Adaptation

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Let me try it first, you can nerf it after that, if you want

[Ailyene]

I thought I should remind people that this mod is currently bugged and gives way more damage reduction than it should for way longer than it says more often than not.  I literally end up with 100% damage reduction to everything forever after just 10 minutes in any mission.

Also if this mod pushes a frame that can tank level 250 mobs to being able to tank level 300 mobs does that make a difference even?  Inaros\Nidus cannot even hurt a level 250 Grineer by himself without CL daggers (takes like 20 shots of a rivened Opticor to kill a cat at that level when I tried) and it took me 4 hours to get mobs that high a level in Arbitrations.

As with anything that gives damage reduction I really only benefit from it when mobs can actually hurt me, which by that point having to tank hits to be able to tank hits becomes a calculated risk.  And there's a question of if I will even still be able to hurt them at that point for it to matter.

If we could win by just being immortal alone Wukong would actually be meta for something.

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Klokwerkaos:

might offer maybe make this cap at three damage types and replace with a new one one the oldest one runs out if it doesn't refresh.  That would at least give the mod SOME semblance of balance, or maybe reduce effectiveness to 50% instead of 90% or something

If it was capped at 50% its almost useless.
The bonus that Adaptation provides has two large disadvantages:
a) it needs to be ramped up and thus cannot save you from strong one-shot-damages at first
b) if an attack has multiple damage types it will only save you from the dominant one. Even if it was 51% to 49% the 90% reduction will only apply to the 51% type and the rest 49% will go straight through unless they are adressed elsewhere.

All in all?
Its a 12 cost mod which adds some good resistances! It neither needs a buff nor a nerf... its fine as it is now.

[Peter]

9 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

If it was capped at 50% its almost useless.
The bonus that Adaptation provides has two large disadvantages:
a) it needs to be ramped up and thus cannot save you from strong one-shot-damages at first
b) if an attack has multiple damage types it will only save you from the dominant one. Even if it was 51% to 49% the 90% reduction will only apply to the 51% type and the rest 49% will go straight through unless they are adressed elsewhere.

All in all?
Its a 12 cost mod which adds some good resistances! It neither needs a buff nor a nerf... its fine as it is now.

You're answering someone who has not even tested the mod, just read the "90%" and thinks it's going to be tank like a stalker.

[WARLOCKE]

Adaptation is a quick fix for how worthless shields are in this game. Until shields get armor, or gating, or another mechanic most frames are going to get one shot post 120.

[FireSegment]

5 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I might offer maybe make this cap at three damage types and replace with a new one one the oldest one runs out if it doesn't refresh.  That would at least give the mod SOME semblance of balance

as enemy in one faction not always have that damage type diversity, i don't think this would change anything. You almost always have electric, puncture in corpus, toxin and slash in infested, impact and blast in grinner, those would almost always on.

also i think the bug of the mod is that it would ... apply the reduction before letting you take the hit that suppose to prod it and the actual reduction percent is in practice higher than 90%. So it would be the same case with Quick Thinking all over again - they would need to fix the bug fast, or stuck with it as an accidental feature.

[Albion_Vortigern]

Entire playerbase: jesus [DE]  can you please make our frames survive longer we're tired of being one shot, even my tanks can't keep up
[DE]2018: fine but you still need to get shot, this only works on frames that can get shot, you also need to reach the full end game and it needs 30,000 endo. we're not making this universal.

OP of this thread: loud complaining and screeching why does DE want to make their game more balanced??????????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mac0CZbB44M

here is an educational video

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Fast_Pickle

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Peter:

You're answering someone who has not even tested the mod, just read the "90%" and thinks it's going to be tank like a stalker. 

Oh i have tested it.
It's now a standard mod in my Oberon, Nekros, Trinity and Nezha.
And since when is the stalker a tank? 😄

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

hace 3 minutos, DarkRuler2500 dijo:

Oh i have tested it.
It's now a standard mod in my Oberon, Nekros, Trinity and Nezha.
And since when is the stalker a tank? 😄

He mens the stalker from the second dream, when you didnt have the SPOILER beam

Edited October 17, 2018 by (PS4)ZERO_ghost90

[Ailyene]

7 hours ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

b) if an attack has multiple damage types it will only save you from the dominant one. Even if it was 51% to 49% the 90% reduction will only apply to the 51% type and the rest 49% will go straight through unless they are adressed elsewhere.

