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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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I would love a UI element for Mesmer Skin, either a larger number displaying the amount of charges, or a visual representation of the charges around your crosshair. 

Right now, it's really hard to tell when a charge gets consumed. The animation is very subtle, and in a hectic mob, the 1-6 enemies standing still aren't terribly noticeable. Having your charges be more visible would let you know when a charge gets consumed so you can look for the enemy that triggered it. 

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I love Rev. I really do. I don't like that other player can kill thralls while you're enthralling, can erase your light pillars of doom with DM, and that his overall casting speed is slow. Yeah, I could slap a Natural Talent or the Drift mod that speeds up his casting time, but that's a mod slot I could use for something else, and I don't think I should have to use a mod slot just to speed up his casting animations. I wish DE put some more thought into his kit before releasing him, because his passive barely ever procs (unless you're in high level missions where enemies can drain your Mesmer Skin and overshields stupid fast), his reave is practically useless, and his DM conflicts with other Rev players light pillars as well as yours. I agree with the earlier posters who said reave should just be a passive move like Limbos riftwalk and Mags passive. All of Rev's issues won't make me abandon him, but damn DE...show this guy some more love. He needs it (As well as Chroma, but that's a whole other conversation in itself)

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So far I'm playing Rev a lot more, even in POE. His 4 is a nice way to annihilate everything, and now with the energy drain I don't have to see any more "Endless press 4 to win" Revenants around. I rarely die with him, Mesmer and Thralls offer enough CC. However, there's 3 things I cannot imagine how they are still present:

1- Thrall cap should be at least 10.

2-Passive is garbage, being a Sentient style WF it could have been so much more that made sense.

3-DM destroying light pillars. Here I just go WTF. The idea is for skills to synergize, this is just dumb to put it nicely.

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A toned down version of the new Adaption mod should be Rebenant's new passive. Just like how Equinox has Equilibrium lite. 

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1 hour ago, Sea_Wall said:

A toned down version of the new Adaption mod should be Rebenant's new passive. Just like how Equinox has Equilibrium lite. 

While Revenant isn't based on Hunhow Sentient, I think we can agree it would at least be more useful than the current passive without making changing both Revenant and the Nova-esque passive to do damage and be larger like a Eidolon's own.  I mean, the nova from an Eidolon is huge, does massive Magnetic, and is triggered on essentially taking fatal life damage to their Synovia parts more than the shields going down. Ours, it knocks down melee range enemies when our relatively large to life and armor shields are fully depleted. I could go for that passive.

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Il y a 11 heures, ArchXDiablo a dit :

So far I'm playing Rev a lot more, even in POE. His 4 is a nice way to annihilate everything, and now with the energy drain I don't have to see any more "Endless press 4 to win" Revenants around. I rarely die with him, Mesmer and Thralls offer enough CC. However, there's 3 things I cannot imagine how they are still present:

1- Thrall cap should be at least 10.

2-Passive is garbage, being a Sentient style WF it could have been so much more that made sense.

3-DM destroying light pillars. Here I just go WTF. The idea is for skills to synergize, this is just dumb to put it nicely.

Increasing the thrall cap is not a solution.
Instead of 7 minions dying from a room nuker, you'll have 10 minions dying from him, they need to rethink the whole enthrall thing.

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Yep, hope is lost, this frame is condemned to be a MR Fodder just like wukong.
And that's not because it's not a high meta frame, I mean, it's a really great tank, but I can tank the same amount of damage with inaros/Nezha/Rhino, while having fun, revenant is frustrating and not fun, sorry DE, but this time, you missed the point...

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Also I'm 99% sure Rebecca said they added Dance Macabre damaging nullies with intention on a Prime Time. Please make Dance Macabre CONSISTENT with ranged Waframe abilities like Exalted Blade/Artemis Bow and let it kill Nullies. Who at DE has a vendetta against Rebenant?! If Excal and Ivara can do it why can't Rebenant? They kill Nullies with frame powers while Rebenant's sentient lazor can't? 💀 

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Thralls needed to be given damage reduction to ally damage or an invulnerability period to have a chance to spread Enthrall.

Pillars shouldn't be destroyed by Danse Macabre.

Mesmer Skin needed to have better visuals to let us know when / if charges depleted.

Reave needed faster casting ( its slow even with Natural Talent ).

Revenant's passive needs a change , its one of useless passives on par with Rhino's.

But NO !!!

Lets nerf Danse Macabre more and make Reave apply status effects on Revenant to his enemies ?

