Desert Wind seems somewhat underpowered at higher levels.

[Aisu9]

make exalted melee scale with melee combo counter ?
and also please, buff desert wind damage

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

On 2018-12-18 at 12:26 PM, DeMonkey said:

 

1. Status stacking and Condition Overload.
2. Modding for Crit utilising the combo multiplier.
3. Finisher attacks.

Desert Wind doesn't seem to viably have access to any of those.

Maybe we can push to let Exalted Weapons finally use Acolyte Mods. It's pretty dumb that they were never able to in the first place. It creates a situation where some Exalted Weapons are actually less effective than just using your basic melee weapons (despite their energy drain requirements). Why? Because Modding has the capability to make-or-break a weapon regardless of how good you try to make the stats in the first place.

Example: Desert Wind has 50% crit chance (80% with True Steel). Most Blood Rush weapons can far exceed that with much lower starting crit. And not every exalted Melee gets 50% crit in the first place. Meanwhile, Desert Wind gets only 10% status too. So what are we supposed to do with this thing?

Maybe what this really says is that it's time for Armor to finally have a Damage Reduction cap instead of exponentially scaling forever.

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

Maybe we can push to let Exalted Weapons finally use Acolyte Mods

Even then it wouldn't help Desert Wind, as it doesn't benefit at all from the combo metre. 

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

8 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Even then it wouldn't help Desert Wind, as it doesn't benefit at all from the combo metre. 

I'm on PS4, so I did not know that. Well...

[R34LM]

It'd be much more beneficial if each combo applied different debuffs instead of different directions of extreme ragdoll.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, R34LM said:

It'd be much more beneficial if each combo applied different debuffs instead of different directions of extreme ragdoll.

Perhaps, but to what end? What reason would I have to put away my weapon and equip Desert Wind if it ultimately doesn't kill very quickly. 

It seems more... proper/viable/realistic to build for debuffing via Lull and Desolate Hands and still have easy access to damaging weapons.

[R34LM]

38 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Perhaps, but to what end? What reason would I have to put away my weapon and equip Desert Wind if it ultimately doesn't kill very quickly.

The debuffs could include shield and armor stripping or damage increase on subsequent strikes. The quicker change would be to up the status.

Edited December 20, 2018 by R34LM

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, R34LM said:

The debuffs could include shield and armor stripping or damage increase on subsequent strikes.

Hmmm, that could be reasonable.

I'd like to see a buff to it's attack speed/mobility if that's the case however, as it's currently not suited to repeated hits even if you forget the ragdolling for a second, unlike dual swords or staves for example.

[Ventae]

Having a crit based weapon makes more sense for a Monk character, striking accurately at critical spots. At first I thought increasing status chance and making it Condition Overload viable was the way to go but now I'm liking the idea of a crit specialist more.

If Blood Rush worked and the ranged shockwaves increased Combo Counter (and Combo Counter worked as normal with the damage increases), we'd have a much more reasonable build path for Desert Winds. Armour would still be a problem at extreme values but far less so than it is now. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind trading the % damage reduction from Restraint for % armour stripped on critical hits with Desert Winds. Maybe do both but reduce the base damage to compensate a little?

[R34LM]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Hmmm, that could be reasonable.

I'd like to see a buff to it's attack speed/mobility if that's the case however, as it's currently not suited to repeated hits even if you forget the ragdolling for a second, unlike dual swords or staves for example.

I would replace the extreme ragdoll with just the debuffs, because I do agree the ragdoll now is very excessive. The forward combo could be the only one with the ability to send them flying.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, R34LM said:

I would replace the extreme ragdoll with just the debuffs, because I do agree the ragdoll now is very excessive. The forward combo could be the only one with the ability to send them flying.

I mean, if you forget about the ragdolling for a second, it's still not really suited to quick repeated hits.

It's attacks are slow, you move slowly whilst attacking and none of the combos have mobility. 

Staves have mobility and can hit a couple of times per attack, dual swords can hit like, 11 times a second. 

As someone just mentioned, the critical aspect of it is rather thematic, and arguably more fitting, which imo makes the slow strikes quite reasonable.

[R34LM]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I mean, if you forget about the ragdolling for a second, it's still not really suited to quick repeated hits.

It's attacks are slow, you move slowly whilst attacking and none of the combos have mobility. 

Staves have mobility and can hit a couple of times per attack, dual swords can hit like, 11 times a second. 

As someone just mentioned, the critical aspect of it is rather thematic, and arguably more fitting, which imo makes the slow strikes quite reasonable.

Oh I see. And yeah I do agree, as a trained monk would know pressure points on the body, especially to incapacitate.

Personally I never had an issue with attack speed. Since it doesn't use combo, that's an extra slot for primed fury, and 50% crit is enough for berserker. That's my build though.

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

17 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

@(XB1)Orcus Imperium

Attack Speed

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Build you asked me to try.

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Same enemies with Wukong.

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I'm off now for the weekend, can't do any further testing.

Also, never really noticed this much before. Did you see just how often the attacks missed enemies right in front of me? Yikes...

so from what ive seen, its much less the attack speed being the problem, as reaching a 1.5 attack speed on any weapon is really fast,  plus combining berserker with that would actually make it proc status effects quite frequently.  the problem is the ragdolling effect that his 4 does, making it harder to actually land consecutive hits, making it very very hard to consistantly proc status effects

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

12 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Agreed. 

I included the Wukong clip given his Unique weapon is generally considered to be... pretty terrible, just to show how much Baruuk's takes the cake.

Plus it allows me to show off the power of my build, which I don't get to do anywhere near enough.

i understand totally on wanting to show off a good build.

 

I get a lot of flak for preferring my hysteria build over an eternal war one. I'm very confused as to why people consider hysteria underwhelming in areas(i mean, when compared to exalted blade? sure...but c'mon.)

