Chroma needs a rework

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, VarianStark said:

I agree he is capable but his abilities absolutely need a rework. His first and second ability are laughable. 

I personally find his 2nd to be actually solid, if a bit restricted. His 4 is what bothers me. So much flair for something that does so little. Also while on the subject might as well advertise my thread.

 

[UltraLYT]

I was extremely upset for they destroyed Chroma as the incredible damage dealer for the solo players.

I spent 10 formas to experiment different setups on Chroma in order to look for the most optimum build for my play style, just for a certain solo tasks, e.g. sortie bosses.

It was completely doable in the past for Chroma to solo Ambulas sortie mission (today's sortie boss, radiation modifier).  Today, I used Wukong to solo this sortie boss; the reworked Nezha also worked - I tried.  Solo this sortie boss with the post-nerf Chroma?  Not a chance.  I have stopped using Chroma after the nerf because Chroma has become the run-of-the-mill AoE buff frame.  Even Rhino can charge up much more armor than Chroma with the 2-cast combo, it is just a poor timing to release Chroma Prime.  If Chroma was not nerfed, Chroma Prime would have been one of the most anticipated prime frames to me.

DE needs to at least maintain several warframes for solo players, e.g. on the level of soloing today's sortie boss Ambulas.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

6 minutes ago, modalmojo said:

DE needs to at least maintain several warframes for solo players, e.g. on the level of soloing today's sortie boss Ambulas.

Done, there are a number of frames that can solo sortie ambulas. 

[UltraLYT]

8 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Done, there are a number of frames that can solo sortie ambulas. 

I did not mean there are not, did I not mention Wukong and the reworked Nezha?!  My point is they have removed Chroma as the incredible damage dealer, from the long list of warframes, one less competent warframe for solo players, this is my point!

Edited September 25, 2018 by modalmojo

[Omega-Shadowblade]

1 minute ago, modalmojo said:

I did not mean there are not, I even mentioned Wukong and the reworked Nezha.  My point is they have removed Chroma as the incredible damage dealer, from the long list of warframes, one less competent warframe for solo players, this is my point!

To be fair, his damage scaling was definitely unreasonable, they really shouldn't have let it go on for as long as it had. could use another pass maybe but yeah its old version was well beyond reasonable. I already posted a link in this thread to the rework thoughts I had for him to make him more of a scaling threat so he doesn't solely rely on vex armor as his way of dealing with enemies.

[UltraLYT]

Chroma was about the fan concept for a powerful dragon of which its damage output gets increasingly stronger under attack, this original concept was destroyed.

In the past several years, there were only threads for discussing the optimum builds, exactly because of the old damage scaling!  No one really came here to complain Chroma as the incredible damage dealer.  As a matter of fact, no ability is really OP or unreasonable if you mostly solo.   

I do not believe someone who spent lots of time and efforts to forma and optimize his/her warframes and weapons would come here to advocate to nerf them! 

Edited September 25, 2018 by modalmojo

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb RolandDischein:

Not even close to it. Nekr can get 95%, Rhino has only his skin, which do not stand against high lvl even a 20 sec becose of it's mechanic. Chroma had 98,6% resist +missle reflection fron second abiliti. 

It was 95% reduction without the 450 extra armor from HC.

With it, things look a little bit different. It later became 90% on 600-1050 extra armor. Figure.

And rhino had 275 base armor adding to 577 armor with steel fiber. Ironclad charge easily gets to 500% buffs when spawns get bigger with raising levels (charging into like 5 enemies...can get MUCH bigger too). That armor then gets multiplied by 5 by Iron skin, warding 2400 extra HP on as much as a 200% strength build plus full status immunity.

....What was the best chroma could do? Can't remember the exact numbers but it didn't multiply (his armor x5) x5 did it?

Edited September 25, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nox_Terminus]

Greetings, I am Nox Terminus, and this is yet another rework thread for Chroma. Do us all a favor and read through the entire rework before posting a reply, thank you.

The Current State of Chroma - Overview

Spoiler

Currently Chroma, following the touch up earlier this year, has been left behind his peers in most roles. He can still grant a large deal of bonus damage to allies, but this is only with proximity, and that only really works for something like Eidolon hunts, a role which can be filled by Rhino without any range penalty. His survivability, compared to his previous iteration has been hit quite hard, which has pushed him out of the top contending positions for the most survivable tanks in the game. Rhino, Inaros, and even Nekros out tank him easily. This is especially disappointing because Chroma's theme is meant to be based on Dragons. Mythical creatures whose existence in and of itself could shape entire realms in fiction.

