Digital Extremes, Sumpo Food Holdings Ltd Shares in partnership/Ownership, and the Future of Warframe.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Pretty sure the OP is a bit off on the time frame of reaching MR30, given the amount of affinity to go from 29 to 30 should be pretty close to equal to the amount it took to go from 1 to 29.

[(PSN)Darekai]

24 minutes ago, rune_me said:

So despite your incredible long post and your graphs and what not, this turns out to just be yet another "Warframe is dead" or "When will Warframe die?" post like the dozens and dozens of others? It's been asked a million times before. If you want to know what the community thinks about that, no reason to make a new post, just read one of the 50 or so previous ones from this last year.

Time to bring out the bingo card again, I guess.

thanks for your uplifting post ^_^

if you have the chance to look at the questions and tell us your opinion it would be great.

[(PSN)Darekai]

24 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Pretty sure the OP is a bit off on the time frame of reaching MR30, given the amount of affinity to go from 29 to 30 should be pretty close to equal to the amount it took to go from 1 to 29.

Thanks for the reply. I think i stated it as "roughly", it wasn't a in deep analysis, as that in itself wasn't the main topic of discussion, and the post was already long as it is. Take it as an educated guess ^_^. More importantly take a look at the questions at the end and let me know what your answers would be.

If you would like to refine that number you are more than welcomed. i'd be willing to listen.

[TheGrimCorsair]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

Thanks for the reply. I think i stated it as "roughly", it wasn't a in deep analysis, as that in itself wasn't the main topic of discussion, and the post was already long as it is. Take it as an educated guess ^_^. More importantly take a look at the questions at the end and let me know what your answers would be.

If you would like to refine that number you are more than welcomed. i'd be willing to listen.

Currently the maximum affinity without exclusives is 1,434,613. It will require a total of at least 2,500,000 affinity to clear mastery rank 30. Each Warframe, companion, and Archwing is 6000 affinity at rank 30 while each weapon, archweapon, and sentinel weapon is worth 3000 affinity at rank 30. Map nodes, upon first completion give a predetermined amount of affinity towards rank 30, while each junction node cleared is worth a flat 1000 affinity. That works out to roughly 286,923 per year over the last 5 years. So, assuming that we get that average amount of affinity per year, you're looking at roughly 3-4 years to add enough affinity to ding MR 30.

Of course, that's not making allowances for the frequency and availability of vaulted content, nor trends among players for ranking up, nor whatever direction DE decides to take with the content.

Further, your entire post reeks of thinly veiled "yellow panic" racism, and is thoroughly riddled with poor or baseless assumptions on your part, such as MR30 somehow magically being the end of the line for Warframe, or that "The New War" somehow marks the end of the line for the story of Warframe.

Edited August 14, 2018 by TheGrimCorsair

[(PSN)the-creeperman]

3 hours ago, rune_me said:

So despite your incredible long post and your graphs and what not, this turns out to just be yet another "Warframe is dead" or "When will Warframe die?" post like the dozens and dozens of others?

And yet, unlike the dozens and dozens of others, it's a surprisingly well organized and detailed one. It's obvious the op did some serious research here.

 

On 2018-08-10 at 9:59 PM, (PS4)Darekai said:

To Players

• What do you think of the Company being owned by a Chinese conglomerate? Did you knew about it?
• How long do you think Warframe will continue to operate? Do you see yourself playing warframe 2 years from now?
• Most Gamers cycle in and out of Warframe^[2] syncronized with the development cycle of new updates. what other games do you play when you get bored of warframe?
• Its been 5 years and we haven't used the light , neutral, and dark mechanic, the moon vs the sun vs the ying-yang in a meaningful way. so far it Changes only how events are perceived, but not necessarily the truth behind the matter. Given, that its my interpretation that the New war is the last chapter of Warframe, how do you think it will impact the finally?

---

1. I knew about Leyou a few months after I started playing Warframe because I googled Digital Extremes. I thought it was kinda weird that a chicken meat supplier had any interest in game development, let alone one based in China. I'm not sure how I feel about it really, I haven't put any points in my "business sense" skill tree, so what do I know. 

2. I'd like to think that Warframe will continue to operate for a long long time, but that's really up to the powers that be. If it's still around in 2 years, i'm sure i'll still be playing.

