Analysis: The heavy inflation of rivens due to platinum economy and lack of disposition monitoring - leading to unsustainable prices and possible countermeasures

[SilverRook]

i was going to make an entire post about how rivens are a crutch and given out like candy - but then realised..... i'm on the forums...

 

[wargthewarg]

3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

The Rivens that exist currently will likely not be affected by disposition changes unless they continue to be rolled (even then they might not be)...So any Riven acquired before the disposition changed goes up in value. Changing disposition will, likely, only impact the value of new Rivens of that item...DE has no relevant excuse to adjust old Rivens for an oversight on their part.

The Riven balancing as DE has done it affects all rivens. Given how long they've not balanced, both versions of implementing balance would cause an uproar anyway. It's a mess no matter how they approach it.

That's why it's a bit weird they're willing to create new 5 dispo Prime weapons when they've pretty much stopped with Primed mods (except some fluff ones) as some form of balancing. There are a lot of signs that DE is indeed making plenty of money from rivens and quite enjoying it as well.

[Hypernaut1]

18 minutes ago, wargthewarg said:

The Riven balancing as DE has done it affects all rivens. Given how long they've not balanced, both versions of implementing balance would cause an uproar anyway. It's a mess no matter how they approach it.

That's why it's a bit weird they're willing to create new 5 dispo Prime weapons when they've pretty much stopped with Primed mods (except some fluff ones) as some form of balancing. There are a lot of signs that DE is indeed making plenty of money from rivens and quite enjoying it as well.

I mean... What's wrong with DE getting massive amounts of money from rivens anyway? Why is this seen as a bad thing? 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Loviam]

DeSteve: The riven system is a ball we have dropped. That we will pick back up

Not gonna lie. Steve's voice, the tone he took when saying this. And my personal sadism make this statement very satisfying. Purely because I can't wait for the hearts of those spending ridiculous amounts of plat on rivens to break because their weapons disposition just dropped to 1/5 and their riven because effectively worthless

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, wargthewarg said:

The Riven balancing as DE has done it affects all rivens. Given how long they've not balanced, both versions of implementing balance would cause an uproar anyway. It's a mess no matter how they approach it.

DE has only re-balanced all rivens, once and did so at the same time they instituted disposition iirc. 19.0.6

They reduced disposition in 19.4.2 and I do not recall my Attica Riven having been increased then to fit the new disposition... I wouldn't have complained though 😃

I am inclined to agree with the rest of your assessment though....It's reminiscent of a Bugs Bunny cartoon Regardless of whether it's Wabbit or Duck Season...somebody's getting blasted.

 

2 hours ago, wargthewarg said:

That's why it's a bit weird they're willing to create new 5 dispo Prime weapons when they've pretty much stopped with Primed mods (except some fluff ones) as some form of balancing. There are a lot of signs that DE is indeed making plenty of money from rivens and quite enjoying it as well.

Agreed...But DE makes money when people buy plat.

People buying plat aren't routinely spending thousands of dollars to buy Rivens though which is why pricing players who buy plat out of the riven market is bad.

[Me.KayOh]

On 2018-09-23 at 3:28 PM, Omega said:

How about you tell me about what you mean by that instead?

What I wrote, is simple english.

If you don't understand that, then it makes no sense I write more things which would also be written in simple english.

[Omega]

1 hour ago, Me.Church said:

What I wrote, is simple english.

If you don't understand that, then it makes no sense I write more things which would also be written in simple english.

I would appreciate it if you wrote what you meant in the comments.  Perhaps I see things differently than you.  No point being on the forums if you're not looking to contribute to the discussion.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Omega

[Me.KayOh]

2 hours ago, Omega said:

I would appreciate it if you wrote what you meant in the comments.  Perhaps I see things differently than you.  No point being on the forums if you're not looking to contribute to the discussion.

I did contribute. You did not follow my advice apparently and that's ok. You do you.

[Bl00dRedRage]

I will agree that disposition needs to actually bloody change, at least quarterly. It is a joke that they implement this system that was supposed to encourage more variety weapon use but hasn't done that. You have the Tiberon with 5 while the Tonkor and Simulor are still at 1. People paying ridiculous prices for rivens though is on them, the fact is rivens with those "god rolls" are absolutely not needed to complete any of the content in this game at all, whatsoever. If they were I would be more sympathetic. If it were up to me I would make it so that rivens were not tradable at all but of course that won't happen because it is a source of income for DE. Rivens are just a terribly implemented idea. 

