SneakyErvin

That is simply due to how math works, which has nothing to do with language itself. Nerf and buff however is tied to language and came about to describe two different actions. Or are we also going to claim that a nerf in a game refers to an imaginary space cow aswell as a kids toy, and buff refers to people with a specific interest or outstanding physique even though we are talking about things specifically tied to a game? Which at the same time means buff also refers to a kids toy and an imaginary space cow. It isnt though, since enemies still have the exact same eHP and mechanics that might circumvent that eHP to everything else. What has happened is the skill having recieved a nerf, which is very different since it only affects that specific skill. The enemies are still 100% the same as before. And the whole point of the meaning behind the words buff and nerf is that the affected target does change directly. So if you nerf a weapon the weapon is nerfed but the enemy is not buffed since nothing about the enemy changes, and it is the same the other way around. Just as if you want to get weapons closer, the nerfed weapon got nerfed but the untouched weapon did not get buffed, it stayed the same. Not really what I'm refering to. I'm refering to you nerf A, buff B to achieve C instead of just targetting C directly without the risk to screw something unrelated up with A and B on your way to C. Yes, because the two arent mutually exclusive. One can recognize which would be easier, that doesnt mean that one thinks it is automatically a good idea. While individual changes over time will result in things practically never getting fully "fixed", doing full reworks would have way too much impact on the game overall. We can see it in plenty of other games that does sweeping changes, it halts most other development, it is a risk aswell regarding how well it will be recieved in the end, it may turn out worse etc. WoW dropped in numbers several times over due to their massive talent tree changes, another game died because it took them a year or so to rework everything which led to barely any new content and bleeding players. And since WF is a F2P they rely on content releases over reworks in order to keep players. That isnt at all what I refer to or asked. Look at the example I provided in connection to the question. But I guess removing the context is your jig. You say "terrible in comparison", in comparison to what on the Soma P? Increase damage output on the Dera and Braton and I'd still use the Soma P due to fire rate, mag size etc. Unless you want to remove all the things that make the weapons unique. The appeal isnt rooted in the vertical. You also still ignore the multitude of bland and generic weapons. But I didnt use it forever. I just happened to skip some other generic full auto weapons. You also make it sound like there is a weapon called Kuva since you treat them all as a singular. Nevermind that a player might use several different Kuva and Tenet weapons, and eventually also replace them by something. I personally dont use them anymore. I'm using old weapons now with mechanics that I prefer, since they recieved mechanical updates and not just blanket stat buffs. Alrighty then!

I still have a hard time seeing what it is the Star Chart allows you that SP doesnt. And no one has narrowed the bands aside from you when you said Star Chart allows more options than SP, since the Star Chart is that narrow. You havent provided any unique playstyle that SC allows that SP doesnt, you have just provided run of the mill damage building. And no, having spare capacity and mod slots does not equal a playstyle, since it doesnt do anything aside from alter your power. Things still play the same in the mission. And if you are thinking of PT and other types of stats, those work in SP aswell and are even promoted on some weapon that make use of those stats. So what unique thing is it you simply cant use in SP? Those other games also have ghost town low level content, which is far worse than a new player swooshing through missions due to others. And those other games also tend to have forced co-op at the same time, which is the reason for those ghost town content pieces. WF is fully soloable. We are also nearly 100% spared from ghost town content thanks to high levels and low levels being able to play together at the snap of a finger.

With the introduction of Melee Influence I gotta say that I enjoy most melee aslong as they have acceptable crit and/or status. I have some slight issues being able to like Tonfas due to lacking a slide attack, though that could be a Sovereign Outcast issue, so I should probably try some other stance. But Influence had made it go as far as me at times using a 2h Nikana in a non-HA build. 😲 Bo Prime, Sancti Magistar and Nami Solo are really nice though with their incarnon forms. And any weapon with multi-hit stance combos are monsters now. And with ranged weapons I enjoy Boar, Strun, Braton, Dual Toxocyst and Burston Incarnon aswell as the Grimoire. I was hoping that I'd like Angstrum Incarnon, but the incarnon mode just has something about it that makes it feel off. Not sure what it is. But yeah mostly I've just fallen involve with using a bunch of different melee again.

Because you said that Star Chart allows you more freedom to build, or full freedom iirc while SP doesnt. Yet we sit here with butt nekkid frames and weapons doing content 5 levels from the star chart max. Leaving very little room to build for what you claimed you want, engaging content. SP on the otherhand can be as engaging or trivial as you like. And Lich hunting and Arbitrations fall off as "build for the content" in public, since you should be prepared because you dont know what you'll face and it is only respectful to be ready to make use of that arbi hour, or be able to avoid 1HKing the whole group around a viral/rad lich etc. Never let your operative buddies kill? You inconsiderate poopoo face.

