[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD

[SenorClipClop]

1 minute ago, bbeeaann said:

I've used her in the Sanctuary going to about level 6-10 just to test her out, the KUVA Fortress higher levels, and some Void missies 40-60, just to test out my builds before I start making changes. Other players watch for my spore cast and kill my target ASAP, which can get pretty frustrating for those of us who use Saryn on a regular. The Sanctuary started to roll at around level 6; before this point my spores rarely got rolling due to player interaction.

No offense, but why are you salty about Saryn if you're still just testing her and haven't even adjusted your builds yet?

[Enedora]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You're aware that the spread toxin in this video has 2-3 digids at best right? The one thing that killed them at all was you shooting them twice with gas.

You can literally do the same now. Only that you'll recieve both, armor and life dbuffs from her kit. The fact that gas still makes spores pop even boosts its toxic ticks, rather then just lowering theyr health.

...if exploiting the toxic spread was your sole reason to play her then you really shouldn't have played her at all. That mechanic was abysal.

No, the spread damage in the very first video (no CP, no riven) was 4144 per tick. If you want to argue with me, watch the video first rather than spewing nonsense. You'll see an immediate 9.3k proc on the far right gunner (far outside of the AOE range of the gas) followed by constant ticks of 4144 until it keels over. You might also be able to pick out the fact that it's specifically a Viral proc that it's attached to, because Spores spread the damage given to them by the toxin effect as Viral.

Spores no longer propagate any amount of damage of any type. Since you seem to be unable to watch videos and take information from them, I'll simply explain it with words:

You could spore one enemy in a room up to level 140, shoot it in the head with a single, non-multishot bullet, and if it triggered gas status, the map would die. This is because the spore, innately, would carry a percentage of the toxin damage dealt to the spore if it was popped by toxin damage, and Gas does increased toxin damage as it's status effect. Add in a possible (often probable) Critical hit and the only way the entire map wouldn't be dead is if you killed the host before the spore could trigger (which happens at lower levels).

Please, do the due diligence and go show me how you replicate such results on the current Saryn, if you're so confident that you can manage the same results now. Otherwise, I've got myself on recording killing 20 level 120 heavy gunners in live action with roughly five shots and ~25 seconds worth of time. Have fun trying to top that with the trashed sit-n-spin Saryn.

 

Oh, and

"" - I did roughly 10-12 Taveuni missions (20 minutes each), with a focus on range (because spores "scale infinitely", right?). Sure, the enemy will "Not survive" the "infinite Duration". However, that doesn't mean that the new spore is the "end-all" thing. Often times, enemies will die quicker due to teamates, and you will NOT see those spores spread effectively. So now those 2-3 enemies are dead, with the spores NOT spreading. Congratulations, go cast it again now, and "stay out of sight", starting all over from scratch. You will be the most ineffective team mate in this regard. It would have been the least amount of fun you will have had ever, and you will not play her again. To emphasize this, you could bring a squad-limbo, and just sit, banished for eternity, but you will not be effective at what you are doing, or have any iota of fun in the process. I have not had any "Success" doing it this way, and I am thankful, because it is reminiscent of the campy-style 2.0 Saryn, and I didn't enjoy that either. - ""

So, is it a bad thing, or a good thing, that a once powerful team buff of the viral status that few other frames could replace is being taken out of the game for a slower effect along the lines of something any four person group will often bring along just because it's the best option? How I see it, Viral is going to be better in the cases with low level enemies, because it'll mean they die to persistent DOTs like Maim quicker, and it's also going to be better in higher level content where CP is essentially required and Viral is just a flat 200% bonus.

Ignore for the moment the fact that any player could run a build to capitalize on a spore placed by an ally Saryn and put out wide AOE toxin death, because, of course, they could just run toxin on weapons, or better run an unpaired Fire element and have the Saryn run Venom Dose to make the damage really go crazy. These are all things you can never even conceive of doing anymore.

Saryn is now worse in constructed teams, she is now worse in freely acquired teams, so why would I want to play her?

Edited May 19, 2018 by Enedora

[SenorClipClop]

4 minutes ago, bbeeaann said:

I've spent more than an hour playing the new change with slight changes to my builds to see if I can help spore move, and nothing works because you cannot cast multiple spores. DE should have put a timer on Spore so it can't be spammed. It would be better than this current change that allows other players to destroy your ability to spread your spore.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you completely. Is "allies are killing targets quickly so I can't spread spores" the complete and sole point you're making here?