[TKDancer]

51 minutes ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

 the problem is the ragdolling effect that his 4 does, making it harder to actually land consecutive hits, making it very very hard to consistantly proc status effects

yes, the ragdolling is awful, but even if they just got staggered/knocked down it would only address half the issue, as 10% base status isnt really enough to deal with armor with that dmg spread and base speed

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

44 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

yes, the ragdolling is awful, but even if they just got staggered/knocked down it would only address half the issue, as 10% base status isnt really enough to deal with armor with that dmg spread and base speed

well, when it comes to CO, its not about the benefits of the status effects, and more about just having them applied.  for the most part, condition overload's ability more than makes up for the lack of status effect benefits

[0_The_F00l]

Just tried out Baruuk , was pleaseantly surprised when the hydron levelling and generic star chart levels went smoothly with no forma.

But it starts tipping at around Lvl 80 , maybe its just intended to be for that bracket , maybe DE didnt think things through , who knows?.

The low status chance and lack of combo multiplier really stops it from being effective at higher levels,  maybe it needs a chromatic blade equivalent augment to be viable.

but then it would be rather OP due to its infinite punchthrough of 20m,

Suggestion:

Maybe limit damage to Line of site (if its wind it should get blocked by walls) and have higher status chance at base , 20% or so should suffice. (might need to reduce CC to 25 or something to compensate)

Allow it to add into and utilize combo counter (only 1 point per wave can be added else you will be running around at 2.5x multiplier in 10 seconds).

Have synergy with his abilities - damage boost everytime you recieve damage while elude is on , enable finishers on sleeping targets , x% chance to disarm targets hit by wave while desolate hands is active.

Exalted weapons dont use acolyte mods , and i dont think they should just to make one weapon viable (which it will not even be unless combo can be utilised).

So kinda have to agree with OP that some changes are needed for it to be more effective at higher levels.

[DeMonkey]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

well, when it comes to CO, its not about the benefits of the status effects, and more about just having them applied.  for the most part, condition overload's ability more than makes up for the lack of status effect benefits

Unless you're getting a ton of effects, you need some way of dealing with the armour.

I don't see Desert Wind getting much more than 2 or 3 reliably.

5 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

So kinda have to agree with OP that some changes are needed for it to be more effective at higher levels.

It'll be interesting to see what DE choose, and whether it sets a precedent for future changes to other frames.

[Benour]

DeMonkey is right there is no way to strip armor or enough base damage. Only saving grace for baruuk 4 is sleep enemies with his 2 first, wait few second and then do finishers on them. Or you can run naramon + drifting contact and try to build up his combo counter + gladiator set. You can do red crit finishers but its so much damn work to keep his combo counter alive... 

Edit: After some testing and playing around i found how to play Baruuk actually. He is really dope but you have to rely on finishers. He can "onehit kill" pretty much anything with finishers. With gladiator set you can do 1m+ finishers (depends on melee combo). Oh and you also get 15 hits in one finisher to build your combo very fast. So you end up clearing pleb mobs with normal attacks and for the big guys you have sleep + finisher. Also the crit chance bonus from gladiator set apply just to your fists, NOT waves.

Edited December 25, 2018 by Benour

[TKDancer]

5 hours ago, Benour said:

Edit: After some testing and playing around i found how to play Baruuk actually. He is really dope but you have to rely on finishers. He can "onehit kill" pretty much anything with finishers.

everyone can one hit kill anything with finishers: covert lethality(or just any decent weapon unless you're facing like level 150+ bombards)

just bring a frame that can open enemies to them and boom

[Sasuda]

I propose focusing on the other pieces of his kit and his restraint meter as the solutions to his 4th problem personally.

Although it may seem counter-intuitive when his 4th is the weakest part, it's his theming and special mechanic not being particularly influential in the grand scheme of things, IMO.
That being said combo meter should affect his "exalted" 4th's attacks.

Why bother with the Restraint meter if it's really just an alternative energy for a pretty standard "exalted" melee?
When I think of the theme and what it should mean for Baruuk, his unrestrained form should have an almost Equinox Day/Night lite^TM effect. Flipping from a 'stand there and take it' / 'peaceful (as peaceful as murder gets) take-downs' to a 'Rage mode unleashed'. Why would Unrestrained Baruuk still lull enemies to sleep? While Unrestrained it should indeed feel somewhat similar to Valkyr, being ultra aggressive high damage. The uniqueness being how he flip-flops in and out of these modes. Unrestrained mode probably shouldn't be so easy to keep on all of the time, and his 4th should be usable outside of it. But when he enters Unrestrained mode his 4th should wreak havoc and unleash all Hek.

So then I think his kit should have some altered unrestrained features (these are gonna be rough but whatever)
1 Elude Unrestrained -> Becomes Counter when struck he avoids 90% of dmg and returns it for (Combo Multiplier)*dmg or have it return damage nullifying defenses (armor shield etc.)

2. Lull Unrestrained -> Awakened Baruuk's full damage capacities awaken and he passes though defenses with 30% of damage being true damage

3. Desolate Hands Unrestrained -> Desolate Future where enemies struck by daggers are temporarily paralyzed (to make up for Lull Unrestrained's CC dropoff a bit) and receive 80% more damage (before mods) from attacks. Daggers also deal 1000? 2500? damage maybe? Why not? meh? eh?

These would drain rather than fill restraint as well. But Restraint would be altered to having a threshold that could be stacked on further with a number/timer value that could could continue to stack by using his restrained abilities.

These are just placeholder ideas I haven't figured out the math or anything but just to kind of get you understanding what I feel Baruuk's kit should feel like.
It may ought to involve different mechanics entirely, potentially being more direct to damage and having other uses with energy vs restraint economy.