Ouch, I didn't notice this until this sortie where it would give me nothing but radiation resist and didn't do anything about any other damage types.

And since the stacking glitches got fixed, those shotgun Corpus in ESO take off a good ~100 HP even at 90% resist now on my fairly tanky Saryn for the same reason.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Ailyene

[Peter]

Quote

Chimera: Hotfix 23.10.4

• Fixed the Adaptation Mod sometimes making players completely invincible.

End of thread.

[Klokwerkaos]

5 hours ago, Fast_Pickle said:

Entire playerbase: jesus [DE]  can you please make our frames survive longer we're tired of being one shot, even my tanks can't keep up
[DE]2018: fine but you still need to get shot, this only works on frames that can get shot, you also need to reach the full end game and it needs 30,000 endo. we're not making this universal.

OP of this thread: loud complaining and screeching why does DE want to make their game more balanced??????????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mac0CZbB44M

here is an educational video

 

It's good to know that YOU speak for the entire player base, and further, that, any outside view is something you will handwave away as noise.

Considering all your time on the forums I'm sure you've got your hand on the pulse of everything that goes on here 😕

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Klokwerkaos:

It's good to know that YOU speak for the entire player base, and further, that, any outside view is something you will handwave away as noise. 

I remember those times as well. There were times in 2017 where you could not go into the forums without reading the same thing mentioned by @Fast_Pickle all the time. The damage incoming in high-levels was becoming interesting during these times because of the scaling fissure rewards and because of the 3x Void Damage multiplier in Sedna-road in the Void. So yeah, he's right.

[Xzorn]

I'm not entirely convinced the mod works the way the wiki claims. That or DE is being inconsistent as usual.

"Resistance" in all other sources such as Auras and mods like Toxic Resistance, Lightning Rod and Antitoxin have all been additive modifiers. Not multiplicative. This would be the only occurrence of  "Resistance" being multiplicative that I'm aware of.

The difference being that additive at max stacks would take the 50% bonus Puncture gains against Ferrite and change it to (1.5 - 0.9 ) = 0.6 or 60%. So 100 incoming damage would be reduced to 60 and not ( 100 * 1.5 *( 1- 0.9) = 15 damage.

Either way please stop parsing against Heavy Gunners. It's not realistic at all and even for testing purposes Impact has a negative modifier against Warframe Health. Pick a neutral 100% damage type.like Blast from Bombards. It would make it far easier to test and if you wana parse use more than one enemy type.

[Fallen_Echo]

54 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I'm not entirely convinced the mod works the way the wiki claims. That or DE is being inconsistent as usual.

"Resistance" in all other sources such as Auras and mods like Toxic Resistance, Lightning Rod and Antitoxin have all been additive modifiers. Not multiplicative. This would be the only occurrence of  "Resistance" being multiplicative that I'm aware of.

The difference being that additive at max stacks would take the 50% bonus Puncture gains against Ferrite and change it to (1.5 - 0.9 ) = 0.6 or 60%. So 100 incoming damage would be reduced to 60 and not ( 100 * 1.5 *( 1- 0.9) = 15 damage.

Either way please stop parsing against Heavy Gunners. It's not realistic at all and even for testing purposes Impact has a negative modifier against Warframe Health. Pick a neutral 100% damage type.like Blast from Bombards. It would make it far easier to test and if you wana parse use more than one enemy type.

The only reason they test against gunners is because they are easy to survive against and provide quick ramp-up what also makes their entire testing flawed.

As you said trying against bombards, snipers, nullfiers, noxes would provide more merit and would also show that this is not a miracle mod.

[Klokwerkaos]

3 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The only reason they test against gunners is because they are easy to survive against and provide quick ramp-up what also makes their entire testing flawed.

As you said trying against bombards, snipers, nullfiers, noxes would provide more merit and would also show that this is not a miracle mod.

When I go to test this on my alt nidus I'll use this method to skew it in that direction for actual field testing and compare it to an excal for control and loki for worst case scenario to give a reasonable comparison.

