So word has it a Nerf to Saryn is coming. Surprise...

[wizardeiges]

Pablo giveth Pablo taketh away.

[seprent]

31 minutes ago, MattM01 said:

I feel that her previous set up was fine. From what I have taken in from this thread is that D.E. is going to re work frames so players play the game in the style on how D.E. wants them to play. I see the logic from D.E.'s stand point, change the choices that players can make in the game by changing how the frames work. A loyal player that understands this will enjoy adapting to the continually changing styles and continue you to play and a less than loyal player will cut down their time in playing or quit the game altogether and play another game. D.E. has made such strides with Warframe and it is an amazing game for it being free so I honestly hope this kind of logic works for them.

i had no problems with any of her set ups De just doesn't like it when there is a too high of Automation that players use and establish a form of a diminishing return on it so at some point you have to interact with the game world then idk old spore turret or spin to win in a corner via a macro as examples 

and i want ot say it works for them just too many people like ti stick in there salty old world blues of what was or became so jaded to de that they only see everything they do as evil 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

17 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Then, supreme overlord, enlighten the poor, feeble minds at DE as to what the real problem is. You do understand the issue, right? It couldn't be that they don't have the same things in mind for their game as you do?

Why wouldn't they, given the garbage thrown at them?

This community: Wow DE why don't you stop making new things and revisit old stuff, lol what did you forget about all of it????
Also this community: Can't believe they keep going over old stuff lol, why not new stuff

They care about normal missions. New players care about normal missions. Quick tip: they don't cater to you and players like you exclusively, there are new players to think of. They have bigger fish to fry than your pet problems.

Agreed.  People are never happy with anything DE does, (mind you they are the only reason we HAVE Warframe!) and I can't for the life of me understand why they have such an overinflated sense of worth of their own opinions?  As if their constant whining somehow translates to actual Game Dev experience. Moreover, they go about this "constructive feedback" in all the wrong ways, creating click-bait titled posts and random DE trashfests just to "make a point".  New flash, people don't need to slap insults on someone else to make a point.  Just state the observations, open the post to discussion, and accept that results may differ from what you expect or want! That's the scientific way to go about feedback and changes.

17 hours ago, (PS4)super_sayene_4 said:

they have problem withe nerfing things (OP to bad and usless) like exodia contagion pleas DE when a thing is OP nerf it to be good at least thats not so harde

So you're mad that your broken gimmick isn't broken?  I have yet to see 1 thing in this game that is "useless" as so many claim.  Remember, not -everyone- is playing, or wants to play, the endgame content, and not everything needs to be viable for all other content.  In the case of Saryn, if her 1 kills "too fast" for lower tier missions, then where's the issue?  Things needed to be killed, and you're doing that...I don't understand the problem?   

12 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

This is a forum, the only reaction is overreaction

Sad, but true. Players are the issue, in most cases, I find.  DE can continue to make changes, but we are the ones that keep seeking to "break" the game mechanics, and we blame DE for our urge to do so, which is really unfair.

10 hours ago, CrunchyCloud said:

Right. Pet problems. Of course treating the symptoms and not the cause by nerfing good things that people enjoy is a "pet problem". It's not as if veterans have hundreds of hours of experience in the game and actually know what they're talking about, who cares about those guys right?

The damn "vet" label again... *rolls eyes*    As if DE hadn't been working on and "playing" Warframe, in one form or another, before it even became a publicly accessible game.  But yeah, what do they know 😛

10 hours ago, CrunchyCloud said:

You think this isn't about veterans as well? I'm pretty sure there's a way to make her useful in lower missions without nerfing the S#&$ out of what makes her fun broken in ESO.

FTFY.  And she can hold a sword or gun.  She's not useless.  If she can kill, she's useful.  If she can hack a console, she's useful.  I really don't understand the misuse of the term "useless" or "trash" in this community.

10 hours ago, Zeclem said:

now her spores do have damage potential. before we did not even have that chance. and stripping armor is not "almost useless" its actually very very useful for a handful of reasons. 

1-she did not lose her ability to proc viral over huge areas, its just in a different skill now
2-having a pub squad that all use CP is nonexistant, and making your own group with it is a big inconvenience for so many people
3-there are other aura mods that you can use when you stop needing cp.

rework made her undisputably better. yes, in low enemy density spores take a bit more work to spread, but where does the low enemy density happens? easy missions that did not need it anyway and can be just wiped up with new miasma instead. 

EXACTLY!  If she can kill on low levels easily, and she's tough as nails on higher levels...where is the issue?  People keep claiming she kills "too fast" but then there are other dumb threads about friggin' "weapon swap speed slowing the game too much".   What the F#$@#%#$ do you want from DE?  Speed? Less Speed? Should they just make a damn Temple Run with WF?  People, man...

