Excalibur Prime Vs. Excalibur Umbra: Why it's an issue and what can be done to fix it

[tripletriple]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)GHOSTBEAST1000 said:

You do know that's never going to happen especially with Warframe's recent boost in popularity which means the last thing DE wants is to make the larger community upset.

They did it before when they buffed excalibur prime and they will do it again. It's the right thing to do.

[(PSN)ZammnZaddy]

Just now, tripletriple said:

They did it before when they buffed excalibur prime and they will do it again. It's the right thing to do.

Excal Prime already got his buff LOL he isn't going to be better than Umbra at this point.

[Almagnus1]

2 hours ago, tripletriple said:

Well, that's your opinion, but people payed good money for exclusive prime items and as it stands prime is the better version of regular gear. 

So you are factually wrong.

Don't care, that was many years ago so stop living in the past dude.

I'll stand with you as long as Exclaibur Prime stays in line with the other primes.  If you start pushing for Excal Prime to be it's on unique snowflake of the warframes, then I'll oppose you and demand that Excal Prime be released to all players as Excal Prime and his gear are the only vaulted primes I do not have.

So, are you going to force me to stand against you, or be reasonable?

[Xaero]

Not a bad idea, actually. I like it.

[Lanadra]

12 hours ago, Aisu9 said:

They are in right to have this toy powerfull than other, THEY PAY FOR THIS and without them warframe shouldn't be playable today !

They paid for an exclusive frame, nowhere were they ever promised said exclusive would also be superior to all other Excaliburs in the future. And that is without once again stressing that Umbra is not ''superior'' to Prime, but an equal side-grade.

They got what they were promised, simple as that.

7 hours ago, tripletriple said:

They did it before when they buffed excalibur prime and they will do it again. It's the right thing to do.

 

 

[Bigamo]

7 hours ago, (PS4)GHOSTBEAST1000 said:

Excal Prime already got his buff LOL he isn't going to be better than Umbra at this point.

As another founder I didn't want him to be BETTER than Umbra, as just wish Excalibur Prime could have SOMETHING going for it, to have a reason to actually use Excalibur Prime for SOMETHING and not to "brag" about it.

 

 At first I was satisfied when Umbra howl was slower to trigger, so I was going for a finishing build in the Prime and a exalted blade build for the Umbra, but the only real advantage the prime had for patched out of Umbra, so now I just use Umbra all the time.

[Bigamo]

If I was responsible for designing Excalibur Umbra I would make it with super buffed slash and dash and the radial javelins skill, and weaker radial blind and exalted blade, it would be interesting.

 

 What was made was not interesting, both are just the same... I miss the old slash dash that was way more useful, I would put it on Umbra.

[Almagnus1]

2 hours ago, Bigamo said:

As another founder I didn't want him to be BETTER than Umbra, as just wish Excalibur Prime could have SOMETHING going for it, to have a reason to actually use Excalibur Prime for SOMETHING and not to "brag" about it.

 At first I was satisfied when Umbra howl was slower to trigger, so I was going for a finishing build in the Prime and a exalted blade build for the Umbra, but the only real advantage the prime had for patched out of Umbra, so now I just use Umbra all the time.

Excal Prime won't get himself killed while you're in spoiler mode because the warframe squad AI makes driveway gravel look like Einstein.

[Peter]

As everyone says all the time. Beta games are like that, they change all the time, when you buy something in Beta you already know that something better can come, the DE will not fail to bring improved content just because 0.1% of players bought something years ago.

Many people over time put money into this game and also helped, is it fair that they did not have access to the same content just because they were not in the right place at the right time?

Excalibur Prime is a collector's item and that's all.

Edited July 20, 2018 by --Peter--

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Umbra is a sidegrade at best. The AI specter is what you expect from other specters, and unless you willingly get rid of his Umbra polarities he can't be modded quite the same as Excal P. Heck you can add the whole scarf debacle in if you want too.

Sure, he does better against the Sentients, but let's be real most people at this point have figured out a way to kill those things no problem.

[Almagnus1]

57 minutes ago, --Peter-- said:

Excalibur Prime is a collector's item and that's all.

That's how I see it, and I'm fine that it stays exclusive to the founders, stays in line with the other Primes, and that gear concessions are made.

For example, Loki Umbra should be able to use Loki Prime's and Loki's cosmetics and Loki Prime should be able to use Loki Umbra's and Loki's cosmetics.  If DE eventually makes an umbra version for all of the warframes, I'm fine with all of the Primes becoming little more than cosmetic packages and MR fodder at that point in time as many have had years to shine.

Excalibur happens to be the first prime that has an umbra, but I'm hoping it won't be the last one as Umbra allows DE to tell origin stories for the warframes.