Seriously wth... As long as Mesmer Skin is active, Revenant is IMMUNE to status effects and whole point of Revenant's kit is not getting affected by status and damage ( meatshield thralls + Mesmer Skin + Reave's invul. ).

Exalted Blade , Artemis Bow etc can damage nullies bubbles even tho they are powered by void energy but SENTIENT ESSENCE POWERED LASERS can't. Where is the consistency ? Ok , let's make other abilities to not damage nullie bubbles as well while we are at it.

Guess Revenant will always be crippled by his allies and kit will always contradict itself.

 

 

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Nerfed Danse Macabre........

.....

....

....

DE, I'm going to guess Pablo hasn't touched Revenant. This makes no sense. Revenant is nowhere near OP. His Mesmer Skin is a hassle anywhere multiple enemies shoot you, it goes down very quick and can mean certain death if you don't keep an eye on it. His 3 is too niche. His 1 is useless in teams. His 4 is the only thing he had for him, then you made it cost a lot of energy. Alright, fair point as now it's more situational instead of constant spam, but now this? Omegawut?

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Random DE guy: -"Oh, look, Revenant is not fun, frustrating, and has no use in a group... Hmmm, let me see, what we could doooooo about that... Rework his 1 ? No, no, no, too long... Review his passive ? Nope, I don't have the will right now..."

Another random DE guy at the back of the room: -"WTF REV IS DAMAGING NULLIES SHIELDS WITH HIS FOUR"

-" WTFFFFFFFFF NERF NERF NERF NERF"

Oh and, volt's 4 can damage nullies shields...

And do not say that we're not bringing enough feedback, there's actually 75 PAGES OF COMPLAINS AND IDEAS ABOUT HOW REV COULD BE COOL

Oh and as @Aeon94 said, Rev is already immune to status effect due to mesmer skin, wtf are you doing with it, so the new changes of reave is also pointless because:
It work with thralls that dies really to fast, and they move everywhere
It takes 3 SECONDS TO CAST, IT'S A DASH, A DASH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A dash needs to be quick, or it's not a dash, it's something that is called a dash, with the aspect of a dash, but it's not a dash, it's a broken thing

And now, it has a feature that can't work because of one of his powers ???????

But but, you can cast it quickly while playing with his 4

His 4  ?  You mean the useless laser ball of death ?
The thing that kills your energy way faster than 4 parasitic eximus ??
Yeah, no, thx

AND DON'T DARE NERF MESMER SKIN IN ORDER FOR THIS FEATURE TO WORK, I SEE YOU COMING THERE

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So minor tweaks that don't address anyone's major complaints + a nerf + removing the sticky from the thread means DE thinks he's done I guess...

The nullifier thing doesn't really make sense to me. I assumed it was intended since the theme of the power is to adapt to what it's attacking. It's also not unprecedented for a power to hurt a nullifier bubble (IE: Octavia's mallet). 

What we really needed was faster baseline casts and at least a better way to spread thralls. Addressing the very flawed counter synergy between his 1 and 4 would have been nice too. 

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il y a une heure, Borg1611 a dit :

So minor tweaks that don't address anyone's major complaints + a nerf + removing the sticky from the thread means DE thinks he's done I guess...

The nullifier thing doesn't really make sense to me. I assumed it was intended since the theme of the power is to adapt to what it's attacking. It's also not unprecedented for a power to hurt a nullifier bubble (IE: Octavia's mallet). 

What we really needed was faster baseline casts and at least a better way to spread thralls. Addressing the very flawed counter synergy between his 1 and 4 would have been nice too. 

Yep, exactly, but we all know that we need to wait another 2-3 years just to hear them say "ohhhh, revenant is not as good as expected, we'll rework him, but first, hype !"

 

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I was holding on to hope here. No longer. I said it before and I'll say it again. His 4 is a fairly uninspired ability, and they focus so much on it that the rest of his kit suffers for it.

DE, I get it. You continuously disincentivize his 4, but still give us no reason to use his thrall mechanic.

 

Oh but nice job on 3 getting buffed by range. That'll do..... something.....

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It's unfortunate that they'd focus on a random part of a comment like "... no reason to use..." while looking the other way, intentionally ignoring all the clunky terrible mechanics that don't make sense. 

Enthrall has a very slow base cast time. Thralls die very easily. His 3 has "synergy" with thralls if you charge through them, but again, they die easily and his 4 not only kills the thralls, but blows up the pillars they leave behind. A very large wide area AoE detonates the pillars in a smaller AoE because the larger AoE wasn't going to kill anything in range of the pillar anyway?

