Anything with good rewards will be played.

[Cephalycion]

This is not a hint or suggestion, I'm just proving a point.

Imagine if tomorrow a new gamemode was released that was so bad, nobody played it. Dead on arrival. Gameplay was unreasonably annoying, consisting of running around trying to dodge deadly bullets and shooting at erratically moving, high speed targets for 30 minutes straight. Normal warframe mods were disabled as well, and abilities were crippled beyond recognition. Hit a target and raise your score. Miss a target and your score gets deducted. No good rewards to justify it either.

Then the next day, DE decided to put an exclusive prime weapon, power creep rivalling the likes of the tiberon prime, into the drop table. But it was ONLY obtainable from that bad gamemode, and ONLY obtainable with a very high score.

Immediately we would be flooded with feedback saying "delete this bad gamemode, stop forcing us to play it", and a disaster would ensue. But people will still play it, for the rewards. It won't stop the vets from getting their hands on it. Some people might even start to enjoy it.

To those who haven't gotten it, I have just described the Conclave. Except, the Conclave never got an exclusive prime weapon. It got an event.

My suggestion here is, if you want people to play your game/certain parts of your game, you have to make it enjoyable FIRST to the masses THEN add rewards. Release the gamemode without insane rewards and see the reception. If it's not good, it's time to improve it.

Post was sponsored by Zenurik Energy Drink and Stalker mode.

P.S. I enjoy Conclave.

P.S. Please don't kill me.

[KirukaChan]

I enjoy Conclave as-is (particularly the team-based game modes; I suck at free for all), because I actually feel as though my Frame, weapon, and mod choices are more about picking what I like, or what I'm good at using, rather than what the mission requires. Hell, I wish the mods in PvE were more like the Conclave ones, and things like straight EHP and damage upgrades were just baked into the Frame/weapon based on its rank.

My only problem with Conclave, and the main reason I haven't played in a while, is the terrible lag caused by terrible peer-to-peer connections. My own internet connection isn't the best, either.

Edited December 11, 2018 by KirukaChan

[SenorClipClop]

17 minutes ago, Cephalycion said:

if you want people to play your game/certain parts of your game, you have to make it enjoyable FIRST to the masses THEN add rewards. Release the gamemode without insane rewards and see the reception. If it's not good, it's time to improve it.

I'm not sure improving Conclave is a priority for DE right now. Nor has it been for a long time. I don't think DE are sitting scratching their heads about why the PVP element of their co-op PvE game is so unpopular.

[trndr]

15 minutes ago, Cephalycion said:

To those who haven't gotten it, I have just described the Conclave. Except, the Conclave never got an exclusive prime weapon

But conclave has exclusive skins, skins that I would walk on glass to get, but conclave I won't do.

PvP in a f2p enviroment is dead on arival.

[Aramil999]

1 hour ago, trndr said:

But conclave has exclusive skins, skins that I would walk on glass to get, but conclave I won't do.

PvP in a f2p enviroment is dead on arival.

How PvP in f2p game is dead? Like League of Legends is free and is only PvP game... whats the problem man? Even more this f2p, only PvP game is most money making game in the gaming industry at the monemt played by milions daily, on Steam Warframe is played by about 40 to 50 000 players at any given time. Not milions.

Conclave has way too high skill floor and is disconected from the rest of the game. There is no problem in it being f2p.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Aramil999

[(PSN)teacup775]

1 hour ago, Cephalycion said:

P.S. Please don't kill me.

Isn't that the point of Conclave? *rim shot*

[Cephalycion]

4 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

I'm not sure improving Conclave is a priority for DE right now. Nor has it been for a long time. I don't think DE are sitting scratching their heads about why the PVP element of their co-op PvE game is so unpopular.

If your argument is that PvP does not belong in a co-op PvE game, then you might have to consider Destiny and Halo.

If your argument is that Warframe players do not play Destiny or Halo therefore they play Warframe for the PvE experience only, I am a Destiny player and enjoy PvP in PvE games.