[Yatazanami]

i dont know what to say at this point , i am advocating to your benefits people , consumer benefits , i am not asking for something impossible

A- DE actually give a damn and start regulating the riven system every week

B- Remove it all  and stop this madness that is going in the game market and gameplay wise

C- Rework the system, theres many suggestions on how to do it right and i am asking everyone to contribute his ideas in this thread and we discuss them .

but saying the system is alright and nothing have to change is just plain stupid man even DE themselves admitted they dropped the ball they're not saint .

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Yatazanami

[Yatazanami]

13 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Do pardon me for saying this...Every time someone mentions current dispositions as a major contributing factor it tells me they aren't seeing the actual problem.

i said its going to fix current gram madness in the market now , and i see the actual problem , read my previews comments and you will see my points

13 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Ham-fisted repairs and additions can do more harm than good long term by cluttering the reward pool even further which creates more rarity and inflates perceived value. If DE wanted to drive down prices they could just as easily have added an AH and been done with it.

but no repairs at all or maybe a riven disposition once every 500 day is alright right ? 🤪 , the rarity is created largely from the disposition level for the god-like weapons and heres an ex:

 Tigris is a monster but have 1 riven disposition , so no one give a damn about its riven

Spoiler

now lets compare that to the other underground-god Kohm with 5 freaking stars disposition

Spoiler

now even a mentally disabled person can see the huge deference so please dont tell me the disposition have no major play in this cancer

and keep in mind those are powerful weapons that have working legs they need no freaking crutches and have no right to benefit from this system.

but DE wants to make money from this tragedy that is largely they're responsibility so the players is at fault here right ?

and this is my main conclusion on the riven system as whole :

de made the riven system at the promise its going to make underused and weak weapons usable so the whole system is flawed from the start since its

just crutches for bad game design but they took this even further and made riven for every damn gun in the game even the one that have 10 hands and

30 legs (they need no crutches duh) did you see anyone asking for hurbak rivens ? or Tiberon rivens before they ascended him into GOD-HOD ?

because i freaking didnt .

Edited September 25, 2018 by Yatazanami

[(PSN)nating51]

Personally, I don't even like the whole riven system and how it crashed the market and the trade chat. Basically, it's a huge slot machine system where you spend *a lot* of time on farming kuva hoping to get nice stats for a mod you'll *hope* to sell for a good amount of platinum. No gaming abilities nor interesting stuff to do involved in the whole process: only a *huge* amount of time wasted on RNG. At a certain moment, the process is pretty pointless *to me*. Once, when I've started on Ps4, there weren't rivens. If you want to earn platinum you had to farm prime sets and you sold them for a decent price. End of the story. It was time consuming as well, but really efficient and made the market quite balanced. Now you can find ppl selling prime warframe sets at 30p, so the market of prime parts is worth no more so much. Now it seems you *have* to sell rivens to earn a decent amount of plat. Fact is that I'm mr24, and I spend platinum almost only on unnecessary stuff (cosmetics and rivens, basically). If I had to start a new playthrough from scratch on Warframe (with a lot of slots, weapons, mods to buy), I doubt I'll do it, considering how non-sense the whole riven market system seems to me. But hey, it's just a personal opinion, hope you continue to enjoy it as ever. :) Cheers.

[Yatazanami]

6 hours ago, Bl00dRedRage said:

I will agree that disposition needs to actually bloody change, at least quarterly. It is a joke that they implement this system that was supposed to encourage more variety weapon use but hasn't done that. You have the Tiberon with 5 while the Tonkor and Simulor are still at 1. People paying ridiculous prices for rivens though is on them, the fact is rivens with those "god rolls" are absolutely not needed to complete any of the content in this game at all, whatsoever. If they were I would be more sympathetic. If it were up to me I would make it so that rivens were not tradable at all but of course that won't happen because it is a source of income for DE. Rivens are just a terribly implemented idea. 

i second this ! and for people who dont know how the riven system is working right now here is a very funny but true example :

if you had to choose between becoming :

Thanos  [Tigris] 1 Riven disposition star

Thanos + The Infinity Gauntlet [Kohm] 5 Riven disposition star

replay with your choice xD .

Edited September 25, 2018 by Yatazanami

[LupisV0lk]

And yet again the select few are still either unwilling/incapable to fathom the massive fallout DE would have on their hands just for touching the rivens.

