Why Saryn?

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

b-but, DE is based in canada, and thus saryn is canadian....

My friend, so pure, so innocent... Never look up the equally pure and innocent show Hetalia, because the fanbase is weird.

Suffice to say, Canada is anime now.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Sheady said:

Her spores will be able to scale now, however they changed the status effect to corrosive which hurts against anything but grineer

Just to be clear, yes the Status is only useful against Grineer and Ancients. But. The damage is better across the board, and the scaling damage is what's so powerful about the new ability. Armour strip is a nice bonus to get on Saryn, but changing her 1 into a spreading, scaling, infinite duration until-all-enemies-are-killed-with-nothing-else-in-range ability is what's going to be better about this overall ^^ I'm hyped.

[Pixues]

What Saryn players can't do now is stand in one place and put spores on molt to shoot it over and over and over.

There is a weird thing in this game where players rather not play the game but do want the rewards at the end.

To continue the weirdness. After they will get the rewards, they will not use the rewards (for example a new warframe) to play the game normally. 

They will use the rewards to cheese the game more. Their endgame seems to be to optimise cheese builds. Just to cheese the game more and get the rewards faster. 

They are stuck in this never ending loop of cheese and reward. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Pixues

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 minutes ago, Pixues said:

They are stuck in this never ending loop of cheese and reward. 

As a guy that's been able to cook at a pro level for 14 years, I can honestly tell you that the Cheese is the Reward.

[Pixues]

4 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

As a guy that's been able to cook at a pro level for 14 years, I can honestly tell you that the Cheese is the Reward.

Careful tho, too much cheese isn't healthy for anyone. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 minutes ago, Pixues said:

Careful tho, too much cheese isn't healthy for anyone. 

Uhh...

Spoiler

 

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

39 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

My friend, so pure, so innocent... Never look up the equally pure and innocent show Hetalia, because the fanbase is weird.

Suffice to say, Canada is anime now.

I’v seen queens blade and monster musume.

 

but i’ll steer clear of hetelia thank you

[Djego27]

Le 11/05/2018 à 02:12, (PS4)godlysparta a dit :

Look at the developer workshop tab. Saryn is getting reworked.

Ember isn’t very useful anymore. Her Damage should scale like Saryn. However, people will then complain that she’s too OP and then she’ll get nerfed again. But they Saryn, a frame that does way better than Ember, gets a buff... Balderdash!

Ember always was useful in the last few years. Embers and Saryns damage is fairly comparable if you look at something like 60 waves solo non armor, armor obviously Ember takes the cake and Saryn is kind of limited. Saryn has a lot of(most likely intended) bugs to spore to throttle the damage to desired levels what makes her kind of rng when it comes to damage while having a lot less of a dedicated weapon selection then Ember(there are various great radiation base damage weapons for Ember however only one corrosive base damage weapon for Saryn etc.) and being just as energy inefficient as Ember.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Djego27

[den2k]

6 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

I saw it on Dewsteam and damm it was soo gooood. But it means Valkyr got new problem coming up..i even create topic about that

The only problem that comes on top of my head is the reduced range (but her claws have fixed range and they are powers) and the reduced effectiveness of range mods.

I think enemy punch through will still be a thing and if they improve spinning attacks it could be overall better. I hope.

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, den2k сказал:

The only problem that comes on top of my head is the reduced range (but her claws have fixed range and they are powers) and the reduced effectiveness of range mods.

I think enemy punch through will still be a thing and if they improve spinning attacks it could be overall better. I hope.

they wont reduce basic range, only range mods

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

but i’ll steer clear of hetelia thank you

Actually, Mon-musu is surprisingly tame for all that it's a fan-service show. They show a lot of expansively endowed ladies, but the protagonist makes it a comedy rather than smut.

But let me be clear, Hetalia is completely wholesome, it's gentle on the humour and actually has some oddly on-point political statements. My point was that the fans are just... odd people overall.

When you have a show that describes the difference between the UK, Canada and the US as this: 

Spoiler

 

England is a fanciful, blunt, obstinate former pirate who used to torment Spain. In modern times he claims to be a gentleman; however he is cynical, sharp-tongued, prone to rough speech, and yearns for the golden years. He is noted for being horrible at cooking which has caused America, his former charge, to have "bad" taste in food.