If your argument is that PvP is not refined enough in its current state, then yes.

[peterc3]

7 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

This is not a hint or suggestion, I'm just proving a point.

Proving what point, exactly?

Repeating the same stuff other people have said with not a single suggestion to do it yourself? 

7 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

If it's not good, it's time to improve it.

Really fantastic feedback. Abundance of actionable points and clear and concise writing. How DE could not magically fix Conclave with all of your suggestions is really a mystery.

[DiabolusUrsus]

8 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

My suggestion here is, if you want people to play your game/certain parts of your game, you have to make it enjoyable FIRST to the masses THEN add rewards. Release the gamemode without insane rewards and see the reception. If it's not good, it's time to improve it.

I'm fine with the prospect of improving Conclave, but I really think DE needs to invest more effort in polishing their PVE content first.

Warframe is currently coasting on a stream of unsustainable content, mostly because every new thing is promptly abandoned with little to no improvements or efforts to integrate it into the rest of the game.

For example: Archwing and Dark Sectors.

In other words, I think it would be better for DE to focus on their mainstream players between updates rather than attempting to grow a mode that has never been particularly popular.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but I wouldn't start with Conclave.

37 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Really fantastic feedback. Abundance of actionable points and clear and concise writing. How DE could not magically fix Conclave with all of your suggestions is really a mystery.

Oh, please.

You can talk when your feedback M.O. amounts to more than sanctimonious quips about other people's ideas derived from your psychic knowledge of DE's priorities and available resources.

Even if OP had an action plan down to the finest details you'd still dismiss it out of hand because y- I mean, DE would never consider it.

[peterc3]

Just now, DiabolusUrsus said:

your psychic knowledge of DE's priorities

Basic inductive reasoning based on public knowledge and things already in the game. Sorry I want the game I like to play to not turn into something different.

2 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Even if OP had an action plan down to the finest details you'd still dismiss it out of hand because y- I mean, DE would never consider it.

If OP had a plan and didn't use this same vague wording in other threads, I wouldn't have said anything. The OP amounts to literally no real feedback.

4 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

promptly abandoned with little to no improvements or efforts to integrate it into the rest of the game.

You mean like Archwing in Railjack? Archwing guns in regular play? Is it that hard to think taking an idea and integrating it into everything else done over the past 5 years might take time and several iterations?

[DiabolusUrsus]

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Basic inductive reasoning based on public knowledge and things already in the game.

i.e., based on evidence that is in no way adequate to establish what you say as fact, and heavily dependent on your personal interpretation of it.

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Sorry I want the game I like to play to not turn into something different.

Notice I made no comment whatsoever on the merit of your priorities, only the quality of your feedback presentation. 🙂

How would improving Conclave make Warframe "something different" from what it is now?

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

If OP had a plan and didn't use this same vague wording in other threads, I wouldn't have said anything.

That's a lie and you know it.

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The OP amounts to literally no real feedback.

Actually, the OP amounts to "use gameplay to grab player interest, not rewards."

That's actually pretty solid advice, and it is broadly applicable to the game as a whole considering how heavily it's hit by "content droughts."

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

You mean like Archwing in Railjack?

No, I mean in terms of polishing Archwing into something players enjoy using and which amounts to something more than "go fast when needed."

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Archwing guns in regular play?

Sounds like recycling old content to me, though I suppose it will come down to whether or not those weapons fill any specific roles which aren't completely interchangeable with existing weapons.

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Is it that hard to think taking an idea and integrating it into everything else done over the past 5 years might take time and several iterations?

No, but there was a lot less work to be done back when Archwing first released. They've barely touched it in the interim, mostly because they needed to move on to the next hype generator once people actually got their hands on it and started noticing how flat it was.

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Really fantastic feedback. Abundance of actionable points and clear and concise writing. How DE could not magically fix Conclave with all of your suggestions is really a mystery.

