Why Do People Need An Opt Out For Stalker Mode?

[Dromeos-Prime]

2 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

-snip-

Yes, that's probably the case. Conclave is just a viscous cycle of "Vets" (as in the pvp'ers who have chosen to pub stomp conclave newbies, instead of fighting someone their own size). And the hectic movement is also one of the main complaints about conclave as it raises both the skill floor and ceiling higher than any average joe could hope to achieve.

Truth be told when it comes to alternative pvp ideas Corpus vs Grineer is easily the least contested due to it being completely seprated from the warframe's ridiculous skill floor.

Although Rails combat was nice (I definitely played it more than i did conclave) it wasn't completely immume from problems either, as near the tail end of it's life span the nodes were more or less monopolized by 3 alliances all commiting shady proxy wars (with clearly bogus challenging clans), and of course there was also the issue of the taxes on the node going ass far as 100%. This means that if a player played on that node for hours, all that they would get nothing (aside from xp) all resource and mod dropped completely went to the monopolizing alliances.

[Gabbynaru]

15 minutes ago, rand0mname said:

So far, “no opt-out” is mentioned only by other players. None of the posts I found had a direct link to a Devstream, an interview, or Periscope or a twit. I can not watch everything now, nor do I want to. Can anyone provide a link, please?

Spoiler

 

Stalker mode discussion starts at 12:30, the question about opting out is at around 15:00.

[rand0mname]

4 минуты назад, Gabbynaru сказал:

Stalker mode discussion starts at 12:30, the question about opting out is at around 15:00.

Thank you so much! You are my MVP of this topic.

Edit: yeh, my search skills are... embarrassing.

Edited December 6, 2018 by rand0mname

[Falconer777]

4 минуты назад, reptillicus сказал:

Truth be told when it comes to alternative pvp ideas Corpus vs Grineer is easily the least contested due to it being completely seprated from the warframe's ridiculous skill floor.

Yes, besides, playing for other factions is just interesting)

Цитата

Although Rails combat was nice (I definitely played it more than i did conclave) it wasn't completely immume from problems either, as near the tail end of it's life span the nodes were more or less monopolized by 3 alliances all commiting shady proxy wars (with clearly bogus challenging clans), and of course there was also the issue of the taxes on the node going ass far as 100%. This means that if a player played on that node for hours, all that they would get nothing (aside from xp) all resource and mod dropped completely went to the monopolizing alliances.

I read about it. It was certainly not the best organized. 
But these mistakes can be taken into account, and just make a mode with a similar gameplay, without all this rigmarole with alliances and taxes. Several maps and modes as in other FPS.
Or even if we allow clan wars, storming of bases -  then with usual awards, without the possibility of something to monopolize and somehow restrict other players.

[Proffebolter]

At no time PvE users have attacked people who do PvP (some), if not rather, we are giving our negative point of view. It is normal that if you put a PvP content to a PvE content, it is normal for people to complain. It's like being in WoW, you're on a PvE server, quiet where no one can attack you and suddenly they pass you from PvP server and you can think of thousands of things and get angry.

And if by chance you want to get PvP, then there are the arena and the battlefields.

In addition to the field of PvP, is very unbalanced, here in Warframe.

And we have to keep in mind that in all PvP games, there is a concentration of toxic people. An example of League of Legends, it is a MOBA game. And if someone has played, there is a very high toxicity concentration. (If they really attract a lot of people) Would they be prepared to collect many reports and do the necessary research?

No, because from my point of view. They do not have the necessary people to do it, they would have to hire more people, in the area of customer service to receive reports from the players and someone who deals with doing the investigations for the players' reports. 

But that this could also negatively affect the PvE field, due to the issue of toxicity.

I am not against either PvE or PvP. I tell you that the times I have gotten into PvP, it has not attracted me at all. If it was like at least the Counter-Strike, which at least is simple. There are no power-ups, all predetermined with their weapons, and to fulfill a certain objective. That would make me happy and I would get into PvP.

Because we must bear in mind that there are many weapons, and weapons will be used more OP. Leaving aside the other weapons in oblivion, and Warframes one is stronger than others, almost the same as in the previous one.

 

[Sziklamester]

For me the Stalker mode is not a big deal. Just like the normal AI stalker the player controlled stalker also will be limited. What we can do expect is he will be smarter and not stand on a place and waiting for you to shot down him.

