Required Solo Sortie Qualifier

[Joe_Barbarian]

3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

... Have you ever seen a public spy mission sortie?

At least forcing players to complete all the spy chambers once with the usual sortie settings would help with that situation tremendously because players would either need to figure out how to cheese the chamber so they can complete it, or they'd actually be forced to learn how to complete that spy chamber.

Yes I have, but for a long time now i've either done them with friends or solo, for the primary reason that people suck and I don't want to drag some idiots around that's most likely not going to read chat, set off alarm and/or most likely fail the entire mission. If I wanted to waste my time I'd put a hobbled dragon key on my Ivara and walk.

3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So, why should we expect public groups to suck?  How is that good?  Besides, when there's opinions like:

I never expect anything from them. If you don't have expectations you can't be disappointed. (dodgeball quote)

3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

I should be able to have my opinion to counter this one.

Never said you're not allowed your own opinion, just that if you're going to talk about a singular mission type when you're trying to claim "Sortie Qualifier" don't be biased or at least be honest it's specifically about a specific mission type.

[Almagnus1]

Quote

Never said you're not allowed your own opinion, just that if you're going to talk about a singular mission type when you're trying to claim "Sortie Qualifier" don't be biased or at least be honest it's specifically about a specific mission type.

So that we're on the same page, here's what I had listed:

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

• All of the Corpus spy rooms
• All of the Grineer spy rooms
• All of the Kuva spy rooms
• All of the Uranus spy rooms
• 5 minute survival
• 5 wave defense

Mobile defense can be collapsed into defense, as one round of mobile defense is basically the same thing as a static defense wave (or protecting the idiot), and if you can do either the survival or defense, you can do the exterminate.

That said, I probably do need to amend the original post to include all of the bosses, one of each of the sabotage missions, hijack, and a capture mission.  Doing an interception solo can be **VERY** difficult, so I'm less inclined to make that part of a requirement list.  The only reason why I explicitly listed all the spy chambers (except the Lua ones I forgot about >.>) is that they are different enough from each other that they'd form a good bar to pass.

[Joe_Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So that we're on the same page, here's what I had listed:

Mobile defense can be collapsed into defense, as one round of mobile defense is basically the same thing as a static defense wave (or protecting the idiot), and if you can do either the survival or defense, you can do the exterminate.

That said, I probably do need to amend the original post to include all of the bosses, one of each of the sabotage missions, hijack, and a capture mission.  Doing an interception solo can be **VERY** difficult, so I'm less inclined to make that part of a requirement list.  The only reason why I explicitly listed all the spy chambers (except the Lua ones I forgot about >.>) is that they are different enough from each other that they'd form a good bar to pass.

You are aware that you have to complete 'A War Within' to be able to partake in Sorties, that usually means players have the most basic concept of different missions. They also got to complete every assassination mission between Earth and Pluto.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

5 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

That said, I probably do need to amend the original post to include all of the bosses, one of each of the sabotage missions, hijack, and a capture mission.  Doing an interception solo can be **VERY** difficult, so I'm less inclined to make that part of a requirement list.  The only reason why I explicitly listed all the spy chambers (except the Lua ones I forgot about >.>) is that they are different enough from each other that they'd form a good bar to pass.

While you're at it, could you at least provide an answer as to WHY there should be a sortie qualifier. I feel like there's something missing here.

[LupisV0lk]

Yay Gatekeeping....How about No!

[Almagnus1]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

While you're at it, could you at least provide an answer as to WHY there should be a sortie qualifier. I feel like there's something missing here.

How many complaints have you seen about pub players and other less than savory additions to your cell that make you want to break controllers?

How many people do you see suggesting that maybe having a barrier to entry would either make them good, or keep them out?

24 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

You are aware that you have to complete 'A War Within' to be able to partake in Sorties, that usually means players have the most basic concept of different missions. They also got to complete every assassination mission between Earth and Pluto.

Completing them at sortie difficulty can be an entirely different beast compared to their star chart difficulty - Ambulas and the Hyena pack are two examples.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Almagnus1

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

8 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

How many complaints have you seen about pub players and other less than savory additions to your cell that make you want to break controllers?

How many people do you see suggesting that maybe having a barrier to entry would either make them good, or keep them out?

To your first point, there's recruit chat for a reason. If you're doing sorties with randoms that's on you.

And to your second point, you're the first I've seen suggest a sortie barrier. We already have one, it's TWW.

[Joe_Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Completing them at sortie difficulty can be an entirely different beast compared to their star chart difficulty.

