Tridolons and future winter spider bounties should be locked untill you get your first built AMP and 10~MR

[spirit_of_76]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And spending time unlocking them means that you will not be gaining MR for the gear you are using. 

I can do both at once.  use Valk and go to ESO put a lens on your frame and melee and then you can rank any primary or secondary in less than 8 waves while gaining focus.  

19 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And just how do you propose that they unlock the waybounds if they aren't already hunting Eidolons?

I can do the eidolons and I don't have a way bound unlocked the thing is you still will want to invest in the operator some.  for a better time eidolonning invest in maderi for general use vaserin and if you don't care about the eidolons then zenerik.  I would also suggest getting naromon as it will help with the focus grind and with the slot requirements as the lenses are cheap and the school has few must-haves all of which are cheap (it is a must on melee happy frames).

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[spirit_of_76]

5 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

I wish DE would have those tiers, so people at ALL tiers won't become frustrated and learn awful habits (like not being team plyers in a MMO/multiplayer game). Where rewarding behaviors to BE team players is higher, than just race or bot their way to "end-game".

ditto to that so many tenno do not know about negative frame interactions/ the operational requirements for a frame or where a frame is good that is is sad.  necroses using their 4 when they have renewal,  syarns not letting a Valk build warcry duration (this hurt them because it reduced the duration of their the buff for them as well and +135% attack speed and armor is not something to scoff at).  

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

you would be surprised. I have attempted terry caps with randos on accident (i forgot to set the match to private when I went fishing) that did not know to duck out of the magnetic AOE and did not try to stand on my carpet (I brought an Oberon).  

That's not surprising at all. I've lost count of the times I have carried a group of n00bs in a Terry capture, I generally just ask them to read the wiki on eidolon hunting at some point. That's why I asked that question. If you can solo, you can carry. Yeah it'll take a little longer, but it's about the same as bailing and rejoining another random squad that might be even worse off. 

3 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

You got your answer. Higher content has higher conditions. There's other things BUT MR that's needed to be done, too.

And you got yours, ALL of the "conditions" can be met at or about MR 5. Void powers, meta-frames, weapons, loadouts, focus schools. 

I have asked you to go ahead and check the requirements, but you don't seem to be able to click on the link I gave on this thread, so I advise using Google to figure it out on your own. 

7 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Do you enjoy doing higher content with people who hasn't or refuse to do the work necessary to be a non-liability? MOST people won't enjoy that, they want to play with at level players for higher content.

And I have repeatedly explained that high level players with all the right gear can be as bad or worse than the low MR players. I have experienced this myself. 

 

5 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

I can do both at once.  use Valk and go to ESO put a lens on your frame and melee and then you can rank any primary or secondary in less than 8 waves while gaining focus

Granted, but the affinity that goes to the focus school will not affect your mastery, and the affinity that goes to mastery will not earn focus. We both know that doing either will be far more efficient at the task, than trying to do both at the same time. It's one of the tradeoffs we face. 

 

9 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

I can do the eidolons and I don't have a way bound unlocked the thing is you still will want to invest in the operator some.  

Unbind 4 or 5 and see what a difference there is between the chalk and the cheese, my friend. 😉

 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

16 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

ditto to that so many tenno do not know about negative frame interactions/ the operational requirements for a frame or where a frame is good that is is sad.  necroses using their 4 when they have renewal,  syarns not letting a Valk build warcry duration (this hurt them because it reduced the duration of their the buff for them as well and +135% attack speed and armor is not something to scoff at).  

Something I'm finding out with Saryn Prime with 238m range. Oh, nice 700+ kills, but you also notice your peers aren't getting kills also, and why they're W-A-Y away, because they can't get kills. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it's the best thing to do for group enjoyment (or finishing the Elite Sanctuary runs as it depends on how many you kill -- perfect time to add that survival mod to lower the range!).

