Tridolons and future winter spider bounties should be locked untill you get your first built AMP and 10~MR

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

Honestly MR doesn't mean anything. The amp part might be a good idea though for tridolons.

As for orb mothers in vallis they said they want all players to be able to do those since it's more about teamwork than actually shooting it down so even a new player could be of help. Gotta wait and see how those play out.

I dunno. I suspect that for at least one of them the window of opportunity may only be 4 minutes long. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

On 2018-12-07 at 8:55 AM, Artek94 said:

But how does one is going to build a new amp without farming standing from eidolons?

The small ghosts? are they even good enough for that?

It's how I built mine.

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

and another one who doesn't understand the gamble that is public matchmaking. I genuinely think DE should pin a thread on what public matchmaking actually is, anything to reduce the number of people wanting to ruin the game for everyone else just because they got a bad team.

I think of it as another example of people placing more value on Mastery Rank as a litmus for competence than they do on team cohesion and performance.

The Tridolan fight has a check in place everyone has to agree to (twice) before it can be fully completed.

Had a ton of trouble on the Teralyst ? Leave and Re-queue

Quick time on the Teralyst but almost wiped on the Gantulyst? Leave and Re-queue.

 

The thing I love about this game is that every group is different...

Some will berate others for little to no reason, but others will work to teach and explain what's happening too.

The collaborative aspect on display (when it's positive) is how the fight will still have players doing it 6 months and a year from now who are, then, competent.

I don't, personally, see anything wrong with legit gear-checks...But I do take issue with straight MR locks because those are silly as it relates to this.

...Enough things are MR locked now that MR for this fight shouldn't matter. 

That said though...Gear checks for public matchmaking? I'd be all for those as it relates to this fight.

 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

43 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I think of it as another example of people placing more value on Mastery Rank as a litmus for competence than they do on team cohesion and performance.

 

43 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I don't, personally, see anything wrong with legit gear-checks...But I do take issue with straight MR locks because those are silly as it relates to this.

...Enough things are MR locked now that MR for this fight shouldn't matter. 

That said though...Gear checks for public matchmaking? I'd be all for those as it relates to this fight.

That's what most of us already seem to do. As the public group forms, I scan the team composition, usually the auras and primaries, then frames. So I can gauge who to expect to be on damage and support. But that said, there are still different ways that someone who is carrying the "wrong" weapons can contribute if they've got the frames and are on point with their abilities. Likewise we would usually welcome someone with the "wrong" frame, especially a duplicate of one already present, but who can one-shot a synovial point. 

 

Put another way, If I'm chroma, I don't need a high MR volt to be able to do my thing, just a competent one. I care more about the Trinity and Harrow being able to do their thing than their Mastery Rank. 

Claiming that a low MR player can't have the right equipment is pure elitist fantasy, as shown by the link I posted earlier. 

[IIDMOII]

I have a way better idea.

Remove the operator gimmick from all current and future boss fights.

Garbo system anyways.

[OrpheusK]

I sorta agree with OP, but not from the perspective of "an in-game system just to spite low MR leechers".

However some restrictions would make sense just to protect low MR clueless players that don't even have their operator unlocked. Their eidolon experience will either be literally 0% damage done and constantly dead; making a kill is completely out of their hands and it completely sours the experience. Being carried by friends is a different thing completely, but the game letting you into public matchmaking without giving you a hint of what's about to happen just feels sloppy from a game design perspective. 

[lukinu_u]

These bounty are here to give an easy matchmaking to new players, so they shouldn't be locked for new players.
If you don't want low level players, just use recruit channel, play with clanmates or go solo.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

Doubt they'd link any to warm period only to be able to be defeated. It's too short of a time window.

Dunno about that. 

8 tricaps in a night is suggested there, that's 24 Eidolons in a nominal 50 mins, ignoring time to load into the plains. Looks to me like they roughly doubled the window. 

[-Temp0-]

В 07.12.2018 в 23:45, ZeroZX4 сказал:

But when you think about it that is a no go. Warframe is designed this way not for players to leech but for players to test stuff by them self and figure out on their own how it works.

Yeah well guess what.

You dont need 3 more bodies with you to do that.

However random Eidolon is a pointless waste of time. Or even non random. Still a waste of time so who cares anyway.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

58 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

Yea but that's with a highly optimized group and builds. And they said the orbs will require more non fighting interactions to take them down so you can't just burst them down.