9 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

 

Your opinion that it's "better". As for where does low density happen? Everywhere outside of OS and EOS. That includes endless Infested Survival missions. Even after several hours, enemies are still coming in waves. "Easy missions" are anything under level 50 where you don't even need to use abilities, only weapons. Abilities on low levels are FUN, not needed.

Bingo.

9 hours ago, CrunchyCloud said:

Univac (a toggleable option in the menu that lets you choose wether you want your warframe to have innate vacuum) is a great idea, and at this point i think this is about feelings and ego rather than reason.

And rivens shouldn't exist in the first place because "breathing new life" into old weapons is achieved by tweaks and rebalances like DE has been doing lately. At this point they're more about making DE money.

Answering/Responding to a request and GRANTING it are two different things, people.   And the whole idea of "Well make it toggleable for people that DO want it!" is dumb. It just is.  Why, if a potential advantage existed in game, would I let you take advantage of it whilst I willingly omitted myself from it?  Like...Why would I dumb my game down?  

Noone WOULD.  So that "solution" does nothing to fix anything. 

And ultimately, if DE doesn't want it in, that doesn't mean give to a FEW people.  They don't want it in for anyone. Period.  Same with editing Rivens.  

I believe many people's arguments against DE's decisions come from serious misunderstandings and misinformation/assumptions made and propagated by big YouTubers/Streamers and "vets"....  Many of these people that just declare things "trash" are making things worse because impressionable new players are "learning" from them.  

Want to be called a Vet?  Wisdom and Knowledge are not the same thing.  Show some RESPECT to the game and devs who created it, if you love it so much, rather than just taking massive craps on everything they try to do to keep it going.

[(XBOX)mickeyjuiceman]

It's not illegal to test things before you release them. But it does help stop you from looking totally foolish when you immediately nerf things after release because youdidn't test them.

[NoneStopGaming]

I doubt they will nerf her, I mean volt can do the same thing she can with a little more...

[rune_me]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)mickeyjuiceman said:

It's not illegal to test things before you release them. But it does help stop you from looking totally foolish when you immediately nerf things after release because youdidn't test them.

They obviously do test them. They even said in the devstream when they showcased the rework, that their testing suggested she might be too powerful for onslaught and she would probably get nerfed.

Besides releasing things early and then adjusting afterwards has always been how DE does things. I can't see how that comes as any surprise to you or anyone else unless you haven't been paying any attention. They are hardly the only software developers who does this. Google's release motto has always been "release early, release often". And that has worked out pretty well for them, I would say, so it's a perfectly viable way of creating software.

[Tanro00]

Didn't they nerf sayrn already in the last patch? And now its getting nerfed again? Just nerf everything Q_Q

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, Tanro00 said:

Didn't they nerf sayrn already in the last patch? And now its getting nerfed again? Just nerf everything Q_Q

They buffed her considerably in the last patch. Too much, so now they are nerfing her.

[Tanro00]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

They buffed her considerably in the last patch. Too much, so now they are nerfing her.

Thats news to me, most of the saryn players I play with are full of Salt and QQ

They gonna be really mad now. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Tanro00

[Campaigner]

Plugging in numbers and seeing the range of effects abilities have with different mods must be hard. I'll do telework for you DE 😛

[(XBOX)mickeyjuiceman]

19 minutes ago, rune_me said:

They obviously do test them. They even said in the devstream when they showcased the rework, that their testing suggested she might be too powerful for onslaught and she would probably get nerfed.

Yeah, that's really great "testing," isn't it? "Testing" doesn't just mean "yeah, we used it and it works."

 

20 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Besides releasing things early and then adjusting afterwards has always been how DE does things

Having always done things in a stupid manner is not a good reason to continue to do so.

And Google doesn't release "broken" software that they have to make major changes to immediately as a matter of course. "Release early, release often" is not the same as "release broken because we didn't test it anything like well enough, then fix (probably)." Bugs happen, but this is design/testing failure which is completely different.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

49 minutes ago, (XB1)mickeyjuiceman said:

Yeah, that's really great "testing," isn't it? "Testing" doesn't just mean "yeah, we used it and it works."

 

Having always done things in a stupid manner is not a good reason to continue to do so.

And Google doesn't release "broken" software that they have to make major changes to immediately as a matter of course. "Release early, release often" is not the same as "release broken because we didn't test it anything like well enough, then fix (probably)." Bugs happen, but this is design/testing failure which is completely different.

Man, you're soooo knowledgable about game development! 😄 Where can I download YOUR successful game?  You must have one, right?  Where did you study coding and game design?  I mean, I'd much rather learn from you and play your game, since you're obviously so much smarter than the award-nominated studio Digital Extremes!  