Passive - Elemental Alignment

Love it or hate it, this passive serves as one of the biggest limitations to Chroma. A limitation on fashion choice. Thus Id like to see it changed to something a bit more flexible. The main purpose will still be there, with the chosen energy color deciding your starting element, but also allow the ability to shift elements in-mission.

Spectral Scream

Next, lets talk about Chroma's 1. Dragon breath, its an iconic trait of dragons in many myths, however this does not functionally work in a game like Warframe. Unlike DnD combat isn't turn based, its generally quite frenetic. Chroma's 1 is counter-intuitive in that it deals low damage (even with vex armor built up), and doesn't serve a purpose which couldn't be served better by a weapon. Of course simply removing this ability, or at least its function in some respect would be a waste. So instead I believe it should be worked into his 4, as something Effigy can use on harder targets.

Elemental Ward & Vex Armor

Next, lets go over Chroma's 2 and 3. In mythology and in modern tabletop games, Dragons are creatures who cannot typically be damaged by mundane weapons, one needs magical weapons or weapons crafted by gods to attempt such a feat. Yet in-game, unless you spend a mountain of endo on power strength mods, his defensive capabilities are rather lackluster. Certainly, stacking up armor and multiplying it works to an extent, but with the calculation changes, it simply does not cut it anymore. Especially since his abilities require a lot of micro-management, a thing which no other tank in the game requires to this extent.

       

• Inaros simply needs to build for HP, and use his 4, and perhaps use a grace set (or two if you're a crazy person). The simplest tank in the game.
• Rhino simply requires a group of enemies to build up Ironclad Charge's bonus. Refreshing it via discharging his 2 after charging into a group of enemies, and then pressing 2 once more. Relatively simple.
• Nekros simply needs to keep killing enemies, and press 4 to maintain his shadows. A surprisingly hardy frame considering his typical role as loot king.
• Chroma has to press 2 over and over to keep ward up, and has to also micro manage getting hit for his 3 to build, and also has to recast his 3 to maintain that buff. Very costly powers for a high power strength build which is essentially every viable Chroma build.

For Chroma, there's a lot of clicking going on for what is essentially just upkeep for the sake of upkeep, whereas with other tanks there's not much you need to do once you've set up.Due to how their timers are the same, but only one is recastable the micro-management becomes quite annoying at times, and draws away from gameplay. So some tweaks and buffs here couldn't hurt.

Effigy

Chroma's 4 is where the Dragon theme is supposed to come into its own, but in actual use it ends up being a major let down. Weak offensive capabilities, generally inconsistent CC, and a massive energy cost are all that you get from Effigy. Furthermore in order to use Effigy like a mobile turret (an inconsistent turret), you must sacrifice a mod slot for its augment, which on a mod hungry frame like Chroma, makes it even less practical for general play. Several improvements need to be done to make Effigy worth using, and furthermore as awesome as a Dragon should be.

Wrath of Dragons - Rework 1.1

The basis of this rework is to make Chroma a solid tank at base, whilst keeping and expanding his more complex attributes as options for more calculating players.

Passive - Spectral Scream

Spoiler

Description: 'A chance to terrify enemies after slaying one.'

Technical Details: Killing an enemy has a 5% chance to cause a scream which terrifies all enemies within 10 meters for 15 seconds. (This is equivalent to the effects of rank 1 Terrify, just as Glint is equivalent to rank 1 Radial Blind.)

• SFX & VFX: The sound queue of Effigy's roar goes off along with a flash of the chosen element as with casting Elemental Ward.]
• Enemies under the effects of this passive have their armor temporarily reduced by 10%.
• Armor reduction is based on total armor.
• The effects of this passive are unaffected by mods or warframe abilities.

Ive given Chroma a passive similar to that of Gara. This new passive gives Chroma a minor level of CC with some enemy armor reduction. Thematically I believe it follows the mythology of dragons, in that they have an innately frightening presence.

1. Elemental Alignment

Spoiler

Description: 'Become an avatar of elemental destruction. Chosen energy color determines starting element.'

Stats	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Scales w/Mods
Energy Cost	25				Yes
Duration	15s	19s	24s	30s	Yes
Bonus Elemental Damage	+20%	+26%	+32%	+40%	Yes
Bonus Status Chance	+20%	+26%	+32%	+40%	No

The purpose of this change is to give Chroma flexibility with element choice, to change when needed, this allows him to adapt to his enemies on the fly. The bonus damage granted by Elemental Alignment is calculated like an elemental mod, which improves mod variety on equipped weapons, as one can substitute an elemental mod for a utility mod, like putting Hush on a sniper rifle, or using Seeking Fury on a shotgun.