Nope no one said a targetted nerf or buff can only take one step at a time. But a nerf is a nerf and a buff is a buff, hence why the different words and their definitions exsist. AoE radius nerf = targetted intended as a nerf, ammo economy = targetted nerf to AoE again. No one said a thing is only allowed to be nerfed once. What I'm saying is that taking several steps to achieve something similar is not the same as take less steps to achieve the actual goal. Oh and with your whole buff is nerf, nerf is buff thing. Do you mean that the upcoming Eclipse nerf for helminth is an enemy buff? It would affect players quite obviously, but it wouldnt affect other items. Those items would still act the same as they did versus the enemies if used. It doesnt make those items stronger or weaker and it doesnt make the enemies stronger or weaker either. It would make the items hit by the nerf weaker, or stronger if you buff them. That would still only apply when those items are used. Then you arent talking about nerfs or buffs, you are talking about full blown reworks or rebalances of systems. And why is everything supposed to be affected? That just sounds like you are out of touch with the game. Why does an infested need to get weaker at the same time as a Grineer? Why does a Grineer need to get stronger at the same time as an infested? Which are scenarios that would occur if you aim with a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel, or to put it in more WF-ish terms, when you apply a Zarr to a Vectis problem. The important part is that it gives a sense of actual progression. And even though I pointed it out already you either ignored it or missed it. DE removing the MR restriction from primes is because it was barely a third of the primes that had it. They likely relized years ago that since frames arent automatically an upgrade over a nother there is no need to add MR to the Primes, hence why a small part had MR tied to them to begin with. If all primes had an MR tied to them when they removed the MR for those 11(?) I wouldnt have seen your point in this. But that isnt the case. But warframes arent class based. I'm talking about actual weapon classes, you know shotgun, beam weapon, assault rifle, sniper, bow, dual pistol, dual axes, heavy blades etc. It isnt about "classes", it is about classes. We have too many full auto dual pistols that does exactly the same thing as another, same with sniper rigles, assault rifles, burst weapon and so on. Hence why I've never used the Dera or Braton, because there are too many similar weapons at each MR that just arent unique enough to use. And since I started out with Soma Prime from day 1 there was no reason to pick up a full auto weapon with worse stats since I wasnt chasing MR. And somewhere along the line I grabbed the Dera variant from invasions (thats the place right?) due to it being a gated weapon. Which reduced my need further to pick up the regular version since I had tried the mechanics of it with a better version already. But again, we have too many weapons that are the same (horizontal). Also, picking up and following a vertical system to the point is also not something common as you progress. It's like GW2, I had a friend that replced his weapons each 5 levels or so with rares, the rest of us just followed the natural progression as we went on towards the max level, saving our gold so we could upgrade to the better gear then. So even if something is vertical and there are upgrade options constantly available you can still skip tiers or stay at tiers, and still sense/use the progression. Horizontal can turn very dull, since you might go grab that perfect weapon at level 10 and then use it forever and never replace it even if you are in the endgame. Like I mentioned outriders. I got my hands on my weapon perks there very early, I then never used anything else really, which happened with each and every class in the game. After getting those perks I just threw them on whatever weapon I got my hands on of the right class and with the highest stats and never looked at anything else. If I got a lego it just ment that I'd use that perk together with whatever lego perk was on the weapon I used without really caring what it was. Dull. It isnt about their raw power, it is about their trash mechanics compared to the others even if they all share being AoE. The power in those primarily used comes in their mechanics, how they inflict their AoE damage. It wouldnt matter how much they'd buff Penta stats, it would still be cursed with a horrible mechanic. And the fun thing is that Torid used to be a meta weapon at one point earlier aswell, but then Saryn got reworked. And now with Torid, while the cloud actually benefitted from increased stats, it isnt something that would increase Torid use, since the cloud is still just a utility that now can deal damage, but nowhere near the levels of those with other mechanics. The incarnon mode is what makes Torid shine, the cloud is still fairly bad due to how it work in comparison to standard AoE weapons. There is no such thing as a perfectly horizontal system since you trade power in one place for power in another. There will always be a pyramid for the stats themselves even if damage is equal on a weapon. RoF, crit, slash, status, multishot etc. would decide the new power paradigm even if sheet dps is identical. Simply because some stats achieve things that others wont, even if they arent direct power improvements. A weapon with favorable slash and puncture would see more use than a weapon that favors impact for instance. And that is before unique mechanics are included. And the same applies to a vertical system, you wont achieve a perfect one. Since there is always the potential for lower items to have an effect that pushes them beyond the point of the highest item in progress. I've had this happen in several vertical games where I've had below top tier items as BiS due to unique mechanics they provide. Like how many players ran around with Thunderfury in WoW (a game as linear and vertical as it can get) long long long after new tiers had been released since it had such an amazing effect. Which isnt very odd since there is a handful of frames compared to the amount of weapons we have access to. They are also more specific based on game modes played while weapons are often the same no matter what mission you intend to run. Not only that, but the graph also shows combined usage of frames while you sit and argue that variant weapons should be brought closer. Treating current lowly used base forms as unique weapons instead of combining the overall use of the weapon. That means it "holds up" to your "fast paced" view on things. And SP should be a pinata, since we are in the end killing hordes of trash for the most part. Want to make it slower? Add some interesting enemies then, then slow down the uninteresting encounters. And no, a ceiling nerf wouldnt really impact it, since we are not in the need of the ceiling for a good while in SP. We 1HK things quite far in, so a reduction in that power would just mean we'd hit the end of the 1HK point earlier while leaving anything below that unaffected really. Lets say you deal 5 million damage, and up to 1 hour the most eHP an enemy has is 1 million. That means you are 1HKing enemies well beyond 1h. Which means there is room to nerf the ceiling down to 1 million damage since it still means people will 1HK their way to the 1h mark. Obviously it would be a bit more complicated than that, but in essence that is what could be achieved. It would effect regular gameplay really, since there is no penalty to restart after 1 hour. Could be a slight inconveniance in modes like dsiruption. This would then give DE some concrete damage output to work with for future content. Is it likely they can actually pull off such adjustments, no, probably not since they are just too far into the mess after leaving it unchecked and unmitigated for way too many years. They are more likely at a point where full system reworks would be easier and less time consuming, and with fewer risks of screwing things up in one end as they try to fix another. Yeah that wont target the ceiling, since you'll hit everything if you target weapon scaling overall. The outliers need to be brought inline really, then if they want to see more weapons further up they can buff those in individual need, either by increasing their stats or giving us incarnons. And nerfing enemy scaling wouldnt help DE with future content really, it isnt that enemies are current hard, the few tough targets we face are currently at a decently good spot. Heck, people still claim stripping is mandatory, meaning that a nerf of weapons that circumvent that would be a good start while leaving enemies alone. If anything, some mobs could likely use a buff instead. Yeah I'm not really interested in thread jumping to keep on track in a different one.

