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Where are the irl like weapon skins?


General_Durandal
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They showed some real life weapon skins for weapons,
like a double-barreled shotgun, and what looked like a Glock like pistol,(and others)
what feels like months ago.

Haven't heard anything about it since.

Did they get flooded with "don't do it" messages, so they aren't going to do it anymore?

Also, I'd like to be able to use skins on my Zaws and Kitguns.

Edited by General_Durandal
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Don't know about the skins for them, but to my knowledge we know no more than you do.

Skins for Kitguns and Zaws are, at present, impossible due to Modular Weapons having their stats tied to their mesh for some reason. Meaning replacing the mesh with a skin would remove the stats. I don't know why they did that, but they did.

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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Don't know about the skins for them, but to my knowledge we know no more than you do.

Skins for Kitguns and Zaws are, at present, impossible due to Modular Weapons having their stats tied to their mesh for some reason. Meaning replacing the mesh with a skin would remove the stats. I don't know why they did that, but they did.

WHAT
that does not sound like true to me and if it was,it would be minimal problem to fix

Kit-things are way too ugly atm,we need em sweet skins

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11 minutes ago, ---Merchant--- said:

WHAT
that does not sound like true to me and if it was,it would be minimal problem to fix

Kit-things are way too ugly atm,we need em sweet skins

it was told to be that way by a de employee in forums. and from what he said it was far from minimal. 

and they gotta balance how powerful they are as well.

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13 minutes ago, ---Merchant--- said:

WHAT
that does not sound like true to me and if it was,it would be minimal problem to fix

Kit-things are way too ugly atm,we need em sweet skins

 

Quote

Dear Tenno,

 


We are sorry that we have not been able to add skins to the Zaws - and we won't be able to anytime soon. This issue is... surprisingly complicated, so let's walk through it so we're all on the same page.

 

The system for re-working skins for Zaws is much more complicated than it might appear. The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon. The Mesh determines how the Zaws function, and to change the skin of the weapon would mean changing the functionality of each individual piece for the Zaw. Zaw's and Exodia both require the base assets, looking at the way Balance meshes and projectiles work means that changing the meshes would totally change the performance of the weapon in-game.

We are not saying this will not happen, but it would be a massive undertaking on our end to change the cosmetics when we’re devoted to making other changes at the moment. We’re just saying it's not going to happen anytime soon.  

Thanks Tenno!

P.S. I'm [DE]Marcus, I'm new here but I'll see you around!

That's the post @Zeclem is referring to.

Edited by DeMonkey
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If you are talking about these... https://forums.warframe.com/topic/847379-about-the-upcoming-proto-weapon-skins/

I don't know what happened to them; three options spring to mind though: DE forgot them, DE had to set them aside to work on other content, or DE ultimately decided the style was NOT a good match for the game ('cause it isn't really).

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Doesn't make coding sense to tie the weapon stats to the mesh. The other way around seems more likely. The issue with zaws is that the mesh determines the weapon's collision hitbox and hence the damaging regions/range. This would mean the skins would majorly rekt the collision boxes of the zaws and ... cause problems there as the shapes are all completely different.

Exodias for the same reason - Exodia contagion launches the strike of the zaw so putting a skin on it is one good way to bug exodia contagion.

Kitguns on the other hand are GUNS. There's really no reason to not be able to use pistol skins. They do have the most beautiful projectiles in game, though

Edited by Guest
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13 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

it was told to be that way by a de employee in forums. and from what he said it was far from minimal. 

and they gotta balance how powerful they are as well.

Well,you can just take some basic model(existing weapon,skin it) and rotate stats according to the parts used
In the end difference between 30 magazine size and 40 magazine size are 10 bullets not some special functionality that is crazy hard to recreate.
I'm impressed that they would create this sort of complication,i would expect them to put less effort in to zaws and have it more "streamlined" system.

This is not dig at DE,exactly the other way around. Some weird system indeed.

 

Edited by ---Merchant---
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1 minute ago, ---Merchant--- said:

Well,you can just take some basic model(existing weapon,skin it) and rotate stats according to the parts used
In the end difference between 30 magazine size and 40 magazine size are 10 bullets not some special functionality that is crazy hard to recreate.
I'm impressed that they would create this sort of complication,i would expect them to put less effort in to zaws and have it more "streamlined" system.

This is not dig at DE,exactly the other way around. Some weird system indeed.

 

i mean if it was that easy im certain they would've done it by now with how much people asked for them. 

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2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

i mean if it was that easy im certain they would've done it by now with how much people asked for them. 


They might lack the idea or do not want to use this cheap method that would take special visual feel from the weapons.
Like I said,basic model would be used therefore anything "original" would go away.
It does allow for easy tweak of stats but every combination would "feel" the same because it would be exactly the same gun with tweaked stats.
What is acceptable to me,but may not be to others.

For energy sniper zaw
It would be for example Lanka with 100dmg Lanka with 110 dmg and Lanka with 120 dmg It is just lanka,but with changed number.

Maybe to introduce platinum parts with retexture (like winter camo version) would be better then,it does not change anything but looks)

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I would be easy to create a workaround to apply a skin to be displayed to the player while virtual architecture remains constant. Basically, you could either create a default weapon with the same stats or you could just apply the skin to to appear on screen, but the in game function and appearance would be the same. You could even create a global composite gun when you use the parts to create a weapon to get a set programmed result as opposed to individual coded pieces! 