3. My cycle is alittle off from the norm. It's not so much the new content that brings me back, but more like whatever other game i'm finished with at the time. My wife and I will purchase games, milk everything out of them, and then back to Warframe. Although, a few updates ago, I did take an extended butthurt break (Chroma got nerfed and I was salty.. yeah I know, whatever).  

4. I thought this wasn't a thing until the War Within quest (update 19, 2016). Anyway, there has to be some kind of plan behind the light/neutral/dark mechanic, or maybe DE just put it on the back burner until they could figure out what to do with it. If it is the very last chapter, then.. well that would suck, maybe they could use it to figure out which side you'll end up on when they make the game into a full PvP just so they can let the community and the game self-destruct. Last frame standing gets a gold placard with sincerest thanks from DE and some stock options in a Chinese holdings conglomerate.

[(PSN)the-creeperman]

1 hour ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Further, your entire post reeks of thinly veiled "yellow panic" racism, and is thoroughly riddled with poor or baseless assumptions on your part, such as MR30 somehow magically being the end of the line for Warframe, or that "The New War" somehow marks the end of the line for the story of Warframe.

That was totally uncalled for. The original post gives some details of how holding companies operate. The fact that the particular holding company in question is chinese-owned is irrelevant. Shame on you. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by (PS4)the-creeperman

[notlamprey]

Whoa, it's like I fell into a bucket of 2014.... and 2015.

This is a topic I hadn't seen discussed here in some time, let alone in the kind of depth that OP is bringing to the table.

From the perspective of someone who has at least loosely orbited this game for more than 5 years now, I've settled pretty firmly on the considered position that DE themselves are likely being given near-total free reign to do as they see fit with Warframe.

I can't know that for certain, without knowing the composition of the company Board, but the pattern of game development since the initial stock purchases seems to be "Warframe as we had always known it." If there were any significant internal changes, they weren't obvious to me.

1 hour ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

 "yellow panic" racism

I don't see how you're coming to that conclusion; maybe some context will be helpful.

Chinese businesses have been really rushing to buy stakes in foreign companies, because they wish to hedge their bets in the event of government takeovers. For a Chinese business, it's simply smart to invest in businesses that have a greater degree of freedom from state regulation and oversight.

Looking down the other end of the scope, it's understandable that folks in Nation A would get nervous that much of their domestic business interests come to be owned by people from Nation B. People from different countries often operate according to wildly different value systems, after all. To me, that doesn't read as "racism."

[Evanescent]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

Thanks for the Full post quote Silverback73 ^_^.

Just to clarify your comment, the China-Build is Controlled by Perfect World, [PW], which is a Chinese company. This Is because they purchased 3% of the company, and, specified that they also wanted that licencing control in china as part of their portion of the Deal. I must clarify though that the rest of your comment is not necessarily correct.

[LTHL] is another Chinese holdings company, and DE is completely owned by this company. if you could read a the original post again, there are a few bits in there were it makes it clear that: As a Holdings company, especially one with very little experience on game development to say the least, is only interested in the diversification of their funds.

[DE]  as a subsidiary has "Creative Control", For the same reason, children under 18, have "creative Control of their lives" as long as that control doesn't go beyond their parents desires. just like the next poster expressed in an interesting way.

the subject of this post was not to reiterate who owns what or when it happened. lets be clear on this:

Warframe is a property of Digital extremes, which in turn is a property of [LTHL].  in a different set of terms

Its now a Chinese Company that has Canadian employees.

The point of this post for lack of a better term is this "In this world of reality, even Golden eggs have a shelf life, and This golden egg called warframe, its Natural shelf life is near its end of life, this is a normal process. the discussion is, how soon will this happen. and what will the future of the company be once this proverbial ticking clock reaches zero.

 

P.S. Holding Companies are notorious for selling holdings when they are no longer profitable, sometimes liquidation sales. (like garage sales of sorts).

The consistent leap in logic you are making is that warframe is near the end of its shelf life. I am interested in the exact reasons why, aside from your theory is that the new war is the conclusion to warframe's story.

DE has only started on making cinematic quests, open zones and various other new technologies. These do not communicate a winding down for me.

On the player side, warframe is getting bigger and bigger with no signs of slowing down. As a live service your aim is to keep it going as long as you can.

Aside from speculating and leaps in logic I'm not getting much else from your post. I appreciate the legal dissection, but that's it.