The only way enthrall spreads besides manually casting it is if living thralls, that again, die very easily, including to your 4, shoot other enemies before they die, but those enemies they just turned will also easily die to weapons fire and his 4 so even if you waited for them to spread you're just going to kill them all and have to start over again at some point anyway. Something as simple as making pillar projectiles turn enemies into thralls and not blowing them up with his 4 would make the enthrall aspect of his kit so much better and actually make his kit fit together where it currently contradicts itself and is a gigantic clunk pile. I don't care if developers don't like the word clunky, Revenant's kit is exactly that currently.

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It is unfortunate that Thralls, a core part of his kit, was essentially  disregarded when it came to tweaks.

 

Also, getting tired of parts of his kit encouraging him to get hit when Mesmer Skin prevents him from getting hit. It's VERY counter-intuitive. 

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Alright I got some things to say about this. First of all I love Revenant, hes my new fave warframe. 100% favourite. And thats saying a lot for me. Havent had a real fave for the last 3-4 years ive been playing, so yeah. Revenant really speaks to me for some reason. Might be the glorious beard now that I think about it.

Now lets start with talking about the Reave changes:

His leeching now being affected by power strength is definitely a powerful buff. Coupled with it now being affected by range mods the skill is an absolute powerhouse capable of two shotting large groups of pretty much all normal enemies in the game without even enthralling em as long as you got enough power strength.

Reave shedding status effects isnt really a bad change persee, but it doesnt do anything noticeably good either since u already got mesmer skin and operator form. So yeah not bad, but also not good.

And onto Danse Macabre:

Now for his Danse Macabre not touching nullie bubbles anymore, I do get it. There was no other ability in the game that could pop those bubbles with that kind of reliability in a 360 degree area. Buuuuuut it was also the only thing he really had going for him that made him stand out in some way. So if you feel like it was to powerful at doing that how about just bringing it back but with a dmg reduction on the nullie bubbles? Please? With a cherry on top? It really was the one thing that made him a cut above the rest in some way.

Based on my testing it seems like the Mesmer skin one-shot bug has been fixed, so I dont really have any problems with how it is at the moment. It works very nice, has its strengths and weaknesses that balance out well.

And of course like the rest of the forum is saying his Enthrall still needs work. Most obvious thing to fix is his Danse Macabre exploding his pillars. this really ends up being the antithesis of synergy. Since the explosion isnt really all that reliable in the chaos of combat. The end result then is that you feel forced to just stick to one ability at a time. And since other Revenants can explode your pillars, in an unorganized team you never feel safe using em cuz at any moment the other Revenant can use Danse Macabre and explode em.

Theres also the problem of spreading Enthrall, your thralls getting killed really easy by your teammates. Theres countless ideas thrown around on how to solve this little dilemma so im just gonna throw out my personal favourite: Give thralls a 3s unmodable dmg immunity + let the pillar missiles turn survivors into thralls.

Of course I would also say that im in favor of increasing the thrall cap, but honestly thats just the fanboy in me talking. Cuz you know that would be awesome on every level. But again thats just me fanboying.

And finally his passive:

You dont even notice its there unless you really try to pay attention to it, waiting for it to happen. That being said good lord it has potential. I mean just make it waaaay more flashy and increase the range a S#&$load. To what u may ask? I dunno, hows 20 meters sound? Not sure if it would be to much or not but it sure would be epic, I can tell ya that much. Also do not underestiamte the power of flashyness, being flashy is great, it is good, it is divine. That is all. Thank you for your time reading this and I hope that you have a good day 🙂

 

Now while im at it, heres a message to my fellow compatriots on the forums:

Or well just to some of you, youll know if your the kinda person im talking once I put in the examples that I intend to put in somewhere below this.

I get that your heart is in the right place, I really do. You wouldnt be here if you didnt care about this game, about this warframe. I dont think you would have bothered to come here and write down what you think if you didnt care wether he was fun or good. 

But just writing down that "this X sucks", "X is OP", "X is boring", "X is fun" etc etc

Thats doesnt really help all that much. After all we must remember that what we write down someone else has to read. And those kinds of posts dont really engage any readers looking for information on what you think. And with such a bucketload of posts that are just like that I cant imagine someone being motivated to keep reading or taking what you have to say to heart. Now im not saying that you have to do some complete thourough analysis of what your talking about. Just an extra line or two exlpaining WHY you think what you do is enough. 