[Zi-Sui]

But you need to take damage within 20 sec to keep the Adaptation stack for each element. If enemies are killed too fast and/or you forget to take damage, you could be screwed. I'm not sure I want Adaptation for my Inaros because of this, it defeats the point of being an unconditional tank.

[DeMonkey]

This thread is some next level poetic irony. I think everyone else has covered the generic irrational overreaction, so I'll get the rest.

- If you don't like it, don't use it.

- If you don't want to play with others using it, form a squad.

- Who are you to try and take people's fun away from them? Who are you to determine how people should be playing? If everyone wants to be tanky then why not?

You are given options to avoid the mod, if you don't want to use them then that's entirely on you... blah blah blah I suspect my point has been made.

As for my genuine response, I can see where you're coming from with regards to tanks losing their niche, and if it were a good and viable niche I'd agree that this was a bad thing... but as it is, to be a tank in Warframe is simply to take a lot of damage, you can't take damage for your team, you can't control aggro, you don't really have a role. Thus there's nothing that you're really losing.

Up until TWW the main role of the tank was to be a revive bot, and even that isn't necessary anymore.

As others have said, it's not going to make to make much difference to the hyper tanks in the game, and allowing squishy frames like Banshee or Ember to take two or three more shots is no bad thing imo. Time will tell how effective it is.

[Fallen_Echo]

11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

but as it is, to be a tank in Warframe is simply to take a lot of damage, you can't take damage for your team, you can't control aggro, you don't really have a role.

The only tank setup what i ever seen capatable of fullfilling the traditional tank role is the Nyx tank with aggro and damage absorb shield setup, but even in this case you are using a weapon to become a true tank.

[DeMonkey]

35 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The only tank setup what i ever seen capatable of fullfilling the traditional tank role is the Nyx tank with aggro and damage absorb shield setup, but even in this case you are using a weapon to become a true tank.

You're using a weapon and having to block, which unfortunately means you're not taking part in the game (especially when you consider the loss in mobility). But yes, I agree that that is the closest we have to a true "tank" in Warframe.

Maybe one day we'll have more defining roles, but I doubt it.

Edited October 17, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 3 heures, Fallen_Echo a dit :

The only reason they test against gunners is because they are easy to survive against and provide quick ramp-up what also makes their entire testing flawed.

As you said trying against bombards, snipers, nullfiers, noxes would provide more merit and would also show that this is not a miracle mod.

I did some mixed testing and while it isn't a miracle mod it's still pretty damn good to be honest. 

And since the last hotfix fixed the invulnerability bug and touched nothing else I'm about to go on a forma spree ❤️ My Atlas, Chroma, Oberon, Inaros, Khora, Nezha, Saryn, Nidus, Trinity, and Valkyr are about to be much happier as well 😄

[CrazyValkyr]

It honestly doesn't seem to do much for me after yesterday's hotfix. To put it in perspective, I run around 3k armor Valkyr (after Warcry buff) - and Adaptation does little to no difference after yesterday's hotfic. While it was a tad too much before the hotfix, now I see very little, to no difference between me running the Adaptation and not running Adaptation. Not sure that is intended... but I guess it is. <.<

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, CrazyValkyr said:

It honestly doesn't seem to do much for me after yesterday's hotfix. To put it in perspective, I run around 3k armor Valkyr (after Warcry buff) - and Adaptation does little to no difference after yesterday's hotfic. While it was a tad too much before the hotfix, now I see very little, to no difference between me running the Adaptation and not running Adaptation. Not sure that is intended... but I guess it is. <.<

This mod wont show extreme results on a frame with already high as hell dr.

Supposedly what we gathered each enemy attack can only increase one resistance type so if you get hit by a weapon dealing 220 slash, 200 puncture and 100 impact you will only gain one resistance stack of slash because the mod only takes into account the highest damage type of each attack.

That means that a good 300 point of damage slips throught it like its nothing.

 

[cerarose7]

Im sorry but arent we all a team in the game? why complain about strong warframes?

Edited October 17, 2018 by cerarose7

[Peter]

31 minutes ago, cerarose7 said:

Im sorry but arent we all a team in the game? why complain about strong warframes?

because they have nothing better to do, and the mod was already fixed in the last update but they keep fighting, I already reported it to the moderator but nothing happened.

Let's see how this conversation ends without basics.