Fun to see the cry about it when peoples cry for challenge then they can get challenge by human stalker. Beat him/her, what is the deal? What happens to you if you down? Nothing, others will revive you or if your team is too low then all of you going down. This called teamwork try to beat the stalker.

This is not a conclave or something, this is simplier than that. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Sziklamester
Typos.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 hour ago, Falconer777 said:

As far as I can tell, PvP lovers are subject to biggest attacks on this forum.
I do not know about your discussions with them specifically.
In any case, these modes are separate (and will be separated). No one is going to turn Warframe into Counter Strike)) 
It's only about adding some modes for PvP fans. Nobody will suffer, on the contrary, the money for the DE will be more, the outflow of players will be less, respectively, there will be more resources to improve the game in all modes. 
Everyone will be fine)

So, you never saw previous debates on this, where people who liked the idea of Stalker mode became almost pathologically vicious towards people who didn’t?

 

I was not joking or exaggerating when I made reference to pro-PvP players quite literally saying that anyone who would opt out of invasion mode should be sent to Iraq to be physically shot at. I wish I’d taken a screencap, I’d post it here in this thread so you could see.

[Aldain]

Well this is still going strong and not actually discussing anything on the pro-stalk side still I see, just some people saying "just deal with it" or asserting that PvP players are better money no matter the game or maybe even the rare "It's happening and nobody cares if you have a problem with it" except DE if people complain or stop playing rather than actual reasons.

It's always a shame when you see people just go for the "All players who dislike PvP are just loser babies" or using false equivalence of other popular games which are built solely for PvP instead of making an actual arguement that is based on anything real other than feelings or wanting the mode, while also ignoring the historical facts that no PvP in any game on the planet has stopped trolls from trolling yet somehow magically think that DE can (though I'd say they might have a chance compared to other devs).

Glad to see this topic is still hilarious though.

[BornWithTeeth]

Hey hey, thread’s been pruned. Wonder what posts vanished.

[Aramil999]

3 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

So why are you asking for (forced) PvP in a PvE game? Is it really so hard to wrap your mind around the fact that people just do not want to be anywhere near PvP in this game? We're here for PvE and that's that.

1. I didn't even once said that it should be forced PvP

2. It is false that ppl don't want to be near pvp in warframe, since warframe has no working pvp. Conclave is so hidden and unwelcoming that almost no new player will ever stay there. Warframe needs fun, better pvp.

[Gabbynaru]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

1. I didn't even once said that it should be forced PvP

2. It is false that ppl don't want to be near pvp in warframe, since warframe has no working pvp. Conclave is so hidden and unwelcoming that almost no new player will ever stay there. Warframe needs fun, better pvp.

1. Scott said it, and he has more power than you.
2. Warframe doesn't need PvP, it's just that some people want it cause other games have it. There is no genuine need for it though.

[Aramil999]

11 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

1. Scott said it, and he has more power than you.
2. Warframe doesn't need PvP, it's just that some people want it cause other games have it. There is no genuine need for it though.

1. Yes, but he quoted my comment so he speaks about my opinion not Scotts

2. Who decides that? You? Free market clearly demands more online pvp games than pve ones. Look at most played online muliplayer games. 

There both your points are basicly no better than staying silent...

Edited December 6, 2018 by Aramil999

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

1. Yes, but he quoted my comment so he speaks about my opinion not Scotts

2. Who decides that? You? Free market clearly demands more online pvp games than pve ones. Look at most played online muliplayer games. 

There both your points are basicly no better than staying silent...

So who are you to decide that Warframe needs PvP? Why should other games dictate how this one plays? Why aren't we jumping on Goombas or slaying dragons since other games that do that are popular? Why isn't every game just the exact same game now? Why isn't everything a battle royale game since PUBG and Fortnite make millions?

Seems unfair to say Warframe needs to do this when many other games do things separate from the current "in" theme and still are enjoyed, but I guess you know better right?

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

1. Yes, but he quoted my comment so he speaks about my opinion not Scotts

2. Who decides that? You? Free market clearly demands more online pvp games than pve ones. Look at most played online muliplayer games. 

There both your points are basicly no better than staying silent...

Gonna continue blissfully ignoring the chart showing that the majority of Warframe play activity has nothing to do with PvP, or instead going to No True Scotsman it and insist that the existing PvP options somehow don’t count?