Not even that is accurate. Unless by "based gamers" you refer to people that need medication to make up for a lack of that substance. Since those are the people that would likely have a low attention span and twitchy nature, making it likely for them to connect two things that arent actually similar. Since they see one or two things and practically forget or fail to pick up on the rest due to lack of attention and focus. And if you refer to them having it naturally to a point where they literally panic over a game or two games, they would likely not function at all in real life. Since the substance you bring up is the "deer in the headlights" substance, but in humans it brings out self survival instincts that help us focus and better handle a critical situation. So not really sure whom you refer to. Since now it looks like you are bashing people with an actual disorder. 🤷‍♂️ And seeing enemies in regular people? That's even crazy levels of crazy for me. 👀 Na. That would imply I buy what they are selling. And believe me, I wouldnt even take it for free or steal it.

The fun thing is that the complaining meta players dont realize the buff they are potentially getting. Nourish itself will be great for energy management even with a nerf to that specific part of the skill. Nourish will be even better as a viral applicator if that part of the skill gets nerfed aswell. Since just as it is with everything else, viral is a stat you preferably want the right weighting for. So the lower it is on Nourish the better, since we really only need it to proc reliable, since it cant go beyond 10 stacks anyways. This means for frames that invest alot into strength, a reduction to the viral stat will be a huge buff for their status proccing, and for others a minor buff. But it seems like people are living in the pre-Grendel rework mindset, when Nourish was a seperate uncombinable self status checking damage buff. That went the way of the dodo with the rework when it got turned into viral. Now it is a status that competes with all your other statuses you've modded for. I cant count the times I've actually thought "man it would be nice with a lower Nourish version" or "wish I could make Nourish unaffected by strength".