[Dolerhyde]

Played a bunch of the reworked Saryn.  Overall great job.  The ramping damage is great to play with, and not too powerful since it frequently grows in power till it burns itself out.  The switch to corrosive damage is good in solo and PUG group play.  The increased range on Miasma is really nice.  The scaling temporary health on molt makes it usable in much higher levels of play.  I do have one major criticism and a few minor suggestions.  

 

My only main issue is that she has some of the worst 'same frame overlap' anti-synergy.  In a group with more than one Saryn, whichever gets their spore off first will prevent other Saryn players from functionally utilizing their spores without going at least one tile away to find uninfected enemies.  I would suggest that enemies can take a maximum of 3 spores per Saryn.  This would prevent the current anti-fun issue, and not be too strong since it will accelerate how quickly the spores will burn out.  

 

For the minor suggestions, I have two.  The first is to have the augment for Spores changed to modify the damage / proc type of the ability to Viral.  This would be great in coordinated play where you will have full corrosive projection, and viral is a better status to bring.  The second suggestion is to add to the speed boost that Saryn gets after using Molt to make her invis / translucent for the period of the speed boost, with the same caveat as Shade sentinel, where she will reappear if she takes any hostile action.  I think this would go a long way in making sure the Molt is attacked immediately after using the ability, since right now it feels like it takes a few seconds for the enemies to change targets.

 

ALl in all, a great rework, and a very fun frame to play.

[Enedora]

10 minutes ago, bbeeaann said:

It's great you can go into Simaris's little playroom and practice killing high level targets without other players there to kill the target you're on without popping your spore so it can't spread. This is the problem with this current change.

You seem to misunderstand me.

My entire point is even in the case where the new Saryn wasn't hamstringed by her allies and the kit in itself, Pre-rework Saryn, without any of the buffs that Post-rework Saryn got, is better in both theory and practice than the new Saryn is because the damage potential was faster and was complimentary to what you equipped yourself with, instead of being irrelevant as a factor. I would be more than happy to take the nerf to molt and give back toxic lash buff to have Pre-rework spores again, because they were the only interesting ability in the kit and they got gutted for the sake of gutting them.

That being said, I can't wait to see what Brozime has to say on the subject. I'm already laughing. He's probably going to make a case that Venom dose is crazy because of the armor stripping potential or something as painful as that. Never has there been a more clueless individual when it comes to Saryn.

[Enedora]

Oh yeah, I'd love to have the toxic lash buff on pre-22.2.0 Saryn, but what I'm saying is that I'd rather have the worse of both molt AND toxic lash to have old spores again. Because new spores are so uninspiring and uninteresting on the whole that it simply runs me out of any want whatsoever to play the game. They took the most interesting ability in the game away and replaced it with flat damage.

I'd trade away all but four weapons of each type, any nine other frames, seven whole planets, 75% of my mods at complete random, and all of my arcanes to get it back. That's how bad it is compared to pre-rework spores, and I have no interest whatsoever in spore camping with molt.

[Nota_red_rose]

Here is my thoughts on the update, Saryn is good. To good, to be completely honest. However, here is some feedback that is constructive, Her 1 is very unique it is quiet difficult getting used to the play style, she is more a nuke frame then she was before. Trying to find that one spore is a challenge, because it could be in a different room with a semi high range build with the ramp up damage you either have to pick finding that one enemy with spore on it or recast it. There is no way to track where the original spore. Making the original spore much larger or have a tracker on where the enemy with the original spore could be. Her 2 feels more useless now, besides getting away. Because Saryn feels more squishy then she was before you either have to build with a lot of armor now or use regenerative molt if you run away from your molt maybe 10 feet you get targeted by everything living thing in that room, not your molt. My suggestion for molt is a 5-10 seconds in a 10m radius and that you're not able to be targeted by enemies. This should give us enough time to move away from the group that is killing us and re-evaluate the situation and a better area of attack. The speed boost is a absolute amazing concept and should be incorporated with other frames with similar ability sets, such like Nezha with his 4. In fact increasing the molt's incoming damage intake should be transferred to the user not the molt, this is a personal preference but I'm sure it would be a quality of life change with Saryn. Her 3 is incredibly powerful and should be toned down just a hair, with a full Mutalist Cernos viral/corrosive build you can bring a level 80 bombard down to half health with 1 shot while using her 3. Saryn's 4 is a troublesome, I feel as if this sets Saryn back to using Miasma as a room clearer, it is boring. To be completely honest it is more used to clear rooms and seeing the pretty pretty numbers fly. I don't have a complete resolve for this, but here is a few ideas; lowering the energy cost of Miasma to 75 without mods the damage of miasma is increased by how many spores are out by increments of 5%-10% with a base of 100 damage without mods. Using her 4 will spread spores to near by enemies but you cannot cast Miasma again until all spores are gone, this would reward a harder play style with a high reward but would help newer players with killing enemies fast enough without a huge struggle. Now, here is some of the problems that I have come across. In defensive missions spores will be cast on a enemy and randomly they vanish leaving your spore ability locked and unable to be cast again, tested this in a public testing and a solo testing spores just simply nuke the target into the ground, no pun intended. My sound for both Lotus and Operator is now sped up to gibberish(still working on a fix around for this, might submit a ticket.) With the melee changes, whips still hit threw walls, No other weapon does this now but it's a hit or miss with whips sometimes you can and sometimes you can't. All in all the changes for Saryn seems brilliant and I applaud DE for working on a such an amazing frame.               