America is a cheerful, energetic and somewhat conceited young man who is obsessed with heroes, justice, and freedom. He has the habit of sticking his nose into everyone's business, which causes him to have difficulty making friends. He loves hamburgers and junk food, to the point of obsession, and can even eat strange and inedible things due to inheriting England's sense of taste (or lack thereof). America is also known for not being aware of how "the atmosphere" is when he is around others (which, at one point, he was told to read it), but it has been noted that it is not that he lacks the ability to "assess the situation", he simply chooses not to.

In contrast to his brother, Canada is calm, shy, sensitive, and hates fighting (But, it is said that he is a very strong fighter). Despite this, he is often mistaken for his brother and has found himself in trouble for incidents that America has caused. When he is not being mistaken for his brother, other nations tend to forget that he exists. He is also passive aggressive and was once able to make America cry by arguing with him for over three hours and pointing out every single one of his faults.It is also implied in a chapter he loves maple syrup as he is shown offering America some for his coffee.

 

You know that there's something right in the world ^^

Personally, I love the description of 'fanciful, blunt, obstinate former pirate'... that one gets me to smile every time.

[Birdframe_Prime]

23 minutes ago, den2k said:

The only problem that comes on top of my head is the reduced range

Actually, they're buffing base range on all weapons, and then reducing Range Mods so that they don't actually buff the range to beyond what it is now.

[Mental_Omega]

I mean, you only need to proc viral once so putting it on a power with a guaranteed proc on everyone in a radius like Miasma makes plenty of sense.

[Checht]

5 hours ago, Pixues said:

What Saryn players can't do now is stand in one place and put spores on molt to shoot it over and over and over.

There is a weird thing in this game where players rather not play the game but do want the rewards at the end.

To continue the weirdness. After they will get the rewards, they will not use the rewards (for example a new warframe) to play the game normally. 

They will use the rewards to cheese the game more. Their endgame seems to be to optimise cheese builds. Just to cheese the game more and get the rewards faster. 

They are stuck in this never ending loop of cheese and reward. 

This^ Thank you.

[DjKaplis]

Well, just because Saryn is actually fine and quite good in her current form and by checking on forum lately I didn't really see people asking for her to be changed this sudden initiative to "rework" her is suspicious.. We can only pray the rework turns out good or at least not worse than she is right now.

(Considering that Pablo also made Nidus and Harrow skill set tho there is high hopes it will actually be quite cool despite probable change of playstyle)

[blacklusterseph]

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Well, just because Saryn is actually fine and quite good in her current form and by checking on forum lately I didn't really see people asking for her to be changed this sudden initiative to "rework" her is suspicious.. We can only pray the rework turns out good or at least not worse than she is right now.

It does seem like Onslaught played a role in this despite DE's insistance to the contrary. Kinda like Chroma moving to the front of the line after Eidolons were a thing.

[Reiyd]

I am totally for this rework. Just to restate the things that have been so eloquently said before(and add my two cents):

It makes so much sense that Miasma is viral now. It is a binary status that is either on or off, so turning on that debuff in a huge AoE is nice, while spores can constantly speed up and ramp up their corrosive damage to strip off armor and then deal damage afterwards. The ONLY armor type in the game that has resistance to corrosive is Proto-shields. Once you remove the armor with spores, they won't be dealing the INCREASED damage from the armor, however they will not be dealing reduced damage at all. And on top of that, the spores ramp up insanely quick and have infinite duration. In about 30 seconds of that Prime Time clip linked before, you can see at the end how quickly it ticks up once they spread. Now imagine that in onslaught! When you FILL the room with corrosive spores, think how quickly THAT will tick up!

Again, I'm honestly really excited for the tweaks and quality-of-life changes.

[(XBOX)Sheady]

15 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Just to be clear, yes the Status is only useful against Grineer and Ancients. But. The damage is better across the board, and the scaling damage is what's so powerful about the new ability. Armour strip is a nice bonus to get on Saryn, but changing her 1 into a spreading, scaling, infinite duration until-all-enemies-are-killed-with-nothing-else-in-range ability is what's going to be better about this overall ^^ I'm hyped.

Like is said, its either going to be a hit or miss depending on how the final product will behave. Personally i think she'll be much much better with groups who have large AoE damage abilities that can pop spores however solo, im not too optimistic. Regardless we'll just have to wait and see. 