 

For bonus points: the game did have more PvP once, in the form of Dark Sector conflicts. They were so absurdly toxic and harmful to the game that they had to be removed.

[Gabbynaru]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

1. Yes, but he quoted my comment so he speaks about my opinion not Scotts

2. Who decides that? You? Free market clearly denands more online pvp games than pve ones. Look at most played online muliplayer games. 

There both your points are basicly no better than staying silent...

1. You do realize you are in a thread talking about Stalker Mode and Scott's thoughts on it, right? Your post alone does not override the whole conversation and is not held in a void.
2. The majority of players in this thread who have expressed disinterest to PvP and dissatisfaction to the idea of forced PvP. Just cause the "market" demands "it" doesn't mean people want it. The "market" allowed lootboxes to happen, and the "market" let Bethseda get away with their lazy, bug ridden pieces of sh*te. The "market" doesn't know what it wants, it just vomits back whatever the big companies throw their way.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Sziklamester said:

For me the Stalker mode is not a big deal. Just like the normal AI stalker the player controlled stalker also will be limited. What we can do expect is he will be smarter and not stand on a place and waiting for you to shot down him.

Fun to see the cry about it when peoples cry for challenge then they can get challenge by human stalker. Beath him/her, what is the deal? What happens to you if you down? Nothing, others will revive you or if your team is too low then all of you going down. This called teamwork try to beat the stalker.

This is not a conclave or something, this is simplier than that. 

This is what I'm saying. When it comes to asking for a challenge, the forum doesn't know what it wants at all. 

I still fail to see how player stalker still be THAT much different from a.i. stalker besides being a bit more cognisant. It'll actually make the stalker challenging. It's "forced" PvP for like a minute or two, not much different than a "forced" stalker encounter. 

People are just afraid to actually have stalker kick their butts every now and then. 

I don't think DE wants people farming stalker easily, so I don't think you'll be attacked soon after getting a mark. I don't see why the rate of encounters would increase. 

most complaining could've encountered a player stalker and wouldn't have even noticed.

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

2. The majority of players in this thread who have expressed disinterest to PvP and dissatisfaction to the idea of forced PvP. Just cause the "market" demands "it" doesn't mean people want it. The "market" allowed lootboxes to happen, and the "market" let Bethseda get away with their lazy, bug ridden pieces of sh*te. The "market" doesn't know what it wants, it just vomits back whatever the big companies throw their way.

It’s an odd one, once you realise that the argument being made is that the opinions of people who don’t play Warframe should matter more than the opinions of people who do, and that if Warframe changes to become a more PvP focused game, all the people who don’t play Warframe will come running to play it.

 

It’s basically arguing in favour of hopping onto a bandwagon, and, well...Lunaro. Yeah, that worked. Hundreds of thousands of new players swarmed in to have a go at the exciting new sport. I think. Maybe. Did they? Ok, no, no, I’m hearing that they didn’t, and that Lunaro is now a tiny ignored niche.

[Aramil999]

1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

1. You do realize you are in a thread talking about Stalker Mode and Scott's thoughts on it, right? Your post alone does not override the whole conversation and is not held in a void.
2. The majority of players in this thread who have expressed disinterest to PvP and dissatisfaction to the idea of forced PvP. Just cause the "market" demands "it" doesn't mean people want it. The "market" allowed lootboxes to happen, and the "market" let Bethseda get away with their lazy, bug ridden pieces of sh*te. The "market" doesn't know what it wants, it just vomits back whatever the big companies throw their way.

1. But I commented on someone other quouting ME not Scott, otherwise I can't say. Bro read post you are refering to with what I quouted.... wtf

2. Yes market doesn't know what it wants so maybe Warframe playerbase is SIMILAR to global playerbase (of all online multiplayer games) and they actually would enjoy some form of PvP? Because conclave is not viable form of pvp, too high skill floor etc  problems.

Since warframe has almost purely PvE playerbase (99%) adding some PvP players will simply increase player count more than adding more pve to pve rich game.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This is what I'm saying. When it comes to asking for a challenge, the forum doesn't know what it wants at all. 

I still fail to see how player stalker still be THAT much different from a.i. stalker besides being a bit more cognisant. It'll actually make the stalker challenging. It's "forced" PvP for like a minute or two, not much different than a "forced" stalker encounter. 

People are just afraid to actually have stalker kick their butts every now and then. 