Oh I'm sure I'm not saying that it'll just be spray and pray and maybe it'll be the other side of things and we have to complete between warm periods, but I'm pretty sure that as soon as people work out the metas it'll be a case of:

1. Down to the road block, we've just begun

2. The guards are through

3. Eudico's men are on a spree

4. Eudico and Chroma go through the door

5. Legs stays out in the drive

6. Eudico gives the rope a fix

7. Chroma throws the hook to heaven

8. Volt has got a date

9. The other guys go up the line

10. The Vent kids are in the pen

11. Limbo guards points five and seven

12. Chroma and Eudico go down to delve

13. Loki goes up without being seen

14. Zero-hour: Volt cuts the cable; Loki cuts the phone

15. Loki goes in where the others have been

16. We all come out like it's Halloween

 

And where's Little Duck ? Little Duck is down by the crossroads with a Moa. She'd better not be asleep or we'll all be in trouble, huh? 

Edited December 10, 2018 by (PS4)guzmantt1977
Little Duck fit the original lines better. :)

[Chaemyerelis]

The eidolon scenario is a mess and needs a redesign before any entry rules are placed imo.

Not that they shouldn't be placed but other aspects of these hunts needs to be altered before its considered.  

[MPonder]

The worst problem with the matchmaking is that there can exist 4 chroma newbies on Trio quest. Tera matchmaking would give you a balanced team comp with tank, support and dpsers.

Actually, is there any matchmaking btw now that I'm thinking about. Something that doesn't even try to form a party, 2 people and go in you are.

Edited January 7, 2019 by MPonder

[Toppien]

En 7/12/2018 a las 10:55, Artek94 dijo:

But how does one is going to build a new amp without farming standing from eidolons?

The small ghosts? are they even good enough for that?

hey, i started farming bomalysts to get my first decent amp!

is not that bad, and you get to learn a little about how the eidolon behaves

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

On 2018-12-09 at 10:46 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Put another way, If I'm chroma, I don't need a high MR volt to be able to do my thing, just a competent one. I care more about the Trinity and Harrow being able to do their thing than their Mastery Rank. 

Claiming that a low MR player can't have the right equipment is pure elitist fantasy, as shown by the link I posted earlier. 

THE problem is what was faced in WoW for world bosses: because a player CAN have access they WILL try to get in for the loot and add zero contribution -- wasting a slot.

There has to be some limit. Just like certain content can't be done unless you complete some quest lines, which requires using abilities and thinking required to do the higher content.

The sortie the other day with the Ambulas was a perfect example of THE problem. The mission even tells you the conditions for the run, so you can gear appropriately -- not get into a public group and someone says, "My weapon doesn't work on it!", then they die a couple of times and bail.

There's team building ways to get lowbies interested, and then there's content that made for people used to raiding and the requirements it needs to do the content. That type of content requires higher level gear and ability knowledge to succeed. A lower level player will not have the energy required; will not have unlocked the trees for survival; they wouldn't have completed the rep to gain access to the tools to down the boss (and someone will reply: BUT I DID! Like the whole game is like them!).

That's dead weight and wasting players time. High level content people have to be able to DO the content. They may not be able to do it FAST enough, but not be a liability.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

35 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

THE problem is what was faced in WoW for world bosses: because a player CAN have access they WILL try to get in for the loot and add zero contribution -- wasting a slot.

There has to be some limit. Just like certain content can't be done unless you complete some quest lines, which requires using abilities and thinking required to do the higher content.

The sortie the other day with the Ambulas was a perfect example of THE problem. The mission even tells you the conditions for the run, so you can gear appropriately -- not get into a public group and someone says, "My weapon doesn't work on it!", then they die a couple of times and bail.

There's team building ways to get lowbies interested, and then there's content that made for people used to raiding and the requirements it needs to do the content. That type of content requires higher level gear and ability knowledge to succeed. A lower level player will not have the energy required; will not have unlocked the trees for survival; they wouldn't have completed the rep to gain access to the tools to down the boss (and someone will reply: BUT I DID! Like the whole game is like them!).

That's dead weight and wasting players time. High level content people have to be able to DO the content. They may not be able to do it FAST enough, but not be a liability.