[Yatazanami]

1 hour ago, LupisV0lk said:

And yet again the select few are still either unwilling/incapable to fathom the massive fallout DE would have on their hands just for touching the rivens.

oh please i already showed you a very strong argument on how your ''hell will break loss and the sky will fall if DE fix the game reeeeeee''is total BS

here its again quote :

did that ever stop DE from nerfing  Nekros desecrate loot chance , changing pilfering swarm from begin effected by power strength (please dont insult me by saying it was a bug)

making ore gaze augment for atlas cap at 50% chance for loot to drop and much more, because when it comes to DE bottom line

they dont give a flying duck about your feeling

------------------------------------------------------------

  On 2018-09-24 at 5:54 AM, LupisV0lk said:

Oh i know that. But like damage 2.5 any sort of serious rework to "core" gameplay/mechanics is neigh impossible due to this community and it's incessant need protect the status quo.

please dont use that old and tired ''this community'' excuse 

DE is the one who call the shots , they can force all of that on us and we will eat that meatloaf right up ( fanboys will eat extra)

when they removed the wall hack for the melee they made they're own excuses and made it in a tune of ''take it or leave it'' and the reason for that is people was

using it for painless afk farming (as you know DE wont have that) 

but when it come to the actual cancer that (no denying it is making them ton of money) they will hide behind any excuse the fanboys makes for them even if it means

this game demise.

-------------------------------------------------------------

so argue the point and stop strawmanning .

Edited September 25, 2018 by Yatazanami

[LupisV0lk]

1 hour ago, Yatazanami said:

oh please i already showed you a very strong argument on how your ''hell will break loss and the sky will fall if DE fix the game reeeeeee''is total BS

here its again quote :

did that ever stop DE from nerfing  Nekros desecrate loot chance , changing pilfering swarm from begin effected by power strength (please dont insult me by saying it was a bug)

making ore gaze augment for atlas cap at 50% chance for loot to drop and much more, because when it comes to DE bottom line

The argument you've given is weak at the best and not even in the same ball park at the worse.

Were you around when Damage 2.5 came out? Or how about when melee 3.0 was announced? If you were you'd dam right know what i'm talking about, but hey keep parroting about small things instead.

But please keep on crusading as to mask the real reason why your so pissy....methinks you can't get the rivens you want, therefore the age old saying of If i can't have it, no one can has come to pass.

Edited September 25, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[Yatazanami]

1 hour ago, LupisV0lk said:

The argument you've given is weak at the best and not even in the same ball park at the worse.

Were you around when Damage 2.5 came out? Or how about when melee 3.0 was announced? If you were you'd dam right know what i'm talking about, but hey keep parroting about small things instead.

But please keep on crusading as to mask the real reason why your so pissy....methinks you can't get the rivens you want, therefore the age old saying of If i can't have it, no one can has come to pass.

dude i know about everything that DE release , even the forgotten promises and the botched content , and yes you can tell i read 'patch-notes' and watch devstream

and browse twitter for answers from the devs themselves and also lurk in the forum  so please dont question my knowledge

quote : The argument you've given is weak at the best and not even in the same ball park at the worse.

c'mon baby i know deep down you agree with me , community outrage never stopped DE from changing stuff and i am not talking about ''bugs' and ''exploit' here

if you're blind that DE is profiting out of flawed system that they created with they're own hands and falsely promised us to be the savoir of the weak and underused weapons 

then i dont know how to reason with you any more ,because you clearly understand my points but you dont want to argue them fairly because you have ulterior motives.

and how many times i need to keep telling you I AM A FREAKING VETERAN , i have everything in this game even the rarest of the rare riven and that have jack💩 to

do with my crusade to PURGE the cancer and FIX the damn game by implementing good game design choices instead of quick buck crutches .

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Yatazanami

[PookieNumnums]

Its simple really. Players will ask whatever they want, and that is affected by their efforts and by what they see in the market. If i think my stats are better than yours i will charge more. Some also are trying to get back what theyve put in on items theyve techincally lost profit on. I.e. youre paying for the boosters time and rolls on the players other rivens when you buy a good or godly one.  

The solution is simple.  Make rolled rivens untradable. 

Then, the only high dollar ones will be perfect unrolled rivens.

Or likewise they could add in a method of locking in stats making bettwr tiered rivens infinitely more common.

[ElKayJae]

I think there's no use arguing about all these here since @[DE]Steve already knows of the issue. It's up to them when they want to get to it, I have lost hope debating here since it's not going to change anything. The developers know of the problem, we can only wait and hope they get to it.