[kyori]

On 2018-08-11 at 9:59 AM, (PS4)Darekai said:

What do you think of the Company being owned by a Chinese conglomerate?

Given that many people of the world hates China n her Chinese, I guess those players will be triggered n get into depression knowing this truth lol

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Tl;dr go back to farming.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

3 часа назад, kyori сказал:

Given that many people of the world hates China n her Chinese, I guess those players will be triggered n get into depression knowing this truth lol

No u

[FlusteredFerret]

WTF?

This is a gaming forum...not a finance / business forum.

I'm happy to play Warframe as long as the servers stay up. If DE fold, that will be a sad day for me...but I'll just move on to other games. WF isn't the only game I play, as it is.

 

[Vox_Preliator]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

P.S. Holding Companies are notorious for selling holdings when they are no longer profitable, sometimes liquidation sales. (like garage sales of sorts).

Wow, it's almost like you are desperately looking for reasons to panic when none exist.

[kyori]

1 hour ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

No u

Oh I'm glad you are not one of those who looked down on china n her chinese andfelt degraded if associated with them.

I am from the east, so your provoking reply has no effect lol. Bye

Edited August 14, 2018 by kyori

[FlusteredFerret]

6 hours ago, kyori said:

Given that many people of the world hates China n her Chinese, I guess those players will be triggered n get into depression knowing this truth lol

I don't think they hate China in general...just the oppressive, totalitarian regime. Same with Russia, Iran, N Korea etc. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

Thanks for the Full post quote Silverback73 ^_^.

Just to clarify your comment, the China-Build is Controlled by Perfect World, [PW], which is a Chinese company. This Is because they purchased 3% of the company, and, specified that they also wanted that licencing control in china as part of their portion of the Deal. I must clarify though that the rest of your comment is not necessarily correct.

[LTHL] is another Chinese holdings company, and DE is completely owned by this company. if you could read a the original post again, there are a few bits in there were it makes it clear that: As a Holdings company, especially one with very little experience on game development to say the least, is only interested in the diversification of their funds.

[DE]  as a subsidiary has "Creative Control", For the same reason, children under 18, have "creative Control of their lives" as long as that control doesn't go beyond their parents desires. just like the next poster expressed in an interesting way.

the subject of this post was not to reiterate who owns what or when it happened. lets be clear on this:

Warframe is a property of Digital extremes, which in turn is a property of [LTHL].  in a different set of terms

Its now a Chinese Company that has Canadian employees.

The point of this post for lack of a better term is this "In this world of reality, even Golden eggs have a shelf life, and This golden egg called warframe, its Natural shelf life is near its end of life, this is a normal process. the discussion is, how soon will this happen. and what will the future of the company be once this proverbial ticking clock reaches zero.

 

P.S. Holding Companies are notorious for selling holdings when they are no longer profitable, sometimes liquidation sales. (like garage sales of sorts).

Every year this “duck” 😆 finds ways to lay Golden eggs with new designs that keep it in demand.

I think, OP, that you need to examine the relationship as a financial property vs creative when it comes to your response.  The parent company certainly can threaten to shut them down if financial obligations aren’t met, but DE can effectively tell them to “stay in their lane” if the parent company decides they want to change the game itself, say by going full-out predatory “DESTINY-LOOT-BOX” to make more money. 

This may, in fact, be a gray area, but when parents are at war, baby duck suffers so a nuclear option of legally going head-to-head is not smart.

Edited August 14, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)Darekai]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

This may, in fact, be a gray area, but when parents are at war, baby duck suffers so a nuclear option of legally going head-to-head is not smart.

thanks for your response, ^_^. take a quick look at the questions at the end, id like to year your opinion on them. 

[(PSN)Darekai]

Please keep the discussion Civil. its only just that a discussion.

[babywrath]

What do you think of the Company being owned by a Chinese conglomerate? Did you knew about it?

• lol, who cares. DE calls the shots and that's all that matters. 

How long do you think Warframe will continue to operate? Do you see yourself playing warframe 2 years from now?

• I haven't the slightest on when they will continue to operate but based on their recent growth and the fact that they have their own TennoCon, i'd they they are slotted for at least another three years if management doesn't cut their losses. 
• I definitely will still be playing Warframe while they are still up and about. I play for exactly 3 months per year and have been doing so since 2013. I may not be the most loyal gamer but I do always come back. My loyalty for Grand Chase since it started till the day it ended never faded.  