I don't think DE wants people farming stalker easily, so I don't think you'll be attacked soon after getting a mark. I don't see why the rate of encounters would increase. 

most complaining could've encountered a player stalker and wouldn't have even noticed.

Oh look, its the "People who are against me are just cowards" move, oh no, we can't go against that, he called us afraid on the internet!

OH LAWDY WHAT WILL I DO?! MY LIFE IS RUINED!

Seriously, if that's the only reason you can think as to why people don't want this then I don't know what to tell you, but you won't win people to your side by insulting them. 

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

Oh look, its the "People who are against me are just cowards" move, oh no, we can't go against that, he called us afraid on the internet!

OH LAWDY WHAT WILL I DO?! MY LIFE IS RUINED!

Seriously, if that's the only reason you can think as to why people don't want this then I don't know what to tell you, but you won't win people to your side by insulting them. 

Also the sophisticated argument of “People who don’t like PvP should just like it, because I want it, so I don’t see the problem.”

[AzureTerra]

On 2018-12-04 at 9:57 PM, Aramil999 said:

 

It is coming

So is the New War but it wont be here any time soon

[Gabbynaru]

2 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

1. But I commented on someone other quouting ME not Scott, otherwise I can't say. Bro read post you are refering to with what I quouted.... wtf

2. Yes market doesn't know what it wants so maybe Warframe playerbase is SIMILAR to global playerbase (of all online multiplayer games) and they actually would enjoy some form of PvP? Because conclave is not viable form of pvp, too high skill floor etc  problems.

Since warframe has almost purely PvE playerbase (99%) adding some PvP players will simply increase player count more than adding more pve to pve rich game.

Are you seriously expecting a linear conversation on an open forum? Whatever you quoted means nothing, I quoted your thoughts and gave you my own thoughts on them. I'm not the person who you quoted, and if the person you quoted replied back, then your post suddenly separated into two distinct conversations that have nothing to do with one another. One of those paths could lead you to unlimited enlightenment or whatever, the other can loop back around and bring back the original points of discussion into focus once again. So I don't know how or why you expect a linear conversation when the only one you could have that conversation with is yourself, as the rest of us don't share a hivemind with you.

As for point number 2, if the playerbase really wanted PvP, then Lunaro would have revived conclave, and the backlash against the PvP alerts wouldn't have happened. Also, playerbase =/= market. The market is cynical and money driven, players have other goals and interests in mind, such as their entertainment.

[Aramil999]

@BornWithTeeth @Aldain 

You just pulled this from nowhere... noone in this thread stated that "if i like pvp you should too" some players just said that they do not mind it as it would be very similar to normal stalker.

Disscussing this is not the point of thread btw. 

In my opinion pvp and pve can work very well with each other. In such PvE rich game like warframe adding some PvP (not forced) can NOT break the game and make players leave. So only things that can happen:

-it gets forggoten like Lunaro

-it adds to the game and brings new players in

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

@BornWithTeeth @Aldain 

You just pulled this from nowhere... noone in this thread stated that "if i like pvp you should too" some players just said that they do not mind it as it would be very similar to normal stalker.

Disscussing this is not the point of thread btw. 

In my opinion pvp and pve can work very well with each other. In such PvE rich game like warframe adding some PvP (not forced) can NOT break the game and make players leave. So only things that can happen:

-it gets forggoten like Lunaro

-it adds to the game and brings new players in

YOU'RE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP THE MARKET DICTATING THE NEED IN THE FIRST BLOODY PLACE!

Seriously are you just reading a completely different forum and then responding on this one or is this intentional to try and defraud us since you can't make an argument that isn't based on an "In my opinion" statement?!

[Hypernaut1]

18 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Oh look, its the "People who are against me are just cowards" move, oh no, we can't go against that, he called us afraid on the internet!

OH LAWDY WHAT WILL I DO?! MY LIFE IS RUINED!

Seriously, if that's the only reason you can think as to why people don't want this then I don't know what to tell you, but you won't win people to your side by insulting them. 

Ok, so other than possibly getting downed by stalker... What's the issue? 

You think DE we'll leave it so that a player stalker can tell the objective? 

I fail to see why a player stalker is so feared. If you're going to respond with wild sarcasm, don't bother. I'm not trying to fight here.

Player stalker shows up get killed/kills you, leaves.... Where's the big problem? How does it differentiate itself from a regular encounter?

Edited December 6, 2018 by Hypernaut1