How do you suggest that they learn? Right now you're suggesting more hoops for them to jump through before they get to content that will actually begin to challenge them. Now i'm going to put myself at risk and say that DE has done a terrible job at guiding new players at the start unless someone intervenes they don't know what they are doing. You make of sorties what do can, I've found MR 8-12 players there that have no help and I might be in a pleasant enough mood to actually talk with them, help them out with some basic starter builds (considering their mod restrictions by not having all the fancy stuff) Example being: a EV Trinity that cant EV that well, threw them the Augment for free and explained how to improve their build.

So maybe instead of saying "you must be this high to get on this ride" How about you pull a big of extra weight and help them out?
(and yes, If i'm not in the mood, I'll just leave them be, not my problem to help every person I come across)

Story if you're interested about a recent new player:

A mate recently joined the game, he got to MR1 then I spoke with him on discord and what was he doing, Cetus bounties with unmodded excal and unmodded Mk-1 Braton. I told him to GTFO out of there and i'll show him the ropes, it took maybe 3 to 4 days of showing him and explain all the little bits about the game he needed to learn. Told him "try get to MR 8 before friday for Uncle Baro" he had a week from MR 5 to get to 8, he did it. When re-discussing mods and builds, he was telling me how good of a build he got on his recently bought Rhino Prime access pack. I walked away for 5 minutes so I could think on where I screwed up with him the build was that bad. Then after 3 hours of going over the mod system and explaining how your damage wasn't tied to your MR rank we finally got him able to do decent damage and survive for more than 5 seconds.

Now I don't think we should be looking at setting restrictions on sorties but I would suggest maybe the following:

Spy missions limited to sortie missions 1 & 2, keep Sortie 3 to something a bit harder. Defence or Assassinate's are fun.
Improve the New player Learning experience.

Add a new feature with Sorties - where you can mark yourself as a "New Player" with lets say under 200 hours in game and players with over 600-700 hours can mark themselves as "Educator" In which the mission will group an Educator with New Players but not instantly start the mission, keep the timer paused until the Educator starts the mission so there can be a pre-discussion about builds and tactics. Because new players need to learn what every experienced player does instinctively. 

 

[IceColdHawk]

I'm all for a meaningful barrier other than a nonsensy barrier of Mastery Rank 5, and i've seen too many <MR10s simply not having the required gear to get enemies dead at sortie levels.

But what you suggested is simply nonsense, sorry. You can cheese your way through a spy but that doesn't mean that this particular player is good at it. He might still be able to ruin your next spy day, should you meet in public. I really don't see this suggestion happening simply because when do you ever fail a sortie? Spy. And just finishing a spy successfully once doesn't mean anything. And the enemy level doesn't matter in there at all.

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

There's no way this even anywhere near serious

[Almagnus1]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

There's no way this even anywhere near serious

But what if it is?

[Himenoinu]

43 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

While you're at it, could you at least provide an answer as to WHY there should be a sortie qualifier. I feel like there's something missing here.

Probably because getting carried Earth to Pluto doesn't mean one is sortie ready. And because the rewards are attractive and the habit of piggybacking missions is already stronk some players might just go do that.

However, that bonus qualifier wouldn't things any better. If anything, players that can't crack a grineer terminal or that can't find a weapon that beats Lato Vandal in terms of damage will still leech the sorties after completing the qualifier - maybe with even more determination out of spite.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

But what if it is?

Then you have way bigger problems than (get this) PUBLIC match making/random teammates.

[LupisV0lk]

33 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Story if you're interested about a recent new player:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

A mate recently joined the game, he got to MR1 then I spoke with him on discord and what was he doing, Cetus bounties with unmodded excal and unmodded Mk-1 Braton. I told him to GTFO out of there and i'll show him the ropes, it took maybe 3 to 4 days of showing him and explain all the little bits about the game he needed to learn. Told him "try get to MR 8 before friday for Uncle Baro" he had a week from MR 5 to get to 8, he did it. When re-discussing mods and builds, he was telling me how good of a build he got on his recently bought Rhino Prime access pack. I walked away for 5 minutes so I could think on where I screwed up with him the build was that bad. Then after 3 hours of going over the mod system and explaining how your damage wasn't tied to your MR rank we finally got him able to do decent damage and survive for more than 5 seconds.

 

Now I don't think we should be looking at setting restrictions on sorties but I would suggest maybe the following:

Spy missions limited to sortie missions 1 & 2, keep Sortie 3 to something a bit harder. Defence or Assassinate's are fun.
Improve the New player Learning experience.

Add a new feature with Sorties - where you can mark yourself as a "New Player" with lets say under 200 hours in game and players with over 600-700 hours can mark themselves as "Educator" In which the mission will group an Educator with New Players but not instantly start the mission, keep the timer paused until the Educator starts the mission so there can be a pre-discussion about builds and tactics. Because new players need to learn what every experienced player does instinctively. 