[limernest]

I'm not sure why Excal P needs to be as powerful as Umbra or better. DE promised exclusivity, and nothing more. They never said that Excal P would be the best version of Excal forever.

Besides, if you really enjoy using Excal P (which is something most of us will never be able to do), nothing about Umbra's release stops you from doing that. I don't see the issue here.

Finally, while I appreciate the sentiment about getting Founders and non-Founders to "get along", as long as there are exclusive Warframes and weapons that no one else can ever get in a game where progression and mastery is tied to collecting as many frames and weapons as possible, the problem will never be solved, and the arguments will continue.

[Glisp]

I leave for two days and find this place erupted into some mild arguments? Geez people, take this topic as adults, grow up.

[EpicBred]

Umbra and prime should definately be more unique and different. A lot of people here say "Grrr youre prime was the best for 5 years, youre just salty because we have a better one now grrr stupid founders". This is not about excalibur prime, its about umbra and prime in general. They are way too similar, and one is clearly better than the other one (even though not alot, but that will change when tau releases in 3 years or something). If umbras for other frames get released, the primes to them would be completely redundant.

I dont have any specific ideas right now, but they should change umbras abilities a bit. More than just changing the animation (which wasnt actually necessary) and slapping that anti sentient bonus on top; they should have changed the mechanics of the ability by a little. Also, they should have changed more than radial blind and exalted blades visuals, which btw dont fit at all. Its very noticable how half a*sed umbra was, DE doesnt like umbra, they just did it to please the community and be done with it to be abke to move on to things they actually care about.

[(PSN)Ragology]

5 minutes ago, EpicBred said:

 

I dont have any specific ideas right now, but they should change umbras abilities a bit. More than just changing the animation (which wasnt actually necessary) and slapping that anti sentient bonus on top; they should have changed the mechanics of the ability by a little. Also, they should have changed more than radial blind and exalted blades visuals, which btw dont fit at all. Its very noticable how half a*sed umbra was, DE doesnt like umbra, they just did it to please the community and be done with it to be abke to move on to things they actually care about.

Yeah some different mechanics could have been nice. 

Excaliburs exailted blade has punch through, right? Maybe the umbra variant could have no punch through but the projectiles were a lot wider or maybe had higher damage (whichever was more balanced.)

 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

On 2018-07-19 at 4:26 PM, Glisp said:

And I even brought that up in the same post and apologized on their behalf. Also, wow the people on this forum are so uncivilized. I figured I was going to have a civil conversation but I'm getting all sorts of jerky responses. Here I am trying to solve a problem and I have people creating more. It's toxic comments like this that really don't help anyone.

This is not a problem. If you think Umbra is better, then use Umbra. If not, use Prime. End of story. 

People always want to make problems where they don't exist.

[Almagnus1]

3 hours ago, Glisp said:

I leave for two days and find this place erupted into some mild arguments? Geez people, take this topic as adults, grow up.

It's the internet, there are no adults here. 

 

 

 

Noob. 

[Almagnus1]

4 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Umbra and prime should definately be more unique and different.

A lot of it really boils down into what DE wants to do with the Umbra and Prime series.

4 hours ago, EpicBred said:

I dont have any specific ideas right now, but they should change umbras abilities a bit. More than just changing the animation (which wasnt actually necessary) and slapping that anti sentient bonus on top; they should have changed the mechanics of the ability by a little.

If they did that, would it still be Excalibur?

[HavocNoir]

En 20/7/2018 a las 18:25, limernest dijo:

I'm not sure why Excal P needs to be as powerful as Umbra or better. DE promised exclusivity, and nothing more. They never said that Excal P would be the best version of Excal forever.

Besides, if you really enjoy using Excal P (which is something most of us will never be able to do), nothing about Umbra's release stops you from doing that. I don't see the issue here.

Finally, while I appreciate the sentiment about getting Founders and non-Founders to "get along", as long as there are exclusive Warframes and weapons that no one else can ever get in a game where progression and mastery is tied to collecting as many frames and weapons as possible, the problem will never be solved, and the arguments will continue.

to be more accurate when they released Excalibur prime they said something along the lines of primes being cool looking frames and that stats would be the same as  a normal frame, and i believe that was the norm till either loki or volt, cant remember the first one who really had different stats compared to the normal one, after that they changed stats for all new primes and i think they did improve the old primes and bumped stats in some, also i do expect that there may be a change from a limited selection of umbras to all frames having umbras since i think there was also a discussion of primes only being just the first batch or so and now we have primes from everything(not compalining about the changes but stating the things i have seen since the beginning ) 😛

[tripletriple]

I think they should just make excal prime have the ability to become unlocked. Have him become umbrafied and add the ability to forma umbra mods and give him a few buffs in his stats.