[spirit_of_76]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And you got yours, ALL of the "conditions" can be met at or about MR 5. Void powers, meta-frames, weapons, loadouts, focus schools

the Rubico is MR 6 and the Lanka is MR 10 you can't have the No. 1 and now No.3 Metta primaries for this fight until at least MR6 the Lanka is an MR 10 clan tech weapon that needs 4 forma before you can fit 80% 

25 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Unbind 4 or 5 and see what a difference there is between the chalk and the cheese, my friend.

you missed my point it is not needed.  I will agree it is definitely better especially the vasierin naromon and zeneric way bounds

25 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Granted, but the affinity that goes to the focus school will not affect your mastery, and the affinity that goes to mastery will not earn focus. We both know that doing either will be far more efficient at the task, than trying to do both at the same time. It's one of the tradeoffs we face

true but the focus conversion rate is terrible without a convalescence orb and with naromon, it is somewhat mitigated

Edited January 8, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[spirit_of_76]

9 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Something I'm finding out with Saryn Prime with 238m range. Oh, nice 700+ kills, but you also notice your peers aren't getting kills also, and why they're W-A-Y away, because they can't get kills. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it's the best thing to do for group enjoyment (or finishing the Elite Sanctuary runs as it depends on how many you kill -- perfect time to add that survival mod to lower the range!)

that or don't use her 4 or build her with less power strength.  all of that makes it easier on you and lets your team kill things which make the game more fun.  

Edited January 8, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

the Rubico is MR 6 and the Lanka is MR 10 you can't have the No. 1 and now No.3 Metta primaries for this fight until at least MR6 the Lanka is an MR 10 clan tech weapon that needs 4 forma before you can fit 80% 

And since it's daybreak let me give you a little rundown of how the night of public matches on the plains hunting Terry went. 

First 2 runs, had 3 rhino's (2 primed) and a volt prime. The two primed rhino's, one had a Lanka one had a Vectis, and both did around 25% of the damage (Volt P did the most at close to 40%). Odd part about the rhino's.... One was MR 16, and the other... MR 8.

Next match, Volt P, Rhino P, and Excalibur. Seeing as the excal was MR 1 and had starter gear on, no surprise that they did almost no damage. Again Volt carried the most damage. No real surprises there either. 

Last couple of missions, one Volt P, two Rhino Primes one MR16 and one MR25 and a Mirage. Again Volt P the majority of the hurt on Terry, but in both matches the lower MR Rhino did almost double the damage% of the higher, and in the second match that lower MR was the player with both lures. 

 

Any Mastery Rank above 5, isn't a valid metric for excluding people from Eidolon hunting, they can easily have a multiple forma radiation damage sniper rifle before MR10. 

So....... 

 

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

you missed my point it is not needed.  I will agree it is definitely better especially the vasierin naromon and zeneric way bounds

No I didn't, but I am telling you that if you unbind and equip 4-5 you will notice a huge difference in your ability to hunt for Eidolons. Very much chalk vs cheese. 

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

true but the focus conversion rate is terrible without a convalescence orb and with naromon, it is somewhat mitigated

Try dumping the unlevelled gear and just taking the melee and comparing the results. Your focus gains on the melee should go up. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by (PS4)guzmantt1977

[spirit_of_76]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Try dumping the unlevelled gear and just taking the melee and comparing the results. Your focus gains on the melee should go up. 

it is worse because the melee uses a quick attack stance and needs a primary.  I only lose out on about 30k focus my melee often gets about 2 times that and that is with all 3  having Eidolan lenses also my lensed non-melees are all naromon so I am not gaining much as I have everything I want from that school.  this is the best example I have for my point. yes I would get more but the lack of versatility is a grater hindrance.
 

[(PSN)AnimeWeebooTrash]

I think the MR Requirement should be like Mr15 just to be safe. Still, it's rare that an MR15 knows what he's doing. Usually Noobs join and screw everything up making it pointless to go do the bounty. Either that, or DE needs to make killing/capturing Eidolons easier. Literally almost every time you do an Eidolon Bounty the noobs in there don't know anything and end up screwing things up for the whole team making all of our time wasted.

[(NSW)RabidSkag]

4 mote amps can handle a teralyst no problem.

I have even killed limbs with mote amp only.

You learn by using the mote amp, do this a few times then build a 111 amp which is not bad. 

A few more times, ranking up build 212 amp using two rank up rewards. Your then becoming efficient in the fight.

Can then move on to tridos and tier 3 amp parts.

MR 5 is the restriction to amp and its fine, I have soloed terrys and done tridos at MR5.

A higher MR restriction would only mean people have to wait longer before getting to know the learning curve.