 

Unless someone can really force and answer from DE on when they are gonna act on it nothing we say here will really matter 😕

[Dougram]

Still wont be a solution for the people complaining in threads like these.  Nothing will make them happy as long as someone else has something they don't.  Even if they made it so you could choose what weapon your riven was for they would still complain that they couldnt get as good a roll as someone else or that they cant get every riven that someone already has that has played longer than them.  Even the new login system won't be enough because even though you can choose your reward you still can't get them all right away like other people already have.

the only way complaining like this over rivens will stop is if DE made all the rivens the same disposition and have the same stats AND gave every single player whatever rivens they wanted for every weapon they wanted to use.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Dougram

[SneakyErvin]

9 hours ago, Yatazanami said:

i said its going to fix current gram madness in the market now , and i see the actual problem , read my previews comments and you will see my points

but no repairs at all or maybe a riven disposition once every 500 day is alright right ? 🤪 , the rarity is created largely from the disposition level for the god-like weapons and heres an ex:

 Tigris is a monster but have 1 riven disposition , so no one give a damn about its riven

  Reveal hidden contents

now lets compare that to the other underground-god Kohm with 5 freaking stars disposition

  Reveal hidden contents

now even a mentally disabled person can see the huge deference so please dont tell me the disposition have no major play in this cancer

and keep in mind those are powerful weapons that have working legs they need no freaking crutches and have no right to benefit from this system.

but DE wants to make money from this tragedy that is largely they're responsibility so the players is at fault here right ?

and this is my main conclusion on the riven system as whole :

de made the riven system at the promise its going to make underused and weak weapons usable so the whole system is flawed from the start since its

just crutches for bad game design but they took this even further and made riven for every damn gun in the game even the one that have 10 hands and

30 legs (they need no crutches duh) did you see anyone asking for hurbak rivens ? or Tiberon rivens before they ascended him into GOD-HOD ?

because i freaking didnt .

You are implying they sell regularly at those prices, but they dont. Look at the left cullumn of each single post. They've all been up there for plenty of time without selling at those prices. And the asshat demanding 50k for his Kohm riven sits at a pretty bad roll. Negative slash% on a weapon you want to proc slash procs with? #*!% no I dont want that. The one for 8000 is also just as counter productive. They've gone blind on focusing on the +status chance. The rivens arent worth those plat and will likely never sell unless someone with too much plat and no braincells decide to buy one of them. The ones way down there costing far less are much much better.

You've simply shown a list of mods people want absurd amounts for, mods they think are "god" rivens but in reality arent. So there is no major difference in the prices. None of the riven shown are actually that good. Maybe one or two of the tigris rivens along with the four or so bottom Khom riven are. It just shows people love to think they have great rivens when in reality they dont.

There is a reason why they havent sold for weeks or months.

[Rakosta_Kai]

6 hours ago, Yatazanami said:

i said its going to fix current gram madness in the market now , and i see the actual problem , read my previews comments and you will see my points

Why would they change the disposition for a currently underused weapon just to curb speculation?

I have read what you have had to say so far and most of it falls under my initial comments on disposition.

6 hours ago, Yatazanami said:

but no repairs at all or maybe a riven disposition once every 500 day is alright right ? 🤪 , the rarity is created largely from the disposition level for the god-like weapons and heres an ex:

 Tigris is a monster but have 1 riven disposition , so no one give a damn about its riven

now lets compare that to the other underground-god Kohm with 5 freaking stars disposition

now even a mentally disabled person can see the huge deference so please dont tell me the disposition have no major play in this cancer

Actually no disposition repairs for almost 2 years...compared to potential alternatives? Yes, that's more alright than DE making a new catalog of Primed Chambers.

...or absolutely wrecking their reputation by allowing this issue to linger and nuking 2 years worth of items and purchases...Talk about buyers remorse.

As to the rest,comparing apples to apples the averages on the weapons you supplied were...

Tigris: 3700

Kohm: 6944

I arrived at this using only the Rivens with 4 tiers and removing the 50k riven because the price is astoundingly speculative (riven asks buyer to pay 50k for a slash weapon with the slash removed)

Now I'm no mathlete myself but that appears to be almost twice the cost for about 25-30-ish% extra performance because of hype built around disposition (given your assertion)

While that is certainly a noticeable uptick....I personally don't view that difference as particularly dire when compared to the exponential increases to the prices themselves.

As such, the fact that the values compared are 3700 vs 6944 as opposed to us comparing values of 370 vs 694 for the same respective weapons is what concerns me.

Put simply, You are concerned about pricing being increased by a factor of almost 2...I am concerned about pricing being increased by a factor of 10.

...Do you see?