[SenorClipClop]

3 minutes ago, bbeeaann said:

Yes. If you cannot set up your spore to move around the map you have just hamstringed Saryn. Players need to be able to cast Spore more than one time if DE will not make the initial target that receives the first spore immune to player damage. If you want to slow down a players ability to recast then place a timer on Spore. There are more issues than this when it comes to Spore. I kill a primed target, and the targets closest to the initial target are not being infected with Spores. This maybe part of the reason I feel the Spore is not spreading. I've seen other posts with the issue listed already, so I decided to leave that one alone. I'm trying hard to contain my ire of this. I'm just disgusted.

Alright, alright. Well first I'd suggest to bench disgust for now until they work out anything that looks like a bug. If it's a bug, it's obviously unintended and not reflective of the design goal. I haven't seen it myself, but I've heard tell of Spores having trouble spreading when playing as a client or when there are multiple Saryns in the party.

Second, I have my doubts that there are no opportunities to make Spores take hold. It can be a challenge and it may require you act quickly at times, but in my opinion if there is absolutely no time for you to spread Spores before something else kills the enemy, you're in levels so low that Spores aren't needed. If you're still having trouble in mid-high levels and beyond, here's what I've found to be really useful:

High-range Saryn, low Strength but not too low. Mine's sitting at 265% Range and 70% Strength, meaning there's a 34% chance per tick for Corrosive (nbd below Level 100) and the Spores spread over 40 meters at a time. The damage ramp-up is slower, but the goal in this build is to keep them up and get damage scaling higher overall, since higher strength means faster ramp-up, means you're going to kill everything and have to start over much sooner. Combine that with the fact that Saryn deals damage from multiple sources (many of which attack health directly) and you're going to need to refresh Spores at least sometimes anyway. Anyway, the gameplay is simple. Always have Lash up, Spore a target and then immediately hit it with damage. Now the entire room is affected and your powerful allies don't matter (above Lvl 25ish anyway) because you can go in any direction and find Spored targets. You can herd mobs a little with Molt and hit them when they're en route to spread Spores in desired directions. For lower-level gameplay (pre-Sortie), Miasma kills everything too fast and on this build has a 50-meter Range, so I only use it when I wanna wipe the room and start Spores over.

[Sasuda]

So another bug sometimes Spores clogs up and shows Spores as active without enemies, can't detonate or recast.