[deothor]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)RabidSkag said:

I have even killed limbs with mote amp only.

obvious lie detected. Or you really expect whole team wasting 40 minutes with mote amp.

2 minutes ago, (NSW)RabidSkag said:

I have soloed terrys and done tridos at MR5.

My lie detector blew up. You owe me new one.

 

Unless your whole comment is a sarcasm targeted towards all those people that spout nonsense.. Tbh I'm not sure anymore :S

Edited January 8, 2019 by deothor

[(NSW)RabidSkag]

6 minutes ago, deothor said:

My lie detector blew up. You owe me new one.

Ah, one of them, a doubter. Get out there son and try for yourself, seek and explore. The truth shall set you free.

[CyberPrimate]

I captured Teralyst about 30 times before I started doing Tridolons. Anyone who jumps into triple captures after they've done terry once or twice is a leech.

Ive also tagged along experienced players when doing my first 5-10 triple caps. So for the most part I was carried. But that wasnt a pub, those were premade groups.

Now, I usually do pub runs and the amounts of Excalibur Umbras, Inaros, Mesa etc showing up with Arca Plasmor/Dread/Corinth and all kinds of other nonsense and doing 0%dmg at the end of the hunt is quite high. Like seriously - how does one end up doing 0% damage. 

All i'd want from players accepting a Tridolon bounty is :

1. Crafted Amp

2. X amount of successful Teralyst captures

These 2 things just sound like a no brainer to me.

To anyone who thinks those two requirements for a successful triple capture are too much, then go and do a triple cap with 4x mote amps and people with weapons like Arca Plasmor and frame like Nekros or Inaros lol 

[Veridian]

3 hours ago, CyberPrimate said:

how does one end up doing 0% damage.  

The new trend is doing the same in orbs. Now that is actually an achievement, since there are plenty of trash mobs that can at least get you to 1%.

+1 on your suggestion

a 3rd point could be at least N amount of focus used on a single school

[Makunogo]

instead of a MR or AMP requirement. perhaps having certain quests completed as the requirement would be more reasonable. 

edit if anything one could have a MR cap on those quests instead which would literally make people require to progress, to progress. ( this is an edit)

at the very least this would imply that they have gone through the game a bit and should likely have a better grasp of things.

while i have been on the Side of MR locking late game content but in all honesty it also just doesn't really work for warframe since MR = level up a lot of things and not much else. so it may not actually help much.

with that in mind i believe having it locked behind quest completion is more ideal as some of the quests are fairly later on in the game and i know i personally didn't finish them all for quite some time. but when it becomes a requirement to get into places you can bet that they will want to complete them. this will get people more invested into late game as there would actually be a late game (from a beginner perspective)

this could easily be applied to cetus and fortuna. and quests already have some prerequisites. so this could be implemented and i would think would be a good suggestion to pitch to DE. 

all in all i have to admit seeing an MR1 in fortuna and cetus was a bit.. well shocking. i was like.. what are they doing here. i mean i get its nice to go look at the place but i agree when your top content is available so early on ( poe and cetus is basically the big cheeze of the game imo as in its the bulk of late game ) the incentive to go through the star chart imo feels a bit meh.

im slightly scatter brained i edited this like 4 times. so mind the messy read. but hopefully my point comes across

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Makunogo

[Makunogo]

4 hours ago, CyberPrimate said:

I captured Teralyst about 30 times before I started doing Tridolons. Anyone who jumps into triple captures after they've done terry once or twice is a leech.

Ive also tagged along experienced players when doing my first 5-10 triple caps. So for the most part I was carried. But that wasnt a pub, those were premade groups.

Now, I usually do pub runs and the amounts of Excalibur Umbras, Inaros, Mesa etc showing up with Arca Plasmor/Dread/Corinth and all kinds of other nonsense and doing 0%dmg at the end of the hunt is quite high. Like seriously - how does one end up doing 0% damage. 

All i'd want from players accepting a Tridolon bounty is :

1. Crafted Amp

2. X amount of successful Teralyst captures

These 2 things just sound like a no brainer to me.