No. Again that's not necessarily true at all, because I have done dozens of Terry runs with mid to higher MR players who hadn't the first clue as to what they were doing. To the point where one (with single digit captures), asked me if it was my first time, because he couldn't grasp why I went ahead and popped the first joint before the first lure had been charged. 

I have also seen lower MR players doing everything right. 

 

Regarding the gear that you need to do the Eidolons, please tell me what mastery rank a person needs to be at to have access to the gear needed to fight them. 

Let's say you wanted to do Volt Prime, with a 4-5 forma snipetron vandal, what MR would you need to have? Or what about a Chroma prime with a vulkar wraith? What godly mastery rank would you actually need to have? 

Let's hear it. Go ahead and prove your stance with actual information on Mastery Rank locked gear. 👍

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Let's hear it. Go ahead and prove your stance with actual information on Mastery Rank locked gear. 👍

How do you unlock the school trees, again?

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

On 2018-12-08 at 12:14 AM, deothor said:

Hey guys. I have a totally wild idea.

How about we'd disable tridolons (and hard-mode spider) bounties from obvious no-amp, MR1-10 leechers who don't even know what they are doing?

Keep First Eidolon for everyone. Keep option to make a full tridolon hunt in any instance as long, as you put shards in the altar, but remove tridolon bounty from view untill you meet certain requirements.

If you want to carry your friend through whole tridolon, you will still be able to. But they, alone, won't be able to just go in to leech on other randoms.

 

Edit: Your Quill tier could also have some kind of influence whether you see the tridolon bounty or not. Just to make super extra sure you can't just skip it for tridolons.

 

Edit2: There seems to be a commotion about "why dare I want Tridolons being locked behind MR". For one reason, really. Higher MR means you had played the game longer. You have more weapons, more frames, more essential mods. In short by having, lets say, 10MR softlock, I know that whoever joins Tridolon hunt understands what elemental mods do, has those mods, has a weapon and can contribute in bringing tridolons down. Having just your first crafted AMP will sure help in some way, but there's still 4 limbs to be destroyed. Maybe I'm expecting bit too much, but I hope MR10 should have the gear to handle it. Especially if they did Teralyst few times already and they know what weapons should they bring. 

If tridolons (or even Eidolon) were meant to be taken with MK weapons and mote-AMP, they wouldn't be having so much health and armor thet requires expensive sniper rivens. Sorry, but tridolons are the so-called endgame content for players who have the gear to face them, not MR 5.

 

I don’t want to agree with you, but you also can’t kick people from your group.

Its remarkable that you guys are calling out Umbra Genji’s, because that’s what I’m struggling with too.

I almost exclusively use my clan to find teams now, because typing “Tridolon” into recruiting chat is the fastest you to get swarmed by Genji’s with boltors 😐

I’ve had to carry a lot of hot garbage through Eidolon fights, that clearly have no idea what they are doing.

 

If you don’t know what a FUGGIN lure is, why the FUG are you messaging inv to “Hosting Tridolon”?

 

AND WHY THE FUG can’t I kick these people from my squad?

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

On 2018-12-11 at 12:32 AM, IIDMOII said:

I have a way better idea.

Remove the operator gimmick from all current and future boss fights.

Garbo system anyways.

That “gimmick” is a lot of free power at your disposal. Added utility, mobility and damage.

You don’t want to use it, cool.

But I think it’s likely DE are going to use operators in future content, because they would’ve been extremely hard to make and were a great success.

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

10 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

How do you unlock the school trees, again?

By finishing a quest, fully leveling a frame, getting a lens, putting that lens in your frame, going to Hydron/SO/ESO, waiting for the focus buff, killing things for 42 seconds and only get 0.8% of the affinity for everything you killed.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

10 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

How do you unlock the school trees, again?

Mastery Rank 5 (oooooh godly!!!) will get you everything if that's what floats your boat. Come on, Chroma P and Vulkar Wraith would have at least given you a whole 2 ranks more to play with. Would have been better if you took the time to look it up. 

 

Oh and best part, unlocking those waybounds? You NEED to hunt Eidolons. so that says something. 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Mastery Rank 5 (oooooh godly!!!) will get you everything if that's what floats your boat. Come on, Chroma P and Vulkar Wraith would have at least given you a whole 2 ranks more to play with. Would have been better if you took the time to look it up. 

 

Oh and best part, unlocking those waybounds? You NEED to hunt Eidolons. so that says something. 