I just want to point out that this comment makes no sense. I guess you aimed to take a jab at a specific part of the population considering the specific words used, however that doesnt make any sense in reality. If this was a testosterone based occurance it wouldnt be "testosterone based gamers", it would be "gamers with a testosterone deficiency", since it is lowered testosterone that actually leads to an increased state of aggression, anger and thoughts of disappointment and depression, in addition to physical complications. If you are seeking something similar that takes the shape of this but in excess it would be cortisol. Common misconception though, and wide spread in this day and age due to "political" agendas. Too me it is really just misandry and no better than misogony. Since isnt the goal equality without prejudism?

In content with alot of enemies it's crazy for energy and healing, so any full group endless and all SP endless will easily make it perform better than disp. Just need enough range and/or strength to either increase targets hit or the drop chance on each enemy hit.

The Nova skill too, but you have no way to maintain it since you cant utilize the beneficial augment due to not having access to Molecular Prime. Plus it needs insane amounts of duration to reach the DR cap. You can slot the other augment so you can discharge and recast it, but it drops down from max DR very quickly by simply being in proximity to mobs. So not really viable. Then for armor there is Wukong and Valkyr too. With Wukong being a flat increase so works for low armor frames too, while War Cry requires decent base armor to be worthwhile. You can use Fractured Blast too together with Health Conversion for some nice chunks of easily maintainable armor based DR, I do so on Dagath.

It's in order to be inclusive and not discrimatory towards Tea. If it refered to itself as coffee creamer it might end up getting canceled. Not easy being a coff... I mean creamer these days. Sadly there is a real life incident similar to that. Our old classic ice cream stick here called Nogger, a chocolate covered vanilla stick with a creamy nougat core went through something similar to that. Apparently the name Nogger wasnt/isnt a problem, but when they make a licorice version named Nogger Black it was too much for the "elite", at which point the version called Black was canceled and removed. Nogger however still exsists. You know what the most hilarious and backwards part is? The same ice cream company (GB) also has an ice cream named The 88 (88:an in swedish). Sweden + consistancy = we are not familiar with eachother.

Considering we are facing the murmur and that they are about as threatening as a infested it shouldnt really matter what picks we get. There are easy solutions to get around things no matter the pick you get aslong as you own them. Set up each weapon with a radiation config, this should cover potential defense missions to keep the enemies busy fighting their own. Set up each frame with a Helminth config that will benefit you versus the murmur. It shouldnt really be harder than that unless the other modifications to the run screw that up in some way. Which would be fun since I love PoE maps and Marvel Heroes Danger Chips.

But I dont talk about 30-ish content. I'm talking about how easy Grendel content was when we had to do it versus level 40 mobs without mods or access to any frame released after Grendel (quite obviously heh). Meaning the majority of the Star Chart is below that level, with some planets capping out at that level or goes 5 levels beyond that. So I'm more wondering what point there is to limit your build options when there is a whole mode available that lets you build exactly how you want while brining better engagement options at the same time while playing on the same nodes? And who are you to decide what overbuilding is? Like I said, I want to be able to go longer than a few rotations when I enter an endless, so I come prepared for that. And what is the difference if I build to kill a capture target with 1 shot in a downgraded build or one where he is 1 shot all the same with a high level build? No one else gets to touch him in either case. Funny thing. I did some syndicate missions today solo. It made me think of your argonak build and idea of "modding for the content", which would have likely resulted in you getting disrupted and treated in an inconsiderate manner by syndicate operatives in those missions. I guess uhm DE overbuilt for their own missions. 😲 Curse those damn elitist operatives for not considering their PuG team mate(s) when making their builds! I'm uh an optimist. Also it is called coffee cake because it is supposed to be served with coffee. Prolly some brit mumbo-jumbo invention since they have other cakes served with tea iirc. If you want a coffee cake with coffee in you could make a mocca coffee cake instead of chocolate, vanilla or what type it is you yum-yum on currently. It's like we have "kaffe bröd" here, which practically means coffee bread, which is just whatever bun type you do and serve with coffee. Cinnamon buns are a type of "kaffe bröd" here, so are buns filled with pistachio(sp?) or nut creame or some other spice instead of cinnamon. It doesnt have to be buns either, making braided bread is also popular. Heck, we even call small cookie type things "kaffe bröd". And here I thought americans were happy to use the same word for way too many things!