Further looking into her Spores really can do work in really, really specific situations with Spore. Those situations are solo with high spawns in small areas, and... that's pretty much it. You can use it in a team but it's significantly worse. Also generally avoid doing anything else other than wait for Spores, cast Molt for safety. Very niche buff, overall use nerfed, and not particularly fun in comparison to our last iteration. Spore counter is really handy though so at least it's got that. Augment now replacement for Spores use when in a team, makes it feel forced and unnecessary given benefits of using her other abilities, especially Miasma and Toxic Lash. Also many players either build for corrosive already or use Corrosive Projection. 
Molt is better and viable as a defensive tactic, offensive options completely gone. I guess the speed is an offensive boost. It could really use a timer on this though. Is the speed boost affected by mods? Energy for the speed boost still not worthwhile for offensive use. Mostly a backpocket defensive tactic. Back to basics but viable, although not interesting. Spore on Molt was possible to spam sure, still took more thought and effort than current Spore does. In exchange we lost the Viral mine tactic, the quick relatively consistent spread, nearby enemies alarm, & offensive anchor point tactics.
Toxic Lash is quite powerful now and pretty much should always be on (if not Spore nuking in those select scenarios). Does a lot of damage and more useful for on the go. Energy Regen gone, Spore Molt efficiency bonus gone makes her really energy hungry in most situations, and lost her one useful way of dealing with Energy drainers. Generic damage buff with status bonus on top. Interesting and unique tactics gone for general play tactics.
Miasma this is now your expensive spam for situations that aren't Spore friendly. Similar to original Saryn but slightly slower but much better scaling damage due to Viral Proc. Deals lots of damage with Spores and wipes it out preventing it from spreading. New anti-synergy. No longer has Molt's bonus, but also no longer destroys Molt's defensive use. Pairs well with Toxic Lash, which any Viral and basic damage boost would do. Good standalone ability again but no longer has any tactical synergy with her kit. Old version pretty much just didn't do enough Corrosive work to be worth the buildup, New version is scaling original version basically.

Overall switching Corrosive and Viral has been the worst change in my opinion, the dropping of all synergy being the next worst. It's not forced synergy because now it doesn't exist. Having abilities that each on their own have use is a good change, but dropping all the tactics wasn't great. Unfortunately I think this is a worse Saryn in the end.

TLDR; So basically she's still highly usable and powerful, but has gone from some highly rewarding and interesting tactics to basic boring ones. Kinda went full circle back to original Saryn but buffed, and less flexible and fun than first rework (and nerfed in team play).

[-ToT-CrackCook]

saryn got buffed when i thought it was a nerf... but this change to spores is just boring... its tailored towards onslaught... this is obvious... oh your playing exterminate? guess u have to go super slow if u want to keep spores going. or just hardly ever use spores because if you recast it, your gonna have to backtrack to the enemies you left behind that are alive because you recast spores somewere else... 
theres some hate towards doing things fast? used to love speedrunning missions with saryn, now, what, shes an onslaught beast? cool.. that meens shes boring for every other mission.
no spores on molt. ok
spores are one cast only.. ok
both of those? NO thats boring
i thought DE didnt like the onslaught spam? they made her a beast for onslaught without spam, and a terrible frame for anywere else.. failed on that one DE

[SyBuhr]

52 minutes ago, Enedora said:

So, is it a bad thing, or a good thing, that a once powerful team buff of the viral status that few other frames could replace is being taken out of the game for a slower effect along the lines of something any four person group will often bring along just because it's the best option? How I see it, Viral is going to be better in the cases with low level enemies, because it'll mean they die to persistent DOTs like Maim quicker, and it's also going to be better in higher level content where CP is essentially required and Viral is just a flat 200% bonus.

Ignore for the moment the fact that any player could run a build to capitalize on a spore placed by an ally Saryn and put out wide AOE toxin death, because, of course, they could just run toxin on weapons, or better run an unpaired Fire element and have the Saryn run Venom Dose to make the damage really go crazy. These are all things you can never even conceive of doing anymore.

Saryn is now worse in constructed teams, she is now worse in freely acquired teams, so why would I want to play her?

 

Spoiler

It's a bit of both. I just did Onslaught, using Rejuvenation, solo, and Spores made for range. I never dipped below 75% efficiency, with only Miasma being cast roughly six times throughout, mainly for the CC. I'm not just saying that to be a fence-sitter, either. It's bad in the sense that, yes, you can achieve that damage, but only when conditions are met. But it's good in the sense that, now you have a primary ability that scales infinitely* if you manage it appropriately. Yes, I agree that the change from viral to corrosive was pretty bizarre, but it offers something different, that could lend itself well to Pick-Up-Groups. It's strange, because I cannot achieve those same numbers on other tile-sets, so at a glance, her one looked to be broken badly. I am wondering if they will hotfix her spores to actually work well entirely for the rest of the game, because as it stands, there is no reason to take her for anything other than onslaught, due to small map size, and fast spawns.

