Creating a warframe from scratch [SPOILER ALERT!!!]

[FollowTheFaceless]

1 hour ago, (PS4)bigob_84 said:

I have said something similar to this in the past,  don’t count on it, when I did I got hated on.  I do think it could be awesome, having Oberons healing 3, with Nyx mind control 1, Valkers 4, and Excalibur’s raidial blind 2,  and top it off with with passives,

 

It would give Warframe Vets something to do while waiting for me content to drop and complete in a week or two.

Granted I am still working on Revenant.  But I have seen plenty of them running around already.

 

1 hour ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

I will try to put in my custom combination...

1) Methamophosis (Equinox)

2) Energy Vampire [Trinity] (Night)/ Hall of Mirror [Mirage]  (Day)

3) Iron Skin [Rhino] (Night) / Miasma [Saryn] (Day)

4) Exalted Blade [Excalibur] (Night)/ Peacemaker [Mesa] (Day)


The combo -
EV with Iron skin with Exalted blade night aspect
Hall of Mirror with Miasma with Peacemaker.

The clones from Hall of Mirror will be able to perform Exalted Blade/ Peacemaker to amplify/ increase damage
with duration build.

17 hours ago, FollowTheFaceless said:

I never said anything about taking existing frames abilities and combining them for custom frames. BECAUSE IT IS GONNA BE BUGGY MESS. I'm talking about 2-3 variants for each ability, created exclusively for those frames. 8-12 abilities total to choose from.

[RX-3DR]

Aesthetic design also becomes a problem together with rigging the model to animations. You will usually end up with a pile of lego parts that may or may not fit properly with another piece. If there's a change in sizes, especially if you're talking about customizing gender since the body sizes are very different, the models will require its own separate animation rigging. It's an extremely risky variation of success in the design actually coming together nicely at end unless they put in a ton of work into just a single frame. It's either that, or they just draw up a few designs, slap them all together, and you would end up looking more mutated than the Infested with certain combinations. There is really only 3 results that can happen out of this.

• A ton of work is sunk into this, constantly requiring the design to bounce back and forth to ensure that each piece will fit with another perfectly, resulting in the design of a specific component changing back and forth as more parts are added.
• Skip out on the work, 3 set of designs and just slap them all out as individual parts without any concern about whether the 3 sets will match properly. More often than not, this will completely spoil the design aspect.
• A blank slate is made and each part is kept as close to the original design. This is the most boring option since it defeats the purpose of letting players build the appearance when all it is is just some minor attachments and different textures. They can just introduce new attachments and skins to do that.

You see this happen in many games where equipment comes in their own distinct set,  mixing them ends up looking terrible, creating an aesthetic vs function situation. I think DE is neither willing to sink in 3x or more of the effort just to functionally create a single frame, nor introduce something that has no distinct design or doesn't fit into the game's universe.

In the end, it would be easier to take that pool of 12 abilities and build 2 or 3 individual frames with their specific themes rather than pull off a Equinox situation except you're lock to 4 abilities unless you build a completely new frame. At least in that situation, the design, modeling and rigging can be done in a single pass. If the idea of a more customizable ability set is to be approached, it would be more practical to tie it into a subsystem that is attached to the frame like the Mandachord rather than to bake it into the frame.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Flandyrll

[GunRaptor9000]

Building customized warframes has always been the intended purpose of the Helminth Infirmary....that's what the pod in the back is presumably for.

[Tsukinoki]

20 hours ago, FollowTheFaceless said:

After The Sacrifice quest some truth been revealed about our personal dentist Helminth. That is involved in warframes creation process. What if WE get an opportunity to create our own from scratch? Completely custom, just like modular weapons? We can choose it's appearance, gender, abilities, passive... I think it might be cool.

I'm NOT taking existing frames abilities and combining them for custom frames. BECAUSE IT IS GONNA BE BUGGY MESS. I'm talking about 2-3 variants for each ability, created exclusively for those frames. 8-12 abilities total to choose from.

Those abilities might be linked to chosen body parts during creation process, while the main body (infested flesh) determined the main stats (hp, shields, armor, etc.) and also comes in few chooseable variants.

Do you know how broken and buggy this is going to be?  Even with just a small selection of 3 different possible abilities for each slot?
And how is mastery going to be considered for this?  What singular part of the design will decide the master rank you get?