• Holding the ability key switches the selected element, and the original element is based on chosen energy color. Simply pressing the key activates the buff.
• Elemental Alignment does not need to be active to apply element changes to other abilities.
• The status chance bonus is an additive bonus to equipped weapons and abilities.
• For the purposes of Vex Armor's damage multiplier, the bonus damage granted by Elemental Alignment is calculated after Fury's multiplier, just like elemental mods.
• Elemental Alignment can be recast while active.

Augment - Afterburn

Description: 'Elemental Alignment Augment: When the ability ends, Chroma is enveloped by an elemental burst, dealing 300 damage'

• SFX & VFX: An explosion effect similar to a syndicate proc goes off along with the sound effect of Spectral Scream. (This way the asset isn't thrown away)
• Projectile changed to an AoE blast with a range of 18 meters which deals 300 damage-which scales with power strength and warframe abilities. Damage also takes the damage bonus of Elemental Alignment into account at the moment of detonation.
• The blast forces the proc of the element active during the cast.

The change to the augment is meant to make it worth using in general play. Currently the single-target property seems only marginally useful for Conclave. So with a minor nerf to damage, but a switch to an AoE, I believe this is workable in PvE builds. As for Conclave, it wont do anything it doesn't already do.

2. Vex Armor

Spoiler

Description: 'When shields are hit, Chroma's armor grows stronger, when health takes a hit, weapon damage increases. Active for a limited time, maximum increases corresponding to rank .'

Stats	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Scales w/Mods
Energy Cost	50				Yes
Duration	12s	18s	24s	30s	Yes
Damage Redirection Radius	9m	11m	14m	18m	Yes
Damage Reduction	+26%	+32%	+40%	+50%	Yes*
Damage Multiplier	+200%	+240%	+280%	+320%	Yes

The reason to change Vex Armor's position is a simple one. Elemental ward is a more complex ability, and to further flesh that out I've moved it down to Chroma's 3.

Say what you want about DR, the fact of the matter is that it is currently the most effective method at gaining survivability in Warframe. The alternative requires either extremely high health totals, or extremely high armor values. The former is only really possible with Inaros, or a very high power strength Heat Chroma, and the latter is only possible with a very high power strength Cold Chroma or Valkyr Prime. Atlas reaches this level, but has decaying armor which forces extremely repetitive gameplay involving only 2 of his abilities, while the others are completely ignored.

Ability based DR is a facet found on several frames, with Mesa getting up to an astounding 95%, but only against projectiles. Mesa's niche is being the highest targeted DPS warframe currently in the game. Nezha and Gara provide a combination of CC and damage vulnerability, along with some moderate DPS. For Chroma I instead want him to retain his role as a tank, whilst also loosening up the mod limitations on the frame.

Currently with well over 200% power strength you will have roughly 70% of the survivability he used to have. This limits build choice, and forces Chroma gameplay into a fairly narrow niche which can be filled better by other frames. Setting the benchmark for his DR at 185% power strength frees up some mod slots for Chroma users to branch out into other roles, and depending on element usage, completely different niches.

• Vex Armor is recastable when active.
• Vex Armor's DR and damage bonus only applies to Chroma.
• Damage taken by allies within Vex Armor's range is instead dealt to Chroma. Frames which utilize abilities that require damage to be taken will still benefit from incoming damage.
• Damage redirection does not apply to object-based defense objectives.
• Damage resistance builds up at a rate of 0.285 per point of shield lost.
• Damage multiplier builds up at a rate of 2.85% per point of health lost.
• Damage resistance scales with power strength but caps out at 90% at 185% power strength.
• Vex Armor's benefits does not stack with another Chroma, instead the highest buff takes priority.
• In the case of two instances of Vex Armor and both have equivalent power strength the damage is redirected to the source with the highest HP value.
• Casting Vex Armor when Elemental Ward is active reduces its energy cost by 25%.

Augment - Vexing Retaliation

Description: ‘Vex Armor Augment: Taking 150 damage will trigger an 18m burst. Shield damage will cause a corrosive proc while health damage marks enemies to take 50% more damage from all sources.’