I already covered this. It does not end up being the same, since you now took more steps than a targeted buff or nerf would require. Which means they are not the same. It would also end up affecting everything else that isnt supposed to be affected. The only situation where a nerf can be a buff are examples like Nourish, where a nerf to the viral value would infact be a buff in several builds since it reduces viral weighting. Yet you only show 3 non-endless gifs? How does it hold up in endless SP? How fast paced is it then? Uhm yes? I think that is quite obvious since that is what the developers saw fit and what ended up as part of the game, and has been part of the game now for several years. I'm not really sure what you are trying to say, or what you point is. MR = Easy and grants X power as seen fit by devs. Liches/Sisters = "Harder" than MR and grants X power as seen fit by devs to reflect that they are "harder" than MR tests. Does it mean either is hard? Uhm no? But it is still part of DEs power progression and one system is more demanding than the other even if not hard. Not really a hard concept to grasp. And that matters how exactly? Oh lol, did you even read the notes you quoted? There were only 11 prime frames tied to a mastery rank to begin with, so it isnt DE removing the MR between normal and primes, they simply removed the MR between primes. And the reason frames dont have an MR is because like I've said they are based on the right tool for the job approach, where frames arent supposed to be more powerful than another. This does not apply to weapons outside of their classes, since there are too many "same" weapons within each class. So instead there is an incentive to use them by making some more powerful than others in a more classical "vertical" setup within each class. Now if all weapons were like frames and we had far fewer of them aswell MR could be removed since it would no longer be about power, but the task at hand. But it isnt realistic to make a weapon stand out like a frame, since they are just weapons. But it is true, since what makes those weapons stand out is not rooted in their stats, but in their actual game changing perks and mechanics. That is horizontal progression. We can use Bramma, Probo Cernos, Tonkor, Tetra, Zarr or Envoy and get roughly the same return in raw power as you say. What makes them and other picks the top is their mechanics i.e access to AoE. And it is for the most part a horizontal game, we simply have too many weapon that does the same, so the slightly more powerful version will get picked. This would stay the same even if it was fully horizontal, since at that point the most to least used would be based on damage spread, status vs crit, fire rate vs damage per shot, burst vs auto vs single and so on. And the usage stats have nothing to do with if it is horizontal or not. It would be the same in a fully horizontal system if some weapons have a more appealing effect etc. Which is still horizontal progression. The game already shows that with frames that are not vertical in progression since they are all based on what their abilities do in the content you face. Yet they end up showing the same heat map pattern as weapons that you claim are mainly vertical. So do you suddenly imply frames are now vertical too? Yeah, Nekros Prime sure is a massive power house compared to Protea, Styanax, Baruuk or Kullervo... and Frost Prime is clearly far far weaker than Revenant or Wukong... But we dont, since you seem to want to change other things in other ways. Because you still havent really revealed exactly what you want at all. I want the ceiling to be targetted specifically, likely best done by nerfing individual weapons. And as I mentioned in another thread, adding LoS to all AoE would also be a good start.

I think Metallica made a song about Inaros, since it really describes what happens if Inaros gets downed "exit light, enter night, take my hand, we're off to never-never land". With the rework I guess it will be more Cannibal Corpse and "Sanded Faceless". ❔

It's not about shutting down criticism. It's simply about revealing and talking about what they actually know and revealing and talking about what they dont know when they say it. I'm 100% getting behind people saying how they felt regarding the Eclipse damage formula change/new value even if I dont agree with the opinion, since it was about something known and relevant. And obviously DE gets alot of appriciation, no one says otherwise, it just happens to be that the loud minority uses everything in a negative way when they get their hands on it, like RJ transparency, which some content creators even fed on through click bait content. Acting as if the info regarding the content way ahead of releases wasnt a thing, acting surprised and straight up deregatory towards DE. So it isnt a shocker that DE have gone more silent after that. Prior to that they talked about everything, too much at times. But when even relevant info gets willingly ignored I'd do the same and cut back on talking about releases or planned changes until they are a reality. I think I'd rather be a grateful peasant than an exaggerating doom and gloomer. Because the riot over this change is uhm rather silly since most people would barely notice a difference, and if they did it would likely be in the positive due to the simple change over to a toggle instead of a random light based buff. And most wouldnt notice it at all since they dont run any content where a change from final to base multiplier would matter. And as @Voltage(I think) pointed out, the change to from final to base would be more healthy for the game.

My suggestion is to report those that make us of the exploit if you can confirm it since going out of bounds is never intended. DE really needs to add LoS to all AoE. Yeah yeah yeah Khora's whip bugs out, but it also happens so rarely that it is barely even an issue.