Further whats to stop what happened to Amps happening here?  After all pretty much everyone uses one specific amp because it is hands down the best.

Also this brings up an important balance issue.
It would be way too easy to min-max it to the point where you only need one stat and can dump all the others.
Its already a problem with some of the base frames, such as Loki only needing duration or range and can just dump the other stats and not suffer any consequences, and the same thing would very likely happen here.  What would the balancing factors be to prevent that from happening?
And what's to stop someone from choosing a super tanky body and yet have super powerful caster like abilities, meaning that they get the full benefits of being a tank and the full benefits of being a caster with absolutely no downside?

Finally though how would the abilities be themed?
Unless all 12 abilities are thematically similar it would just be one big steaming disjointed mess.
And yet having all 12 abilities be thematically similar would also be boring and would push people towards "Build the one useful variant and use that, don't even think of using anything else because they are objectively inferior!"

In the end you're idea has a lot of problems and questions that need to be solved and answered before DE can even think to implement it.
Your idea lacks any kind of balancing factors or reasonable limits...

13 minutes ago, GunRaptor9000 said:

Building customized warframes has always been the intended purpose of the Helminth Infirmary....that's what the pod in the back is presumably for.

Any actual sources for this beyond just wild claims of "This is what this background detail is supposed to be!  I swear I'm right even though I have literally no evidence or anything else!"

Edited October 10, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[FollowTheFaceless]

2 hours ago, Flandyrll said:

Aesthetic design also becomes a problem together with rigging the model to animations. You will usually end up with a pile of lego parts that may or may not fit properly with another piece. If there's a change in sizes, especially if you're talking about customizing gender since the body sizes are very different, the models will require its own separate animation rigging. It's an extremely risky variation of success in the design actually coming together nicely at end unless they put in a ton of work into just a single frame. It's either that, or they just draw up a few designs, slap them all together, and you would end up looking more mutated than the Infested with certain combinations. There is really only 3 results that can happen out of this.

• A ton of work is sunk into this, constantly requiring the design to bounce back and forth to ensure that each piece will fit with another perfectly, resulting in the design of a specific component changing back and forth as more parts are added.
• Skip out on the work, 3 set of designs and just slap them all out as individual parts without any concern about whether the 3 sets will match properly. More often than not, this will completely spoil the design aspect.
• A blank slate is made and each part is kept as close to the original design. This is the most boring option since it defeats the purpose of letting players build the appearance when all it is is just some minor attachments and different textures. They can just introduce new attachments and skins to do that.

Same as dressing up Tenno - that's what I had in mind. No need to complicating things.

 

2 hours ago, Flandyrll said:

In the end, it would be easier to take that pool of 12 abilities and build 2 or 3 individual frames with their specific themes rather than pull off a Equinox situation except you're lock to 4 abilities unless you build a completely new frame. At least in that situation, the design, modeling and rigging can be done in a single pass. If the idea of a more customizable ability set is to be approached, it would be more practical to tie it into a subsystem that is attached to the frame like the Mandachord rather than to bake it into the frame.

That's why I talked about binding skills to body parts: head - 1st skill (literally first, under button "1"), hands - 2nd, legs - 3rd, body - 4rd. And flesh inside - main stats (hp, shields...)

And maybe the ability to SWAP them on already built frame (maybe)... 

[FollowTheFaceless]

1 minute ago, Tsukinoki said:

Do you know how broken and buggy this is going to be? 

It's not. Because you don't know either how it's gonna work in real.

2 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

And how is mastery going to be considered for this?

By chosen flesh under armor. 3 at least.

8 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

In the end you're idea has a lot of problems and questions that need to be solved and answered before DE can even think to implement it.

I'm not a dev, so why I should waste my time to think through all the details?

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

2 hours ago, FollowTheFaceless said:

I'm not a dev, so why I should waste my time to think through all the details?

Because if you HAD thought of all the details there wouldn't be 3 pages of people telling you how awful this would be to implement.

[FollowTheFaceless]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Because if you HAD thought of all the details there wouldn't be 3 pages of people telling you how awful this would be to implement.

If IT guaranteed to be ingame, then I'll do. 

[Tsardova]

28 minutes ago, FollowTheFaceless said:

If IT guaranteed to be ingame, then I'll do. 