The spores are great when they can propagate now, because high-end missions shove a lot of enemy-armor in your face, so now you do not necessarily need corrosive projection. In-fact, it could be detrimental if everyone did have it equipped, because then there is no bonus damage for the corrosive procs that the spores do now. Alternatively, if you did that, you could build for her Miasma, and just Nuke everything (Which is more stable currently, given how the spores spread oddly). This would obviously be a throw-back to her older days, where spore didn't do much at all. I will say this, after micro-managing spores (stress-fully, though that could be because I am not used to it), you can hit damage ticks up to 4,000. Now, I am sure a lot of players can actually hit higher than that, because there's a lot of people who are more mechanically inclined than I am, but 4,000 x 3 = 12,000 damage a second, also peeling armor, but before reductions to other categories. That's pretty good, for hitting 1, shooting an enemy, and playing the game while noting where targets are positioned. Mind you, Toxic Lash helped me a bit with this, but take that with a grain of salt; I am sure many players will not use Toxic Lash, unless they really need to spread those spores. I tried this on a separate mission, and the corrosive helps take down that armor for my Tiberon Prime to shred enemies, while trying to propagate the spores (spore spread still bothers me). Also take note that, I don't believe team-mates hitting the spores causes them to spread, so you could view that specifically as a nerf, since now her power is no longer fully under the player's control, but at the whims of your team-mates.

She isn't necessarily worse in constructed teams; you still have the viral proc on her fourth ability, and you have the versatility in PUGs to apply a corrosive proc on large groups of enemies, when Spores feels like it (which seems to be map-determined or something, not quite sure at this point). Obviously, in constructed teams, each player would coordinate what they want, so you may end up never utilizing her as you did before. But I believe the shift has made her more viable in randoms, where people don't necessarily have the luxury of planning before hand what each squad-mate will do, and I think that's a huge benefit. Her new Molt essentially allows you volt speed, with the bonus of acting as a shield; Meaning, I can now place molt on a team-mate, heal them, and during that time I know that my molt will still be there (due to invuln. time), and also run away if it really is too dangerous (both things, which I have done, though rarely, because you will find more AOE enemies later in missions). In essence, in constructed teams, you can still have a viable alternative to Corrosive Projection, via Spores, or you can utilize the HP debuff via her Miasma. It won't be as good, but it won't be the worst thing to ever hit, and I do think you could achieve something better (DPS-wise) via other frames. It's just a matter of play-style at that point.

So yeah, not necessarily worse, though I do think that really depends on what you are used to, and what you want out of the frame. She is certainly in that weird rework spot, where she is only good for certain tiles, under certain conditions, due to certain issues/reasons. I think my biggest complaint is that, if the spores spread reliably, she could easily become a power-house of a frame. Right now, it stands to reason she is only super-useful on Onslaught, which I think was the reason they reworked her to begin with....?

Spoiler is a long AF response. So, save your eyes some trouble.

TL;DR

She isn't the worst, she does need certain conditions to be met to be useful, and her damage output can become phenomenal. Until she is out of the "reworked valley bugs", you might just want to stay away from her entirely. I still play her to test her out, and answer questions regarding her, but I don't think it is "as fun" as her 2.0 days (Keeping in mind, I never played the "Molt-style" way).

 

[Kylo.]

Did a 100 mins Survival with 2 other Saryns and was wondering..

 

..why does corruption on enemies remove their spore? Why not have them invincible (as they are), and let the spore on them?

..can there be only one spore that is spread from another enemy on an enemy or am I seeing things? I shot an enemy, enemies nearby didn't get spored..

[SyBuhr]

43 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Alright, alright. Well first I'd suggest to bench disgust for now until they work out anything that looks like a bug. If it's a bug, it's obviously unintended and not reflective of the design goal. I haven't seen it myself, but I've heard tell of Spores having trouble spreading when playing as a client or when there are multiple Saryns in the party.

Second, I have my doubts that there are no opportunities to make Spores take hold. It can be a challenge and it may require you act quickly at times, but in my opinion if there is absolutely no time for you to spread Spores before something else kills the enemy, you're in levels so low that Spores aren't needed. If you're still having trouble in mid-high levels and beyond, here's what I've found to be really useful:

High-range Saryn, low Strength but not too low. Mine's sitting at 265% Range and 70% Strength, meaning there's a 34% chance per tick for Corrosive (nbd below Level 100) and the Spores spread over 40 meters at a time. The damage ramp-up is slower, but the goal in this build is to keep them up and get damage scaling higher overall, since higher strength means faster ramp-up, means you're going to kill everything and have to start over much sooner. Combine that with the fact that Saryn deals damage from multiple sources (many of which attack health directly) and you're going to need to refresh Spores at least sometimes anyway. Anyway, the gameplay is simple. Always have Lash up, Spore a target and then immediately hit it with damage. Now the entire room is affected and your powerful allies don't matter (above Lvl 25ish anyway) because you can go in any direction and find Spored targets. You can herd mobs a little with Molt and hit them when they're en route to spread Spores in desired directions. For lower-level gameplay (pre-Sortie), Miasma kills everything too fast and on this build has a 50-meter Range, so I only use it when I wanna wipe the room and start Spores over.