As @(PSN)GEN-Son_17points out, that has burned them previously. Empyrean still gets flak for that and when people point out "DE told us it would be buggy and released to get help from the community" people go "no they didnt" even though they did. So for me, waiting until they have something concrete to inform us with is better, less chance for people to misinterpret, exaggerate or conveniantly forget as agendas change. Heck, we just had a massive misconception in the thread regarding the upcoming game mode, where apparently the most recent info was not the most relevant or up to date according to one specific person. With a bunch of made up ideas of what can and cannot be changed this close to release etc. Then funnily enough we have this thread, giving criticism towards a thing that requires far wider changes than that other thing, followed by an official thread that informs us that these far wider changes have been made. And here I thought according to that other specific person that we were waaay too close to patch day for such big changes to occur. Yep yep, we're all there at times. But what can we do? We are in the end just stupid humans that love drama, over reactions and exaggeration. We are afterall a race of beings that argue with eachother over imaginary friends, some even taking it further than that. I'm fine with them being transparent when they have something real to reveal. Before that, better for them to stay quiet. Though lol, in some cases them being transparent regarding certain things ahead of time would be smart, like *cough*heirlooms*cough* and *cough*resurgence*cough*. When DE does something doodoo similar to a previous DE doodoo I feel like John Connor in Terminator 2 asking Arny "Are we learning yet?". At which point I imagine DE targetting me with either (or both) of two other Arny incarnations from that movie, A: The fake oblivious smile(s) from the directors cut at the desert burger bar, or B: "Shut up, $&*^wad..." when John teaches him to combine slang words.

Yeah Aeolak is the name. It's probably a warped Gotva Prime since the Thrax are supposedly tainted or manifested Grineer. Which could mean that there is no normal version of the Gotva used by the Grineer. Unless Aeolak isnt actually warped and just the Grineer normal version of the Gotva, and happens to be used by the Thrax since it is based on a Grineer. And yeah I think we wont get many prime versions of grineer and corpus weapons. I think this is partly due to say Grineer weapons just being the Grineer version of a Prime that the tenno have a Tenno version of. So while we wont get a Gorgon Prime, we have Tenora and Tenora Prime, which the Gorgon might have been based on.