• SFX & VFX: No changes
• Damage taken is calculated prior to DR or damage resistances.
• Either burst has a cooldown of 5 seconds.
• Burst radius is 18 meters, which scales with range mods.
• Bonus damage does not scale with power strength mods, but the bonus will stack if a target is marked more than once in the same cast.
• Marked enemies will take additional damage for as long as the ability remains active and recasting the ability will refresh the timer.
• Marked targets who leave the radius remain marked until the ability ends. If Vex Armor is recast, the mark remains for the remainder of the previous cast.

Changes here are pretty simple, giving the augment a utility spot with armor reduction, on top of granting some bonus damage against more hardy threats.

3. Elemental Ward

Spoiler

Description: 'Depending on Chroma's elemental alignment, an offensive area-of-effect is created. Chroma and his nearby allies are imbued with defensive energy.'

Stats	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Scales w/Mods
Energy Cost	75				Yes
Duration	12s	18s	24s	30s	Yes
Aura Range	9m	11m	14m	18m	Yes
Proc Resistance	+28%	+35%	+44%	+55%	Yes*
Primary Resistance	+38%	+48%	+60%	+75%	No
Secondary Resistance	+19%	+24%	+30%	+37.5%	No
Health Regeneration	0.8%/s	1.2%/s	1.6%/s	2.0%/s	No

The main purpose of this change is to expand upon Elemental Wards wide variety of potential uses. A slight improvement to duration to match Vex Armor, and a bevy of resistances based on currently chosen element will make Chroma a truly formidable tank, and potent support to squishier allies. Depending on threat Chroma will be able to modify his defenses and counter them, just as he is hinted at being able to do in The New Strange quest. This also pushes him closer towards that chromatic dragon theme. Cold Ward fulfills the true tanking role, Heat Ward makes Chroma an invaluable guardian for his team, Electric Chroma allows for high speed combat and energy gains, Toxin Chroma turns the smallest cut into a lethal wound.

• Elemental Ward is recastable when active.
• Primary and secondary resistances are based on the element chosen at the moment of casting.
• Proc resistance scales with power strength and caps out at 100% at 185% power strength.
• Health Regeneration has a 12% chance to activate when damaged by an enemy, and the heal lasts for 12 seconds.
• Chroma and affected allies are immune to knockdowns.
• Casting Elemental Ward when Vex Armor is active reduces its energy cost by 25%.

Cold Ward

Stats	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Scales w/Mods
Armor Bonus	225	300	375	450	Yes
Slow Strength	22%	27%	34%	42%	Yes*
Decay Rate Per Second	42%	34%	27%	22%	Yes

• Procs against Chroma and affected allies are inflicted on all enemies within range.
• Enemies within 18m are slowed by 42%. Slow strength scales with power strength mods and caps out at 75% at 185% power strength.*
• Enemies leaving the area of the aura lose the slow debuff at a rate of 22% per second, decay rate scales with duration mods.
• Primary Resistance: Cold
• Secondary Resistances: Blast, Cold, Viral, Magnetic

Electric Ward

Stats	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Scales w/Mods
Energy Orb Chance	+26%	+32%	+40%	+50%	No
Mobility Bonuses	+13%	+16%	+20%	+25%	Yes
Slam Damage	+22.5%	+30%	+37.5%	+45%	Yes

• Mobility bonuses refer to movement speed, parkour velocity, aim glide, and bullet jump, and scales with power strength mods.
• For the purposes of Vex Armor the bonus damage granted by Electric Ward is calculated after Fury's multiplier, just like elemental mods.
• Every 5 seconds Chroma emits a pulse of electricity which marks enemies in range. Marked enemies have a 50% chance to drop an energy orb upon death. Mark duration scales with duration mods, and enemies which leave the range of elemental ward remain marked for 10 seconds.
• A slam attack forces an electric proc in a 9 meter radius.
• Primary Resistance: Electricity
• Secondary Resistances: Corrosive, Electricity, Magnetic, Radiation

Heat Ward

Stats	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Scales w/Mods
Health Bonus	225	300	375	450	Yes
Revive Speed	+22.5%	+30%	+37.5%	+45%	Yes
Health Regeneration	0.8%/s	1.2%/s	1.6%/s	2.0%/s	No
Burn Damage	80	120	160	200	Yes

• Revive Speed applies to both reviving allies, and being revived yourself.
• Health Regeneration stacks with health regeneration of Elemental Ward. Granting 4.0% health regeneration per second.
• Enemies in range have a 10% chance to be set ablaze every 5 seconds. The chance to burn is not affected by strength mods, but is affected by elemental alignment.
• Primary Resistance: Heat
• Secondary Resistances: Blast, Gas, Heat, Radiation