8 hours ago, Yatazanami said:

but DE wants to make money from this tragedy that is largely they're responsibility so the players is at fault here right ?

Depends on what "tragedy" you are referring to...

The actual prices themselves? Players all day...DE doesn't set prices.

Or how about?

• The lack of controls on pricing? 
• Means to remove plat from circulation? 
• Utter lack of protections provided to their premium currency? 
• Lack of relevant visible competition allowing prices to be controlled?

...All of that is on DE.

Of course, once the median of those prices hits the thousands we are in Frankenstein's Monster territory...The prices have now hit a point where DE won't make (as much) money from plat purchases because most players won't purchase plat in the amounts needed to afford these inflated rivens...Even the garbage ones.

Now it's just constantly circulating old plat.  

But hey, you and the OP can keep worrying about dispositions, plat discounts, simulated cancers, tragedies, random hyperbole, and cry emojis if that's what floats your boat. 

...Who am I to judge?

Have a great day.

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You are implying they sell regularly at those prices, but they dont. Look at the left cullumn of each single post. They've all been up there for plenty of time without selling at those prices. And the asshat demanding 50k for his Kohm riven sits at a pretty bad roll. Negative slash% on a weapon you want to proc slash procs with? #*!% no I dont want that. The one for 8000 is also just as counter productive. They've gone blind on focusing on the +status chance. The rivens arent worth those plat and will likely never sell unless someone with too much plat and no braincells decide to buy one of them. The ones way down there costing far less are much much better.

You've simply shown a list of mods people want absurd amounts for, mods they think are "god" rivens but in reality arent. So there is no major difference in the prices. None of the riven shown are actually that good. Maybe one or two of the tigris rivens along with the four or so bottom Khom riven are. It just shows people love to think they have great rivens when in reality they dont.

There is a reason why they havent sold for weeks or months.

yea none of those Kohm rivens were even godrolls lol

[Yatazanami]

42 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You are implying they sell regularly at those prices, but they dont. Look at the left cullumn of each single post. They've all been up there for plenty of time without selling at those prices. And the asshat demanding 50k for his Kohm riven sits at a pretty bad roll. Negative slash% on a weapon you want to proc slash procs with? #*!% no I dont want that. The one for 8000 is also just as counter productive. They've gone blind on focusing on the +status chance. The rivens arent worth those plat and will likely never sell unless someone with too much plat and no braincells decide to buy one of them. The ones way down there costing far less are much much better.

You've simply shown a list of mods people want absurd amounts for, mods they think are "god" rivens but in reality arent. So there is no major difference in the prices. None of the riven shown are actually that good. Maybe one or two of the tigris rivens along with the four or so bottom Khom riven are. It just shows people love to think they have great rivens when in reality they dont.

There is a reason why they havent sold for weeks or months.

so you're telling me that nobody buy rivens for 2k or 5k or even 8k ? where have you been when scoliac was the 💩? and where are you now with Gram and

Rubico prime are selling for even more than that ?

you clearly making excuses and peaple going after ''god'' rivens for ''god-tier' guns are largely the fault of DE , they implemented this system for a clear goal in

mind and please read carefully' To Make Underused and Mediacore Weapons Valuable' so even a brain dead person can see its a flawed system and a crutch

and who is the whole beneficiary from all this mess ? DE you genius , its all easy money for them, and they're in total control of the whole tragedy from all sides 

they can tweak and prime and nerf and buff and fix crap when they feel like it so its all on them and they're not taking any step to stop this cancer from growing

and not even protecting the players from themselves when they see they're own players selling crutches for insane amount of money, and for who i might ask ?

for freaking superman weapons that can fly 

do you know how many years took DE to remove a future that was making them a lot of money from the game ? Days , and they barged about it for PR reasons

here is the proof

i beg you to watch the video before you make a response to it  so we dont keep arguing on useless matters that have nothing to do with the my points ,

now compare that to the Riven System , a System that effect the core game for crying out loud and people are using it for the opposite intended way DE wanted

this a clear sway from the principles DE claimed they're holding themselves up to , and not only that no sir , they're even making cheap moves to benefit from this 

go check the last 3 Prime Accesses weapons and tell me what pattern you notice with each one ?... hint hint

Spoiler

POWERCREEP

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Yatazanami

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

6 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

argue the point instead of big giant strawman 😫

 

the point is that people can price whatever they want and people can spend how much they want, but in reality no one will pay thousands of plat for trash or ok rolls. Some of those rivens were ok but they certainly dont meet many people's expectation as a groll. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by (PS4)AZN_RH