What does when have to do with anything? We all go through the same content and experience these things as we do. If we dont enjoy those things we wont force them upon ourself more than needed. There is also not much knowledge to be had in those parts of the game since everything is a pushover the moment you start to add building blocks. Farming all of that gear requires us to go through all of that "alternative" content over and over. Unless you have magic and exclusive access to getting all those items out the door. I ran around with broken mods, half leveled mods, no corrupted mods etc. for quite some time experiencing that "alternate" content. Which was OK at the time due to the carrot of progress. And no one said the game doesnt put our builds to the test. I said it is what I enjoy, being constantly tested by higher and higher content as the game lives on. The Star Chart does not allow me to get tested, since I simply cannot nerf myself to a point where it gets challenging. It also doesnt reward us for that, it just makes everything slower when the intent of the game genre is to hunt loot and farm in a rewarding fashion. But there isnt real balance. Since risk vs reward or even the potential to face risk isnt there. You are still stuck in how much damage we deal while ignoring how little damage the enemy deals to us. You still dont get my point regarding Grendel missions. If you can do those naked as intended, how is the star chart going to become engaging? Killing things slowly as they pose no actual threat to you is not engaging, it is tedious. And the dude being built for the content or not doesnt matter. He still increases the health of the Demos, so him dead or not built for the mission has the has outcome, the rest having to do enough to make up for his scaling increase to the objective of the whole mission, which mainly means making up for his slice to the point where the 3 can kill the heaviest type of Grineer Demo encountered on Mars. Also who said anything about carry? We did a fine job all 3 of us being able to pull our weight and the dead guys. That isnt carrying, that is making up for, covering etc. Like uhm what people should mostly be prepared to do incase S#&$ hits the fan. That said, the dude dying simply ran into poor luck since it happened quite far in. There is simply plenty of dangers on the Mars Archon tiles, some of the specific Narmer Grineer hit very hard with special attack, so if you are caught without a shield/OG its often buh-bye. Some of them can 1HK both my Lavos and Kullervo, while those two frames at the same time treat the Archons as a tickle fest. No I dont need to build for the content. What I need to build for is what I consider fun. DE allows me to do that, those are the rules and the intent, so I do that. If the game didnt allow for that I wouldnt do it and it wouldnt be possible. But it is possible so the game tells me to play the way I find it fun. Not the way you or anyone else find it fun. Since you are not prepared to allow me to have my idea of fun in public, according to you only I am supposed to bend and change, even though we both entered public and abide by the rules and limitations DE has placed on the game. No. They are simply not worthwhile if I cant use them at all. Lower content, if building for it to be "engagning", means no arcanes, no operator, no shards, barely no mod, barely building towards what is enjoyed in a specific frame kit etc. It also removes the option to combine X with Y and Z etc. All while not actually getting engaging in the end, since I'm still stuck with the baseline stats as the minimum. Empty capacity is empty capacity, which ends up not giving any value to the forma and taters spent. Because you can barely cram in the full baseline 30 capacity and innate polarity matches without trivializing low missions. And no, you practically cant make use of arcanes or galv mods if you want engaging content. And through all of this TTL still trivializes low missions. Unless we start going into territories where we go "dont use this frame, dont use that weapon, dont use that skill, dont use that playstyle", which just results in the question "why play if you arent going to play something you atleast find fun?". Since going slow for the sake of going slow while also not even enjoying the items you use is just self torture and borderline self destructive behavior. And why should you not set aside your idea of fun? You are in the end the minority yet want to be the one that makes decisions for the masses? And again you use "carry"... when we talk about trivial low level content and people simply playing the game as it is supposed to. No, people dont carry, people just play the game. Carry is when someone would be there that isnt actually supposed to be there since they cant actually handle it. Does that mean you think you shouldnt be there since you do too little and need a carry in such trivial content with the "builds" you bring? The point you miss is that we have too much TTL even without mods when it comes to the Star Chart, meaning that no matter how you build in order to make things engaging by nerfing your damage, you will still not end up with engaging content since you cannot die. That is what the Grendel missions show, they arent engaging, since you practically cant die, they are just slow because you deal low damage. The only thing modding more does is speed up the gameplay, so you might aswell go for the fastest clear speed since the threat will not increase by you going slower. Dragon keys are not an excuse, that is going out of your way since you are suddenly below the baseline now. Your whole jig to start with was regarding SP being imbalanced and not allowing for builds. Now you sit here and bring up dragon keys aswell in order for the SC to be engaging. While SP is all open for you to mod and build practically as you like while providing the exact same missions as the SC you go out of your way to play. All while having thrown your so prescious "modless baseline" straight out the window. And again, you name random SC places. What would be the reason to run them? Or should I not farm the loot I'm actually looking for? So I need to go even further out of my way to experience "engaging" gameplay on the start chart and remove even more of my fun? Or I can just build however I want and farm whichever region I actually need loot from on the SP, which facing a more hectic and fun density, more special units like nullifiers and eximus while having a chance to get downed, even if thing die faster. Like hmm, hard choice... more fun+more mobs+more threats+more loot+more build freedom+operator available vs no threats, having to narrow builds into the negative, barely able to pick any mods, cant really utilize arcanes, operator would break everything, likely need to pick just the weakest frames, preferably without any skills to use, horrible loot yield, snooze slow gameplay and practically forced to specific regions only in order to get "engaging" content. Can I please have a massive serving of option one!? And you keep rambling about "higher than the content". What content? Are you only ever running one-off missions? Do you not get the idea of the QoL in building for things far higher? So you can stay longer if you or others happen to want to. I cant count the times I've joined pugs and we've just kept going and going and going, things that wouldnt be possible if you "build" just for the bare minimum. Which is why I'd never set foot in Arbitrations in a group unless I have a build that can allow me to go as far as I like, since it is always endless and the more people we are and the longer we go the more vitus and chances and unique things like aura formas we get. More importantly if it is a really good node location for the current hour. Which is why you with a "fun" build doesnt matter, since you cannot push, you arent there considering others will to push, so no one should consider you and your discomfort the slightest. If you decide to "push" you will practically just end up being a leech at that point. There are many times I've gone into arbis and thought "eh I'll give it 20 mins", but then people have wanted to go further and I've stayed since I've been able to, even if I've gotten some drops I wanted already. Simply because it has been a chill group, a good tile and a beneficial mission type. Resulting in removing the RNG of the next hour incase we can stay past that. So there are many reasons to "overbuilding" and not just about wanting utmost efficiency and seeing it as fun. You building to only go the minimum doesnt only mean you do less, you also impact others when you leave if it is endless, since suddenly those guys that could see themselves going an hour in a group now only have 3/4 player density for the rest of the run, or if you stay a potential EMT job getting you up over and over. However, that is all fine, since in the end all of us are afterall in PuG. So if people drop out before the expected time of someone else is reached, or you using something that can only go 5 minutes, it really doesnt matter. Since if I or someone else wants to go an hour or two, or you want to build a certain way and have a specific outcome with that we'd not sit in a PuG. We'd be logical people and seek out a pre-made or go solo depending on what it is we seek. With your own logic and weight on considerate builds you are really in an unachievable situation. Since I'm fairly sure that you arent considerate enough to always bring a build to arbitrations (or SP) that can go for say an hour and you are likely not considerate enough to always go an hour if others want it. So there is no reason those players should caster to your needs either, neither in arbitrations or anywhere else, since in the end, you are as much about the I as I am bout the I in me. The common part in an endless is going to rota C, which is where most people bow out, just as the most common way to play the game is speed running efficiently. So the guys and gals wanting to go further than C end up going into the minority, just as your way of playing is in the minority. However, the people wanting to go further have more of a chance to find people considerate to them due to others mostly being built to speed run by "overbuilding" for the content, so can join those that want to go further on the fly. You however, a person that enjoys "building for the content" will end up being far less considerate to those that want to go further, since you will be limited by your build and not able to make those on the fly decisions. Is that really being considerate of you?