But with all the posts that are just like the examples above in some way I think the end result is kinda counter-productive to what you want, to what I want, to what DE wants. What WE ALL want. A good and fun frame.

So please, if you could just take a little bit of extra time when writing your posts to explain your thoughts then maybe we could establish some better communication between DE and the community. Again thank you for your time.

Im getting pretty tired now so ima stop, cya around.

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Since they made the change to pop pillars with DM I've actually been playing Rev less and less... yes he feels like mess of ideas mashed together but any synergy that was there before ..be it funky as hell.. did a 180° turn.  Now if I want to use DM I just kinda don't because thralls, and if I want to use thralls...wait...why would I thrall if the point is completely taken away by DM.  DE stahp \o/

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RIP thread, you were about 50% paid attention to when you were at your peek and not paid attention to at all in the end.

Let's look back on some of the good.

They increased the thrall cap from 4 to 7 (eventho I disagree with their reasoning for picking 7 instead of a higher number its still more)

They fixed Mesmer Skin

They made Mesmer Skin recastable

They made it so you can regain Mesmer Skin charges by Reaving Thralled enemies  (yayy??? Since I only found 1 use for this)

They buffed Reaves leeching. (Forgot to test this vs non thralled enemies)

They ummm... added projectiles to the pillars, which were ok I guess. Kinda didnt help the pillars themselves as a point of damage.

They lowered the cost of Reave

They changed Reaves visual fx

They let Revenant give allies single Mesmer Skin charges, which noone asked for but ok.

Now the bad

They made Dance Macabre the highest costing channeling ability in the game even while unboosted.

While I understand why they did it, it was a kneejerk reaction to stop afk or minimalistic play from players which came off as "we don't know what to do" since they didn't make the ability more interactive or actually stop the possibility of afk play with the ability. (I expect another nerf down the line, starting with sprinting/sprint speed not affecting DM's movement speed)

I might be mistaken. But I could swear for 1 update they gave Reave omnidirectional movement, meaning instead of only going forward you could go up or down or diagonal. Might be wrong tho, was the update where it said that Reave would track your last redicle position, but something about that was changed the very next hotfix.

Enthrall was barely changed, the mechanic of making thralls was never something I liked in the first place, but it could have worked if they streamlined making thralls so that it would be much easier and it had to be since Reave relies on using it on thralled enemies to be worthwhile.

In general the point of Reave is at odds with Mesmer Skin, his tanking aka his survivability is tied to Mesmer Skin, which means you should try to have as many charges as possible up at all times, but Reave is there to heal you... but if you properly use Mesmer Skin you wont need healing at all...

Its also at odds with his passive, kind of. I assume his passive was to act as cc to let you get your Mesmer Skin back up if it goes down. But the range is so short that its not likely to turn out that way especially since for it to trigger you need all your shields to go down.

Suggestions were made for better passives and ways to make Reave actually meaningful, but none were taken into much consideration.

Cast times were never addresed

The projectiles from the pillars act more to keep enemies away from them rather than bringing them towards them.

People didn't like the DM and pillar synergy, and this hasn't been removed yet. 

Getting shields/overshields from DM on killing thralled enemies was never a good synergy and went against both his passive and Mesmer Skin (in a way). 

Also yeah nerfing him vs nullifiers was a bad move. 

 

 

At this point I'm just gonna wait for a Revenant rework to adress these flaws. (I've considered trashing him despite putting 6 forma on him every update that had "Revenant changes" in it)

I feel like rn they just don't want to take the time to make a cohesive frame, but more just a frame that works.

Still, good on them for fixing some of his issues. And good if you enjoy him despite what I said, I just can't get behind some of the bad design decisions they have made with this frame.

 

@Aeon94 @Maryph Revenant is not completely immune to status effects while Mesmer Skin is active, but yeah Mesmer Skin does make that change largely redundant. (Not completely, but for thr most oart yes)

I'm not sure what the full context required is, but stuff like toxin clouds still go through it (forgot to test mustalist moa tar), but its quite interesting since he can ignore laser barrier knockdowns.

(Also the UI for status effects might not work well for him, last time I played him I got toxin procced while in mesmer skin, but the toxin icon wasnt there eventho he was taking health dmg from it.)

 

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Reave is turning out to be quite loaded an ability with perks that contradict Revenant's non-damage taking playstyle. Nice buffs for it, also kinda funny that it can now be modded to 1HKO thralls of any enemy level.

Holding onto hope that Enthrall will be addressed.

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1 hour ago, Madway7 said:

Now the bad

They made Dance Macabre the highest costing channeling ability in the game even while unboosted.