Toxin Ward

Stats	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Scales w/Mods
Fire Rate & Reload Speed	+22.5%	+30%	+37.5%	+45%	Yes
Tick Damage	+22.5%	+30%	+37.5%	+45%	Yes
Status Duration	+28%	+35%	+44%	+55%	Yes*
Toxin Damage	80	120	160	200	Yes

• Tick Damage applies to status procs which deal damage over time. Heat, Toxin, and Slash.
• Status Duration caps at +100% at 185% power strength.
• Enemies killed by you will spread any unfinished DoT procs to the enemy nearest to you.
• Enemies in range have a 10% chance to be poisoned every 5 seconds. The chance to poison is not affected by strength mods, but is affected by elemental alignment.
• Primary Resistance: Toxin
• Secondary Resistances: Corrosive, Gas, Toxin, Viral

Augment - Everlasting Ward

Description: 'Elemental Ward Augment: Allies that leave the radius will retain the effect for 100% of the remaining duration.'

• Anyone under the effects of Elemental Ward will retain the benefits of the current cast for the remainder of its duration if Elemental Ward is recast and they are not in range.

4. Effigy

Spoiler

Description: 'Chroma turns his pelt into a massive sentry that strengthens nearby allies and engulfs enemies in elemental attacks.'

Stats	Rank 0	Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Scales w/Mods
Energy Cost	100				Yes
Pelt HP	460	575	720	900	Yes
Pelt Armor Multiplier	0.5x	0.65x	0.8x	1x	Yes*
Aggro Range	15m	19m	24m	30m	Yes
Invulnerability Duration	2s	2s	3s	4s	No
Stun Range	12m	15m	19m	24m	Yes
Stun Duration	2s	2s	2s	3s	No

DoT Aura

Radial DoT Range	9m	11m	14m	18m	Yes
DoT Damage	26/t	32/t	40/t	50/t	Yes
DoT Status Chance%	5%	6.5%	8.0%	10%	No
DoT Tick Rate	2	2	3	4	No

Breath Attack

Breath Attack Range	12m	15m	19m	24m	Yes
Cone Diameter	1.2m	1.5m	1.9m	2.4m	Yes
Breath Attack Damage	13/t	16/t	20/t	25/t	Yes
DoT Status Chance%	100%	100%	100%	100%	No
Breath Attack Tick Rate	4	5	6	8	No

As Chroma's 4th ability a lot of people feel Effigy should simply be removed altogether. However I've done what I can to try and make Effigy into an ability that can fulfill its described role, whilst also supporting your team as an aggro-based turret.

• Effigy remains for as long as it has HP remaining.
• Effigy is recastable when active. Recasting refreshes Effigy’s HP, and also moves it to your location. Simply tapping 4 once ends the ability, Holding 4 and releasing when Effigy is active recasts the ability.
• Effigy’s armor multiplier scales with armor mods.
• Effigy will prioritize using its breath attack on enemies with the highest Armor within range. If no enemies in range have armor, Effigy will instead target the enemy with the highest HP.
• Damage dealt by Effigy’s DoT and Breath Attack scale with power strength and warframe abilities.
• Changing Elemental Alignment and recasting Effigy causes the damage types to combine, dealing that combined status for the remainder of the current Effigy cast. Recasting Effigy resets its damage type to the chosen (single) element.
  • Cold    +Electricity    = Magnetic
  • Cold    +Heat    = Blast
  • Cold    +Toxin    = Viral
  • Electricity    +Heat    = Radiation
  • Electricity    +Toxin    = Corrosive
  • Toxin    +Heat    = Gas
• Effigy will unleash a stunning wave of energy when it sustains 450 damage. Enemies affected are stunned for 3 seconds. This effect cannot proc more than once every 10 seconds. This stunning wave does not activate during the invulnerability phase.
• If Effigy is cast while Vex Armor and Elemental Ward are active it will act as a second source for those abilities.

Augment - Guided Effigy

Description: 'Effigy Augment: Cast and hold to make Effigy move to your aim point. Deals 2000 damage per second to enemies in its path and roars on arrival stunning nearby enemies.'

• Energy cost of recasting is reduced by 50% when moving Effigy. However recasting no longer refreshes Effigy's HP.