[Grimmstyler]

On 2018-05-10 at 4:05 PM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

This rant is against the players, not the rework.

 

Quick and straight to the point: You guys NEED to stop screaming "nerf", "RIP X Warframe" without first playtesting or even reading properly; it's cringy and pathetic. Saryn is getting a HUGE buff. Don't fear change, for f**ks sake.

 

Spores now dealing Corrosive? Buffed. You need several Corrosive procs for armor to be truly affected. Spores dealing lots of instances of damage with a 50% status chance pretty much guarantees map wide armor stripping. Viral was unnecessary, since one proc is all you need and further procs won't strengthen the effect.

Molt? Buff.

 

Toxic Lash? Buff.

 

Miasma changed to Viral? BUFFED! Unlike Corrosive, you only need a SINGLE Viral proc to make the damage type worthwhile. While Spores is busy chewing through armor, Miasma will obliterate the now armorless enemies. Having Miasma deal Viral is MUCH more efficient than having it deal Corrosive.

 

Seriously, that Developer Worshop comment section was cancer. Bunch of babies.

Yea, a different playstyle of Saryn is gonna take some time to get use too.. But Saryn looks like she gonna be a lot more effective..

I wonder if the Corrosive damage she does with 1st ability will be effected by the the effectiveness to factions? Or if it will just be a base damage with corrosive proc across all factions

Rip Bere DPS

[taiiat]

well, Saryn had been waiting for some touchups to the last changes for 2 1/2 years...
and 'no useless Abilities' is funny in light of how incredibly bad of an Ability Miasma is, due to just being one of the oldest Abilities in the game thesedays.

as always though, it's unfortunate that the educated feedback gets mixed in with 95% of people that don't understand Saryn, and that can make it confusing to others as to anything related to Saryn. so i don't blame anyone for being really confused, the comical misinformation about how Saryn works isn't helping anyone. 

 

- - - - - 

don't ask me why the solution to mechanics that are broken - because they are actually broken, saying they're supposed to be broken isn't an excuse, prventing the mechanics from actually working with 95% of the Equipment when working as expected and should be would be just fine - and complex mechanics that Players perhaps don't understand because the game doesn't even hint at them and the Playerbase by large isn't exactly what one would call dedicated and educated perse... it beats me too why the way to 'improve complex mechanics' is to remove them and make the Warframe an automated AFK bot. i don't know either, man. and it's frustrating that gutting the Warframe so that skilled play doesn't exist is the plan.

 

On 2018-05-11 at 7:06 AM, TermiteFrame said:

Anyone who actually used Saryn in full capacity would know the only reason the spores help against the corpus is that they transfer toxin which ignores shields this has very little to do with spores being viral.

that only comes into play if you're using a Sniper Rifle to apply Gas(or some other form of Spike Damage like Meme Strike in place of a Sniper Rifle - or an exploit with Melee that i'm not going to go into depth on), elsewise the Toxin Status you're transferring is pretty paltry compared to the Health of Enemies assuming we're not just AFKFarming a low Level Mission.

Toxin Status is not the source of most of Saryns' Damage, since transferring it only works in a useful manner with Spike Damage Weapons.

On 2018-05-11 at 1:37 PM, Thaylien said:

When you look at what the procs do to enemies, it genuinely makes more sense to have one ability able to proc Viral, guaranteed, instantly on the enemies near to you, the ones you're actually trying to damage, from a single radial cast.

This is because Viral only affects enemies once, it doesn't stack, and because currently you have to cast, then Burst a spore to do the same thing, and the range on that Burst isn't exactly amazing so that's usually burst, burst and burst again to catch everything you needed to. And it makes more sense, completely, to use that cast, burst strategy to leave the Corrosive damage and procs ticking constantly on the enemies further away, which you can now do because of Lash on Primary weapons also popping Spores at range, so that as they're approaching, maybe sighting in on Molt instead of you, they're getting steadily more and more vulnerable to your attacks, you're adding DPS beyond what a Viral proc could do alone.

as for Damage types here's some hints for (i guess everyone? :/) people that aren't thinking about probabilities and the actual functionality of Status Effects:

On 2018-05-11 at 1:15 AM, taiiat said:

