I believe there's a hidden drop rate decrease when running missions with people on your friends list.

[Bob_Harbeck]

For over two years now, this has been the case with a clanmate that I always ran everything with. He liked to run things closed session with just the two of us and specifically, with void relic missions because he's like that. We would refine stuff to radiant and got bronze drops Every... Single... Time. I started getting frustrated with this and eventually, when he stopped playing as much, I started running radiant keys in random groups, and getting the gold drop on the first try so many times that I started to believe I was lucky. But we all know RNGesus doesn't believe in luck, he believes in numbers. 

I bragged to said clanmate that I was getting gold drops on the first try running without him and we both mistakenly believed that something had changed with the drop tables, he started playing the game again and this time, at my insistence, running them open so that we could fill the squad and have four chances at decent drops. We generally got Jack F-All. Then that became a trend. He started playing less, and I ran relics without him and got gold drops, even off intacts. 

A year down the road, and he has taken a long break from the game and we don't even talk anymore. I ran stuff with nobody on my friends list and found myself up to 50 rivens in no time off sorties, getting gold drops regularly with void relic missions and piecing together and selling off numerous prime sets. I made a few friends that I started running with, and the drops again turned to crap. If I run with one other friend on my list, we get Ayatan Anasa statues for sortie, or credits, and bronze drops only off all four of us running radiant keys, whereas I can run a radshare with just about any random group and get the gold drop within 2-3 runs tops. 

Now, if I was a math guy, I would have an Excel spreadsheet with the results of my runs and numbers to throw into the discussion, but I'm not, so I don't, so it's anecdotal. Except, the guys I've been running with have all exchoed my sentiments and after a lot of individual testing over the last few weeks, have agreed with me. Pattern recognition is, however, something I can do, and there is surely a pattern here. I refuse to believe this is pure RNG. 

 

My conclusion is that there's some wonky stuff happening in the game to encourage running with a group of Rando Calrissians vs. your friends. Why? I'm not sure, and I don't really care. I think it sucks, either way. It discourages playing with a group of people that you're comfortable and on the same page with and seems to want to encourage veteran players to just run it open and not with their friends so that someone who started playing two days ago gets a better chance at premium drops. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Bob_Harbeck

[Ventura_Highway]

Do you realize how paranoid you sound?

[NovusNova]

Purely RNG, unless you have thousands of runs of recorded evidence.

To me, had more rare parts drop when I've been playing with people on friends lists vs public.

That could be because we use chat to go after 1 part at a time and refine relics as needed whereas public, its pot luck who joins. But then again I assume that's what all squads of friends do when they want to farm something.

[Waspyeh]

3 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

Purely RNG, unless you have thousands of runs of recorded evidence.

To me, had more rare parts drop when I've been playing with people on friends lists vs public.

That could be because we use chat to go after 1 part at a time and refine relics as needed whereas public, its pot luck who joins. But then again I assume that's what all squads of friends do when they want to farm something.

Sometimes the rng hates certain players, and sometimes its quite hilarious!
I had a friend that is farming somachords and every time he runs a mission, it just doesn't want to drop, but if i run one with him it drops.

[Ventura_Highway]

12 minutes ago, Bob_Harbeck said:

Now, if I was a math guy, I would have an Excel spreadsheet with the results of my runs and numbers to throw into the discussion, but I'm not, so I don't, so it's anecdotal. Except, the guys I've been running with have all exchoed my sentiments and after a lot of individual testing over the last few weeks, have agreed with me.

This is what I have a problem with. I have had enough of people vomiting out these unscientific, nonfactual statements and actually thinking they have any shred of credibility. Welcome to the misinformation age, people.

These kind of statements are supposed to be made with properly planned experiments and appropriate documentation. You have just said you think drop rates are borked when you had friends around, and that matters to everyone because "Some number of people agreed with me."

I'm not going to deny what you're saying is possible. I am going to deny any sense of credibility to this rather serious statement because I do not think the evidence here is appropriately substantiated.

[Bob_Harbeck]

I have little doubt that even if I had come in here with spreadsheets that the boot-lickers would've still accused me of lying. If I observe something repeatedly happening, it makes me paranoid?