To anyone who thinks those two requirements for a successful triple capture are too much, then go and do a triple cap with 4x mote amps and people with weapons like Arca Plasmor and frame like Nekros or Inaros lol 

who says the night cycle was designed to have triple+ caps? just getting in one tridolon run per night is reasonable. its unfair to lump your min max mentality on newer players. we all had a learning curve to get through.

i do understand the reasoning behind it.and its almost contradictory to my last post LMAO. extremes on both sides. smh

no they wont get multiple tridoron runs done in a night. however getting one done in a night is still an accomplishment. weather you agree with that or not is not my concern.

btw i am one of those "leeches" you are talking about. i turned out just fine.

however being forced to teralyst hunt x times might prove to be a reasonable method to make them learn. however the gaunt/hydro have other mechanics so a learning curve is still there... tho i guess this could be reasonable depending on how many kills is required to start a tricolon bounty..

since the night cycle is time gated its a bit hard to have this number be too high. but dont want it so low that it makes no impact. what would you suggest?

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Makunogo

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

Against it my clan likes to take noobies in for a welcoming gift to get them a few arcanes. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by (NSW)Evilpricetag

[CyberPrimate]

39 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

Against it my clan likes to take noobies in for a welcoming gift to get them a few arcanes. 

You can still invite anyone you want.

Most of us are talking about pubs.

43 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

who says the night cycle was designed to have triple+ caps? just getting in one tridolon run per night is reasonable. its unfair to lump your min max mentality on newer players. we all had a learning curve to get through.

 

I meant 3 eidolons per night, not 3x3. Maybe I dont know the terminology that well. Ive just had my first 3x3 myself.

You need a crafted amp for that. Its what I did. I farmed Teralyst until I could get a better amp, which I did. Then progressed to all 3 eidolons per night.

Why this sounds so preposterous to some I dont know.

1. Crafted Amp

2. X amount of successful Teralyst captures

Simple.

Edited January 8, 2019 by CyberPrimate

[FlusteredFerret]

On 2018-12-07 at 4:55 PM, Artek94 said:

But how does one is going to build a new amp without farming standing from eidolons?

The small ghosts? are they even good enough for that?

Thats how I did it. Farming Vomvalyst cores...anywhere from 50-70 a night over several nights, to get to the third rank with the Quills, after which I was able to buy parts for my first crafted amp.

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 hours ago, CyberPrimate said:

All i'd want from players accepting a Tridolon bounty is :

1. Crafted Amp

2. X amount of successful Teralyst captures

These 2 things just sound like a no brainer to me.

This one goes first because it's actually useful. Finally someone who is using their head. The only limit to going after Eidolons should be, "the ability to go after Eidolons". 

Unfortunately the leeches, and relative ease of doing Terry caps for stronger players, means that you can have 30 at MR 1. So we're back at square one, aren't we? 

 

 

9 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

it is worse because the melee uses a quick attack stance and needs a primary.  I only lose out on about 30k focus my melee often gets about 2 times that and that is with all 3  having Eidolan lenses also my lensed non-melees are all naromon so I am not gaining much as I have everything I want from that school.  this is the best example I have for my point. yes I would get more but the lack of versatility is a grater hindrance.
 

You know that you can put a different lens on your gear if you want, right? Yes it'll cost you the original lens, but it's not a huge deal usually. 

8 hours ago, (PS4)AnimeWeebooTrash said:

I think the MR Requirement should be like Mr15 just to be safe. Still, it's rare that an MR15 knows what he's doing. Usually Noobs join and screw everything up making it pointless to go do the bounty.

That's funny, because about 10 hours ago I did a run where a MR 8 player knew what he was doing and did it pretty well. And a MR 16 outdid a MR 25 with similar gear. You can scroll up and see the details. 

Mastery Rank is meaningless after 5, when it comes to Eidolon hunting. 

Also if n00bs in the squad make a mess of your ability to do the Terry capture, then you probably aren't much better than them. If you're able to solo, then you can capture it regardless of what the n00bs do. 

 

4 hours ago, Makunogo said:

instead of a MR or AMP requirement. perhaps having certain quests completed as the requirement would be more reasonable. 

edit if anything one could have a MR cap on those quests instead which would literally make people require to progress, to progress. ( this is an edit)

at the very least this would imply that they have gone through the game a bit and should likely have a better grasp of things.

MR 5 will get you through everything quest related, as far as I know. It's also enough to get you access to the gear you need to hunt Eidolons. Feel free to check the link I posted before for the information on what is gated by MR. 