In Summary: I believe many of us can agree that it has been disappointing to see Chroma Prime come without any hint of a rework. To that end I decided to try my hand at one, but ultimately it is down to DE to rework him, and specifically to make him worth playing for the rest of us. What I ask of all of you, who wish to see Chroma made better, is to keep your criticisms civil, and constructive, as simply getting angry at each other serves no purpose whatsoever.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Nox_Terminus
Additional changes, Formatting

[Jkola]

I've watched this guy make this rework for about a week or so, and I think it's really good. This would make Chroma 10 times better than what he currently is. PABLO BLESS

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

What was the best chroma could do? Can't remember the exact numbers but it didn't multiply (his armor x5) x5 did it?

Old Chroma could get up to 98.7% DR with just Vex.

[Cubbage]

This is honestly the best rework concept thread I've read. I honestly got nothing I don't like about this thread, other than the fact it makes me look at Chroma currently and think "why aren't you more like this?" which is the entire point. Someone higher up at DE needs to look at this, because this works incredibly well.

 

Also points for sticking to the theme of the frame, and making it work so goddamn well. 👍

[TatsuyaMitsumura]

....Infact I just wanna know it's already sept 25 why when i check it Chroma Prime still not online yet...?

[Atsia]

13 minutes ago, TatsuyaMitsumura said:

....Infact I just wanna know it's already sept 25 why when i check it Chroma Prime still not online yet...?

Cause they don't update the moment the clock turns to the day? Updates don't come till like 5-6 p.m. E.T

[Cubbage]

33 minutes ago, TatsuyaMitsumura said:

....Infact I just wanna know it's already sept 25 why when i check it Chroma Prime still not online yet...?

Why would you honestly bother commenting this on a rework concept thread, this doesn't add anything to the discussion in the slightest.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Thaylien:

Old Chroma could get up to 98.7% DR with just Vex.

Just vex, maximised armor, maximised strength ... basicly by sacrificing his kit and by using ice what could...reflect rockets?

I'm asking for the numbers. Did it multiply his armor rating by 25 with ease? By 40 if you try while buffing his HP pool on a allmost ridiculous recast efficiency? Or did it scale beyond that by actually considering incomming damage to further raise his pool? Highest i've seen from that time was 987% -> x10...sure his basearmor was bigger but it's technically still less armor on less HP - compared to a rhino with a balanced build.

I really don't believe that it was that unique to him even before the nerf and no way did it excuse him beein in the state that he was.

Edited September 25, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Birdframe_Prime]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I'm asking for the numbers.

Alrighty...

If I can find the thread... it may even show me up for over-estimating.

Ah, here, from 2015's research:

Does that help?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb Thaylien:

Alrighty...

If I can find the thread... it may even show me up for over-estimating.

Ah, here, from 2015's research:

Does that help?

Yes it does, thank you.

I'll just copy this from this thread

What we have with Rhino on 200% power strength with 5 enemies hit is 577 x25 - a armor rating of 14.425 warding 2.400 extra HP. More then Chroma could manage on similar numbers.

8 enemies hit result in 23.080 armor still warding 2.400 armor, what's still more then what chroma could manage assuming the gain is also multiplicative the way vex operated....what i safely assume.

Optionally one could raise the power strength to similar numbers, in that case both the armor gain and multiplier would rise to 142% per enemy and a iron skin multiplier of  7,1.

In this case 5 enemies hit would result in 577 x7,1 x 7,1 = 29.086,57 armor on 3.408 health... something that should be closer to a 99,something % reduction really. What that shows is that Vex armor really wasn't something special...at least not special enough to nerf it to 1/4th of what it could do. They might as well raise his vex armor buff should they ever revert this calculation to its prior state...

 

. Best combo in terms of Armor / Damage Reduction >

BALANCED BUILD (from CASE 2)

COLD + Max Steel Fiber + Max Vitality + 200 % Power Strength (or more)
> Armor attained  = 9371.25 up to 12495 Armor(23855.75 up to 31761 HP) ( 96.898 % up to 97.655 %)

 

MAXED BUILD (from CASE 5 - Alternate Version 3)

COLD + Max Steel Fiber + Max Vitality + 284 % Power Strength
> Armor attained  = 16594.83 up to 22126.44 Armor (41673.914 HP up to 55518.552 HP)(98.224 % up to 98.662 % Dmg Reduction)

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)BLACKSPECTRUM77]

This concept overall seems well thought out and was a good read. I would love to play the version of Chroma described here. If I were to point out the most minor of flaws in the entire post, it would be that there is currently no base ability duration listed in the chart for ranks 1, 2, and 3 of Effigy. The only duration's listed for that ability, at the time of this comment, are for the stun and invulnerability period. Again very minor criticism in an otherwise fantastic rework thread. Well done.