 Implementation with Warframe’s current in game engine might be more difficult as you would probably have to alter the engine itself to account for translational substitution. Meaning that because it’s already programmed a specific way, it would be easier to a create new engine with different features than alter the current one. Programming decisions at DE sometimes boggle my mind. 

Oh well... 

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Tying the stats to the mesh sounds like a shockingly backwards design decision.  One would think that the simplest and most straightforward way to handle a kitgun (or previously zaws) would be that each component is an object with various values attached to it, including base mesh.  The stat calculation functions shouldn't care what the mesh is, or even that there is a mesh.

So, why are stats bound to the meshes?  What was the logic behind that?

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

Tying the stats to the mesh sounds like a shockingly backwards design decision.  One would think that the simplest and most straightforward way to handle a kitgun (or previously zaws) would be that each component is an object with various values attached to it, including base mesh.  The stat calculation functions shouldn't care what the mesh is, or even that there is a mesh.

So, why are stats bound to the meshes?  What was the logic behind that?

Please read what I wrote:

57 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Doesn't make coding sense to tie the weapon stats to the mesh. The other way around seems more likely. The issue with zaws is that the mesh determines the weapon's collision hitbox and hence the damaging regions/range. This would mean the skins would majorly rekt the collision boxes of the zaws and ... cause problems there as the shapes are all completely different.

Exodias for the same reason - Exodia contagion launches the strike of the zaw so putting a skin on it is one good way to bug exodia contagion.

It is applicable to zaws because of how DE handles the hitboxing of melee weapons. This appears to be the only legitimate resolution.

However, when speaking of kitguns, which do not need a collision mesh that is meaningful, yes, this is when people don't understand.

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1 hour ago, Nomayonnaiseinireland said:

If you are talking about these... https://forums.warframe.com/topic/847379-about-the-upcoming-proto-weapon-skins/

I don't know what happened to them; three options spring to mind though: DE forgot them, DE had to set them aside to work on other content, or DE ultimately decided the style was NOT a good match for the game ('cause it isn't really).

Fourth option: the publisher sitting on the rights to darkSector told dE "no"

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15 minutes ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

Tying the stats to the mesh sounds like a shockingly backwards design decision.  One would think that the simplest and most straightforward way to handle a kitgun (or previously zaws) would be that each component is an object with various values attached to it, including base mesh.  The stat calculation functions shouldn't care what the mesh is, or even that there is a mesh.

So, why are stats bound to the meshes?  What was the logic behind that?

Data storage, me thinks.

Take Zaws for example, you have 11 strikes, 10 grips and 16 links. That should be 1,760 different combinations, although I'm probably forgetting something.

By having the stats tied to the mesh, you do not need different stats for each combination, that would effectively be 1,760 new weapons. The game probably just performs a calculation based on the 3 equipped parts and displays the result. As for why it's specifically tied to the mesh, as others have posted that will also effect the hitbox as well as the type of weapon. Probably easier to just group it all together.

Thus, instead of 1,760 different values you have 37. Adding a new Strike doesn't mean you need to create 160 different entries.

Similar story for Kitguns I imagine, it worked last time so they just used the same method. 24 different sets of stats to manage instead of 256, with projectile visuals and animations all tied to the mesh of the parts used.

I'm sure there are probably much better ways of having done it to be honest, and as with many things DE do they've probably backed themselves into a corner with this. I don't personally see it as a big deal though, their design is unique in Warframe and I quite like that.

Edited by DeMonkey
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Maybe I miss something but they already have to save "Monkey haz kitgun made of x,y,z" 
And they ofcourse need to have this final stat calculation ingame,otherwise every zaw would have no or same stats.
It would not be problem to use same information for skinned version for stat calculation.

Animations etc are other matter,it is why "generic" weapon base was suggested,it is not perfect but very little work compared to changing the whole system.

I like some zaws tooo...but other zaws look like prank I will post what i mean
HZ2Vmdx.jpg
I mean it is up to personal taste,but lets just say I imagine machete to be different than big ball on the stick,I would call this mace or hammer

Edited by ---Merchant---
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2 minutes ago, ---Merchant--- said:

Maybe I miss something but they already have to save "Monkey haz kitgun made of x,y,z" 
And they ofcourse need to have this final stat calculation ingame,otherwise every zaw would have no or same stats.

You misunderstand, "Monkey has kitgun x,y,z" is easy to save.

To try and explain, the Strike/Chamber will always provide the base stats, the main elements of the weapon. The handle/link etc tweak animations and modifiers. It's all based around the initial Strike/Chamber though.

You see the 1,760 Zaw weapon combinations I mentioned above? Each one of those would have to be saved and stored as a separate weapon to do away with mesh dependancy, despite the fact that so many of them will be near duplicates of one another.

Imagine you create two identical Zaws, one with a Jai Link and the other with a Ruhang Link. The Jai Link comes with a + speed -damage modifier, the Ruhang one comes with - speed + damage. That's a trivial difference, but it would have to be classed as an entirely separate weapon to it's previous form with a completely difference entry.

DE have done it so that that isn't necessary, the secondary and tertiary parts just modify the stats of the initial part. Instead of 1,760 Zaw combination entries you have 11 Strike stat entries, that are then altered based on the next parts, whether they be faster attack speed or increased damage.

Like I said, I reckon DE have backed themselves into a corner with this, but if this is why they did it then I can see the logic behind it.

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