[(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy]

*sigh* another prime and umbra thread. Prime and Umbra are fine as they are. I don’t think they need any changes. Umbra does have a slight edge over prime, slight. The Umbra mods, his howl, and his sentience when in operator mode. The Umbra mods are a different subject of discussion. DE made no promise that prime was going to be the ultimate Excalibur. Not to mention you’ve enjoyed prime as well as the exclusivity of an upgraded frame that had no legally safe version for everyone else for five years. That’s five years of an ever growing community wanting Excalibur Prime but will never get. Five years of DE putting up with it. And five years of hostile founders attacking and shutting down anyone who talks about Excalibur prime. I’m not saying all founders are like that but I’ve definitely seen such founders. You got what you paid for all those years ago and DE has kept and will still keep that promise. And it’s not like you’re cheated out of Umbra since you have access to him as well; he’s not exclusive to non-founders. At this point, if some founders have an issue with Umbra, thats their problem not DE’s. Umbra is just a way for everyone to be able to use a better Excalibur since that hasn’t been the case since this game’s release in 2013; now everyone can shut up about Excalibur Prime, founders can be at ease, everyone’s happy. I don’t mean to come across as rude or hostile. I’m just sort of annoyed to see that founders, of all people, would now be the ones with issues with either prime and/or umbra. Just had to let this out.

Now your idea is interesting but I think a 50% innate buff is a bit much. Since Excalibur already has a 10% buff in speed and damage to certain swords, prime can have 15% buff to the weapons you mentioned while umbra gets a 15% buff to the others. 

[tripletriple]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)SilverSurferGuy said:

*sigh* another prime and umbra thread. Prime and Umbra are fine as they are. I don’t think they need any changes. Umbra does have a slight edge over prime, slight. The Umbra mods, his howl, and his sentience when in operator mode. The Umbra mods are a different subject of discussion. DE made no promise that prime was going to be the ultimate Excalibur. Not to mention you’ve enjoyed prime as well as the exclusivity of an upgraded frame that had no legally safe version for everyone else for five years. That’s five years of an ever growing community wanting Excalibur Prime but will never get. Five years of DE putting up with it. And five years of hostile founders attacking and shutting down anyone who talks about Excalibur prime. I’m not saying all founders are like that but I’ve definitely seen such founders. You got what you paid for all those years ago and DE has kept and will still keep that promise. And it’s not like you’re cheated out of Umbra since you have access to him as well; he’s not exclusive to non-founders. At this point, if some founders have an issue with Umbra, thats their problem not DE’s. Umbra is just a way for everyone to be able to use a better Excalibur since that hasn’t been the case since this game’s release in 2013; now everyone can shut up about Excalibur Prime, founders can be at ease, everyone’s happy. I don’t mean to come across as rude or hostile. I’m just sort of annoyed to see that founders, of all people, would now be the ones with issues with either prime and/or umbra. Just had to let this out.

Now your idea is interesting but I think a 50% innate buff is a bit much. Since Excalibur already has a 10% buff in speed and damage to certain swords, prime can have 15% buff to the weapons you mentioned while umbra gets a 15% buff to the others. 

Why would founders be at ease when they essentially made a better prime? Why would I have paid good money if they were going to release a better version for free?

Umbra should be an upgrade not a separate warframe.

[----Legacy----]

5 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Why would founders be at ease when they essentially made a better prime? Why would I have paid good money if they were going to release a better version for free?

Umbra should be an upgrade not a separate warframe.

Why would founders be upset when they essentially paid for different looking excalibur with the same stats as the vanilla one? Excal prime was already buffed to match umbra stats even tough DE could simply have left it with +25 armor over vanilla excal and called it a day.

[Sorenxoras]

Honestly i see Excalibur Umbra walking around as just a neat gimmick. I prefer the energy spike i get from a prime, but at the same time there's not too much a reason to go into the void anymore. Neither Umbra or Prime passives are anything special, the only real differences in regular gameplay is the better stats and that Excalibur umbra still takes damage in the event you decide to take a stroll.

If anything is changed i just think that Excalibur Prime's appearance should get a look over. It doesn't really hold up to the other primes as far as aesthetics go. Maybe keep the old one and mail out an updated Prime skin to founders. I dunno.

[Femuru]

yea even if its unbalanced i doubt DE will have a re look at it for a very, very, VERY long time. i also think its actually intentional for umbra to be abit better tho tbh since well its the "fresh new thing" wit his own new stuff thats made for him. i dont see umbra as a thing to make a frame a new playstyle its just making things harder to understand while make me question wats mods are even for anymore. i dont like it but i came to terms umbra is gonna be better, which is why still hoping they stop making anymore past excal. i dont want more umbra, its not needed, ppl complaining everywhere, balance issues and the only reason ill "accept" excal umbra cuz his prime is locked to anyone not a founder that dint buy the pack. tbh still think umbra should of been given to founders while the public get his prime like how every other prime is obtainable.