Indeed I also prefer the drunk uncle. So far I've had the pleasant experience of two, Digital Extremes and Gazillion Entertainment, sadly the second mentioned uncle died, he got assassinated by the big mouse. No white silk gloves that time, it utilized the full power of the Death Star. 😧

Many of the things that Grineer use used to be tied to the Orokin, so Gotva for instance is a Grineer weapon that is also a Prime Orokin weapon. Which then got reverse engineered to become that other weapon that I forgot the name of. So Diriga could have a prime version, it's just that the regular version is Grineer made, but it can be reverse engineered from something else, like for instance a prime... or something else, or an original creation of the Grineer. I think the only weapons that are really out of bounds to be primed are infested weapons, since they are already exsisting weapons that have gotten infested. Unless DE comes up with a new plan for obtaining or crafting them. Like obtaining the base prime of the weapon then combining it with the infested version to get say Mutalist Cernos Prime or Probocesis Cernos Prime for isntance.

I'm just saying why ask for feedback or be transparent on something you dont even know will be a thing? Which is why I think the info regarding the planned changes came at the right time, well ahead of the patch and after DE had decided on an approach regarding what they thought was needed. We would have probably had the same situation on the forums eitherway, just slightly differently worded. Since if DE had said "might get nerfed" and people had voted "toggle, helminth nerf, no mirage nerf" and DE had done the same changes as they initially did the forums would blow up all the same. But instead of "not transparent" it would be "DE ignores feedback!". DE are often in a damned if I do damned if I dont situation. In reality, people of this community dont know how good DE are at communicating things compared to most other companies. DE is that drunk uncle that tends to say a bit too much while most other companies are that dead clam in your soup that wont open up.

In cases like these which is gameplay related stuff, nope I dont care about transparency since I hit the OK button on the ToS both in WF and so many other live service games in the past. So the only transparency I need regarding game changes are the patch notes so I know what has been changed. And the transparency was there aswell, maybe not in the thread, but came from Pablo as he described how it would change. So gave people more than enough time to react on the specific changes before they had a chance to go live. Anything they could have provided in the thread would have been pointless, since it would have just been a vague disclaimer of "it might change... in some way, but we dont actually know, but maybe, perhaps, if we see a need, or not". And when it would be that vague, considering how knee-jerk the community can be, I rather have it left out so people simply vote without going chicken little, doom and gloom by overthinking "what if...?" situations that would even put Dr. Strange to shame. That would also require them to know what they'd plan to do if toggle became the winning choice. Which isnt positive they knew at that point in time. Because why plan for something that might not happen when you already have other things to work on as things get decided by the community? The transparency came at the right point through the recent devstream. Also, imagine how many pointless additional ideas they'd need to go through in the thread if they also wanted opinions regarding how it should change in damage if that ever became a reality. We already had plenty of horrible ideas that came in addition to the simple vote of toggle+nerf helminth vs reworking light sources on some maps.

You can already self cap without needing to get hit by enemies. It's just the armor part that needs actual enemy hits, which isnt really an issue since its hits versus shields. With Combat Discipline you have max Vex damage after killing 10 enemies iirc. Not saying he couldnt use some QoL or bigger changes, but there are ways to easily maintain Vex and easily max it out if you happen to snooze on a rebuff.