steel Charge is more useful.

If you are using a crit weapons that does not have the ability to proc corrosive or slash status reliably, then Corrosive Projection might be a better call.

It really depends on your build and weapon.

[Vox_Preliator]

For 98% of content, it really doesn't even remotely matter.  I'd say Steel Charge because more Mod Points.

Technically Corrosive Projection is better, as all weapons as well as the rest of your team's weapons benefit as well as scaling better, but again, outside of extreme circumstances one aura over the other doesn't make a noticeable difference. 

Once you're fully kitted out, you'll have so many options for dealing with armored foes that Corrosive Projection is borderline redundant, and before then you'll likely never fight a foe with enough armor that it's actually helpful.  You'll certainly want to have it should you go on an organized Endless mission where everyone uses it, but until then the bonus isn't even really worth the forma.

[dudefaceguy]

12 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

These have been my reasons for using Steel Charge on Ivara.  There's also the thing that I mostly solo 90% of the time.  A case where CP just isn't as powerful as it would be with a 4xCP group.  

Of the other frames I've invested multiple forma into, there is Growing Power. 

Yeah, if you're the only person running CP in your squad, it's not going to be very significant against high level armor because you will already have to bypass the armor in other ways. I did some testing and the difference in time-to-kill between using CP and Speed Holster was between 10% and insignificant.

If you're already running corrosive or slash, you will not even notice a single CP. Theoretically it will increase damage taken by a high level armored enemy by about 34%, but when most of your damage is bypassing or stripping armor, that doesn't mean much.

Of course, if there are multiple CPs in your squad that's different.

[FreeWilliam]

1 hour ago, dudefaceguy said:

I did some testing and the difference in time-to-kill between using CP and Speed Holster was between 10% and insignificant.

I saw something similar, with a bonus that the non-CP builds tended to do BETTER at tearing through those occasional high defense targets.  Enemy Radar also has a surprisingly good effect on total DPS and time-to-finish-mission.  I think people kind of went '4 CPs, Armor hard, all gone, bye!' and ended the convo there, y'know?

There are lots of active solutions to those issues and they can be a lot more fun than passive ones (I'm a big fan of Enduring Affliction for REALLY tough content.  Primary-Bam/Secondary-Bam/Channel-Channel-Procasauraus, even takes out targets with invulnerable periods the moment they drop it like Alad V).  

Melee scales really well in this game and the combo counter means you do more damage to things that stick around longer automatically.  CP tends to be the last mod to get into a Naramon slot because all you get is a flat damage increase against a specific subset of targets that you can also solve with a melee mod, a primary or secondary mod, or it just sort of happens if you're using a weapon with slash. :)

Speed Holster is starting to compete with that lovely radar for space in that aura slot.  Taking away that lag between switching weapons means I use them more, which means I discover more interesting interactions and have more variety in my gameplay 

Edited April 9, 2018 by FreeWilliam

[SneakyErvin]

28 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

I saw something similar, with a bonus that the non-CP builds tended to do BETTER at tearing through those occasional high defense targets.  Enemy Radar also has a surprisingly good effect on total DPS and time-to-finish-mission.  I think people kind of went '4 CPs, Armor hard, all gone, bye!' and ended the convo there, y'know?

There are lots of active solutions to those issues and they can be a lot more fun than passive ones (I'm a big fan of Enduring Affliction for REALLY tough content.  Primary-Bam/Secondary-Bam/Channel-Channel-Procasauraus, even takes out targets with invulnerable periods the moment they drop it like Alad V).  

Melee scales really well in this game and the combo counter means you do more damage to things that stick around longer automatically.  CP tends to be the last mod to get into a Naramon slot because all you get is a flat damage increase against a specific subset of targets that you can also solve with a melee mod, a primary or secondary mod, or it just sort of happens if you're using a weapon with slash. :)

Speed Holster is starting to compete with that lovely radar for space in that aura slot.  Taking away that lag between switching weapons means I use them more, which means I discover more interesting interactions and have more variety in my gameplay 

Hmm this is indeed an interesting read. I've never considered speed holster before but now I gotta give it a try.

[FreeWilliam]

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Hmm this is indeed an interesting read. I've never considered speed holster before but now I gotta give it a try.

DE rewards thinking outside the box, and it's kind of neat how just swapping in a single mod can make your whole gameplay experience FEEL different, you know?

It happened to synergize really well with Enduring Affliction.  I'd noticed it extending slash procs when I was using an elemental melee weapon (one without a slash proc in the stance) and had to go back and re-read the mod...that's when it clicked.  ALL procs extend...per hit. 

An hour later I'd lured the biggest room full of mobs together with Ivara's sound arrow and rad-procced them into fighting to the death with a Lecta. 