[xcenic]

[Genitive]

4 minutes ago, Bob_Harbeck said:

I have little doubt that even if I had come in here with spreadsheets that the boot-lickers would've still accused me of lying. If I observe something repeatedly happening, it makes me paranoid?

Come back with the data and prove everybody wrong, then. Claim without evidence can be debunked without evidence.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

6 minutes ago, Bob_Harbeck said:

I have little doubt that even if I had come in here with spreadsheets that the boot-lickers would've still accused me of lying. If I observe something repeatedly happening, it makes me paranoid?

You're just having a case of what is called bad luck. This hasn't been reported by anyone else. Plus I ran with my clan mate and got a gold and a few silver. It's just RNG for you.

[Ventura_Highway]

3 minutes ago, Bob_Harbeck said:

I have little doubt that even if I had come in here with spreadsheets that the boot-lickers would've still accused me of lying.

If you're going to sit here and attack my character then I'm done. No point in arguing without good faith.

[Cerbion]

3 minutes ago, Bob_Harbeck said:

I have little doubt that even if I had come in here with spreadsheets that the boot-lickers would've still accused me of lying. If I observe something repeatedly happening, it makes me paranoid?

Eh what?

So.. you're posting in a forum about a topic that is both controversial in nature (controversial in the sense that DE would be punishing solo/random players) and has no real or even half-way scientific evidence backing it up.

That said, that's really it. True RNG is just like that. Some people WILL encounter drop rates that feel unfair or behaving weirdly.

 

So what you can do, is just make such a spreadsheet, they exist for a reason. Try to get friends, clanmates or other volunteers to help fill in the data.

With enough data points, you will be able to quickly ascertain if the RNG is askew or not.

 

And of course, it makes you sound paranoid. That's by definition unless you prove the opposite.

[Waspyeh]

13 minutes ago, xcenic said:

[Rekkou]

19 minutes ago, Bob_Harbeck said:

I have little doubt that even if I had come in here with spreadsheets that the boot-lickers would've still accused me of lying. If I observe something repeatedly happening, it makes me paranoid?

No, but believing that anyone who doesn't believe you means they are trying to conspire against you is a major sign of paranoia

[IntheCoconut]

This isn't something I considered. I've just always chalked it up to bad RNG. I only do sorties with a full premade team, and we really only want rivens (wouldn't complain about any of the gold rewards either). It is an ongoing joke among us that we are cursed to only get the Anasa because it certainly seems like 6 out of 7 days we get it. I know I'm just looking at it wrong. All of the rewards from Sorties are useful, it can just feel like a drag when you are rooting for a particular prize only to never see it show up day after day.

[Beggan35]

I ran with 4 friends a few weeks ago trying to get the gold drop from a relic...we all ran 22 radded out relics in a row and only had the bronze/silvers drop...repeatedly 2 of us would always get the exact same drop. Once we disbanded the group, i ran my last intact relic just for the sh*ts and giggles, and BOOM...i get the gold drop i needed. That seems pretty messed up in my book. Yall wanna call it bad RNG, sure go for it...Me and this same friend ran countless C rotations of Derelict survivals trying to get Octavia Neuroptics together...and nothing...i run 1 time by myself right after we ran together and low and behold, I get the neuroptics...same for the sorties...we run together as a group, we get either Ayatan treasures or Endo...EVERY TIME!...i run by myself and so does my friend we both get Rivens...i myself got a Legendary Core...seems to me, that's data enough to prove that running with friends is not a good thing!

[vid23]

RNG, nothing else, the world isnt against you or your friends

[[DE]Drew]

You can view the drop rates here.

We update the drops page whenever rates change, and they do not change based on who you play with. I wouldn't be surprised if players are more cognizant of drops when playing with friends though. 

[Nidaria]

I understand how frustrating it can be to consistently not get what you want, but to immediately assume Digital Extremes has something in the game to lower your drop rates is absurd.
Boot-licker or not, it doesn't take much time for anyone to realize what kind of company DE actually is.