Most Gamers cycle in and out of Warframe^[2] syncronized with the development cycle of new updates. what other games do you play when you get bored of warframe?

• I play life son. I'm busy most of the year and can only ever afford a few months of gaming for warframe.
• For realz though, i don't currently play any other game as much as I have played warframe. Not even close. 

Its been 5 years and we haven't used the light , neutral, and dark mechanic, the moon vs the sun vs the ying-yang in a meaningful way. so far it Changes only how events are perceived, but not necessarily the truth behind the matter. Given, that its my interpretation that the New war is the last chapter of Warframe, how do you think it will impact the finally?

• Hardcore Neutral. Dunno, don't care. DE will think of something. 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

IIRC we had amazing eternals and a few other games in development 

i know TAE is RIP, and the 8bit i havent heard anymore news on, its possible more games we /are in dev but at this time with the resources available it seems they are focused on expanding the existing game

[(PSN)Darekai]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

IIRC we had amazing eternals and a few other games in development 

i know TAE is RIP, and the 8bit i havent heard anymore news on, its possible more games we /are in dev but at this time with the resources available it seems they are focused on expanding the existing game

thanks for the insight ^_^

[Knowmad762]

On 2018-08-10 at 7:59 PM, (PS4)Darekai said:

To Players

• What do you think of the Company being owned by a Chinese conglomerate? Did you knew about it?
• How long do you think Warframe will continue to operate? Do you see yourself playing warframe 2 years from now?
• Most Gamers cycle in and out of Warframe^[2] syncronized with the development cycle of new updates. what other games do you play when you get bored of warframe?
• Its been 5 years and we haven't used the light , neutral, and dark mechanic, the moon vs the sun vs the ying-yang in a meaningful way. so far it Changes only how events are perceived, but not necessarily the truth behind the matter. Given, that its my interpretation that the New war is the last chapter of Warframe, how do you think it will impact the finally?

An unexpected and interesting read in these forums.

• Knew about it. A concern, but not a huge one. Leyou seems to give DE an unusual amount of autonomy, but ultimately nothing is stopping Leyou from forcing DE to do things that may harm Warframe. For a much worse example of a similar relationship, look to another well respected Canadian development studio called Bioware and the struggles they have had over the years with their parent company, the currently much hated EA.
• I don't see why 10 or even 15 years is impossible. You seem to compare Warframe to an Assasin's Creed or some such, and I would compare it more to World of Warcraft. WoW has been profitable for almost three times longer than Warframe, and that is with a far more aggressive monetization model. Warframe 2 will likely never be a thing, the same way World of Warcraft 2 was never really considered.
• This seems random and totally unrelated to the rest of the discussion.
• I disagree vehemently. You seem to think that the New War will be a single, closed ended quest, such as the Sacrifice was. I think it could be an overarching umbrella, with several episodic quests as the New War goes through various stages. This could extend the New War for years. And if/when the New War concludes, there is no reason that the story cannot continue. Perhaps a new antagonist has appeared while the Tenno were totally focused on the chaos of the New War. And there really is no reason that a player's MR has to cap at 30, that is just the assumption. Although it is more likely that they would build a new progression system on top, the same way that once a weapon hits max rank it moves to a second progression system by now gaining Focus instead of Mastery.

Think about it from Leyou's perspective. As you said, they are a holding company, they do not care at all if Warframe's artistic lore is good, bad, or totally bloody nonsensical; they look at the numbers. With the PoE expansion, and now the Fortuna announcement, player counts in Warframe are higher than they have been in it's entire history. To even consider shutting it down now would be a horrible business decision. It is in their best financial interest to continue the successful Warframe IP, rather than sink money and resources into a new IP that may or may not be successful. This is reinforced by DE stopping production of their other IPs, and funneling those resources back into Warframe, once they saw how wildly sucessful the PoE expansion was.

[Twilight053]

I don't know why this topic is brought up now. DE has been majority owned by these companies for at least 3 years, as far back as Update 16. There has not been a decline in game quality for the past few years and in fact birthed some of the best gameplay updates Warframe have ever seen (Update 17 and 18). 

No, I'm not worried with Warframe's future. This game has the potential to age as long as WoW.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Twilight053

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

21 hours ago, (PS4)Darekai said:

thanks for the insight ^_^

np just stating what i know .w .