40 meter spread radius, or 40 meter spread diameter?

I think mine sits comfortably at 67 some meters, diameter, I still have frustrations keeping spores up now on various missions. Only time it stays alive is Onslaught, ironically.

I don't know what they did from 2.0 to 3.0, but I recall casting spores once, and it would go to the next tile before stopping. Now, it is almost a pain in the rump to keep it afloat long enough in anything other than Onslaught. Also, 34% chance is great, considering that is for one spore. Before she only had a 10% chance with spores to proc viral. I think the issue with spore is that, I believe in 2.0 there was only the over-all range dictated by one stat, that being the range of the power itself. Now, there are two stats, one for cast, and one for the actual spread. To me, I think it should have probably (if it was like this, anyways) have stayed one single stat.

[SyBuhr]

Just now, kylooooren said:

Did a 100 mins Survival with 2 other Saryns and was wondering..

 

..why does corruption on enemies remove their spore? Why not have them invincible (as they are), and let the spore on them?

..can there be only one spore that is spread from another enemy on an enemy or am I seeing things? I shot an enemy, enemies nearby didn't get spored..

I actually commented that myself. It's strange, because 2.0 Saryn's spores remained on enemies transitioning to becoming corrupted. Now they don't, for some reason.

Under the abilities, spore stats for me that only one spore is spread. Toxic Lash will burst all spores on an enemy, so you might want to consider using that. Be mindful, the spore-spread is inconsistent, given what some players are stating in this thread.

[-Anterior-]

I like New Saryn very much.Catharsis to exterminate a group at a time.This is attacker frames charm. I want a standard to buff other frame at this level.

 

[Naneel]

Had some time to play her more. And she is definitely not bad but could use some tweaks.

You put to much in her 1st skill. Why is her 1st skill the one to deal the most damge (even if it takes some time) ? Make it recastable, without popping the spores and use her scaling damge not for the spores itself but for the next skill you cast (just store it and use everything stored up on the next skill). This way it would be much less painful if the spores die out.

• The scaling damage could deal more damage on the next miasma (per tick or overall)
• Toxic lash could get a higher damage buff or alonger duartion
• Not sure if Molt can benefit from this, maybe make it a healing over time (like the augment)

I really like her rework but spores are a bit frustrating right now (in SO/ESO only if you have a second Saryn) and i especially like her new sounds, they suit her.

[SenorClipClop]

42 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

40 meter spread radius, or 40 meter spread diameter?

It's a 40 meter spread radius.

42 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

I don't know what they did from 2.0 to 3.0, but I recall casting spores once, and it would go to the next tile before stopping. Now, it is almost a pain in the rump to keep it afloat long enough in anything other than Onslaught.

I will concur that it's really easy to keep Spores up in Onslaught due to the one-room map, higher number of enemies and constant spawns into the same space. If all enemies are damaged and die at once without new unSpored enemies nearby, Spores fall off and often die out, but Onslaught mitigates this weakness.

Taking my Overextended build outside of Onslaught, I found that it did pretty well in keeping up against Axi-Level enemies, with Spores rarely ever dropping below 5 targets and only dying out a few times. I find that to keep Spores healthy and continuous, the best thing to do is track down those damage blips on your map and target the infected enemies.

42 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

I believe in 2.0 there was only the over-all range dictated by one stat, that being the range of the power itself. Now, there are two stats, one for cast, and one for the actual spread. To me, I think it should have probably (if it was like this, anyways) have stayed one single stat.

There are three stats. The first is Ability Range, which dictates how far away the enemy can be when you cast Spore on them. This first stat is solely about being able start using Spore, the other two look at spreading them. The second is Pop Spread Radius: this indicates how far Spores will spread to fresh enemies when you pop Spores (most easily done with Toxic-Lash-empowered hits). The third stat is Death Spread Radius: when an infected target dies, Spores will still spread to new targets, but only at half the Range of Pop Spread Radius.