.....keep your ego in check, mate.

[(XBOX)mickeyjuiceman]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Man, you're soooo knowledgable about game development! 😄 Where can I download YOUR successful game?  You must have one, right?  Where did you study coding and game design?  I mean, I'd much rather learn from you and play your game, since you're obviously so much smarter than the award-nominated studio Digital Extremes!  

.....keep your ego in check, mate.

I guess if you're a fanboi who is not smart enough to attack the argument you make an ad hominem attack on the poster. The idea that only award-nominated (not winning) game studios can point out that testing is very obviously flawed is childish.

[rune_me]

59 minutes ago, (XB1)mickeyjuiceman said:

Yeah, that's really great "testing," isn't it? "Testing" doesn't just mean "yeah, we used it and it works."

Mmm, that is kind of exactly what testing mean, yes.

1 hour ago, (XB1)mickeyjuiceman said:

Having always done things in a stupid manner is not a good reason to continue to do so.

But having always done things that works, has earned you a lot of money and kept your customer base growing steadily, is a damn good reason to keep doing it. I mean, you are still here playing the game, so why on earth should DE have any reason or incentive to do things differently than what they have always done? It clearly works for them. Number of players and profits made is how you measure their success, not number of happy users on a forum. You can rant all you want on a forum, but if you then log into the game and keep playing it, you have given your full approval of the developers methods and you are continuing to support them. You have given them no reason to change things, until you put down the game and refuse to keep playing it.

1 hour ago, (XB1)mickeyjuiceman said:

And Google doesn't release "broken" software that they have to make major changes to immediately as a matter of course. "Release early, release often" is not the same as "release broken because we didn't test it anything like well enough, then fix (probably)."

Neither does DE. The game is fully playable. Saryn is fully playable. Nothing broken about it.

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Bugs happen, but this is design/testing failure which is completely different.

And you really think Google doesn't have design/testing failures? Google Wave, Google Moderator, Google Buzz, Google Video are just a couple of examples on a list of dozens and dozens of Google projects that never made it past early release because google never properly tested them or did any proper market research, but just released them "as is" because they thought the idea of them was cool.

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

It still sucks that we can’t get a finished product 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, (XB1)mickeyjuiceman said:

I guess if you're a fanboi who is not smart enough to attack the argument you make an ad hominem attack on the poster. The idea that only award-nominated (not winning) game studios can point out that testing is very obviously flawed is childish.

So this is how it is?  If you're of the mind that this game, the game that has over 30 MILLION registered users, has been nominated for awards (not WON, but hey...how many game awards you got under YOUR belt? Or Nominations for that matter?) as well as OTHER games they HAVE succeeded with, Warframe aside (Unreal Tournament anyone?), and now has an amazing free-to-play game...is doing a good job, with a few roadbumps here and there (which is NORMAL for ANY business venture)... then I'm just a "fanboi"? 

You're claiming -I- am "not smart enough" but here you are slinging labels because that was YOUR only retort?  Hypocritical at best, dude.

Y'all act like DE "has it out" for the playerbase, and that's just objectively absurd! Forgive me for trying to add some humor to my response 😛 Clearly your sense of humor needs a buff.

[Twilight053]

17 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Can't nerf Spores. It's already useless as it is. ANYTHING they do to Spores would be an improvement. Up to and including removing the ability, heh.

Tell me that you're thinking Spores don't have LoS check... They go through wall dude.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

5 hours ago, Meneliki said:

My opinion is this:

As veteran players, we have a certain 'feel' for the game, a good sense of what is. We are so attuned to this game that we can 'feel' when something is off, even if we enjoy it temporarily.

I am thoroughly enjoying the Saryn Rework... but does it 'feel' right? No. It feels too strong. I haven't actually seen any DE posts about a nerf, but I'm not surprised to hear it. My initial feeling when testing the new Saryn was that a nerf would be incoming. Again, I haven't actually seen any dev posts to suggest that a nerf is inbound but if one is, I'm not surprised. I honestly think that no veteran Warframe player should be surprised. Yeah she's fun, but it's too much.

Just my 0.02

From looking at Pablo's tweet responses what the main focus will be is bringing down her power in onslaught some whilst boosting her strength in lower missions.  Because as is she can AFK in onslaught due to spores being self feeding with their sheer tick damage that ramps super hard here.  But spores don't have a chance to tick up in lower missions to actually hang around because they kill everything too quickly and smother themselves.  No indication if he'll be addressing anything else.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

12 hours ago, RogueVoxel said:

Whats with all these toxic ps4 players lately? 