Edited September 25, 2018 by (XB1)BLACKSPECTRUM77

[maddragonmaster]

18 hours ago, DeadlyCreation said:

the moment when you see hotfix incoming and secretly hope its a chroma rework.... sad times....

yeah its a bit of a sad thing. but heres a tip give up any hope for a rework any time soon. because as i keep on hearing because of the reason chroma is being frequently used for eidolon's his statistic's show him in one of the most used frames, so they are going to focus on the less used frames before they work on ones like chroma. hey thats the reason why we got that nezha rework rather then a needed chroma rework. what the heck was wrong with nezha to require a bit of rework? on a scale between chroma's snore fest kit and nezha's more active kit?

Edited September 25, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[m0b1us1]

19 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Why does Chroma deserve to jump the line?

Jump the line? He has been needing a rework since his release and his entire identity was gutted with the nerfs.

All chroma had was bulk and damage. Both where heavily nerfed. Justified or not.

Imagine if DE took vauban, then changed his 3 to only work on 3 enemies at base, and ultimately just nerfed his CC abilities. All vauban has is his CC. Nerfing the one thing a frame does well is a huge nerf that hurts the frame far more than if anything else changed. 

Other than eidolons, where chroma is used for only a single ability, name 1 other place where chroma does well now. No where. He isn't nearly as tanky as before so he isn't a strong solo tank, and his damage really isn't needed anywhere else. So right now, the only reason that people use chroma is for a single ability in a single mission type.

Do you honestly think that's fine? For a frame to be so pigeon holed that they are only used for 1 ability in 1 mission? 

[m0b1us1]

18 hours ago, Thaylien said:

It's a really tough thing for people to actually come to terms with after changes; DE do make changes after changes, but they don't do Reverts.

Chroma's Vex Armour is not his only ability, but it is the one that was broken. They fixed it, brought its power back to the calculations they say it should have had all along, and it's only then that you realise just how much work the rest of the frame needs.

There was no skill to Chroma before. Yes you had to build for Vex in particular ways, but there was no skill. You turned it on, took the required amount of damage, usually from Self Damage, and then moved on. You were a damage-buffing weapons platform that could live long enough to use the weapons, nothing more.

What Chroma needs is the rest of him buffing to compensate for that broken ability that used to carry the frame.

Change up his 1, we don't enjoy being stuck in an animation for such a small result. Even with the buff from Vex it's not a good cast as it is. Maybe make it a burst, cone of effect, that puts on Status. Maybe have it incorporate a mechanic for changing his base element.

Buff his 2. Everlasting Ward is a band-aid and DE knows it, incorporate that, buff the range, make the four types of buff more impactful on the game. Cold can reflect projectiles and up his survivability, so make it an actual Damage Reduction, not just another boost in Armour. Give it a radial slow on enemies and grant that aura at 50% effectiveness to your allies after the cast if they move away. Toxin currently does reload and holster speed, buff it to give speed overall, movement, parkour velocity, reload, holster rates, and increase that chance of damage from the Toxin aura.

And, for the love of RNGesus, take another go at his 4. It's a placed turret that can deal damage and CC. That could be so strong. With a Vex buff, the damage on Effigy is actually fairly good for most levels, it's also Status, but the CC range is so low, the Aggro range is so low, and the overall Utility of it is low (credits? Really?)

Concentrate Effigy into Area Denial, with his pulses and breath having more range and more affect, and switch the Utility to be a Rally Point for players, adding to the buffs that Chroma can give out, and giving players a buff point that isn't a roaming Chroma player. Compensate for that loss of base effective health by making sure that enemies can't actually approach the place you're defending and have to actually shoot a floating coat instead of you.

Chroma's other abilities could be so... so good.

And they aren't. And everyone's just so damn concentrated on Vex Armour.

Just a minor thing, self damage chroma was only really seen after the nerf since vex armor was recastable which eliminated the need for 400 shields to gain the full armor buff. So self damage was used after to make sure that one got the full armor buff before taking a lot of hits. Also in eidolons, the damage taken can be unreliable or drain energy, which is a lot more valuable now that you have to cast it far more often and can't rely on rage to recover the energy.

So self damage chroma only was a popular thing for eidolons. Which is all chroma is used for now. Pre-nerf you just needed vigor at least for 400 shields and much needed HP. The enemies would reliably take care of the rest.