You're sooooooo focused on MR, and even IGNORING the OTHER aspects that makes that fight even possible!

So, you're saying a NEW PLAYER will get all that DONE by MR6, too? Then probably also claim it's "easy" or "I DID IT", too???

Yeah, we're just ROBOTS, right, and just soooooo PERFECT like bots, huh???

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

You're sooooooo focused on MR, and even IGNORING the OTHER aspects that makes that fight even possible!

So, you're saying a NEW PLAYER will get all that DONE by MR6, too? Then probably also claim it's "easy" or "I DID IT", too???

Yeah, we're just ROBOTS, right, and just soooooo PERFECT like bots, huh???

Not at all, let me quote the questions I asked you:

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Regarding the gear that you need to do the Eidolons, please tell me what mastery rank a person needs to be at to have access to the gear needed to fight them. 

Let's say you wanted to do Volt Prime, with a 4-5 forma snipetron vandal, what MR would you need to have? Or what about a Chroma prime with a vulkar wraith? What godly mastery rank would you actually need to have? 

Chroma, Volt, Rhino, Trinity, Harrow, Limbo. The multiple forma sniper rifles. The Focus schools and void powers. 

Figure out what a person actually needs to get into the meta. The bar for entry is a lot lower than some people seem to think. 

You don't need to build up a high mastery rank to level up your focus, in fact gaining focus is generally exclusive to gaining mastery, as focus only gets built up on fully levelled gear, while mastery on unlevelled gear. What about adding multiple formas? Oh wait that also is exclusive to mastery gain. 

Take the time to familiarise yourself with the bars to entry we have. You may find that you are surprised. 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You don't need to build up a high mastery rank to level up your focus

You need to have A mastery rank to OPEN them.

Notice the condition?

Notice also the grind in getting the schools of choice unlocked, too?

Without those schools and particular branches unlocked, what happens?

They're not ... prepared.

That makes players upset, because the content requires SOME conditions to be met.

Now you may have the patience of a saint in public groups to teach players. Perfect. But that's not the norm in a game where people RACE TO THE END (heck they don't even stop to revive).

Public groups have higher requirements because people don't know IF or HOW they will perform. They don't know if someone playing is even human!

Ever seen a bot in a raid that just runs into walls?

Yeah, need conditions to weed out that stuff, ya know?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

28 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

You need to have A mastery rank to OPEN them.

Notice the condition?

5.

Single digit. Most folks can count that high on a single hand. 

28 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Notice also the grind in getting the schools of choice unlocked, too?

And spending time unlocking them means that you will not be gaining MR for the gear you are using. 

28 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Without those schools and particular branches unlocked, what happens?

They're not ... prepared.

And just how do you propose that they unlock the waybounds if they aren't already hunting Eidolons? 

28 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

That makes players upset, because the content requires SOME conditions to be met.

Ah yes, like the condition of having MR 5, and gear that they can make and use at MR 5 or thereabouts? 

And again, I'm telling you that I've had experience with people with 3 and 4 times that rank who didn't meet basic standards of ability to do a fast capture. So no, there is no good way to limit access based on "conditions that must be met". 

[spirit_of_76]

On 2018-12-07 at 10:28 AM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Can you capture it solo? If so then the newbs shouldn't be a major issue.

you would be surprised. I have attempted terry caps with randos on accident (i forgot to set the match to private when I went fishing) that did not know to duck out of the magnetic AOE and did not try to stand on my carpet (I brought an Oberon).  

Edited January 8, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ah yes, like the condition of having MR 5, and gear that they can make and use at MR 5 or thereabouts? 

And again, I'm telling you that I've had experience with people with 3 and 4 times that rank who didn't meet basic standards of ability to do a fast capture. So no, there is no good way to limit access based on "conditions that must be met". 

You got your answer. Higher content has higher conditions. There's other things BUT MR that's needed to be done, too.

In public groups those conditions WILL be higher, too. Because people want to clear that content among peers.

Do you enjoy doing higher content with people who hasn't or refuse to do the work necessary to be a non-liability? MOST people won't enjoy that, they want to play with at level players for higher content.

I wish DE would have those tiers, so people at ALL tiers won't become frustrated and learn awful habits (like not being team plyers in a MMO/multiplayer game). Where rewarding behaviors to BE team players is higher, than just race or bot their way to "end-game".