Spores&Miasma:

just a little note here for Viral/Corrosive and Energy - in another way this literally doesn't work. Corrosive Status is permanent, Viral is not. soooo you apply your 65,000 Corrosive Status after the Enemy has had their Armor stripped, but need to recast Miasma every time it wears off to make sure Viral sticks to them because having to protractor out just when the Enemy is weakened enough that they'll die in another second or two if you apply Viral is unreasonable - so now you have to cast Miasma, and cast it a lot. 

the cheap Ability keeps uselessly stacking a permanent Status Effect that has already capped out forever, and the expensive Ability applies a short duration Status Effect and you have to apply it again and again.
i guess using Saryn requires having Energize Equipped now. and having good Efficiency.

no, i do not desire to apply Corrosive Status to Enemies that you've already removed the Armor on, because Spores will remove their Armor within like two to three seconds, and after that being Corrosive is an objective downgrade to Spores.
no, i don't want the Ability that's cheap and easy to spread to uselessly tick Corrosive on Enemies that already had their Armor stripped. and no i don't want to pay a lot of Energy to apply Viral to Enemies for a short period of time.

with the suggested increased Duration of Miasma, 100% Status would easily remove 90% Armor with one Cast. so then.... two Casts worth would.... be already more efficient than Eidolons with 5 Sarpa Shots (already >99% Armor reduction). about equivalent to 5 Sarpa Shots and 4 Melee hits. any more Armor Reduction past that is almost entirely a waste of time.

so why do you desire to have a permanent Status Effect applied several times per second, infinitely, to Enemies that lost their Armor a long time ago? i certainly don't. i'd much prefer to keep refreshing Viral since it has a Duration. Corrosive doesn't have a Duration.

 

i'm sorry but that's just how Status in this game works. 
i'm overall just disappointed that everyone on the Player and Developer side of the fence seems to not click with these facts.

On 2018-05-11 at 1:59 PM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

lash has so little effect on her that it's nothing but a waste of energy most of the time.

it's one of the strongest Damage Bonuses in the game currently, for ones that affect Melee obviously.
it is a very powerful Melee Damage Bonus. and is currently the entire hinging point of the true power of Saryn, to transfer that really powerful Toxin Status. Guns need to be Sniper Rifles and have Gas Equipped to take advantage of double dipping in order to compete with that.

On 2018-05-11 at 1:37 PM, Thaylien said:

As a Proc, the Viral Status is effective against all enemies, and Corrosive's Status is not, you're right on that. However Corrosive has only one type of HP resistant to it (Proto shields, which are run by Nullifiers, and Spores doesn't affect them in the first place) and has a bonus against the two types we want to get rid of the fastest (ferrite armour for Grineer and Fossil Armour for Ancients), while Viral is effective against Cloned Flesh and Flesh types, those two are hidden behind shields and armour, and it has a massive weakness against the base type of Infested unit HP meaning that one faction has a massive strength against Saryn and the other twofactions need you to use the combo procs of Toxin to actually deal damage.

on paper this seems like a big deal however as Viral, Saryn is already very capable of dealing high Damage through Armor, despite it not being a beneficial Damage Type. what Damage Type Spores is dealing isn't actually very important, because currently Saryn can cause Spore Bursts for enormous amounts of Damage (my favorite test situation was the Lv9999 Alert allowed me to actually apply things to the fullest instead of things dying before the full setup was utilized and ergo only taking partial Damage - i was dealing >1 Million DPS to the Enemies in that Alert) if one cares to use the important Abilities, and the Damage will 'infinitely' Scale if what's proposed goes live.
just like how it doesn't really matter that Magnetize is Blast Damage, because when it detonates that Corrupted Heavy Gunner over there that hasn't had its Armor stripped or even weakened much still died to a Damage Number of 7 digits or greater. as Blast Damage through tens of thousands of Armor.

so what is applying what Status Effects is what really matters here, either Damage Type will obliterate Enemies. it could be some other Damage Type and do very well too, as long as it wasn't like, Magnetic Damage or something.

[Grimmstyler]

Deal me in on the new Sayrn Rework!

My only Gripe is that if ability 1 is a active ability and can be detonated.. It should have the active ability symbol like Nekros.. And even a animation of Spore active..

Maybe somehow the animation could even clue to how effective spore is working.. That could really go well with a Viral Miasma

Edited May 13, 2018 by Grimmstyler

[Bouldershoulder]

Take a look at the last Prime Time with Pablo explaining things. They've also shown how it works in simulacrum.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Bouldershoulder

[MageMachine]

Spores were not buffed.