[NeopetsMaster4432]

There is already a system in place to ensure you get your ideal party members in a group: the LFG chat, clans, and the invite system. 😛
It's sort of silly to want to remove content accessibility from other players when there's already an adequate in-game work around to the current "problem". It might take a bit of effort and time to get into ideal parties, but it's consistent with the rest of the game how no public missions are filled solely with people using meta frames and top-tiered weapons.

Regardless of one's equipment or MR level, a person's experience will be the greatest factor in how much they're able to contribute~ 

[Kobrakai]

I'm MR21 with 1200 hours in the game. I have a Lanka with riven, and a 223 amp. I have read the wiki and other guides on eidolons and I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of what I need to do, so now I just need to practice. 

Yet I often run into these elitists with hundreds of hydro caps calling me out for low damage or other minor mistakes, telling me I shouldn't be doing eidolons and I need to read the wiki, craft X amp, etc. The same complaints I'm reading here.

People seem to forget that they made mistakes once when they were new. You can't expect people to do everything perfectly from the start, it takes time to learn and get good. It doesn't matter what mastery rank you are or which amp you have, people will still make mistakes.

If you don't want to play with noobs then join an organized group in recruitment chat and ask for 1000+ caps, don't queue to join a random group and complain when people are leaning how to play.

[CyberPrimate]

1 hour ago, NeopetsMaster4432 said:

It's sort of silly to want to remove content accessibility from other players when there's already an adequate in-game work around to the current "problem". 
 

No mate. If those people that we are talking about had other 3 squad members just like them, they would barely be able to capture a Teralyst.

Like today for example, I tried to do another run 18min til daylight. Got an Excalibur and and MR6 joining.

Checked their Profile and one had 1x tera capture and the other 3x tera KILL.

No, they should not have access to a triple capture PUB. Simple as that.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

This one goes first because it's actually useful. Finally someone who is using their head. The only limit to going after Eidolons should be, "the ability to go after Eidolons". 

Unfortunately the leeches, and relative ease of doing Terry caps for stronger players, means that you can have 30 at MR 1. So we're back at square one, aren't we? 

It would be fine. Some crappy players will fall through cracks, if they lets say - leech 10-15 teralyst captures to get acces to triple capture.

It would be a minority. However the way it is now, its free for all. Just have some rudimentary requirements, YES they can be bypassed, but who cares? 

Even if they leeched those 10-15 captures, at least they learned something. Learned some of the sound ques, some movement ques etc. Maybe read the chat and learned something.

I mean its very weird right now. A player might not have access to the entire star chart, yet Triple Eidolon capture bounty - well yes, why not.

[Makunogo]

1 hour ago, NeopetsMaster4432 said:

There is already a system in place to ensure you get your ideal party members in a group: the LFG chat, clans, and the invite system. 😛
It's sort of silly to want to remove content accessibility from other players when there's already an adequate in-game work around to the current "problem". It might take a bit of effort and time to get into ideal parties, but it's consistent with the rest of the game how no public missions are filled solely with people using meta frames and top-tiered weapons.

Regardless of one's equipment or MR level, a person's experience will be the greatest factor in how much they're able to contribute~ 

imo we would be more likely to get ideal party members when people are experienced. which they get when they have actually experienced things. in my earlier post i mentioned possible mr requirements on quests. in relation to this not as a restrictive measure. but for players to actually learn about the game and its mechanics ect.

not only will this make players more rounded but it adds even more streamlining that i know a lot of players have complained about (a lack of direction). not knowing what to do ect. where to go. heck where to level gear up. the list goes on

however my point being that since they are required to do more of them games content they will naturally learn more ( as some of the quests shows you things, index, the operator, ect - cus yes i have seen people in cetus and futuna who dont even know what an operator is, welp spoiler ) in turn we end up with more competent players - not saying people aren't competent but you get the idea - and less toxic public groupings.

no content is being removed. its just being mitigated for later use.

note*  i was implying NEW mr requirements in my posts not the current ones 😛 tho i guess thats more for suggestions >.>

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Makunogo

[spirit_of_76]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

12 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

 

You know that you can put a different lens on your gear if you want, right? Yes it'll cost you the original lens, but it's not a huge deal usually. 

I don't have different ones