Also :

I was the one called names without reasons and you call me toxic?

Maybe PC guys think they're too much master race perhaps?

I think you've all forgotten how to read and lost the perception of time, because you don't follow how thread evolves.

You're just good at copy/pasta memes, 

[---The-Operator---]

Ugh I haven't even gotten to try her yet...

[JDxBarracka]

20 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Can't nerf Spores. It's already useless as it is. ANYTHING they do to Spores would be an improvement. Up to and including removing the ability, heh.

This is where Pablo statement regarding saryn is true.

Here spore is utterly useless at low levels. The spores need to spread and increment in damage but things die very quickly that its pointless

However  in onslaught that effect is over powered because not only does it spread to 20- 30 + units, its damage reaches well over 10k per tick. All you need to do is spore one target and kill it then just be spectator and watch the plague devour everything

[CrunchyCloud]

Wow what a bunch of arrogant and clueless nonsense, you're quite the handful.

7 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

The damn "vet" label again... *rolls eyes*    As if DE hadn't been working on and "playing" Warframe, in one form or another, before it even became a publicly accessible game.  But yeah, what do they know 😛

DE's playtime cannot ever hope to compare to the hundreds of thousands of vets that have (each) played for a long time and know the ins and outs of the game simply because they have so much experience with it. A person who plays a game for hundreds of hours obviously has a better understanding of how it feels to play it than even the devs.

7 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

FTFY.  And she can hold a sword or gun.  She's not useless.  If she can kill, she's useful.  If she can hack a console, she's useful.  I really don't understand the misuse of the term "useless" or "trash" in this community.

Cute. Tell me, how exactly is she broken?

Also, if you think that what makes a warframe useful is the ability to hold a gun or a meele weapon and kill enemies with that then you're playing the wrong game. COD and Battlefield are more for you.

7 hours ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Answering/Responding to a request and GRANTING it are two different things, people.   And the whole idea of "Well make it toggleable for people that DO want it!" is dumb. It just is.  Why, if a potential advantage existed in game, would I let you take advantage of it whilst I willingly omitted myself from it?  Like...Why would I dumb my game down?  

Noone WOULD.  So that "solution" does nothing to fix anything. 

If a developer doesn't listen to the people that have played the game for hours on end when they tell him that this or that mechanic is bad/unfun then they're doing something wrong. The sheer volume of experience of indirect player QA is a resource that a good developer should use often.

The toggle idea is good because there are some weird people that like running over every pile of loot just to collect it(in a game with a ridiculous amount of loot to be collected), so it would ensure that they get what they want, and the vast majority of the playerbase gets vacuum while being able to bring their pets and not worry about collecting loot like a garbage man (this makes the game laborious and unfun, shocking i know).

Also, what's with this competitiveness? What "advantage" are you talking about? This isn't a PVP game, again - you're playing the wrong game. Go play R6S or something.

[rune_me]

10 minutes ago, CrunchyCloud said:

If a developer doesn't listen to the people that have played the game for hours on end when they tell him that this or that mechanic is bad/unfun then they're doing something wrong. The sheer volume of experience of indirect player QA is a resource that a good developer should use often.

Which is fine and all. But what do you do when half of those people says "please nerf this" and the other half says "please don't nerf this". Because that is the warframe playerbase in a nutshell. Listening to all the people all the time is impossible for the developers, because all the people wants wildly different things in the game, usually things that cancels out other players wishes. We are not a unified hivemind. This thread and the dozens of others like it, is proof of that.

 

[CrunchyCloud]

19 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Which is fine and all. But what do you do when half of those people says "please nerf this" and the other half says "please don't nerf this". Because that is the warframe playerbase in a nutshell. Listening to all the people all the time is impossible for the developers, because all the people wants wildly different things in the game, usually things that cancels out other players wishes. We are not a unified hivemind. This thread and the dozens of others like it, is proof of that.

 

Yes i agree. In those instances it's up to the developer's best judgement. But we almost never get 50/50 cases as with saryn.

[Leland_Gaunt]

That just shows again that they have no bigger plan/no roadmap when they do stuff like this. How is it possible that barely a week after the 2nd rework, they want to nerf her again? It's absolutely ridiculous, and I'm not just saying that because Saryn was/is/and will be one of my favorite frames no matter what. But I'm a bit concerned about the course of action they are taking.

Why not re-work something "right" in the first place? Why not adress issues that are more urgent than Saryn? Does anybody actually know what the other one is doing at DE? Why not rework frames that actually need it like Wukong, Titania or Khora?

It's just a weird concept for me.

Oh well, I'm glad I haven't even had the possibility to really try the "new" Saryn yet. Won't matter now anyway.