At present if you don't custom build a weapon for spores and instead just use toxic lash galatine prime, it is trivial to reach immediate 10k dps toxin proc spread to all enemies in range.

If you have 3 spores on a target, you will need 1/3 the toxin dps (3.3k) to match the current immediate damage. With 10 enemies at 3 spores each, it would take over a hundred seconds of uninterrupted ramp to match current dps. Keep in mind, if at any time all current enemies die, or you want to start a new batch, you have to reset the entire ramp.

For 99% of content, the current workshop build is a massive nerf to saryn's damage output before we even account for how spores have to be reset each time you want to start a new batch while advancing through a level.

All I know is if the forced removal of all spores each time we want to cast it hits live I will be ticked.

[Djego27]

il y a 25 minutes, MageMachine a dit :

Spores were not buffed.

At present if you don't custom build a weapon for spores and instead just use toxic lash galatine prime, it is trivial to reach immediate 10k dps toxin proc spread to all enemies in range.

If you have 3 spores on a target, you will need 1/3 the toxin dps (3.3k) to match the current immediate damage. With 10 enemies at 3 spores each, it would take over a hundred seconds of uninterrupted ramp to match current dps. Keep in mind, if at any time all current enemies die, or you want to start a new batch, you have to reset the entire ramp.

For 99% of content, the current workshop build is a massive nerf to saryn's damage output before we even account for how spores have to be reset each time you want to start a new batch while advancing through a level.

All I know is if the forced removal of all spores each time we want to cast it hits live I will be ticked.

It is not just this. Assuming you still have a high kill speed you will roll over the spawn table on the map at a very high speed, what means that infinite duration spores are not infinite but only last till you get a proper toxic transfer going or insert frame X(Equinox in particular) does press a button.

Also viral is Saryns double damage team buff, while you only need corrosive against armor. Outside of this it does little and you are basically down to spam miasma every few seconds for the de buff, instead of having it build into your spores what vastly increases her energy issues.

Misama not re stunning for the hole duration should trigger a appropriate comment from everybody that ever played the frame at least slightly seriously(solo L100+) and has zero other CC in the kit. However nobody in the dev post pointed it out that it is stupid, what is a clear indicator for me that non of them ever played Saryn at a higher level without cheese or never played the frame there at all. I for myself know how that works because this was like accelerant worked a few years ago and let me tell you it made Ember a walking coffin at high levels.

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

20 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Actually, Mon-musu is surprisingly tame for all that it's a fan-service show. They show a lot of expansively endowed ladies, but the protagonist makes it a comedy rather than smut.

But let me be clear, Hetalia is completely wholesome, it's gentle on the humour and actually has some oddly on-point political statements. My point was that the fans are just... odd people overall.

When you have a show that describes the difference between the UK, Canada and the US as this: 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

England is a fanciful, blunt, obstinate former pirate who used to torment Spain. In modern times he claims to be a gentleman; however he is cynical, sharp-tongued, prone to rough speech, and yearns for the golden years. He is noted for being horrible at cooking which has caused America, his former charge, to have "bad" taste in food.

America is a cheerful, energetic and somewhat conceited young man who is obsessed with heroes, justice, and freedom. He has the habit of sticking his nose into everyone's business, which causes him to have difficulty making friends. He loves hamburgers and junk food, to the point of obsession, and can even eat strange and inedible things due to inheriting England's sense of taste (or lack thereof). America is also known for not being aware of how "the atmosphere" is when he is around others (which, at one point, he was told to read it), but it has been noted that it is not that he lacks the ability to "assess the situation", he simply chooses not to.

In contrast to his brother, Canada is calm, shy, sensitive, and hates fighting (But, it is said that he is a very strong fighter). Despite this, he is often mistaken for his brother and has found himself in trouble for incidents that America has caused. When he is not being mistaken for his brother, other nations tend to forget that he exists. He is also passive aggressive and was once able to make America cry by arguing with him for over three hours and pointing out every single one of his faults.It is also implied in a chapter he loves maple syrup as he is shown offering America some for his coffee.

 

You know that there's something right in the world ^^

Personally, I love the description of 'fanciful, blunt, obstinate former pirate'... that one gets me to smile every time.

i know hetalia is wholesome. I just never liked it. read about it on tv tropes and just went:no.