 

This game's a riot. :)  That led me down the path of using Speed Holster to break down the resistance I had to using all my weapons (that resistance was 'I could have killed three infested during that animation')

Edited April 9, 2018 by FreeWilliam

[SeaUrchins]

9 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

DE rewards thinking outside the box

 

Yea, like that time someone thought of using ivara's invisible arrow on sentinel or sticking penta grenades to Sunika and sending it into nullifier capture target to blow it from inside. DE rewarded the outside-the-box thinkers with making companions unusable for these kind of tricks.

Rewards lul

Edited April 9, 2018 by SeaUrchins

[DatDarkOne]

15 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

DE rewards thinking outside the box, and it's kind of neat how just swapping in a single mod can make your whole gameplay experience FEEL different, you know?

A very similar thing happened to me when I discovered Healing Return.  That one mod changed a lot of my build strategies.  It didn't hurt that building for it with more status also allows for synergies with Growing Power, Condition Overload, and other mods in various ways.  

I also really like how you use Enduring Affliction with Rad procs.  That's just hilarious to watch I bet.   

[CrazyValkyr]

4 hours ago, SeaUrchins said:

Meleeists as I observe them in the game are crybabies:

omg nerf %frame% 'cos enemies die before I run to punch them;

omg I can't hit %boss% with my exalted blade;

omg nullifier removes my buff plz fix;

omg toxin clouds punish meleeists;

omg cold proc punishes me for using melee...

And so on and so forth.

Well, again - judging melee'ists based on few examples like that just induces 'smack my head moment'. I melee 99.9% of my gameplay, and guess what... I don't get carried. I carry people quite often, in fact. Just because you think it's impossible, it does not mean it is. :)

On the topic - CP is not as much of a 'holy grail' as so many people make it out to be. Warframe's biggest appeal is, that everyone, for most part, can find a way and style they enjoy playing. Don't let others to corner you into something you don't enjoy & what doesn't line well with your Warframe & weapon preferences for your missions. :)

[SeaUrchins]

16 minutes ago, CrazyValkyr said:

Just because you think it's impossible

 

No, it's possible. I resurrect the 99.9% melee carriers on daily basis and do most of the job, so I believe your story.

CP>SC /thread ;)

Edited April 9, 2018 by SeaUrchins

[JohnKable]

4 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I've been doing it (carrying the team) for years now with Ivara and Mag without CP equipped at all.  Those who depend on CP don't bother to find out how the game mechanics really work.  

 

did you get my point, right? the only enemies that are remotely hard to take down are high level armored enemies. 

That and the fact that any other aura gives literally no benefit in relevant circumstances makes CP the go to aura.
yes it is useful only against one faction, but that is the only faction that needs some kind of boost to get rid of enemies quickly.
Sure i can kill level 400-500 grineer without a single CP in team, but its still faster with 3-4 CP in team, so why not? why using any other aura that literally makes no difference in the time/enemy kill rate?

The only other aura that has a very narrow use is enemy radar, and only in survivals and only until they rework that part of enemy AI again. And even in this case its needed only in long runs where you could go short on life support and one is enough.

[CrazyValkyr]

9 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

No, it's possible. I resurrect the 99.9% melee carriers on daily basis and do most of the job, so I believe your story.

CP>SC /thread ;)

Let me just say, that you remind me of one Corrupted mod in the game - I cannot possibly figure out why... ;)

[JohnKable]

24 minutes ago, CrazyValkyr said:

Well, again - judging melee'ists based on few examples like that just induces 'smack my head moment'. I melee 99.9% of my gameplay, and guess what... I don't get carried. I carry people quite often, in fact. Just because you think it's impossible, it does not mean it is. :)

On the topic - CP is not as much of a 'holy grail' as so many people make it out to be. Warframe's biggest appeal is, that everyone, for most part, can find a way and style they enjoy playing. Don't let others to corner you into something you don't enjoy & what doesn't line well with your Warframe & weapon preferences for your missions. :)

just asking mate, as a 99.9% melee player, please quantify the amount of help any aura other than CP gives you.
Seriously its zero.
if you guys want to keep steel charge because too lazy to slap a couple more forma to fit CP i get it, i still keep V polarity on some frames i use the least.
But you seriously cant compare other auras to CP, because the result is always no benefit VS times better scaling against armored enemies that are the only enemies that need help to be killed fast as the others.

[DatDarkOne]

9 minutes ago, JohnKable said:

did you get my point, right? the only enemies that are remotely hard to take down are high level armored enemies.

If you are already bypassing armor, then those same high level armored enemies are not any harder than the other enemies of the same level.  Then it's all just a matter of taking out their health.  Which is the same for all enemies at higher levels regardless of faction.  

Think about it for a bit.  Just how good would CP be for a Oberon player for example.  There are certain frames/team compositions that just don't need it.    

Edited April 9, 2018 by DatDarkOne