What this means: if Spores are killing things by themselves, the spread is going be half as effective as you popping them yourself. This means that if  you're going around and actively hunting down your Spored targets, your poison will spread really well, and by extension your damage scales better*. If you leave them alone, Spores will still kill things as the damage ramps up and still spread, but they won't be as good at adding themselves to new enemies.

^{*Note that the stronger your Spore damage is (through scaling and/or Strength mods), the faster you'll have to hunt, or the stronger your enemies will need to be. That's why I have negative Strength for my build which focuses on Spore preservation.}

Edited May 19, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[Kylo.]

You will kill enemies at higher levels quicker if you let the spores spread and let them remove the armour from the enemies.

Also not everyone uses boring weapons like Tigris Prime all day long. 

[RS219]

Can detonate Spores be modified so that it's a "hold to detonate" spores? As it is, recasting spores is really awkward because (I can't speak for all players but) I'm used to tapping 1 to make sure I got spores stuck on an enemy during all the movement of combat, so with this new version of Saryn I wind up sometimes hitting someone with spores only to detonate it right after.

So with hold to detonate we can at least continue to cast 1 to spread the infection in different groups of enemies too distant for the initial cast to take hold on.

[HidesHisFace]

I've been doing some further testing on normal tilesets and on a sortie.

I've encountered the bloody bug with spores locking until you die and it seemed to be connected to friendly Nydus somehow. Casting spore on something affected by his CC caused lockdown of the whole ability.

 

Now, as for other things.

Spores are situational beyond belief. The absurd lack of synergy between your allies is horrendous. It was sort of a problem before the rework, but before spores used to spread in quantity of three and not one. 

Right now, ANY source of damage that isn't your own Saryn is very much likely to break your spore "chain" - and that includes your very own sentinels and pets. This needs to be addressed ASAP.

Corrosive damage is nice for mid level content but it is NO alternative to corrosive projection party in any way. With a corrosive projection on, spores are redundant and even without it, they are NOT a viable alternative:

- corrosive projection is a instant effect, spores take time.

- corrosive projection is an AURA, spores need to be spread, and are unreliable in teams.

Yes, spores in solo play provide a massive damage boost against armoured foes, but the benefit it provides in team play is too finicky and unreliable.

In terms of raw damage, I also find spores underwhelming - most of the stuff simply dies way before the counter reaches any meaningful value, especially against higher level enemies. Sorry, but spores on a level 50 heavy gunner, starting with ~30 dmg per tick is NOTHING, and said heavy gunner is going to die from regular gunfire WAY before spores stack any solid damage. If not for the armour stripping, the whole thing would be completely meaningless.

The problem with synergy lies in two aspects of new spores:

- enemy kill without popping a spore spreads only for half range it seems.

- only single spore spreads most of the time.

These two combined mean that your allies are less likely to pop the spores while attacking, and therefore trigger spread at reduced range - reduced range means the spores are far less likely to spread. Simple like that.

 

As for the use in missions - forget about spores in Sorties or any mission that requires you to actually move a lot. They spread too slowly and enemies do not bunch up enough to justify ever using them in scenarios like that. Ironic, for a change that was supposed to eliminate static gameplay, isn't it? Spores are viable only in missions like defence, survival or interception, where you can basically count on enemy coming to you.

 

Another problem is energy management - she is MORE power-hungry than ever. I'm running a high efficiency (175%) build and I noticed a massive increase in energy usage. Why? I can no longer rely on spores, but instead on much more expensive toxic lash that I have to run constantly in order to spread spores reliably. In addition, I also have to use Miasma a lot more, because to deal reasonable damage - spores themselves no longer do.

 

I will probably start repeating myself here - but "exploding" spores under the same key as casting them NEEDS TO GO. Besides - a single cast of spores is so artificially limiting, it is not even funny.

 

It is not as bad I first thought it was, but these are issues that are very, very annoying.

[Weltraumfred]

Hi

I am basically maining Saryn, and here is my review:

- The rework is fun, but it is a nerf, at least for my playstyle (Toxic Lash -> Spore one enemy -> Whack with Galatine -> Profit!)

- The armor buff and the changes to her 3 and 4 are very welcome.

- Sporecamping is gone and this is a good thing!