Considering the amount of time you seem to typically spend being snarky, arrogant, and belittling to others in your posts, you could be offering useful suggestions and actually contributing to the discussion at hand.

No, attacking others because you don't like their posts is not contributing.

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I really think DE needs to invest more effort in polishing their PVE content first.

Agreed. First and foremost, Warframe is a Co-op / PvE shooter and is marketed as such. The vast majority of gamers that pick up Warframe do so for the co-op aspect. PvP / conclave is just something the devs threw in there to give players a little variety if they want it and ultimately it's a niche feature.

I'm not saying that conclave should't be worked on or improved to make it more appealing and accessible, but I strongly feel that it should low on the priority list.

[Vox_Preliator]

"Just make it good" isn't actually at all useful feedback, though.  I question what one would expect the response to actually be.

"Wow, why did we never think of that?"

I'd agree with the part about not holding good rewards "hostage" behind certain missions, except that in just about any discussion about new missions types a sizable portion of responses are always something along the lines of refusing to ever touch it if the rewards don't immediately invalidate all previous sources, and that sort of thing already exists all over the place in the form of Cryotic, various Warframe parts, minigames like fishing and mining...

Edited December 11, 2018 by Vox_Preliator

[NeopetsMaster4432]

That's a completely reasonable assessment, IMO. But given the rewards and content behind stuff like Archwings, Defection, and to a lesser extent Extraction, I don't think DE feels the same way. 😛

I for one, would put up with the 20 minute waiting times just to get into Conclave matches if there were some useful mods in it for me. 🧜‍♀️
And then I think, most of the time I'm doing anything in Warframe, it's to efficiently grind out resources, mods, or experience. I do survivals once in a while solely for fun too, but that's only a fraction of my playtime. 🧚‍♀️

[LuckyCharm]

You mean like how harrow and nidus are locked behind infested sabotage,  and defection? Two modes that I hate and refuse to touch after having tried to farm those 2 parts for hours with no luck?  (i bought them in the end) 

Theres always people in recruiting looling for those farms cus the modes themselves are dead nodes unless you have a specific party to go there.. People get what they need and stop doing them.  If you really want people to stick with it youd give them a vendor with cosmetics or some other thing that has currency only obtained from those missions. Like conclave has,  but that failed for other reasons than rewards since the rewards are actually decent there

[DiabolusUrsus]

10 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

"Just make it good" isn't actually at all useful feedback, though.  I question what one would expect the response to actually be.

"Wow, why did we never think of that?"

I actually agree with this point, but I found it rich coming from someone who has made a veritable career out of not actually giving any useful feedback.

I don't think I've ever seen them participate constructively without first being confronted.

10 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

I'd agree with the part about not holding good rewards "hostage" behind certain missions, except that in just about any discussion about new missions types a sizable portion of responses are always something along the lines of refusing to ever touch it if the rewards don't immediately invalidate all previous sources, and that sort of thing already exists all over the place in the form of Cryotic, various Warframe parts, minigames like fishing and mining...

True, but this is largely a conditioned habit brought about by DE's heavy reliance on rewards to compensate for flat gameplay.

The people who staunchly refuse tend to be a rather melodramatic bunch dealing solely in absolutes, so if they want to miss out I say let them.

Most players will at least give new things a shot.

[ThumpumGood]

I dont play sorties very often. Too many inexperienced people go in and cause it to fail. Lots of great rewards get me to play about once a month. I would say this invalidates your point.

Here's the thing... If the only way to get said item was to play that mode, then you would have a beef. But you can usually buy or trade for those items. So you dont HAVE to play. I played conclave twice in 4 years. It's ridiculous to me how vastly different your equipment is in Conclave vs the rest of the game. I've played other MMOs that have PvP and they at least have some similarities to your PvE load out. But the Conclave isnt really even like Warframe to me. Have conclave bump your Armor, Health and shields to something that would resist the one shot stuff and go from there. (I know... that;s not a legit idea - leave it be and take the example as it was meant and dont side track on this)

So- dont like it... dont play it.