[Mama_Sasha]

For me it seems to be teh opposite. Strangely, when i play with a specific friend, the droprate on Argon Crystals are dropping as often as NcSoft shutting down games, but if its with someone else or solo, they are as rare as the bigfoot's instagram selfies.

But knowing RNG, im pretty sure that it is all a coincidence when it comes with drop. Could be from mods to warframe setup and many more factors that takes place with the RNG and and more.

[BrazilianJoe]

I believe the earth is flat. (no, not really) 

The psychological roots of your RNGesus conspiracy belief are a fault which is inherent to any brain. Mine, yours and everyone else`s. But FRET NOT! Science and knowloedge can innoculate your intellect and compensate for those faults!

Start here, and go down the rabbit hole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[Phatose]

Every time one of these threads comes up, I'm reminded why casinos continue to exist as profitable entities.  Why gambling goes at least as far back as the paleolithic, but actual mathematical understanding of probability dates from the 1800s.  Why people by lottery tickets, despite the odds being bad enough you could get more use out of your money by literally setting it on fire to keep you warm.  Why people get terrified by the spectre of violent crime, and are completely blase about driving down the highway at 80MPH. 

Humans are absolutely horrible at actually making wise decisions, or even reasonable calculations, anywhere probability is involved.  Once a roll of the dice is involved, we become a superstitious lot in record time.

[Bob_Harbeck]

1 hour ago, Ventura_Highway said:

If you're going to sit here and attack my character then I'm done. No point in arguing without good faith.

Your first post called me paranoid without a hint of "good faith" and then followed it up with:

 "I have had enough of people vomiting out these unscientific, nonfactual statements and actually thinking they have any shred of credibility. Welcome to the misinformation age, people." 

"Good faith" my ass. Who attacked whose character first? I said what I said because you said what you said. Intellectual honesty is also a thing. Maybe look that up. You attacked my character from the get-go and then when I pointed out your motivations, you were out because... reasons. Good faith is maybe something you might want to bring to the table when you want to disagree with someone, instead of simply taking your ball home when you get called correctly. 

I appreciate the DE admin weighing in with the drop tables. I used to admin on the Valve forums so I get "the job." It was a circus back in the day when WON went offline, so I have a lot of respect for what you do. But I will say this, if it isn't intentional, it's potentially a bug that needs to be looked at. At this point, it's sure feeling a lot less random and a lot more consistent. Everyone poo-pooing me and calling me paranoid does nothing to convince me otherwise. Notably missing from your drop tables is anything to do with parties made with friends on your list. Might it just be worth bringing to the team's attention?

[Bob_Harbeck]

8 minutes ago, Phatose said:

Every time one of these threads comes up, I'm reminded why casinos continue to exist as profitable entities.  Why gambling goes at least as far back as the paleolithic, but actual mathematical understanding of probability dates from the 1800s.  Why people by lottery tickets, despite the odds being bad enough you could get more use out of your money by literally setting it on fire to keep you warm.  Why people get terrified by the spectre of violent crime, and are completely blase about driving down the highway at 80MPH. 

Humans are absolutely horrible at actually making wise decisions, or even reasonable calculations, anywhere probability is involved.  Once a roll of the dice is involved, we become a superstitious lot in record time.

That's cool. I don't gamble and I don't speed. I'm playing a videogame and noticed some fluctuations in the drop rates. You got a solution, or do you just want to pontificate about unrelated stuff? 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Since we're sharing conspiracy theories, mine is the RNG rate drops when players in PUGS select the same relic to unlock while in survivals...getting 10 of those mcguffins seems to always end up one or more short for the unlock after wave or minute 5....

[Phatose]

1 minute ago, Bob_Harbeck said:

That's cool. I don't gamble and I don't speed. I'm playing a videogame and noticed some fluctuations in the drop rates. You got a solution, or do you just want to pontificate about unrelated stuff? 

Gather hard evidence.  Or, really, evidence, period.

It's a very straightforward solution - and one you were clearly aware of, based on your original post. 

You want to be taken seriously, then take it seriously yourself.  Do the work, get some nice hard evidence, some actual numbers, so we actually have something to discuss. 

Until then, all we have is your vague feeling, and that's not a reasonable thing to expect us to do a labor-intensive investigation  to address.