- They could make it ramp up energy cost , similar to Ember & Valkyr's ults.

I might be mistaken. But I could swear for 1 update they gave Reave omnidirectional movement, meaning instead of only going forward you could go up or down or diagonal. Might be wrong tho, was the update where it said that Reave would track your last redicle position, but something about that was changed the very next hotfix.

- Yes , we were able to do that but somehow they fixed in same day. 

Enthrall was barely changed, the mechanic of making thralls was never something I liked in the first place, but it could have worked if they streamlined making thralls so that it would be much easier and it had to be since Reave relies on using it on thralled enemies to be worthwhile.

- They just increased number to 7 so our allies can kill more. /s

In general the point of Reave is at odds with Mesmer Skin, his tanking aka his survivability is tied to Mesmer Skin, which means you should try to have as many charges as possible up at all times, but Reave is there to heal you... but if you properly use Mesmer Skin you wont need healing at all...

- Reave's health / shield drain is huge but Revenant hardly takes any damage and can heal with many ways. If only drained enemies gave stacking buff or some sort instead of tons of health / shield.

Its also at odds with his passive, kind of. I assume his passive was to act as cc to let you get your Mesmer Skin back up if it goes down. But the range is so short that its not likely to turn out that way especially since for it to trigger you need all your shields to go down.

- Funny part is passive could be an addition to Mesmer Skin. Whenever Mesmer charges deplete , Revenant screeches and releases a shockwave that knocks down enemies in 15 meters radius.

Suggestions were made for better passives and ways to make Reave actually meaningful, but none were taken into much consideration.

- True. So true...

Cast times were never addresed

- I can't take Natural Talent off , because cast times disgust me so badly.

The projectiles from the pillars act more to keep enemies away from them rather than bringing them towards them.

- Eh , blame Impact procs. They keep staggering and pushing enemies away. :D

People didn't like the DM and pillar synergy, and this hasn't been removed yet. 

- Such an awful synergy. Worst part is other Revenants can also destroy them ( also a bug causes our shots and melee hits to destroy pillars ).

Getting shields/overshields from DM on killing thralled enemies was never a good synergy and went against both his passive and Mesmer Skin (in a way). 

- He never needs shields , all he needs is keeping Mesmer Skin. Wasted overshield orbs.

Also yeah nerfing him vs nullifiers was a bad move. 

- I understand their intention. Its a really good high range nuke but nerfing it while we have other abilities can erase nullie bubbles was a really , REALLY bad move.

 

At this point I'm just gonna wait for a Revenant rework to adress these flaws. (I've considered trashing him despite putting 6 forma on him every update that had "Revenant changes" in it)

I feel like rn they just don't want to take the time to make a cohesive frame, but more just a frame that works.

Still, good on them for fixing some of his issues. And good if you enjoy him despite what I said, I just can't get behind some of the bad design decisions they have made with this frame.

 

@Aeon94 @Maryph Revenant is not completely immune to status effects while Mesmer Skin is active, but yeah Mesmer Skin does make that change largely redundant. (Not completely, but for thr most oart yes)

- Its still redundant as Revenant is immune to status effects but takes damage from toxin ( same with environmental hazard , you take damage but don't get affected by status ). Change was about applying the status effect on Revenant to Reave'd targets which will never work as long as Mesmer Skin is active.

I'm not sure what the full context required is, but stuff like toxin clouds still go through it (forgot to test mustalist moa tar), but its quite interesting since he can ignore laser barrier knockdowns.

(Also the UI for status effects might not work well for him, last time I played him I got toxin procced while in mesmer skin, but the toxin icon wasnt there eventho he was taking health dmg from it.)

 

 

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23 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Reave is turning out to be quite loaded an ability with perks that contradict Revenant's non-damage taking playstyle. Nice buffs for it, also kinda funny that it can now be modded to 1HKO thralls of any enemy level.

Holding onto hope that Enthrall will be addressed.

Agreed. Reave hits really hard with changes ( I appreciate it ) but latest perk totally contradicts with his " blocking-all-damage " nature. Its just a redundant change.

They could just give Thralls a short immunity period ( 2-3 sec ) , shorten his cast times a bit , remove detonating pillars synergy and change his passive to reflect his theme ( that won't contradict with his kit ).

Edit Also make a better synergy between DM and Thralls , instead of Overshield Orbs.

Edit 2 : They can let DM to damage nullie shields and make its energy cost increase overtime ( they have to reduce current cost first :d ).

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