[maddragonmaster]

On 2018-09-23 at 11:14 AM, ZodiacShinryu said:

That isn't a reason to be called "cheesy" or we may as well stop releasing warframes (and then delete like at least a third to half of what we already have) considering they are generally 3/4 just reconfigured old abilities. It is just as thematic to put the swap mechanic on him because it is part of him as his lore. Besides unlike the other examples Chroma's actually could be made into a unique function if DE actually wanted to spend a little more time on it than the bare minimum (unlike Vauban).

Are we playing "which came first? the chicken or the egg?" I can agree that exploiting multiple weaknesses isn't a huge thing for Warframe in its current state but does it matter which comes first? Enemies and mission types need a overhaul and so does Chroma. And there are a handful of missions where it is slightly relevant even if Vex reduces most burdens. The possibility if Tau and Sentients also could make it useful.

I mean weapons in general invalidate most powers on most frames. Entirely another can of worms.

Also, I know how Heat Ward works. It worked better when it wasn't limited to a cast of Ward. But you are assuming a lot of what happens in the swap mechanic. You get the health boost once per Ward cast even for allies. Allies leave the radius and come back they don't get the bonus health but the max health cap increases. It is entirely possible that switching your element wouldn't trigger you getting health back just like as if you got out of range of your own ward; and you need to wait for a recast. Chroma could be subject to the same rules as everyone else. If people want to "exploit" the boost they would be better just asking for Ward recast like Vex.

here is another reason i do not want a dam elemental swap replacing spectral scream. it would make his boring kit even more freaking boring. plus being called "master of the elements" doesn't mean you the dam avatar. it means he can survive about anywhere and be anywhere.   they aren't specific enough to dictate him being master of elements whether nature or other.  heck thats what "when all land is in ruin, tenno, chroma will remain" means. it doesn't mean master of 4 elements and what not. 

also the so called lore aka codex says A master of the deadly elements, Chroma can alter his damage output by changing his energy color. so his "lore" basically already states what his abilities allready do and would prove his lore as false if an elemental swap ability was added.

and in opinion he doesn't do the survival thing any good either. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[m0b1us1]

18 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

here is another reason i do not want a dam elemental swap replacing spectral scream. it would make his boring kit even more freaking boring. plus being called "master of the elements" doesn't mean you the dam avatar. it means he can survive about anywhere and be anywhere.   they aren't specific enough to dictate him being master of elements whether nature or other.  heck thats what "when all land is in ruin, tenno, chroma will remain" means. it doesn't mean master of 4 elements and what not. 

also the so called lore aka codex says A master of the deadly elements, Chroma can alter his damage output by changing his energy color. so his "lore" basically already states what his abilities allready do and would prove his lore as false if an elemental swap ability was added.

and in opinion he doesn't do the survival thing any good either. 

Spectral scream could do both. Tap to change elements and push and hold to activate the other part. 

Imagine if instead of chroma just blowing on enemies, it was more like the aoe roar of effigy. The longer you charge it, the larger the radius. Make it a cc ability that leaves an area of effect buff or rebuff depending on the element. 

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb m0b1us1:

Spectral scream could do both. Tap to change elements and push and hold to activate the other part. 

Imagine if instead of chroma just blowing on enemies, it was more like the aoe roar of effigy. The longer you charge it, the larger the radius. Make it a cc ability that leaves an area of effect buff or rebuff depending on the element. 

changing elements doesnt do shi*t if DE doesnt rework his elements overall. fire is okay -> ice is a worse fire -> poison and electric are just useless. so before thinking about ONLY implementing elemental swap DE should rework the elements in the first place. make each unique and usefull. 

[maddragonmaster]

28 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Spectral scream could do both. Tap to change elements and push and hold to activate the other part. 

Imagine if instead of chroma just blowing on enemies, it was more like the aoe roar of effigy. The longer you charge it, the larger the radius. Make it a cc ability that leaves an area of effect buff or rebuff depending on the element. 

did you not read the "alter his damage output by changing his color"  bit that is said in that dang codex/lore you guys keep on talking about?  i mean seriously i just took a dang look to check if you guys were telling the dam truth. but no, you guys were making up the lore in your head all along to try and sell you "give him an element swap ability". he doesn't need a element swap ability. no faction will need elemental swapping and it will be a stupid move to enforce the need of element swapping if they do jumble up the resistances in each faction.

also you guys seriously call that bit lore? i call it explaining his powers simply.

Edited September 25, 2018 by maddragonmaster