 

A clan i know of has a mentor system on their discord. It's rather good. DE might want to looking into something like it in the future, just to help newer players out.

[Almagnus1]

50 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Then you have way bigger problems than (get this) PUBLIC match making/random teammates.

But what if I don't?

[Almagnus1]

39 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

A clan i know of has a mentor system on their discord. It's rather good. DE might want to looking into something like it in the future, just to help newer players out.

I think having a set of (moderated) advice channels would go far towards helping the newer players - especially if it had a call out from an ingame mail or something else that did a "this is here, check it out".

[DatDarkOne]

6 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

DE should have the following missions as a sortie qualifier, done at Sortie 1 difficulty solo without items and none of the usual sortie modifiers:

• All of the Corpus spy rooms
• All of the Grineer spy rooms
• All of the Kuva spy rooms
• All of the Uranus spy rooms
• All of the Lua spy rooms
• All of the boss fights
• 5 minute survival
• 5 wave defense
• Hijack
• Capture
• Rescue
• One of each of the Sabotage missions

If a player can do all of the above, then they get to sortie, otherwise they're locked out of sorties until they complete the qualifier.

I've been doing this since day one.  😁 

[Twilight-Knight]

20 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

DE should have the following missions as a sortie qualifier, done at Sortie 1 difficulty solo without items and none of the usual sortie modifiers:

• All of the Corpus spy rooms
• All of the Grineer spy rooms
• All of the Kuva spy rooms
• All of the Uranus spy rooms
• All of the Lua spy rooms
• All of the boss fights
• 5 minute survival
• 5 wave defense
• Hijack
• Capture
• Rescue
• One of each of the Sabotage missions

If a player can do all of the above, then they get to sortie, otherwise they're locked out of sorties until they complete the qualifier.

Rather you suggest a higher sortie for real hardcore gamers.

This cannot be apply because hard mission were made very hard but not impossible. And not all of us are good at 1st.

But well TOTALLY AGREE, some special mission as Sortie should have some real test in solo 1st before they can just join and leech in what they not worth. But what you know, sortie reward sucks ass with chance of 6k kuva ......... 1 forma WTF ? Exilus Adapter and also only 1 so f*ck it, I help people as long as they know their place.

[Fishyflakes]

How about:
- Make a Clan
- Make these the requirements to join the clan
- Only do Sorties with clan-mates

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Completing them at sortie difficulty can be an entirely different beast compared to their star chart difficulty - Ambulas and the Hyena pack are two examples.

Not really. They'd be roughly the same difficulty as their normal version because you said it would be without sortie modifiers and at sortie 1 level. So completely pointless and ass backwards. Even at sortie 3 all you really need is one guy that does the damage while the other 3 are distractions if they cant pull their weight.

I mean how often do you seriously fail any sortie in a group except for spy? It is a very rare ocassion. Once in a blue moon you end up with some doofs on a mob def or regular def with the radiation hazzard or elemental enhancement. Those rare things that arent covered by your "test".

Also, why Lua spy as part of your list? It never pops as a sortie spy.

[Almagnus1]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I mean how often do you seriously fail any sortie in a group except for spy? It is a very rare ocassion. Once in a blue moon you end up with some doofs on a mob def or regular def with the radiation hazzard or elemental enhancement. Those rare things that arent covered by your "test".

Never underestimate the power of randoms in sorties.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, why Lua spy as part of your list? It never pops as a sortie spy.

Cause it'd be lunar discrimination otherwise?

[S.Dust]

Wouldnt be against it i mean i dont like being stuck with dead weight as much as the next guy.

[(PSN)teacup775]

The problem with that scheme is there are plenty of dojos that help jr members thru sorties. Your scheme would utterly destroy that social aspect.

Edited September 14, 2018 by (PS4)teacup775

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

Never underestimate the power of randoms in sorties.

Cause it'd be lunar discrimination otherwise?

Well that really only applies to things like spy and as I said radiation modifiers on mobile/defense. The rest simply cant fail aslong as one person knows what hes doing and brings a proper loadout.

edit: Lua is already discriminated and not part of sorties. So saying it should be soloed as a base for doing sorties makes as much sense as saying a tridolon hunt is required aswell.

Edited September 14, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

edit: Lua is already discriminated and not part of sorties.

Not quite true fellow Tenno.  There is still the Sortie Rescue on Lua.  Which can be failed if RNG isn't with you. 

edit:  I just realized that might be the Void.  Get the two maps confused sometimes. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by DatDarkOne