And you call people pessimistic....

If you're so optimistic about your idea then you would be proactive; thinking of the possible issues ahead, the finer details in said concept, realizing how realistic or not said idea is.

"Here's my idea! I think it's good but I won't be bothered of thinking about the nitty gritty details of possible roadblocks as well as the Return of Investment! Why? Not my job~"

 

...... Let that sink in dude. You're feigning ignorance at criticisms that could very well have made for building blocks to your idea, instead you call people out as pessimistic or worse still, THIS particular reply of yours of not giving a dang. It's essentially starting something but not wanting to go through with it when posed with a "roadblock"/ reality that your concept isn't as easy as it was in your mind to realize.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Tsardova

[FollowTheFaceless]

8 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

And you call people pessimistic....

If you're so optimistic about your idea then you would be proactive; thinking of the possible issues ahead, the finer details in said concept, realizing how realistic or not said idea is.

"Here's my idea! I think it's good but I won't be bothered of thinking about the nitty gritty details of possible roadblocks as well as the Return of Investment! Why? Not my job~"

 

...... Let that sink in dude. You're feigning ignorance at criticisms that could very well have made for building blocks to your idea, instead you call people out as pessimistic or worse still, THIS particular reply of yours of not giving a dang. It's essentially starting something but not wanting to go through with it when posed with a "roadblock"/ reality that your concept isn't as easy as it was in your mind to realize.

I described the idea superficially, but at the same time quite understandable. If you do not have enough imagination to go on with the thought, then this is your own problem.

[(XBOX)D00M INCARNATE]

Since so many people are opposed to zawframes, why not make it so each warframe has multiple choices for its abilities. It makes sense that an infected person reacts and grows in power different from another. Even if they turned out to be the same warframe, it doesn't make sense that they have the exact same abilities.

This is also my explanation for skins. Different people, different variations of the same infection.

[Atsia]

3 hours ago, FollowTheFaceless said:

If IT guaranteed to be ingame, then I'll do. 

You do understand that IS NOT how any of this works, right? You don't just suggest an idea then completely abandon it, "it's not my job". Yes, it IS your job, you're the one who gave the idea. YOU have to flesh it out, YOU have to give proper details, and YOU have to account for potential issues if you want DE to even consider it, which they're not likely to even do since this is in General Discussion which they barely go into.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

I love this idea even though I know it cannot work; it would totally throw this game out balance (what little it has).

[Oreades]

Personally I already don't really care for the "modular" system we have because it really isn't exactly modular and you end up needing to level your not very modular Item twice to get the MR out of it. 

Plus if the Warframe "modules" where just slight variations on each other...... it's pretty much just mods and we already have those in the form of mods. I mean maybe it gives min/maxers even more room to min/max but honestly I think they should be shifting to rewarding experimentation instead of punishing people who don't pigeonhole themselves into a finite build. 

[Tsardova]

8 hours ago, FollowTheFaceless said:

I described the idea superficially, but at the same time quite understandable. If you do not have enough imagination to go on with the thought, then this is your own problem.

Not sure if you're saying that as you look at a mirror or what.

If you wanna be condescending, at least try and have a compelling argument/ stand. If people lacked imagination, they wouldn't have thought ahead of the possible risks that comes with it and conclude the RoI just isn't worth it. Instead you keep on belittling others with a snarky attitude when posed with a roadblock that others  point out instead of engaging in a constructive discussion.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Tsardova

[RX-3DR]

14 hours ago, FollowTheFaceless said:

Same as dressing up Tenno - that's what I had in mind. No need to complicating things.

 

That's why I talked about binding skills to body parts: head - 1st skill (literally first, under button "1"), hands - 2nd, legs - 3rd, body - 4rd. And flesh inside - main stats (hp, shields...)

And maybe the ability to SWAP them on already built frame (maybe)... 

Goes to the problem I described where parts will usually not fit together nicely because of the variation in design. We already see a lot of this with many of the Operator suits where it's really difficult to mix a lot of the sets together and the ones you can mix are usually the most generic ones. 

I like how all the practical points are thrown out the window over a vague idealistic dream. I'm saying, this idea, no matter how much people might like it, is a very impractical way to handle things and by track record, DE would likely design 2 or 3 frames out of a pool of 12 abilities with their unique theme and look than to mash it all into a complicated mess.