- Spores are nerfed a bit, but, and this is primary problem, they are now anti-teamplay. Teammates popping the spores is actually detrimental now, Saryn works best if she buggers of to her little map section and spores some Muthaf*****s, and spreads the spores around there

 

Therefore my suggestion:

Give the Spores a maximum duration. Like 20 or 30 secs. The duration affects all spores derived from the initial spores cast by the Saryn, and one Saryn can only have one instance of spores running. BUT all teammates can spread the spores. So if a Saryn spores an enemy, it becomes a happy game of shoot the bubble that everyone can play. And the better your Saryn and her teammates kill all the enemies, the more spores are popped and the damage escalates until all the things are melting.

Adjust damage escalation so that this is not totally OP

 

Anyways, thanks for the hard work DE.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Weltraumfred

[ddmaster12]

i really only have one thing to say here and not even sure if its a feedback but ehm
are her venom dose mod supposed to not work anymore ?
after her rework i can no longer cast spores on allies to give them corrosive 

and seeing as a fix to that still havent shown up i cant figure out if its a fix thats harder to deal with than the time since her rework went live or if its supposed to not work anymore?

in any case hope something is done cause i actually like the mod

[Rikarde]

The new recast to pop Spores option is nearly ruining this for me. I enjoy Saryn a lot and find her abilities interesting. Trading off a cast-on-Molt spam bot is fine for the armor stripping buff and infinite scaling, but the new Spores are incredibly difficult to work with. I already run with 280% range and still have to deal with situations where I have a decent Spore counter going and have to literally wait for newer enemies to get close enough in order to start popping or killing infected enemies. I cannot imagine how rough it is for players who don't run with maxed out range to have to deal with losing stacks because of inopportune times of enemy death. And this recast ability is all for what? Less than 2 seconds' worth of damage burst? The recast is neither useful nor fun to play with and ends up a hindrance to her spore's gameplay.

Not letting spores pop on gas procs is fine.
Not letting spores be cast on molt is fine.
Forcing a passive waiting game in order to feel rewarded for spore nurturing instead of actively looking for new targets to infest is not, in any way, fine.

That being said, the reworks for the other abilities are great. I'll miss the energy returns for Toxic Lash, but that's not as much of a game-changer.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Rikarde

[p3z1]

Base stat buffs - Always welcome, enough said
Spores:

Spoiler

Pros:

• Melts face, Grineer (armor shredding corrosive procs), Corpus (not as good as viral, but melts face due to lack of armor), Infested (ancients and mutalist units hurt from corrosive), and Corrupted (armor and corrosive, etc) alike.
• No duration means no rush in popping spores, unless you want to spread the plague fast

Cons:

• Second cast popping spores should go. Who even manually detonates spores (and for what?)
• Unreliable spread on spores per popped spore/s. Stated plenty of times. Probably a long standing bug that's just showing now.

Suggestions:

• Stated multiple times. Just let spores be recastable. Or maybe when casting spores for a second time, it'll create a new set of spores, detonating the rest.

Molt:

Spoiler

Pros:

• Regenerating Molt
• Quick change in aggro
• Quick status procs removal
• Quick getaway tool

Cons:

• Molt-tower should be a thing, why remove it?
• Does aggro even work with this thing? Maybe, but very unreliable.
• Regenerating Molt requires high strength to even be remotely useful, something that might rarely happen to the current Saryn builds.

Suggestions:

• Revert the change. Make saryn able to cast spores on her molt.
• Regenerating Molt should have a flat health regen (doesn't scale with power strength), or regenerate 50 (affected by strength mods) + portion of missing health (unaffected by strength mods) over X seconds

Toxic Lash:

Spoiler

Pros:

• Longer duration = better
• Now buffs melee AND guns

Cons:

• Loss of energy gain per spore popped. Saryn still depends on RNG for energy or Rage-type mods
• Not too obvious if the buff expires

Suggestions:

• Cap energy gain to the energy cost of Toxic Lash. Make energy gain 2/popped spore. For example Toxic lash costs 50 energy. Saryn should pop (50 energy/2 energy per spore) = 25 spores to regain energy costs from toxic lash. Popping more than 25 spores doesn't give any more energy.
• Something better to indicate the loss of Toxic Lash really. A minor sound or a buff indicator on the upper right ain't enough. Maybe make Toxic Lash buff art look obvious enough.

Miasma:

Spoiler

Pros:

• Spreads viral FAST.
• Stuns

Cons:

• Slightly slow cast time.
• Dependent on popping spores for full damage

[Kylo.]

10 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

• Second cast popping spores should go. Who even manually detonates spores (and for what?)

One enemy is left alive, you have no idea where in god's name he is -> you can't cast spores again until he dies. That is the reason.